How Much do Investment Bankers Really Work?

Рет қаралды 121,835

Күн бұрын

💡Break into Investment Banking by learning DCF valuation, accretion / dilution, and recruiting strategy: bit.ly/PFInvestmentBanking
📚 Free recruiting resources: peakframeworks.com
In this video, we explain how many hours you'll have to work at a TOP investment bank. The most competitive groups with the best deal flow and recruiting options typically require you to work 60-80 hours per week. We break down what a 60 and 80 hour work week look like and explain why 100 hours per week is likely exaggerated.
We break down the investment banking workflow to show you why so many hours are required. There's a combination between external factors (the market, the client, the complexity) and internal factors (your firm's culture and proficiency).
** Full Blog Post: bit.ly/PF-IBDHours
0:00 - Intro
1:22 - Investment Banking Hours Distribution
2:06 - 60 Hour Work Week Schedule
2:52 - 80 Hour Work Week Schedule
4:00 - Factor Determining Banking Hours
Peak Frameworks is a business career prep service started by Matt Ting and Patrick Fong, who have each spent several years working in investment banking and private equity in New York and Silicon Valley. Matt and Patrick met at Evercore, a top tier investment bank, and over the years have tutored and coached dozens of candidates to land their dream business job.
Matt Ting: / matthewting
Patrick Fong (HBS 2021): / patrick-fong-0b773041
#InvestmentBanking #Finance #Careers

Пікірлер: 178

@datascientist7580 3 жыл бұрын

This is the best video explaining working hours in a particular career field I've seen so far. The way you breakdown typical daily work in a week is informative.

@matthewgillespie2835 3 жыл бұрын

It is generally hard to find good videos about investment banking, which is why I loved this video. Thanks!

@evanfisher3016 3 жыл бұрын

Good video! I worked as a banker and agree with your points. I averaged ~70 hours per week. My easiest week was probably 40ish and my worst was 117 (I counted). I only had 2 weeks over 100 hours over 1 year. Working past 100 really messes you up, I was walking around dizzy and delirious by the end.

@bjeen000 3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you had it easy. What was your bonus %?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Haha agree, 100+ is a nightmare man.

@developandplay 3 жыл бұрын

So investment banking work generally doesn't require any mentally challenging problems? As a STEM person I can't understand how you would be able to do any challenging work in that mental state...

@adamfattal468 3 жыл бұрын

@@developandplay What major?

@developandplay 3 жыл бұрын

@@adamfattal468 CS

@FinancewithEJ 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video very informative and it’s good to see that you done it and telling us the hours and the job as a whole.. I want to be an Investment Banker after college and have my own firm after 💯

@TheBulldogsk8 3 жыл бұрын

"its mainly done in excel" oh no......

@FaiazZaman 3 жыл бұрын

Lol was studying finance from investing interest and was thinking into moving into finance (currently in IT), watching this video I think Im gonna stick where I am now, i go to office wearing sweat pants and sometimes (actually most of the time) work 30 hours a week if I exclude all those 2 hour lunch and napping break I take lol

@vuho2075 Жыл бұрын

2 things to keep in mind: - After a certain amount, the mind begins shutting down and the mistakes, formula errors, etc.. increased so much that the next day is a lot of double checking last night's work. Not productive. I've been an SFA for 20 years. - Killer hours need to be balanced with the compensation. Remember you're being paid big bucks for the pain. This is what a manager told me after I "lost it" one night.

@StreetFighterIIFeb 3 жыл бұрын

what a well done video with data to show how the day is split by hours. the biggest difficulty for me is the lack of exercise and SLEEP. those two things are killer. i know you can't have it all of course but this is so nice to see from the outside. i hate desk jobs where you don't move around often. easily gain weight and raise LDL and triglycerides and risk of diabetes. that all adds up real quick. but that;s just my side of the story. there are others who make the opposite happen in your industry., NO sour grapes from me, no sir!

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah! I also love your name haha

@ryuken1011 4 жыл бұрын

Heading into the summer with an internship at a large IB as an associate. Thanks for the information.

