What's your opinion on Sydney for an IB aspirant? The school would UNSW Business School.

Spot on! Would also add the schools that have a very qualitative IB training program with a strong track record, yet are easier to get in compared to target school, these are: Indianan Kelley : IB workshop Ohio State Fisher Futures

I have heard some of the schools with the so called 'student investment funds' are a farce or they are not so great. Can someone pls shine a spotlight on this, how do we evaluate the efficacy of these??

​@@mayavik1034 Go to one where the fund competes or ranks on a national level (google Undergraduate Growth Portfolio Competition). However, most student-run investment funds will look attractive on a resume as they add another layer of competition, require an interview process, top grades, or unique skill. Even at a lower-ranked university like University of the Pacific (where I went) you had to have at least a 3.8 GPA and they only accepted 15 students. I ended landing a quant job at a hedge fund that was later acquired and became Blackrock Credit.

@@aryannahar Falls into the same pile, if you're a top student in the SIF program at Fordham, because of the proximity to Wall Street, you'll likely get job offers.

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A lot of folks downplay the role of advisors until being burnt by their own emotions. I remember couple summers back, after my lengthy divorce, I needed a good boost to help my business stay afloat, hence I researched for licensed advisors and came across someone of utmost qualifications. She's helped grow my reserve notwithstanding inflation, from $275k to $850k.

That does make a lot of sense, unlike us, you seem to have the Market figured out. Who is this coach?

Just research the name Angela Lynn Shilling. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.

Thank you for the lead. I searched her up, and I have sent her an email. I hope she gets back to me soon.

What was your experience? How was it easier?

Theodore Ma I went to a non-target, interned at a bulge bracket and now about to start full time at a mega fund in about two weeks.

🌟 The Investor Center - Learn Investing is going to uva getting into IB that much easier than a non target

Theodore Ma UVA has a great presence in investment banking. It may be the best public university for investment banking recruiting.

Theodore Ma you are better off at UVA than any other public university honestly.

That's a good point. I think a strong student investment club / fund is one of the most reliable ways that schools can improve their finance recruiting over time. It really motivates alumni to help students more.

What do you recommend for studying in college at penn state for these financial firms. I was seriously considering it.

USC is solid. I don't have any direct data, but off-hand, I've generally found master's in finance programs to be pretty good at getting you looks. Employers will still look a lot at your undergrad, but I know several people who went from no IB experience to landing a top BB after doing a one year's masters. I would encourage you to reach out to alumni of your program so you know exactly what is possible. Definitely makes sense to target west coast firms for you given USC's dominance out there.

Congratulations and good luck, where did you get your undergrad? and how much relevant work experience have you had(if any) before applying? I’m curious because I’m interested in a USC masters as well.

Wow interesting, what firm is that

@@chibratoons9290 i work for one of the big 5 consulting firms. I prefer not to be too specific as i directly work with recruiting.

We'll add it to the list, thanks!

@@PeakFrameworks Hi! just subscribed today. I am currently evaluating pursing an MBA to transition to IB and am curious about this too. My top school (Rice University) does not appear on the current list but I believe it would be considered a target school if MBA data was evaluated.

That's a great question! We'll take a look at the data and try to put that list together for a future video. From my own experience, I think Georgetown is honestly still decent for MBA associates but Notre Dame is not nearly as good as they are at the analyst level.

I appreciate the response. I’ll keep an eye out for that video!

They're OK, Rutgers is kind of like a weak semi-target. They had ~25 people into top IBs over the same time frame. Just check the clubs with the best track record and join them.

Congrats! You can't really go wrong. Both are great schools. UVA has an awesome hedge fund program. I think Columbia is marginally better, but you should pick the school that you have a stronger connection to.

Sure, just credit Peak Frameworks and tell your friends about us!

I really like Northwestern, everyone I meet from there is smart and cool. Seems like a school with good placement and good culture. I think they still place pretty well for IB.

In my opinion, UVA is easily one of the best schools for finance recruiting in the country. Consistently places across all top investment banks and the people I've met from UVA have mostly been very bright. The school also has amazing hedge fund focused classes, which is extremely helpful when it comes to recruiting. Perhaps the school with the best hedge fund prep outside of Penn. That being said, from an overall career perspective, I'd still take any Ivy league over UVA.

