If you think a professional is expensive wait until you employ an amateur.

I’ve only just finished watching this and being a roofer myself I’m sorry to say you would be better off ripping it off and doing it properly. If your having problems now, trying to fix some of the problems is basically putting lipstick on a pig. Take it off do it properly and you won’t have to worry about problems in the future.

This video made me genuinely sad, but not for Ross&Vicky, rather for our trade. The reason why they are in this mess is not that they cannot afford a better builder or a high quality project. They drive a Tesla (to see at the begin of the video), they can afford such a two storey extension etc. etc. I suspect that the real reason is, and this is a huge problem nowadays, that they simply don't value the job of a (roof) builder. The fact that you have to pay for a good, high quality job hasn't dawned on them. People have stopped valuing blue collar jobs, they stopped appreciating the experience, skills developed over years, knowledge. They watch a couple of KZfaq videos and think "oh that's so simple, I can do it too, if not, I won't pay much for this job". It is a mess - I am almost tempted to say they deserve this. As for the job itself, honestly, tear it down, do it again, properly. It would save you a lot more in the long run.

Here is a classic case of ‘we didn’t want to pay the money and opted for the cheapest’. I guarantee you they sourced the materials themselves and then found the cheapest roofer on check a trade. Funny how this sort of work only appears when “we done most the work ourselves”, it’s quite clear they didn’t want to spend the money and now complaining the works shite 🤷‍♂️😂

After 40 odd years in the building trade i'm glad that in a few years i can walk away. The ever increasing technicalities and specifications of modern building has just made it so much harder. And yet , here we have a couple of rank amateurs who think it's simply a matter of doing "the easy bits" and getting "an expert" in to do the hard stuff. Maybe when my arthritic knee gets to painful i'll do the easy bit, cutting it open, and then get an "expert" in to do the rest. He's assured me he's an experienced surgeon. Seriously though, this just highlights how little most people understand about modern building. None of it's easy, you can f**k it up in so many ways. They might stop that roof leaking but it will never be right. Firstly it's to shallow, 17.5 min for those tiles. Something like a Sandtoft 20/20 will go down to 15 but then the devil is literally in the detail. Anywhere that you have a penetration , like a roof light or soil pipe then it's so difficult to flash, as soon as a tile kicks up slightly you pretty much lose the fall and the water will run out sideways, your flashing have to be much wider. You better make sure your underfelt is good. Velux flashings at these low pitches are pretty much useless , on site lead secret gutters are much better but expensive to do And on another point, soakers DO NOT work on those large interlocking tiles, again the water will simply run off the side before it reaches the next tile, you might possibly get away with a WIDE cover flashing but a secret gutter is the approved solution, especially for wall abutments. Sorry for being pedantic but we are having to deal with these low pitches so often because of big single storey extensions. The "architects" draw it and then somehow we have to build it. Don't even start on the insulation/ventilation/VCL saga.

This is a massive problem for us that specialises in roofing,clown builders and internet clients,no way that was done by a time served roofer.

The roof tiles are not even spaced out properly. Rough job !!

Apart from the big problems with the roof lights, the gauge of the tiles is way out! It looks like they’ve started at the facia, worked their way up and hoped for the best at the ridge!!

Surprised it only leaks that much.

I’m a roofer and this is why I’m coming out of it. There to many of these cowboys out there now taking the work of the genuine trades men. Seems the roofing trade is the worse for it.

I don’t know where to start Roger, I’m a general builder not a roofer but do most of my own roofs, I’ve seen some terrible work but that is right up there. The gauge of the tiles is terrible, doesn’t even match the other side, I’m guessing they weren’t roofers or experienced guys, I can’t believe any half decent trade would leave it like that. I’ve lost count the amount of jobs I’ve seen like this where customers have tried to save money by project managing the job themselves and trying to save money, what you get is each trade coming in and frankly not giving a f**k. It’s why I prefer to be in charge, that way, the buck stops with me. It’s pretty shitty of the window glass supplier not to supply a flashing kit too in my opinion. Whole roof needs stripping off and redoing tbh, I wouldn’t trust any of it.

