Your comment has potential.

Wait that's cheating

@@pottingsoil723 I post my first comments after going through the YT page for my channel. So it's not impossible to beat me. Just really unlikely since I know that the video is public first.

hi

5th!

If it was made better there would be no need to replace it. I have often said to many who don't want to understand this. Why do Paccar corp vehicles most often have inline 6 power plants and your purse hauling, grocery getter most often has a a V type engine or a I four with turbo? I have a Win 2K Pentium 3 on the floor now that someone wants me to fix.

Wish my ex was as forgiving

Basically, BZ says you have good enough overshoots and undershoots at "high" setting. So if a motherboard wanted to correct the load voltage without introducing overshoot/undershoot it should use AVP. The big problem is, it should do that with at most as large latency as VRM does react to CPU voltage request. Does the CPU request voltage directly from VRM or does motherboard relay it?

What did you get your 3800X overclocked to? I have mine overclocked to 4.5 GHhz @ 1.375 volts on all cores.

@@OlettaLiano 4.4ghz @1.256vcore, llc3 or med/high. At the moment limited by my 2070 so down the road 4.5ghz ++ will happen

@@soldierbyname I played with LLC but I get better benchmark numbers with it on Auto.

@@OlettaLiano my experience is the opposite so far. In 3d mark and r20 my scores are bit higher. Im running tuf x570. Mobo might makes a difference.

@@soldierbyname I'm running a 5700XT and both my CPU and GPU are water cooled with an open loop with 2 360mm radiators and 12 120mm fans in push/pull. My case also has 2 140mm fans on the top, and two more on the rear panel.

every core can request it's own vid but the VRM only produces one voltage so which ever VID is highest is the one that gets applied to the whole CPU.

Yes but using your nose to calibrate is gets expensive.

LLC7 is way too much LLC on ASUS boards

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking yep on my Asus z170 ws board lvl 3-5 is pretty Spot on Depending on the powerdraw

HwMonitor is one of the worst one to track. I'd recommend use HwInfo64 instead.

I think the VID value in HWinfo is a request from the processor. This is important when you have a processor with turbo features. When the processor wants to up the clock speed, it requests more voltage until some limit is reached (thermal, Power dissipation, utilization, etc.). When it wants to lower the clock speed and save power it requests less voltage. The Vcore value is a measurement of the voltage in real time, from either the super IO or the VRM itself as described by the video.

@@Fix_It_Again_Tony that's a grear answer! I've found researching about VCORE precisely that: VID is what the processor requests, not what it's actually getting.

jestt600 if you never overclock before, just do some researches and have some fun.

yes setting the LL register to 1mOhm with 100% in the LL trim register gives the same Vdroop as 2mOhm LL with 50% LL trim.

I'd recommend you to check VR VOUT sensors. I usually run Geekbench 64-bit to check if the manual VCORE I've set + LLC is good for the load I'm undertaking. What happened to me was that when the VCORE + LLC got me down to a voltage insuficcient for the OC, it'd either crash with a nasty BSOD or soft lock and then close the test.

well the controller needs to be able to see the transients caused by the CPU. So while the VRM won't tell you the mins and maxs of the voltage during transients it does react to them

