Serious Dad Joke game from spirit.

came here to say this

Also the part where he says muddies the water😀 serious dad joke material

Also "The real fish trap wood be delaying additional TCs to build fish traps."

glad this was the top comment

Lan games ❤️

I've used Cannon Galleons (and fire ships, occasionally) to defend on BF, especially when that pond appears near a chokepoint. It's not part of normal conventions for BF, which I'd argue, makes it stronger. Using this for a bit of fishing shore fish (ship or vil) and then a later transition to a few ships on traps + (as applicable based upon pond map location) some galleons can be absolutely brutal to your opponent

Haha I've been that person as a Spaniard on Yucatan. I always enjoyed that. Worked for offensives too.

My friend and I used to play classic AoE2 capped at Castle age. So, no trebs, no bombard cannons, no easy way to take out castles. A single game would spread over several weekends :D

That was also one of my favorite BF map tactics, on occasions that I had a conveniently placed lake in a BF map. Elite Cannon Galleons devastate enemy siege equipment or offensive building attempts. As I only ever play single player games, the AI is baffled by the technique, and has no answer for it.

as someone who throws random buildings everywhere because I won't expend brainpower on an organization scheme, this is why I always dock on BF

Its a good point and its also more easy to Wall in or make castles to Shield those docks.

And for Malay, docks can become a defensive structure too as harbors

Dont play bf much. But i dock whenever i see water. Just saves space and less vulnerable to raids

He totally forgot burgundians cheap guillnets one age earlier..

Exactly! All units should become stronger from a more varied diet.

And it gives all your units a 10% hp and 1 damage bonus from a healthy diet, consider it a good landlord bonus

Just spoke with one of my own. Aside from being shocked to learn that two villagers loving each other very much and spending 50 F gave birth to him, he also told me that he does in fact like to grill shore fish every day and wishes that the town governor would give him a fishing job already.

Huh, I wasn't expecting to see you here. SotS/Potato collab when?

love to see that

I'd say they are sometimes worth it even over *Crop Rotation* farmers as a supplement thanks to Gillnets. The added population efficiency definitely adds up.

How do Teutons profit from fishing? They don't have a bonus. What do I miss?

@@ComfyDents Less wood for farms more wood for boats

@@joaovides6415 Sure. But aren't farms in that case the better choice to get more use of the bonus?

@@ComfyDents fishing is fastest source for food

ComfyDents deep sea fish are faster than farms. Unfortunately bf doesn’t have any deep sea fish so that doesn’t apply. I don’t remember for sure if shore fish collected from ships are slightly faster or equal to farms. Shore fish with fisherman is much faster though. It’s one of the fastest collection rates close to hunting collection rate. So even if you disregard the ship rates... the fisherman is a nice bonus there you can’t overlook. The benefit with teutons early is you can still make 3-4 dark age farms and dock 4-5 ships easily with a fast castle because you’re basically getting half cost farms. That puts yoi at a huge surplus food wise That way you can get double bit axe right when you hit feudal as you drop a a market and blacksmith. Teutons usually have 900-1000 food with a dock when they get to feudal. Then on the way to castle you can put a lot of villagers on wood. Maybe take some from berries. Now when you get to castle you have a ton of food to fuel your TCs and get eco upgrades. You don’t need to buy food to keep TC’s going. Then because you have more villagers because of constantly producing from previous food surplus you can make more farms because they are cheaper and more villagers have been collecting wood popping out of TCs. You see how one thing leads to another and teuton eco snowballs. Very easy to eventually add a 4th TC too even with dock. As a side note... if I’m going for a dock on bf I don’t make a mill for berries. That villager that would be in berries is instead sent to make a dock. That slower time of starting to collect food is made up for by the fact that fishermen collect much faster than berries and ships will snowball in usefulness as it expands your population Plus I use that time to push deers anyways... so in reality I’m trading a mill for a dock early game and getting just as much or more food by the use of fishermen coupled with all the hunt. I will take berries later once I have TCs up and running I usually have 5 vills on wood at the rate that most have 4 for a normal fc build. That keeps you on track to constantly produce ships until about 4-5

Just one thing that is important to mention, the tierlist of civs depends on your playstyle. For example Liereyy can rate ethiopians differently from Daut since one player is more archer based and the other is more cavalry/eco based.

Great idea!

He hasnt even reviewed the DLC civs. Those should go first.