I’m sorry but that is horrendous workmanship, Just a few things spring to mind: • Roof battens/tiles incorrectly gauged leading to a terrible short course. • Roof tile bonds not central. • Dry verge caps terrible installed. • Need to ensure lead soakers are installed where it meets the wall not just lead cover flashing. • The flashing needs redoing around the roof windows with soakers installed. • Ensure at least 100mm headlap on the tiles due to low pitch. • Ensure 150mm lap on the membrane due to low pitch. • Probably no eaves ventilation. If they planned to live in the house long term i would personally start fresh on the roof, Remove all the tiles, batten, membrane and roof lights. Install the new low pitch Velux roof windows which has their our flashing kit instead of that terrible lead around the windows, New low pitch klober membrane, New marley mendip 12.5 degree roof tiles that are designed for these lower pitches and new lead step flashing against the wall with soakers.

Poor advice given in my opinion the roof needs to come off and correct tiles for the low pitch situation fitted. The coursing of the tiles differs on both pitches of the roof. The correct water proofing and flashing detail around the roof lights also needs to be introduced. Not good advice given in my opinion.

I've used Velux roof windows since I began in building in 1984. I've never had one fail. However, 15 degrees is pretty shallow....

Looks like they've built the kerb too wide for your rooflights, they're not overhanging enough. And that lead is atrocious. Then they've used insulated plasterboard inside, so the overall thickness is so wide that it exceeds the black margin of the glass. Those rooflights can be absolutely fine if installed correctly - mine is perfect, but my single ply membrane dresses up and over the kerb, they have a generous overhang, and the water all drains away on the flat roof. That particular manufacturer doesn't recommend them for pitched roofs, whereas some don't care... but they're not guaranteeing the roof are they Sadly for this family there are just so many defects with this extension that can clearly be seen, that we can safely say there will be countless things wrong that can't be seen, some that could take longer than 8 months to manifest - woes won't end with those rooflights

Probably cheaper in the long run to remove the roof and get a professional reputable company to do it correctly

A proper lead worker could create the correct traditional flashing to code that would solve the problem without a doubt but unfortunately the glass needs to be removed to flash it correctly as detailed otherwise is is just a matter of time before it fails again, unlikely to be a DIY enthusiast job though, you need to employ someone with the right skills and knowledge, it will cost what it costs but you will only need to pay once to have the issue rectified.

The name of the strip roger is talking about to the abutments is called a termination bar, mainly used with pvc and Epdm roofs .

I'm willing to bet there isn't an effective vapour barrier in that roof (especially with the lack of attention applied outside), especially with those recessed downlights, and I doubt they made a service void - and with moisture from a kitchen it's likely that the roof develops issues from the inside over time

Hi Roger. The main take away for me, which is obvious but so easy to neglect, is to understand how structures are put together, how they work, so you understand the vulnerabilities, and the best way for me to learn about structure, and how things fit together is by observing 'detailed drawings'. A 'plan' and a 'section' is largely all you need to get an understanding of the structure. Then you learn more about loads and spans by checking out 'span tables' and then you could listen to an engineer talk about loads. Then I learn most about the quality of materials, and how they are used and work in the real world by people who have experience, such as you Roger. So thanks so much for your knowledge.

Those windows will always cause headache, take them out and replace them with a proper window kit, even if you put a valley in and do a nice job of the flashing, ultimately you would still want to lift the window to get the flashing undernesth, which I assume some sort of Tiger Seal has been used to glue it down, in which case the chances of lifting it are very slim without damage. I have removed it before with a heat gun and acetone but the problem would be actually getting the acetone onto the sealant to start to melt it. Get an endoscope camera and check the inside of the ceiling void, the stains where the joists are running across the ceiling could very well be condensation. I don't know if you've used a vapour barrier, however, I can see there's alot of downlighters & speakers, so even if there was a vapour barrier there would be alot of weak points. It's best to check sooner rather than later, if you have condensation occuring in that ceiling/roof void it won't take long to rot the timbers. I'd say you'll probably be okay as tiles will give you some ventilation above, but do check before any damage is done to the timbers.

Thanks Roger for helping out

Marleys web site says those tiles need a minimum of 17.5* pitch.

