Thanks!

DEUTSCHES INSTITUT FÜR NORMUNG

well, i find their components quite expensive, also compared to other great sounding brands.

Naim is hardly affordable , what mansion do you live in ?

😄 🤣 😂 😆

Thanks!

I dont mean to be offtopic but does anybody know of a method to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the login password. I would love any help you can give me.

@Will Hunter Instablaster ;)

@Marshall Mohammad I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm trying it out atm. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

@Marshall Mohammad It worked and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thank you so much you saved my ass!

Definately!

Any feedback on your experience? Thanks.

they had more hum too

You've missed the point, in a naim circuit dins sound better than RCAs because they have a common ground, full stop.

Loose solderings are a sign of lack of soldering skills at the manufacturer, it can happen with RCA, DIN or in a washing machine and has nothing to do with DIN or RCA in the first place.

I asked that... They didn't really answer... ;-)

The worst thing that ever happened to naim was getting into bed with Focal in 2011. The only people that benefitted were the eventual share holders, who've made an awful lot of money over the subsequent years, whilst churning out poorer and poorer products and offering poorer and poorer customer service ...

Yeah, I love Naim, but shaking cables? C'mon man. It doesn't matter if you shake a cable, cryogenically freeze it, bake it at 350 for an hour a foot, or put it on a spaceship and orbit it around the moon, cables don't matter.

@@blendtecbrah5761 As I've mentioned in a reply further down this thread, the shaking of cables came about because we, the people that listened to every naim product and made the final decisions as to what made the best sound (for us) heard the difference it made. It's subjective, a matter of taste, not scientific, and we never pretended otherwise.

​@@marktucker4528 I believe you when you say you heard the difference it made, that it was subjective, a matter of taste, and not scientific. But could you tell a shaken from an unshaken cable in an ABx test, consistently, at an accuracy higher than that of just guessing? Probably not, and I bet you're ok with that ;) In your defense; I get it. Audiophile stuff is fun. I used to subscribe to all of it, and once even lusted after a $32k pair of Transparent cables that I now know/believe perform no better or worse than lamp cord.

@@blendtecbrah5761 My four listening-team colleagues and I could consistently, in completely blind tests, tell you every time which cable sounded best; we might not know at that point which was shaken and which wasn't, that was only known by whomever we had entrusted to 'run' the test, but when we compared each of our results, because we always did such tests individually before doing them together as a group, we could accurately rate the cables in order by correlating which cable (or any other hi-fi component) we had all chosen and in which order. We sometimes had to listen to twenty or more cables in a single test session, to assess the merits of a new cable manufacturer, or a new connector, or a new type of solder, or the direction in which the cable sounded best, etc. These processes could take several weeks, sometime months, of exhaustive and thorough back and forth listening to ensure that we weren’t mistaken, and to make sure that we were all choosing the same sample of whatever it was we were listing to. Honestly, we really did this, for decades. As far as your comment about audiophiles, we never, ever considered ourselves audiophiles. We hated hi-fi for hi-fi’s sake, naim systems were always designed to be a means to an end, a tool for enjoying recorded music, nothing more, not audio jewellery and frippery to feed one-upmanship, and we never subscribed to what we mostly considered to be over-priced, under-performing ‘miracle’ products. To this end, if you knew naim as it was through the seventies, eighties, nineties, and noughties, you might have noticed that we always included what we genuinely considered to be the best interconnect cables, power cables (with selected, hand-fitted 13amp plugs), and source connections with every product, included in the price. We also designed and had manufactured our own speaker cable/s, and our own connectors to be fitted to them, in order to eliminate as many variables as possible when putting together a naim based system. There was never much profit in these items for the company, they were usually included at cost, and I know of no other manufacturer, before or since, that went to the same lengths as we did in this pursuit. What all of this did was eliminate the need for our customers to enter the minefield of painful and often criminally expensive trial and error research into such ‘ancillaries’. A naim system could be built, from source to loudspeakers, with every single link in the chain having been tailored - upon optimum sound quality, not just technical requirements - from start to finish, with no need whatsoever to throw the resulting sound to chance by experimenting with the hundreds and thousands of interconnects, connectors, and speaker cables available world-wide. And I stress, yes, there were those of us at naim who could consistently and reliably hear the differences and choose the same cable, or pre-amp, or cd player, or even humble mains fuses, time after time after time in completely random, blind tests. You don’t have to believe me, that’s your choice, but I know this is true, I lived and breathed it for the best part of four decades. Apologies for the lengthy diatribe. 😅

@@marktucker4528 No need to apologize. I do truly believe that you and your colleagues "heard" a difference. However, the placebo effect is very much a real thing, and I question whether a properly calibrated measurement microphone and RTA would "hear" the same difference. Perhaps that answer will be forever lost to time. My continued skepticism aside, I applaud your team's efforts. There was a time when I might have labored with the same fervor to deliver the so-called Absolute Sound, but these days I call it a day at a system that just sounds really good. A really good sounding system might be a Naim source and amplification, speakers from Dynaudio or Pro-Ac, and whatever cables that looked nice and weren't frightfully expensive. Alternatively, a Naim streamer and some active DSP speakers from Kii or Meridian would do the trick as well.