@kakr8r785 4 жыл бұрын

Helloo can you also guide me in being an IB..i am a mechanical engineer graduate...please help

@ryuken1011 4 жыл бұрын

@@kakr8r785 pursue a MBA at a top 20 school in the US.

@kakr8r785 4 жыл бұрын

@@ryuken1011 as i am a mechanical engineer graduate will be like q big trouble understanding the concepts of finance and ib...will be like alone or useles...and which uni did you get in?..

@ryuken1011 4 жыл бұрын

@@kakr8r785 there are plenty of career switchers in my MBA program. One of my friends was a software developer from India and now he's doing a banking internship. I would prefer not to say which school but I will say it is a Ivy league school.

@kakr8r785 4 жыл бұрын

@@ryuken1011 thanks for the reply bro

@jean-baptistesay6941 4 жыл бұрын

The 100 hour weeks are reserved for Apollo’s associates

@SemGabelko 3 жыл бұрын

what are those?

@ManMan-ul1pn 3 жыл бұрын

semi-atomic private equity firm

@zayadashraf8198 2 жыл бұрын

My plan is to go from IB into private Equity. Currently in my first year at a top uni so just taking it easy making sure my grades are good and hopefully I land an internship in my second year!!

@PeakFrameworks 2 жыл бұрын

Good luck!

@samuelng8972 3 жыл бұрын

Is it possible to make a video on your daily life as an investment banker and what are your daily roles and responsibilities? Or maybe describing what does an investment banker does?

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

Or how to do well in IB

@cwang9915 3 жыл бұрын

Part of the reason the culture is to work this many hours is because if you work double the hours you learn much more. Compared to an analyst at a mutual fund or buy side real money am Ibanking analyst will learn 3x+ more and also network more The other thing is that senior members don’t have time to work with jr members earlier in the day. Have to take care of shit with deals and clients etc. so work is dropped off later in the day which forces analysts to work more at night because you get the work at night when senior members are going home

@IndependentVictor 3 жыл бұрын

Hello nice vid! I wanted to ask you something. I'm really interested in Investment Banking and Venture Capital, but I'm a bit late to the game. I'll be graduating from Business and Law at 28, because I started uni later than my peers. Is age a limiting factor in that industry? Like, do they throw you out of the selection process once you see you're older than the rest? I will try to go through anyway but was just trying to gather some opinion from people who've actually worked there.I got some working experience in unrelated industries under my belt, but I'm willing to do the sacrifice altogether. Thanks mate.

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Nah I think you can still break in if you're a little older. It's harder, but every year or so I'd see someone who went to the army / got another degree who joined as an analyst.

@danieldragan7477 4 жыл бұрын

I found this video very informative as I am personally not in the field. I am currently a high school student and was wondering if you could make a video on what is the best way to break into the field. By this I mean major feeder schools students should focus on and things you should be adding to your resume as well as if it is possible to get in from a non-target.

@PeakFrameworks 4 жыл бұрын

Sounds good Daniel! We're actually working on a target school video and we do have a resume video already uploaded. We have a resume course where you can download our actual resumes on our website (peakframeworks.com).

@habibbialikafe339 4 жыл бұрын

he released the target school vid in case you are wondering. great u r involved this early on. def choose a good school based off what alumni say and who goes to BB and EB firms (can find on linkedin or in this dudes vid), rather than rankings like niche, usnews, etc.

@noldi123 4 жыл бұрын

what do you think about Middle Office - ie. Risk management?

@habibbialikafe339 4 жыл бұрын

treasury has some great aspects that could translate to trading, especially FI. Risk managment became really big after the GFC, where a lot of smart, mathematical people go to which will improve your quant skills which could also go to a different arm in trading. if you want to stay in middle office, then cool, but idk why you would when front office is more exciting and pays more.

@justexcel522 3 жыл бұрын

Great video. Thank you. Is 60-80 per week for analysts? Or can an associate expect the same hours?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

I would say associate is a little bit less, maybe 5-10 hours less per week.