UTSA is definitely a non-target, so you'd have the best odds if you transferred or if you played the long game and lateraled to different jobs after graduation. It's definitely not impossible to get an investment banking job, but you'd have to do extraordinary things like get good internship experience and be a leader in finance clubs. Yes, most analysts will leave after 2-3 years so they can go to the buy side (e.g. recruit for private equity).

CMU is a great overall school and has an amazing engineering program, but their presence in finance is still pretty weak. Our data says that they have ~20 hires at the top investment banks over the past 5 years, which makes them a non-target. That being said, the few CMU people I've met in finance are all very bright. MIT is a good comparison to CMU, they have really smart people who can get looks, but they don't have a ton of finance alumni.

bro if you go to cmu ur set dont worry. those kids just dont go for ib but kids ar cmu are incredible and everyone knows it at banks

Math is generally great, but you should make sure you're at least part of finance clubs so people know you're serious about it. I think you should be fine provided you get some club experience

FSU has just 2 people hired into these top investment banks over the past few years. Aside from transferring, your best bet is to start learning finance technicals now and make sure you have a decent freshman / sophomore internship. Aggressively network with your alumni and cast your wide net enough so that you're speaking with lots of boutiques. I'm not sure which ranking you're referring to, so can't comment.

I didn't go to UT so it's really hard for me to give super specific guidance. But yes, pretty much everyone I met from UT Austin went to McCombs, though I don't have an opinion on the Business Honors program. I was in New York and I actually met a ton of people from McCombs and they were all quite bright and motivated. You're better served asking alumni from your school on the specific paths that have the highest expected value. IMO you should probably try to transfer into McCombs. Then I would think like a semi-target (mostly Houston offers but New York highly possible).

I see. Thank you so much for the reply! Is there a specific major that you would recommend for a UT Austin McCombs -> NYC BB IB recruitment? I was thinking of double majoring in Finance with my current Economics major. Additionally, would a double major in those two fields even help when I’m applying for jobs/internships/getting recruited, or is it more of something that just helps me stand out?

@@JKROM5673 Hi! McCombs Alum here, but not IB so I’ll be able to give you some insight into my experience. I was also in the same position as you - went into UT as an economics major but transferred into Mccombs in 2017. I will say it is hard (and have become harder now I believe), but it is so worth the time and effort. McCombs opens up much more opportunities for students that want to get into literally any industry. Regarding IB specifically, all the folks I know are from McCombs (I’d say 50/50 mix between BHP and traditional) with the exception of 1 who graduated economics. So it’s definitely possible to get IB with economics, but much more possible with a McCombs credential. Your dual major pick is very standard for people that go into corp finance and IB, but what would make you stand out I believe is to pick a major outside of the traditional (for example, Finance paired with Sociology or maybe Mathematics). This allows you to study something you actually want to study versus studying something that would prepare you well to go into the traditional careers for McCombs grad. To be quite honest, major literally does not matter hahahah, and I believe it’s mostly about how you network your way into whatever job you want. As far as classes, I honestly took classes I knew would be easy and would boost my GPA above the average for my year of transfer (again, I think the average has gotten consistently higher over the years). I believe it’s about having a planned-out strategy to get into McCombs in regards to your classes, but also being involved in business-relatives extracurriculars that you can talk about in your transfer essay. Best of luck!

Yup, just posted this! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ateel7eb1pzTcYk.html

Nope, I didn't notice anything after 2018. Both UChicago and Ross are pretty solid for IB. Honestly I think Ross places more, but if you got into both, you should be smart enough to break in.

Michigan for IB, UVA for consulting and hedge funds. They're honestly all good schools in a similar tier though, so if you have a strong affinity for any of them, just go with your gut.

If you did JPM corporate I think you should easily be able to get analyst positions out of college?

Agree that it's an imperfect approach, but I think you start to introduce a lot of personal bias when you try to select for different factors, e.g. is it fair to include all 32k comes UC Berkeley when only a couple of faculties might recruit for IB? Which degrees can you include vs. not? When you try to do that for every school, it gets messy and less of a clear data-driven approach IMO. I also think that size of program / alumni base is helpful for recruiting. It means there is more people to network with and it creates a higher expected value for firms when they do campus visits. Plus, for UC Berkeley specifically, I would 100% say they're a target for west coast firms. They probably have the best overall placement into all SF IB offices. I can't think of a firm on the east coast that targets Middlebury as their #1 school.