I haven't tested it yet.

@@TheAlphaAudio Thank you!

It's free... So why is it a marketing tool? Anyone can do it at home.

'PRAT' is not a term ever used by naim, nor a design principle, so no product was designed around it. The acronym was originally coined by certain members of the hi-fi press and some naim users on social media platforms, arbitrarily, and is not something that any of us at naim listened for nor recognised as relevant. It always was, and hopefully still is, meaningless to anyone at naim who was involved in the sound of products.

@@marktucker4528 very interesting to hear that - what design principles or terms does naim listen for or recognize as relevant?

@@rd264 Hi, The main point with my comment was that so many things are said with "authority", about what manufacturers use as their design principles, or as their reference, without ever really knowing what said manufacturer actually does. In reality, all of us at naim who were involved in the design and decision processes as to what was the way we wanted a product to sound, during the key decades of the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, and early 2010s, were listening for the ability to make timing clear, and also the tune. By the tune, I mean whether or not instruments were in tune (sometimes they're not meant to be), and whether or not they were in tune with each other, or the vocalist/s if any were present/featured. It sounds a bit trite and possibly immature now, after almost 50 years of promoting these "references" as a way of judging hi-fi components - or even, more importantly, live performances - but a few basic principles were, and in my case still are, all that we needed to decide if a system or its components were worth building or buying. Arugably, and there will be millions of people who disagree, and whom would prefer to judge hi-fi by measurements, statistics, stereo imaging, etc, etc, ad nauseam, as a manufacturer, or somebody who works for said manufacturer and believes in its principles, you owe it to your company, yourself, and anyone out there who's looking for the same things, to stick to what you believe in, not whatever anyone else tells you is important. I repeat, PRAT is an acronym invented by people who never truly understood what naim was about, even though the same people might have been naim fans and owners. As an almost lifelong musician and singer myself, pace, rhythm, and timing are pretty much the same things, when you think about it? And manufacturers cannot "dial these things up", they can only reveal the way the musicians played when a recording was made.

We could set up a test...

When is this test happening .

It's not lies, it's what we found to be true, as opposed to what you believe to be true. The shaking of cables came about because we, the people that listened to every naim product and made the final decisions as to what made the best sound (for us) heard the difference it made. It's subjective, a matter of taste, not scientific, and we never pretended otherwise. As for RCAs and DINS, etc, the din is simply a better connector in a naim circuit because it has a common ground, plus RCAs affect phase relationships - once more, proven to ourselves time and again by listening tests, not effectively meaningless measurements (in terms of sound quality). As for BNCs, we used them too, for the phono input on naim amplifiers, because there was an obvious improvement in sound over DINs and RCAs. The only reason naim eventually changed to using RCA's for most of it's input connections is because the people who bought the company are only interested in commercial gain, not sound quality, and RCAs made it easier to sell naim in a market full of lazy retailers, most of whom couldn't, or wouldn't, solder a din plug on properly. If you don't like naim's story, stance, nor methods of design and manufacture, don't buy any, simple as that. You choose, you lose ... Naim was never intended for people like you, it was for people that loved music and used their ears to tell them what was good to listen to.

@@marktucker4528 But why not rule out bias from sighted tests and make sure you don't spend time and effort where improvements are only in the brain of the (primed) beholder? I would imagine a company priding itself in engineering excellence is able to perform proper experiments to prove or falsify an hypothesis about what might contribute to better sound reproduction. But you must be right, because I'm critical and have a scientific mindset means I must not love music because those two are mutually exclusive... /s