@Trenacetate43 3 жыл бұрын

I work in a corporate strategy. m-f 9-6 with an hour break. sometimes I got off at 7 or 8 but very rarely so it is 40 hours a week, and I dont work on weekend at all. I love finance and capital markets but, I'mma be sticking with my job and trade stocks on the side lol..

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

Matt, how about vacation time? How many days did you and your peers take your first year (July -> Dec 31), 2nd and 3rd? -First-year analyst that keeps going back and forth on wether to take a week or not

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

0 my first year and then I took a week in my second year. I didn't do a third year. I probably wouldn't take vacation in first year unless everyone else in your group is doing it. If you're really busy, there will be the chance that you'll get asked to do work anyways even if you take vacation.

@jida8858 3 жыл бұрын

I’m going into an IB internship this summer, and this was so helpful! I’ve heard Canadian banks are more intense in terms of hours? So, we don’t get as much down time? Is that true? I’m expecting to go in at 70-80 hours but I’m not too sure whether Canadian banks tend to work more than the US?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

No, I don't think that's true. I think Canadian firms tend to work less than New York. 70-80 hours is the norm in New York. Canada has less deal flow and less intense culture. However, if you're talking about American firms in Toronto, those tend to be more chill vs. the big 5 Canadian banks.

@saurabhnarain9340 2 жыл бұрын

Watching a video about IB hours to make myself feel better about my IB hours while working on a Sunday night…yeah sounds about right

@PeakFrameworks 2 жыл бұрын

The grind!

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

I saw a thread on WSO and was wondering, what was your worst week like?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Worst stretch for me was end of first year in IB. There's a stretch in the summer after the second years have left, but before the new first years have started that is notoriously bad. My analyst class was also smaller since we had a few people in my group leave to hedge funds. I probably averaged 90+ hours for a 2-month time frame, which was really pushing my limit.

@foca2002 3 жыл бұрын

So is like I.T without the extra hours.

@economicsethan Жыл бұрын

Long hours are rewarded in the salary. I think they need to have more work-life balance though.

@EllisAlcantara 3 жыл бұрын

Is this for all roles across IB or just analyst?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

This is specifically for analyst, but it's pretty similar (5-10 hours per week) between analyst and VP in my view.

@arnibah 3 жыл бұрын

Peak Frameworks What about investment bankers in France? Do they work as many hours as many hours as the US or Hong Kong bankers do?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

No clue... I would guess no, but never worked in France.

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

On average, how many deals or pitches are you on at once?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

In banking, probably ~3 active (i.e. you get asked for something from one of those teams once every day) and an additional 3-5 that are more dormant, where you might get asked for something once every other week. If you're on a live deal for an important project, you might get taken off of other pitches and less important projects. Obviously really depends on market conditions and availability of other analysts, but I think that's a reasonable benchmark for my time.

@VincentYu_ 3 жыл бұрын

i love these slide decks haha

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Haha way easier than learning actual animation...

@VincentYu_ 3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakFrameworks gotta pay it forward with those wic slide decks xd

@anuragjain464 3 жыл бұрын

Sir is accounting degree like cpa, ACCA good for getting into investment Banking?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

It's OK, it's generally better to be more direct and do something like economics / business admin at a good school.

@LeveragedFinance 4 жыл бұрын

Is back office pay at 75k and 3k bonus worth the 50-60 hours weeks?

@PeakFrameworks 4 жыл бұрын

It depends on your target career path, but I would generally think no. From what I've seen, it's really not an effective way to break into front office in IB or to good buy side jobs. And at 50-60 hours, you'd make a lot more in corporate development or business operations.

@LeveragedFinance 4 жыл бұрын

@@PeakFrameworks do you know how I can lateral into Corp dev

@GamingPotatoHD 3 жыл бұрын

People in IB usually don't do it for the money right off the bat. It's a great kickstart for your career, because everyone wants you after you've worked as an IB'er for a couple of years. However, I think you can learn a lot at different jobs too, without working as much as in IB.