The dog is probably pretty good at roofing. Especially when somebody knocks on the front door.

The roof lights were a false economy as no flashing kit was provided by the manufacturer, by the time you take into account the extra work and materials to form gutters a Velux or similar window would have been on par price wise if not cheaper. They would also have had the benefit of trickle ventilation and being able to open to let fresh air in.

That roof needs to come off. The pitch is too low for non profiled tiles. 17.5 degree minimum. Those rooflights seem bespoke. Better to use velux with proper flashings kits. If not then the lead needs to go over the glass. Shocking work

From the start it should have been a flat roof, the upstairs window cill are 2 close to the lead flashing There's not enough upstand to the lead flashing The roof windows should have a 150mm upstand above the roof If the were adamant on a pitched roof it needed to be a steeper pitch or used a rubber/fibreglass type of covering It's an absolute shambles from start to finish

I have Marley Moderns on my 1971 bungalow and only now, 51 years later, some need replacing. Lovely roof tile.

Good that your advising these guys 👍🏽😊

These tiles have a minimum pitch of 17.5 and require a 100mm head lap (which needs checking) meaning they are not suitable for this purpose. Some of the setting out looks awful and rain could drive back up. I’d not sleep at night during heavy rain with this roof. With cost in mind, I would have those tiles off set aside and install onduline prior to reinstating the tiles and re doing the roof light. Admire people tackling self build/project management but this is an example where it’s not a straightforward build and specialist details that require professional advice. If this was drawn by an architect/technician these issues wouldn’t have arisen they would have been spotted.

Looks like the abutment flashing @ 5:33 might just be sealed to the blockwork, not stepped in (unrelated to the rooflights) - I'd be concerned that they don't have a cavity tray where the lower roof meets the wall of the two-storey part, so any penetrating moisture could drop down in the cavity. And that lead is looking stretched...

-Needs soakers not cap flashing. -Tiles wrong for the pitch, probably get away with them if they have 125mm headlap. -glass needs more overhang. -needs a Vapour barrier. -no soffit vents and probably hasn't got over Facia vents. -needs a few vent tiles along the top. Probably isn't cross battoned either.

Interesting topic. thanks for sharing. Very nice^^

Hard to know who is a genuine honest builder , a genuine but over priced builder, a genuine but lower priced builder, or a cowboy builder. A cowboy could be dearer than a good lower priced genuine builder.. so 'getting what you pay for' isn't a good benchmark.. Also if you own a two or three story house there is no way to inspect work yourself ...

Great channel

It is possible to produce the bespoke style skylight that has been attempted here, if you use something like the Cappex system . The glass should have an overhang on the front etc. As others have said the pitch is wrong for the tiles. Also with any flat concrete cross bonded tile, you need to use a secret gutter system at all abutments and then a small lead saddle to bring the water back onto the tiles. I think this style of tile is a bit shit myself anyway for this reason and the fact that you rely on an unseen, brittle water-track with a 5mm upstand to keep the water out! Oh yeah and they battened it in wrong too lol

Nice one roger, you have a great way about your good self . Respect brother

Let’s be honest here either they’ve done it themselves with a friends help or they’ve gone for the lowest bidder and expected a professional, that’s just never going to happen and they’ve got nobody instructing or keeping an eye on the trades making sure small problems don’t become massive ones.

Outstanding advice, given in a most balanced and professional manner.

It was very telling when Vicky said " to keep costs down" I fear she was tempted by cheap quotes for the various aspects of the works, and got a cheap job sadly. She probably needs to find a good jobbing builder who can put all the bodges right bit by bit after getting plenty of advice from you as to what it should all look like when done properly. The first lesson of contracting is that cheap builders are bloody expensive.

Good job we haven't had any rain in months otherwise you would have a pond indoors, hope and no hope ! not sure which one you had fit the roof lights

Classic example of people trying to do something they're woefully unqualified to do. The roofers, and the client. Whole build looks a total bodge.

Why oh why would you not have just bought a proper pitched roof window such as a Velux, Keylite or even Fakro? EDIT: I now know, all in the name of saving money! Personally if a customer had told me they wanted to fit these roof windows in a pitched roof I would insist they change to Velux/Keylite or I would refuse the job.