@@Prophet1cus Please read my other responses in this thread re: ruling out visual and/or priming bias. As for measuring every effect we hear, since you have a scientific mindset, you should know that science cannot (yet) explain or measure everything. Surely you're aware of this? There are some measurements that we were able to perform that pointed towards reasons for certain effects being heard, but they were too inconclusive for us to rely on them alone. Think along the lines of materials stress introduced during manufacture that affect microphony, and reflections in connectors, for example. Other reasons and measurements that we believed we could back up with good science we preferred - and still prefer - to keep to ourselves, for reasons of intellectual property rights in a highly competitive market. Why give away all your hard-earned knowledge? You commented originally, aggressively and accusingly, with the singular intention of discrediting the company and a loose explanation being made to interested customers by a non-scientific employee, who was simply describing as best he could why we did certain things a certain way - all without giving away too many trade secrets. Had you been there you could have asked more detailed questions if you'd wished to and the company would have tried, wherever possible, to provide you with more information, within the constraints outlined above. Just because you can't see the point, nor accept what people's ears alone tell them - even in the absence of a scientifically provable explanation - doesn't mean it's not true and isn't genuinely audible. Good science is all based on observation and empirical experiments, followed eventually, hopefully, by a scientific theory to back it up. This process can take years, decades, centuries, ad infinitum, to reach a conclusive, peer reviewable scientific explanation. Good science also changes its position and adjusts its stance when presented with genuine new evidence. My comment about the love of music aimed to point out that we, and hundreds of thousands of happy naim customers world-wide, let the sound we perceive help us decide whether or not something is good or better, without basing our opinions purely on science nor specifications, nor the word of someone else, nor the word of reviewers, critics, other manufacturers, etc. If it sounds good, it IS good. We can/may find out why later on. I can't tell you how many audio engineers and acousticians I've met in over forty-five years in the audio, studio, and music industries, many of them very smart people, but there have been dozens and dozens of them, and when they've presented me with their theories and explanations, backed up by all sorts of graphs, formulae, and 'scientific' explanations, only for me to have a listen to their product and find that it sounded execrable in the vast majority of cases, in my humble opinion, I (and all my colleagues) always concluded that listening should come first. So as we always said, and this includes by some of the finest engineering minds in the business who graced naim with their genius, trust your ears. P.S. Perhaps take a look at this video for a brief explanation on naim's philosophy and methods, not least from one of the cleverest people I've ever known, the delightful and talented Roy George, the company's chief designer and technical director extraordinaire. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l9BloduqyrW3n3k.html

There must be. Check your supplier...

As a Naim employee I can advise you that the products are powder coated not wet painted.

Don't do that yourself lol...

Originally it was to keep the price down - cosmetics that didn't enhance the sound were considered entirely superfluous Times have changed, of course, and the present owners of the company have an entirely different agenda, so products made since the early two thousands have had a great deal more attention paid purely to the cosmetics, inevitably raising the prices by a substantial amount. I preferred the 'middle ground' era of the late eighties and nineties, when the appearance of products was given just enough attention, with no over-the-top design engineering, which added hugely to prices in later decades.

You're missing the point, as so many non-naim employees and non-engineers do ...

So why you buy any other hi end stuff anyway if your Naim sounds so great? ;) (I'm Naim owner too so please mind that :))

"believers" like the ones that believe in flat earth .. Hardly a compliment 😅😅😅

Well: yes, acoustics matter a LOT... totally agree. But the combination of amplifier and speakers are very important as well. That's why active speakers sound so good: they are made for each other. On the other hand; people need a hobby. And this is great stuff to toy around with.

Imagine thinking an amplifier doesn’t matter

What a immensly cool system that must have been at the time!

Linn were helped enormously by substantial government grants over the decades, to build high-tech production, warehousing, and admin facilities, whilst naim - because it is based in the south of England and not in Scotland - received zero help from anyone outside the company. Every penny invested in naim's progression, up until 2011, came entirely from the two founders and their tiny band of employee-shareholders. Despite this, in no small part because the owners weren't too greedy, naim somehow always managed to be at the absolute leading edge of many technologies, and owned the very best in production and testing equipment in the areas where these mattered most.

If electrons flow more efficiently in flexible cables what happens when they travel through rigid, right-angled solder tracks on a circuit board?

​@@spudpud-T67😂😂 cute...gotta love delusional "audiophiles"

Thanks.

If you have found out how to measure all aspects of audio... Please write a paper on it and publish it. I guess it will make you world famous.

@@TheAlphaAudio Audio frequencies are measurable as is the frequency response of the human ear. The onus is on you to measure what you claim to hear or it is not science. Just SnakeOilAudio.

@@AirCrash1 if you think that is all...

Sorry to disappoint you with this free content. This was actually shot months ago - pre corona - as b-roll. Now I thought using it anyway for this... Just as a bonus. Anyway... You don't like it. What can I do... I'm not a trained cameraman.

@@TheAlphaAudio you did well

C’est un gag l’histoire des câbles « secoués » ?! Il y a des gogos pour gober de telles conneries ? Du coup je n’achèterai jamais du Naim

You could add more shots and photos (stills) of equipment he was talking about, not just the guy. He could talk in "off".