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

Did evercore let you workout during the day / while waiting? I know that’s a big thing that keeps analysts chugging along

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Group specific... my group did not. I don't think I worked out once in my first year haha! Hang in there dude!

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakFrameworks ouch lol I think my group head thinks if we get big enough, we wont want to leave our seat

@Sharpshooter649 4 жыл бұрын

Are you familiar with the term "prostitute mileage?" It's the total number of 'tricks' a pimp determines a prostitute can take before she goes insane. Is there a "mileage" concept in investment banking as well? If there is, don't you think 80 hours a week EXCEEDS that?

@PeakFrameworks 4 жыл бұрын

Haha that is a very grim thing to learn... Yeah, personally I'd say after 60 hours is where things start to become difficult. At 60 hours, you're pretty much already always thinking about work and don't have time for any hobbies. I don't think 80 hours is sustainable for a long period of time unless you're willing to give up other parts of your life. The people who stay in banking for more than 4 years have an insane amount of endurance.

@troyxing8717 3 жыл бұрын

Sharpshooter649 lol is that dave chappelle

@Sharpshooter649 3 жыл бұрын

@@troyxing8717 Yeah I got it from his more "Serious" special

@troyxing8717 3 жыл бұрын

Sharpshooter649 ya same that’s a true capitalist maneuver. Except in this case analysts expires in two three years so they’re pretty disposable

@Sharpshooter649 3 жыл бұрын

@@troyxing8717 So if case analysts "expire" every 2 years, does that mean there is high turnover?

@victoriarose6222 3 жыл бұрын

I just switched to finance and have so many questions regarding work/life as an investment banker. Pre-COVID what was your schedule like? were you allowed to work from home all the time or was it easier to come into work? Do you get paid time and a half after the 40 hours or was it set from the start that your salary was for 60 hours a week?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

This video is based on pre-COVID figures. No, definitely not allowed to work at home all the time. Probably go home around 10-11pm or so during the weekdays and have your computer around you until midnight to 1. You don't get paid for overtime.

@victoriarose6222 3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakFrameworks Thanks for answering my questions!

@elontusk9123 3 жыл бұрын

Do you think that survey of 13 Goldman analysts was inaccurate then? Were they likely blowing things out of proportion?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Could be accurate, but I would still guess exaggerated or not representative of most analysts over the course of their entire analyst program. 13 analysts is a small sample size, so could be a group that is getting crushed due to a specific factor (e.g. nasty MD, SPAC group). I have heard banking has been quite a bit worse during COVID though.

@arjunpandian527 3 жыл бұрын

Ah dude, China has got way too many boutique firms fighting for a single deal by reducing margins. This has reduced the payout to a very large extant. And there is automation of paper work.

@LeveragedFinance 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks what about back office hours. its about 55 hours to 60 hours a week.

@samwhaddad 4 жыл бұрын

9-5

@williambardsley7540 3 жыл бұрын

Back office is generally 8:30 - 4:30/5 sometimes early finish on a friday. I don't know where this guy has got his hours from most investment bankers don't work this much maybe sales people do but 60 hours a week would really be the upper end of what someone would work a week even for a trader.

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

william bardsley IB analysts definitely work 80 hours a week (if not more). Firms like FT partners and Moelis have a reputation for exceeding those. Some boutiques (Dyal Co) work 105+ a week when on a live deal.

@williambardsley7540 3 жыл бұрын

@@samwhaddad maybe analysts who work in m&a do but not everyone at an IB for a start M&A is front office not back office

@pranavthakare8754 3 жыл бұрын

How much time an associate has to work in IB?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Similar to analyst, maybe minus 5-10 hours. So maybe 60-80 on average?

@cylink1 2 жыл бұрын

is it possible to get into investment banking in your 40s?

@PeakFrameworks 2 жыл бұрын

Very unlikely... can't think of an example where that happened unless you already worked in finance.

@LooxJJ 2 жыл бұрын

welcome to 7/11...please come again! (show up at 7am and head out 11pm). It got whole lot better now I hear...