Not the choice I would have gone for - no vents - where is all the condensation going to go, other than run down the reveal?

Hi Roger, it looks as if I am a bit late to the party on this one but having spent the best forty years of my life dealing with these issues . Watching his video which is very good and clear as you say, I am reminded of just how difficult it is to see the cause of the problem from the outside when it is all covered over. In the old reliable style of starting with careful, persistent inspection and observation after a while my brain starts to join some of the dots, raising other questions requiring further observations. What I can see from outside is that the side cover flashings over the soakers do no come down far enough!, there should be at least seventy millimetres of cover, or down to no more that twenty millimetres above the soakers. A bit later we see the ridiculous badly fitted flashing along the back gutters!, that lead has to be fitted over the up-stand and doubled back on itself to prevent capillary transmission. Then an appropriate sealant between that lead and the glass. The next point is that the back gutters should have a flat 'floor' constructed in timber and covered with a sarking to prevent abrasion and adhesion, it should not be on the top of any tiles!, terminating at a step down to the side gutter thus allowing for an up-stand at the overlap of the lead. The next part shows the inside where the damp patches indicate any number of issues!, the primary one that I would like to know much more about is the exact sequence and application of the appropriate membranes and insulation, it is absolutely imperative that the vapour barrier is complete unbroken and effective and always between the inside and the insulation. With all that in place and working to prevent any condensation the roofing membrane must be fitted very carefully so that any water coming through the tiling gets diverted away from any cuts or corners in the roof-lights, Listening to your conversation with them I hear you explain much of the same points and by the look on your face I think that you also think that the whole thing has to be taken apart and done properly!. At the same time you are clearly trying to help them to avoid spending too much money and the 'fixes' you offer might help them but if as I suspect that they have serious condensation issues that will never go away!. Cheers, Richard.

Journeyman glazier from across the pond, only commercial though. I would put some roll on tar like flashing underneath your roof tiles. Next, install an aluminium flashing that will dive underneath your roof tiles, and capture the top edge of the glass, with a 1/4" or like 6mm(?) gap, which can be sealed with silicone. I had to replace an entire commercial job I installed back in 2016, as every window leaked. Haven't suffered from leak issues since, and I've glazed a million square feet since then.

The headlaps on those tiles on one side of the roof is woeful

These horror stories seem to be more the norm. As someone who is looking to engage a builder for 2 projects, a garage conversion to home office/studio and a conservatory tear down to replace with a proper brick extension and solid roof how on earth do you sort the wheat from the chaff with builders?

This is where self project management with no experience falls down

I see 2 a month as bad as this if not worse. All good advice given if its not going to be stripped. The sarking felt used is not breathable but gas permeable this is the most common misunderstanding I see. Block up the light fittings and protrusions in the ceiling, its the No.1 best thing to do to help stop the migration of moisture into the above construction. I have the same opinion as Roger it's not broken don't try to fix it, so monitor it and see if you need to do anything. But fix the skylights.

What is with the odd tiles second row from top! Personally I’d have the full roof stripped and also fit the more expensive roof lights

Can sympathise - As a retired carpenter with a dodgy knee I got a firm (specialists - sic) in to sort some roof problems, I was so appalled by the work when I got up to check I threw them off the job and now (painfully) doing the job myself to get it done before the weather breaks

My heart goes out to them, I can see the pain of their faces. We desperately needed a new combi boiler but everyone was fully booked. We did find someone that wasn't. That should have rung some alarm bells but we were desperate. What an absolute lazy install. Gas pipe running from an old live pilot lit heater that we asked them to remove. They removed the heater but ran the gas supply from that to the boiler so just as ugly at the end. Thankfully some 6 months later our star of a heating engineer Rob was available. He came to us and discussed the options. He came back for a day and made it all good. I have photos and video of the firm that came originally and just left us with an eyesore of a working boiler. At least we had hot water and heating. Rob removed all their pipe work, put in new copper and not the plastic push fit they had used and he hid it all, plus he bricked up the gaping hole left in the interior and exterior wall where the original flu was. They didn't even do that. Rob was so upset for us he charged a "mates rate" bless him and what a wonderful job he did. Modern Heating in Portsmouth. I won't name the other company but will say "If you can't get anyone because they are fully booked, avoid the lads that are available. They are available for a reason and it won't be a good one". I hope this lovely couple get their dream.