Berkeley is a target, the class size is deceiving. You must also recognize that berkeley sends hundreds of people to google and Facebook as software engineers, highly coveted jobs that in many cases pay more than IB right out of college, so the percentage of people who are interested in IB is less. Furthermore, Stanford according to this video is classified as a semi-target despite being one of the best schools in the nation, simply because fewer Stanford students are into IB and more into tech/VC. I'm a student at berkeley and can tell you that if you do the right things, its certainly a target. Tons of placements into top companies and the TMT groups of those companies.

Solid school that will get you attention from employers. But most people from MIT aren't interested in banking so the numbers are overall pretty low. I wouldn't say they're a target, but they have enough cachet that you can still go get an IB job if you hustle.

I might be in the same boat as well. Tell me what you do. Thanks.

Notre Dame I don't think it's worth it. NYU maybe. Transferring would increase your chances, but I don't think it's necessary for you to get a good spot. Kelley still has good placement and is one of the best semi-targets. They have strong traction with Lazard and Moelis, which are great EBs.

I transferred from Kelley to Cornell.

@@putnaik9144 hey I know im 3 years late but how was your experience transferring from Kelley to Cornell? Did you get better recruiting for IB? And what year did you transfer?

@@eshanb1295 hey man. I graduated this past may. It was honestly amazing. I ended up changing majors and doing trading but it was well worth it.

Yes I would apply to both targets and semi-targets. Getting into the big targets is generally pretty tough regardless of stats.

I think you are in very good shape to get into a target school Sophia. Good luck!

Thanks! Unfortunately due to GDPR rules we can't scrape EU data properly and so I won't be able to.

School matters a lot more. Then it really depends. Look at the history of graduates to see which places better. There are economics programs at Ivy leagues that are going to be close to the best. But if a school offers both a pure finance / business program and economics, finance tends to be better (e.g. Wharton, Stern, Ivey off the top of my head).

Undergrad in US / Canada.

I wouldn't go to community college if your ultimate goal is finance. I would focus on semi target schools / ranked city in big school. You can definitely break in from semi targets.

I would consider BYU a semi-target, yes. Decent for IB, not sure on consulting.

Ross is the good one. Still very possible to break into finance outside of Ross though.

Both are great overall schools and you should feel good about your chances at either. For banking, Vanderbilt is overall better and gets significantly more placements in New York. USC has a dominant position and reputation on the west coast, but you have to hustle / network a bit more to place in New York. Still definitely possible though.

Lehigh is alright, they've had 18 hires over this time frame. I still wouldn't consider them a semi-target, but presumably if you're a top student from there, you can still land a banking role. You're right in that they send the most to Citi.

@@PeakFrameworks Thanks so much for the reply and I love your content on here and on r/financialcareers

I've never heard of this program.

North American only, so unfortunately not.

Not super important, just be above 3.5 and you'll probably get some interviews. 3.7 is the cutoff for most firms.

@@PeakFrameworks oh okay. Well, 3.5 shouldn’t be a big problem I guess. Also, I heard the major is not important at all which I find kinda weird.

Yes, I would say so. I don't know a ton of people from Kelley but it places empirically very well.

Non target. Just one to three people per year.

They're on the list in the video, ~25th best school based on pure numbers, probably like 10-15 people per year into top banks.

UNC is pretty strong to then get to Bank of America

They're very close to making the list! They have strong years but I don't think they have the consistency.

Really depends on the college. Middlebury, Amherst and Williams all do well and get more finance jobs per capita than other semi targets. But some of the other liberal arts colleges place very few into finance.

Yes, this is for bachelor degrees.

Unfortunately not, not my area of expertise

Based on the database we scraped, W&L is the clear winner. Washington and Lee had 24 placements, Davidson had 3, Grinnell had 0. Good luck deciding!

@@PeakFrameworks Thanks ❤

It's not great on a global scale, but it's still going to be better than a lot of other financial markets. I believe most BBs have small offices and Macquarie is a notable employer there. I've met a few Australian / UNSW people in New York, but they're not very well represented. I think the play would be to do BB in Australia then lateral.