And I love it! 111

"A puddle navy" lmao

Spending a resource you don't need sounds like an invalid argument to me. This can also be solved by not collecting that "wrong" resource in the first place and gather the ones you need more... The argument of being able to produce more "villager equivalent units" does hold and is the whole point of this video. The puddle navy argument has some merit ... at the cost of population space that can't be used for attacking. No idea how much that matters

@@imusthegreat Would fishing for food not give you food and some free up villagers to collect other resources if you wish? You need to collect that "wrong" resource to make farms or docks in the first place. It has to come from somewhere, someone has to collect it. The puddle Navy is just for defense and isn't something that is done everytime you're by a pond. Like it wouldn't make as much sense if it's in the back of your base. I've never personally seen it happen but that makes sense to me

this strategy works the best with Spanish because of their cannon galleons.

@@johnnyslokes2712 I guess that only works if you know you don't need that wood within a few minutes. If you are strapped for wood or food, because you made fishing eco, then it probably wasn't worth it.

Unless your opponent combines the speed of cavalry and the range of archer🙄

Seems like an obvious late game plan to me, so much so that I am surprised it wasn't caught on. Even without the infinite food I would still use the bonus and Forced Levy that way.

As if there was a difference between infinite fishtraps and fishtraps you have to replace ONCE PER HOUR 11 This change was made purely because it was imbalanced on some woodless island games, but does not affect BF at all - there is enough wood there, some would even say too much...

@@Volcano4981 Black Forest is usually played as a team game which means the teams have infinite gold. Two handed swordsmen are very bad vs gold units.

@@Progeusz I was more thinking in the rare circumstances it is played 1v1. And even with trade, you're still limited by route congestion (will be really bad especially if there's still far too many trees standing or buildings get in the way really bad) or pop limits, so goldless 2HS aren't completely useless - you could use them as filler units for siege or other gold-intensive ranged units, or as a buffer while you build up your income/clear the trade route for the really late game. They also demolish Eagles better than anyone.

Ships in a pond are like towers that can dodge, can't be attacked in melee, and don't cost stone. They're more squishy, yes, but also way harder to counter.

I don't know why I'm so amused by the line "punch a dock".

@@Quantumironturtle I admit to building defensive lines in the old conquerors patch which exploited the old ai heavily. Where lines of ships would bombard catapults and trebuchets trying to push past to attack buildings and towers behind a pond in some of my madness 6v2 deathmatch cheats on games where the whole point was to try to outproduce the AI and fight them all off at once. But while amusing I can't say investing in 4 or more warships is a wise choice, as your fishing should be defended, and the AI has be better trained these days. Although it is amusing watching fire ships burning rams trying to break a dock coating less than the rams do. While the rest of my army fights off assaults. It was quite fun.

Make sure to have a Berber ally for 80% faster university work to help solve that conundrum! lol But actually I think that resources now that help you do something important > some idleness later when you at least now have the options to do what you need to do. So, advancing to feudal & castle age faster is more important than whether 4-5 fishing ships are sitting idle in early castle.

@@jefffinkbonner9551 It means less wood/gold/stone because that villager took the food producing job of the ship, so it would need to be something critical to justify damaging your later game for your immediate situation.

With 4+ fish I would say always yes. With 3 fish only, it depends, but I would say no.

i would say yes. Since you're getting more food in faster if you have a few villagers catching the shore fish you can get away with having fewer farmers. That means you both save the wood needed to build those farms and you can have them collect wood instead of farming. Gathering resources faster will allways be more efficient than going for the slow gathering. There is just two things to be carefull about: 1) don't build farms when your food income is high and wood income is low - have the villers chop wood instead 2) don't blow all your wood on like 30 fishing ships or some riddiculous numer like that on a tiny pond - 2 or 3 per fishing spot (not including the fishing spot you're gathering with villagers) should be more than enough. edit: of course later in the game when the starting ships are already using fishtraps you can build more if it is more convinient than building farms

only possible now that the cost to upgrade to elite pun was reduced with a recent patch

lol!

The bug is still there

They might not seem like it at first, but having yasama towers in chokepoints along with kataparuto trebuchets is really powerful! Full arbalest, heavy cav archer, the best halbs in the game, and samurai can potentially dislodge pesky enemy unique units like huskarl or even trade cost effectively against teutonic knight.

the more ships you have the faster they pay off the cost of the dock before paying off their individual cost, their main strength is how they are basically food producing villagers that can be produced without using a town center, so you are getting more workers than someone who isnt building them.

In this analysis, it'd only matter that gillnets is cheaper

Honestly it's one of the best updates ever. So intuitive and eFISHient