The connection inside the CPU is probably just a connection directly to the Vcore voltage. Not very sensitive. You could sense the Vcore voltage right at the VRM output but then you have the impedance (capacitance, inductance, resistance) of the Vcore traces going to the CPU which would cause error in your measurement (look up "four terminal measurement"). You want to sense the voltage directly at the processor, not at the VRM output. The processor doesn't care about the voltage at the VRM output, it only cares about the voltage on the processor. This is what the VRM needs to sense to be able to control Vcore accurately (accurate from the perspective of the processor). The VRM feedback (commonly referred to as Vsense or Vsen) is a high impedance node, that is it doesn't load the signal very much. It means it does not draw much current so if you connect this directly to the Vcore at the processor you don't have the same error in the measurement. However, this presents it's own problem. Because it is high impedance it is susceptible to noise. This is what he is saying at 7:32 when he talks about running the voltage sense signal next to a fan header. Because it is high impedance it also picks up noise easily. You want to pay attention to how you route this signal to keep it away from digital noise. This is a problem with all DC/DC converters using external feedback. Also the scope probe itself is not perfect and loads the signal with it's own impedance. This may affect the gain and phase of the signal back to the VRM. This always reminds me of the "measurement problem" in quantum physics. These two phenomenon aren't caused by the same mechanism, but the effect is similar: the act of simply measuring something can change it's state. It's not uncommon to be troubleshooting electronics and when you hook an oscilloscope to a signal the problem goes away. Disconnect the scope and the problem comes back. The scope is affecting the signal you are measuring. This is usually caused by the scope probe impedance and not external noise. There are special high impedance probes, but they generally cost a couple thousand USD.

Uhhh if you followed the video, don't use 0% LLC trim (maximum LLC) is the way to go. You want some vdroop (watch the previous video), as that gives better transients. So experiment with Medium-High LLC. For the 3950X "manual OC voltage", I would watch an earlier video bz posted on overclocking the 3950X. Ryzen 3000 series has tons of quirks for manual OC.

Depends on Vmin, which you need to solder to the board and use an oscilloscope to get. If you're fine with noise/high temps the highest LLC is fine.

@@kelvinyonger8885 and higher voltage peaks that will slowly degrade your chip, most importantly

The LL settings for intel are public.

I always preferred "DC to daylight". Alliterations FTW

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Okay, I believe you on Intel LLC settings being "public" however after a good amount of searching I've yet to come up with documentation regarding their settings OR the implementation/settings for any other motherboard manufacturers. I believe this is due to them being "encrypted" using "jargon" (AKA, "engineer talk") which precludes my discovery of them without the help of an adult... 😂😂😂😂😂 TLDR; Where do I find (or, if you prefer, how do I effectively search for) the documentation you're referencing that provided the information presented in this video? Where do I find the documentation describing load line calibration implementation/settings for the major motherboard manufacturer's (such as gigabyte, ASUS, etc.) products? Thanks for all you do, your videos are some of the best presentations of personal computing information that I've seen and I appreciate all your hard work! Take care!

I've been trusting the VR VOUT sensor since this: www.overclock.net/forum/27736104-post17.html

watch the previous video for why Load line exists.

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking cant you just simply answer the question ?

@@noe8615 apparently not

yeah we need people like him that time

Only cool peeps have datasheets laying around. I dont :(

@@Williwillwixxen Google "Technical Resources: Intel Core Processors " if you want to download them yourself.

except load line HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POWER PLANE RESISTANCE the controller already compensates for that by measuring at the die and not at the output of the VRM inductors.

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking right, so it's drop over substrate?

People are too lazy to click a like button.

that's the average for all social media algorithms. even on IG the average of likes is around 10% and higher, obviously, if you have a viral post. it's always been like this.

Transient under/overshoot is independent of LLC. It's more to do with VRM response times than electrical resistance.

It seems to me that you haven't understand me because I don't wrote what you have implied. The VRM regulates the voltage to a choosen value and how strong this regulation is depends on the LCC settings. Meaning how much the base line differs between load and no load. So yes this alone has nothing to do with under- or overshoot and I never wrote something differently. So because this is a regulation it takes a little bit time until the new values are reached, because it's not possible to instandly change and go to a specific new output value, the time which is needed for this is called transient response time. It's impossible to jump from 2 V directly to 100 V, the value will raise from 2 until 100 V with all the values in between, but without the right equipment you aren't even able to see it because it happens very fast. The CPU has a different electrical resistance depending on the load, so it's not consistant and I had just refered that this causes the general voltage drop. What I have expressed with the text is that it's only possible to raise the base line on load by applying more voltage to the CPU. So the undershoot comes because the VRM needs time to add more voltage to the system and the overshoot because then there is more voltage applied so it takes time for the VRM to lower the voltage again. Because I agree with the statement that the whole regulation is handled by adjusting the output voltage. Or in other words, if there is no regulation at all (LCC completly off, but I don't know if that is even possible) there wouldn't be an under- or overshoot at all and instead just a fluctuating drop.