It’s important with a vapour barrier that it is installed on the inside of the insulation

do you have beams around doors, windows, large openings in this construction? in the uk?

Can I ask what your budget was for the roof? How much was the total cost on the roof. This can be a problem when self managing a project to save money as a reputable firm would deal with everything. Hope all gets sorted out👍

I would run from Mr Ross and Ms Vicky. All done on the cheap and full of subsequent fault-finding. I would like to spend an hour with the various builders unlucky enough to have been invited along to this self-build shambles.

If i was still able to work i would grately help these guys out as i only live in Walsall. Such bad wormanship

I'll pop round with a couple of rolls of 4" flashband, and the jobs a good - un. 🤣

What makes someone think they can project manage something they have no experience in? As a main contractor/project manager you have to know (even if its not your trade) if somethings right or wrong and that comes with years of experience. Most builders would have spotted this at drawing stage. I would have suggested dropping the eaves level to achieve 17° and get some proper roof windows not that shite! The fact they don't come with a flashing kit says it all! All though the roof is a bit of a bodge it's the design that's at fault.... The pitch and those windows!

I live in Stafford interested to know who did this

Roger, you mentioned the flashing around the rooflights should be underneath the tiles... Should the flashing from the wall be underneath too?

The first sign that slaps you in the face that screams out cowboy is the gauging of the tiles. I think the main problem is the lack of headlap on the pitch of the roof. Shocking.

The short course at top 😂😂

3:54 and there's the first big alarm bell lol

Am pretty sure Marley Moderns need minimum of 17.5 degree. Also, am pretty sure the black visible part of the glass should cover the timber upstaged. It looks like they have used a standard say 4 x 2 timber to form the upstaged and not followed manufacturers guidance on that.

I'm not a builder or roofer but it looks like a monty halls up of a job

You need to review the Bi fold doors too!

Don;t peep underneath the tiles and play about with it,--strip it, sort the flashing, set- out properly and re-lay the tiles, job will be a good-un!

The whole extension looks like a DIY project gone wrong.the Blockwork alone would question if it's been done right ,tied in etc cavity trays where needed .I'd rip them out for velux as there always going to be an issue

Surely, Building control and the Architect are employed to prevent this. Roger, Please set up a list of contractors vetted by yourself, that can prove that they have a minimum standard of workmanship and proud of the work they do. Paying you 0.1% of the contract, for arguement sake. Recommendation is always best! Another great disaster film.

Great video , it doesn’t look a great job to be honest . They should have used velux windows . Ive had my velux windows in over twenty years now , and have never let me down . I also fitted them myself just following the instructions . They’re also not that expensive to be honest .

How is the glass fixed onto the frame ???? And is it Dubble glassed Just glue and silicone

Roger thanks for sharing this. I learn so much from each of your videos... btw the bookcase looks impressive... trying to read the books for clues but 1080p not quite enough ;-)

Hi I'm that Roger Busy Bee off that Skill Builder channel wot you all like and tonight I'm off out for a night on the tiles.

Flashband the hall mark of a cowboy agreed, quick fix, requires no skill. However I have used it on my own house as a "temporary" fix, it had a corrugated tin roof over the kitchen (high spec!) and it did a brilliant job for 7 years, when I took it off to re- do the roof it was so ridiculously well stuck to both the render and tin after all that time.

Water is getting in behind the lead at the top of the window. The breathable felt should go up to top of timber upstand. Bigger headlap on tile or higher pitch

You were correct, MArley moderns are 17.5 degrees. That flashing is horrendous, i would b interested to see the manufacturer's spec for preventing water running down undeneath the glass at the top edge. Great content as always.

You need to name and shame that roofing company as if he did this to you then he will do it to others as well.

I would use CT1 and EPDM roll personally.

That's designed to fail and leak. Two things I noticed without even watching the whole video but I have watched it all now. That's a ridiculously low pitch for a tiled roof. It should be a metal roof. Second, what are those dodgy skylights? Why not use Velux or similar? I would redo the whole job.