@JFK-1984 3 жыл бұрын

No life and a lot of money. I have both here in The Netherlands and working for the goverment. 40 hours a week for $110k a year good deal i think good luck

@dhruvshounak5516 3 жыл бұрын

i have heard Netherlands is expensive though...true?

@JFK-1984 3 жыл бұрын

@@dhruvshounak5516 i think its ok. We pay a lot of taxes en housing is expensive. I think i spend €1750 on my morgage, internet and electricity. €100 on health insurance and €350 on food

@dhruvshounak5516 3 жыл бұрын

@@JFK-1984 yeah housing is expensive...i love the cycle culture though would love to visit someday, the only problem would be i am just 5 7

@ten_tego_teges 3 жыл бұрын

I worked for a year in NL for a third of that and it already covered all my expenses easily leaving me with a ton of savings. I really wonder why people forgo their lives for those hundreds of thousands. What do you even do with all that money...?

@dhruvshounak5516 3 жыл бұрын

@@ten_tego_teges i really dont know some people are just money crazed maybe

@Abhishek-iy3rz 3 жыл бұрын

Why don’t ibs automate through Python

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

The work is extremely nuanced and client focused. I think there are some aspects that can be automated (like building out the first stages of a model and more presentation templates), but right now there aren't very good tools to automate every aspect of the IB job. Maybe in another 10-15 or so years we'll see fewer analyst roles.

@warcatbattalion 3 жыл бұрын

Imhumane. I'm glad I work at IB but as a risk manager. I work 8-11 hrs max a day.

@tylerd3246 3 жыл бұрын

Would I have time to get married and have children while still working in IB?

@kingjulian1428 3 жыл бұрын

Good question

@Financiallyfree2001 3 жыл бұрын

If you paid attention to the video, you would see that it would be very unlikely to find enough time to do that.

@tylerd3246 3 жыл бұрын

@@Financiallyfree2001 I did pay attention to the video, I was just asking a more personal question not addressed in the video.

@MegaDanca1 3 жыл бұрын

Stfu pussies

@codfather1999 3 жыл бұрын

As an analyst or associate? No. As a VP? Maybe.

@msrednic 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah - I think I'll stay in Marketing, lol....... 110k a year and you go home at 5 everyday........

@PeakFrameworks 4 жыл бұрын

Haha, hard to argue with that choice!

@bjeen000 3 жыл бұрын

5am?

@kizarumelon2477 3 жыл бұрын

lucky u, u probably have over 5 years experience then

@kanieraliapeng724 3 жыл бұрын

@@bjeen000 PM duh

@rcmag13 Жыл бұрын

I always thought the 100 hour work weeks was overblown some. 80 isn't that bad. I've been doing that for over 4+ years with working full-time, running a small prop firm and going to college full time. 80 is tough but doable and sustainable long term. 100 isn't very sustainable and the difference between 100 and 80 is much bigger as there is really no break between weeks and fatigue seems to get compounded.

@Baseballboy7197 3 ай бұрын

Cool story bro

@rcmag13 3 ай бұрын

@@Baseballboy7197 wow, a thoughtful post!

@cpolyalum 3 жыл бұрын

So in the end, you work for minimum wage.

@mikesand6239 3 жыл бұрын

What’s the salary? Would be curious to see a hourly rate calculation

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Not quite minimum, probably still between $30-$40 per hour as a 1st year analyst.

@mirthcards8281 4 жыл бұрын

I heard in reality the so called "work" they do are some of the most menial things like editing and typeproofing their pitchbooks lol. Not bad being paid a LOT of money to do silly stuff like that.

@Daniel-ls1gb 4 жыл бұрын

And printing, binding, and delivering said books!

@dxiao3196 3 жыл бұрын

easier said than done. If it was an easy job they wouldnt get paid so much

@bjeen000 3 жыл бұрын

Depends if you're on the buyside or sell side...