@@maxmustermann7397 You would still get overshoot. Overshoot is not caused by LLC. It just is made worse by very high levels of LLC If you turn LLC off ( maximum LLC/flat voltage) Overshoot gets worse, as does undershoot. LLC is just a level of resistance that the VRM is simulating.

@@rankcolour8780 There are multiple things involved and this disccusion would get unintelligible very quickly when we start to include more things here than just LCC. So please don't let us talk about overshoot from the inductors or maybe other things. But despite from that if overshoot isn't caused by LCC what else causes it? How are you sure that the overshoot from the LCC is related to it and not independet from it? If the regulation isn't done by adjusting the voltage how else? In addition please don't mix up words and stick to one contemplation. You are using terms in a weird conjunction, calling it off and maximum at the same time isn't reasonable. What I'm saying from the beginning is if the LCC settings are set to high, the base voltage line which the CPU sees is the same / flat overall regardless of the load, meaning the average voltage if there is load and no load is nearly the same. So I say to archive this the VRM needs to add more voltage to the system, like to apply 1,1 instead of 1,0 on the source side so the CPU still get 1,0 on the other end of the wire. But when were isn't a load anymore the CPU will get the full 1,1 for a short time until the VRM detects it and reduces the voltage back to 1,0 again.

@@maxmustermann7397 maximum llc is zero load line calibration. You seem to have your terms mixed up. As load line level decreases resistance and droop increases, increased loadline is less droop because Load line is not voltage regulation it is resistance based on current. If you turn off all LLC you would have flat voltage and lots of overshoot and undershoot. The reason you are missing an all embracing solution is because transient overshoot and undershoot and load line are not the same thing so they cannot be explained with one notion. If you stop telling yourself LLC is voltage regulation and call it what it is levels of programmable resistance you will understand both. Voltage regulation is a result of VRM switching, not loadline. Load line is resistance VOltage regulation is VRM switching Over/undershoot is the inability of the VRM to keep up with changing CPU power states combined with the function of caps. Zero LLC results in the largest transients, large amounts of LLC (resistance)result in the lowest

The min voltage is still the same, so it's inefficient.

Vdroop is a thing because the CPU core and VRM are a pair of resistors in series, otherwise known as a voltage divider, and the way the resistances change as the output voltage and load change cause the VRM resistance to increase at a proportionally higher value than the CPU. Trying to completely remove Vdroop is effectively engineering away one of the basic laws of physics as applied to electronics, the result of which is most notably larger load-off voltage transients. You're exchanging a slightly lower voltage under load for rather nasty voltage spikes every time the CPU stops doing something. The compromise of a little bit of Vdroop and far more managable transients is the easiest, cheapest way to make the situation acceptable. EDIT: See Buildzoid's recent follow-up video - modern VRM designs mean the load-off transient overshoots don't increase a lot, but the undershoots that immediately follow result in a short period of reduced Vcore where a quick reapplication of load to the CPU is much more likely to cause a crash (srsly, watch the video, the details are important, it's a balancing act)

It's not. Bricked would imply the vBios chip is corrupt or something.

Have you watched and listened to the vid? I think someone is facepalming to your comment. Afaik as i understand now, Asus's higher end Boards copy the die-sense. And then when you read a cheaper one it doesnt. So if both Boards report the same voltage, the cheaper one is actually less voltage. And that less voltage is why less powerdraw/heat. And in case i misunderstood, hit me daddy.

That's more likely just down to crappy heatsink design combined with less VRM surface area