It's a good product ... for price.. but must be installed correctly.. also there is a common denominater in the various problems with the build in general ... The Cluent x

Use sikaflex,lead mate or ct1 to seal under the glass

Anything that is done to repair will be reliant on a sealant which isn’t good long term The glass is sitting flat on wood even if the lead was folded under the glass it would not make a great deal of difference there is no drip to stop the weather getting under the glass panel

Any time you have to use flash band flashing other than a temporary repair , it’s a bodge job

Customers are always right but can also be their own worst enemies ....every last detail should have been drawn up by a architect and followed to the letter . Looking at the gentleman and his wife my thought is a little knowledge is dangerous .

Whole things a mess. Starting with the roof pitch.

Roger - as a Roofer with almost forty years experience - the first thing that struck me was; I can't believe the Architect specified singe lap concrete tiles on this extra low pitch - it's just asking for trouble - If I was given this job I would have take one look at the pitch and said No - you need a double lap roof covering - Eternits or composite slates, whatever, but not concrete tiles! the underfelt should not be relied on to keep the roof dry under driving rain conditions as it is obviously going to be doing here, and that gutter down pipe from the upper valley - handsome!

Surely the lead should be lapped over the top of the timber up-stand? That would be my guess is the main culprit. Also you should get a window with a frame that sits over and down the up-stand. Even if you do flash the lead over up-stand you would still need to seal with silicone/mastic which will eventually fail. Doesn't seem a good detail/design. We have had a similar window installed recently where the lead was lapped over and the window frame sits down over the up-stand. A bad design made worse by bad installation.

I hate getting a trade in. Price isn't always a guarantee quality. I'm ex trade (health prevents or hinders me doing some things). On the few occasions I've got a trade in, I've wished I'd done the job myself. I wonder if the builders concerned have seen this video, and better still read the comments from those in the trade? Any work now is a bodge on a bodge.

"Lead soakers" on interlocking tiles (single lap)! No, wrong technology. True soakers are for double lap tiles like slates or Rosemarys etc. Continuous overlapping lengths of lead strips are required like shown BUT with at least a 100 upstand, preferable 150. Secret gutters not recommended on "flat" roofs like these, get clogged up too quickly. Extremely poor detailing on top abutment gutter.

Any update on this roof ? Even if made water tight I couldn't look at it... sorry. On a positive note I'm guessing stripping would have been easy as there's a good chance the tiles were held on with gravity hooks 🙈

Calculating gauges is 1 the first things learned at college that second top course tells you the people that done the roof didn’t know what they was doing and the lead at skylights should be over the top of the glass top and 2 sides 🙈

if you don't do it yourself, 90% of the time you will have work to fix anyway.

Turned in a bid on a complete custom built kitchen redo with everything they asked for along with two days of hand drawings had to take today off while they drive three hours to IKEA to look at "less expensive"cabinets I think you can probably guess at least one thing these skylights, those cabinets and a turd all have in common.I have been a certified Pella/Velux installer for thirty years and have to say that is one crappy looking kit and install. Best advice for the homeowner would be to not request those fella's return back again.They should have at least asked the provider of the units for installer referral's.

The roof pitch determines the flashing anything under 17.5degrees is in my view too shallow using a proper manufactured roof window is the way to go

the timber frame at 2.23 should be sealed, usually with this type of window its a rubber membrane nowadays. I would suggest in your situation you remove the window and install a lead apron to the frame and reinstall the window.

Wonder if they sorted it out iam not far away from Stafford

Ive stopped the vid near beginning just to say you do not use tiles on a 15 degree roof .

That's a full on Cowboy effort. There are no flat concrete tiles that go down to 15 degrees so that is wrong for start. They have clearly laid the tile courses out wrong because they are uneven at the ridge. The roof windows are terrible they should have gone with a proprietary roof window and flashing kit such as those available from Velux or Keylite, a competent DIY'er can fit them. However the bigger problem is that the openings for the roof windows have been framed wrong hence why the plasterboard and insulation can be seen through the glass. for safety sake i would strip the lot off and get a professional roofer to sort it out. They could sell the concrete tiles online to recover some loses.