@jasonw9251 3 жыл бұрын

No. You are the one that’s silly

@hfweuiofnweuio500 3 жыл бұрын

@@dxiao3196 oh sweet innocence

@HERXMES 3 жыл бұрын

Its funny to me... that amount of hours got me to ~10k per month by trading (mainly options). Worked alot for that but I dont get the hype about investment banking...(anymore). If its for your ego its fine but... time is the most valueable thing.

@akal1236 3 жыл бұрын

Except you get to spend your time with some really really bright people. Also most IB people do it for the exit opps that you get after a few years. Barely anyone stays to become VPs or MDs.

@HERXMES 3 жыл бұрын

@@charlieallen6520 kinda true yes... Imo its alittle high. All depends on your personal goal.. some want the connections/power. Some want to be their own boss etc. Nothing is better than the other. I just think alot of people will get stuck in a lower position with work thst they dont like. Especially in finance. There is so much supply of finance majors... some will make it to nicw positions but alot will get filtered.

@JB-ej2qy Жыл бұрын

My son is going into finance. Yes he is interested in investment banking. But the hours are stupid. Nobody does a good job at those hours. Its stupid to ask them to do that. Work smarter not longer. There is no benefit with long hours in any profession. You will make more mistakes.

@personal5936 Жыл бұрын

No amount of money is worth me working 80hrs a week for a company I don’t own….fuck that

@williambardsley7540 3 жыл бұрын

lol most do not work 60-80 hours if they say that they are lying. Reading news online doesn't count as work. Most work between 45-60 hours. Just off the bat most of the hardest working IB employees do not start at 8:30 most traders have to be in for 6:45 because the markets open at 7am GMT then work until around 5-7pm depending on if they are busy.

@williambardsley7540 3 жыл бұрын

which btw is still almost double what the average worker in the US is working per week.

@alexx_tv2362 3 жыл бұрын

Traders can leave as soon as markets close pretty much

@dseer1395 4 жыл бұрын

Not worth it. You weren't given life /youth to work.

@ManMan-ul1pn 3 жыл бұрын

Depends on your priorities. I’d rather spend 2-3 years working in IB and learn the ins and outs of finance, and be able to move into pretty much anything in the corporate world afterwards than work 9-5 at some average job that doesn’t train you as much

@dseer1395 3 жыл бұрын

@@ManMan-ul1pn You can learn more about finance and the ins and out" outside of investment banking. Investment banking only teaches you about investment banking. There are corporate finance jobs that give good expsoure and work life balance and good pay.... and good life.. to teach you about finance and whatever else outside of finance you need to learn to be good at life.

@xHenry3110 3 жыл бұрын

@@dseer1395 Like what?

@jasonw9251 3 жыл бұрын

@@dseer1395 yeah like what? really curious about this

@andrewpreen341 3 жыл бұрын

How could this job appeal to anyone. This is no life. You cant take all that money to the grave.

@CodingJesus 4 жыл бұрын

It's not an interesting job.

@bjeen000 3 жыл бұрын

Doesnt sound like something Jesus would say ... keep your head up bro

@poohshmoo9892 3 жыл бұрын

the haircut though ... i will make you work extra if you dont fix it

@janrabie1890 11 ай бұрын

This is crazy and definitely not worth it.

@theodorewolter1033 3 жыл бұрын

embarrassing

@Fomocigars 3 жыл бұрын

His intentional lowering of his voice at the end of a phrase makes me cringe a little.

@londontown3052 3 жыл бұрын

The reason people in investment banking work so long hours, is because they are inefficient...If they were good at their job, they would be able to get it all done within 40 hours... just a thought... they’re either really crap and slow at their job... or they are really crap at negotiating their workload... either way, they are inefficient and only have themselves to blame for working long hours...

@samwhaddad 3 жыл бұрын

Not quite. If you get in the office at 9am and get work at 11am, 4pm, 7pm and 9pm, you’re going to have work a lot

@EllisAlcantara 3 жыл бұрын

Is this for all roles across IB or just analyst?

@PeakFrameworks 3 жыл бұрын

Mostly analyst, but I'd say it's pretty similar between analyst and VP...