@@PeakFrameworks Yeah, I mean, I plan for long term if I go there. So a global picture is not a big factor for me. I plan for Australia due to following reasons:- 1. A comparitively liberal immigration policy 2. Admission into a good business school in a relevant city related to the industry of interest 3. Climate (important for me due to health reasons) 4. On top of that, the course is extremely customizable, helps with my CFA L2 & also gives me an advisory license from ASE (the basic one, as there are levels) Sorry for the long read, would love to have your opinion on my approach. Is Sydney a wrong foot forward?

Yes, I would say so. All colleges from Penn do well. It depends a bit on which semi target you're at, but I would recommend switching.

@mariogotze6588 did you end up transferring? and if you did how did it go at Penn?

This is only for people recruited out of undergraduate programs. A graduate program list would look different (and is something we are working on!)

Peak Frameworks thanks for the reply’

It's a lot harder to do Europe because we scrape LinkedIn and the GDPR compliance rules prevent us from getting really accurate data over there. We'll keep this in mind though!

I unfortunately don't know. I've seen a fair amount of Bocconi people in the industry, but don't have the actual data.

Yeah, there's definitely a limitation to looking at the raw numbers, but I don't think any one person can effectively re-order this list without introducing a ton of personal bias. No single person is going to have a clear understanding of what it's like to recruit at all schools. I also think sheer # is helpful as a candidate because it means you have more people in the industry you can network with. This list is also an investment banking target school list, definitely not an "overall quality of school" list. It's also not a buyside list. I agree that traditionally prestigious schools recruit for the buyside more easily. All that being said, I still think people overrate those traditionally prestigious schools for banking. Having lots of smart kids by itself doesn't mean a firm will automatically target a school. For reasons you listed, it can be frustrating if you're a lower tier BB, go to a top school and no one is taking your offers. The expected value of targeting a school like say NYU can be a lot higher, especially when you consider the fact that these less prestigious schools are more likely to stay on as associates, etc.

What’s ur job now?

super late but i was wondering the same thing. especially interested in how UT austin and IU might move after doing so, with then being some of the largest university in the USA and all

There might be some influence, but at the top target schools it doesn't matter really. It matters more at the semi-targets like Rice or UCLA.

We have a Canadian targets video coming out soon! I think Ivey is the clear choice for investment banking and it's the only Canadian school that we consider a global semi-target. Ivey dominates Canadian recruiting and has strong traction with several U.S. firms. But Queen's is still great and is the #2 option in Canada for investment banking.

They are certainly traditionally prestigious and great schools to attend, but I think most people overestimate their raw presence in IB. I saw very few people from Stanford / Brown undergrad while I was in NY. There's more Stanford people in SF IB, but that's a relatively smaller city. These schools still do well for buyside recruiting, but they don't have the sheer numbers to be highly represented on this list.

I think you either need to rely on scholarships so studying in the U.S. is tolerable or start in Italy / Europe and then move later in life.

It's a fair non-target. Totally possible to get into IB, but it's like 4 or 5 students per year at top firms. Lots of placement into JPM and Bank of America.

@@PeakFrameworks Got it, thanks!

@@PeakFrameworks Would you have any recommendations for what to do? I've been following your advice for freshmen - networking with seniors who had return offers/internships from PE firms like Ares or BBs, reading Term Sheet/WSJ, starting on learning technicals and trying to find internships.

Solid school for IB, obviously a smaller place so doesn't do quite as well on these kinds of lists. Good on a per capita level. I've never met anyone in PE / HF from Williams, but I'm sure they're out there. Once you're in IB, school matters a bit less anyways

I would say so, BYU crushes it still. It does seem like a very different university experience though.

@@PeakFrameworks Sorry for the late reply as I’m not on KZfaq alot, But its worth is questionable as I’ve heard most end up in back offices such as GS salt lake city. Even if it’s true, does that put you at a disadvantage in terms of exits?

Solid, just barely misses this list. Had about mid 30's people over the past 6 years. Tend to place a lot into Chicago obviously.

@@PeakFrameworks Hey there! It is really nice of you to present all this data. Though, I am curious to see the numbers for schools that might have barely missed the list. Do you think you could list the numbers for Baruch, Rutgers, Florida, UGA, UIUC, Texas A&M, and Northeastern according to your database? Or at least maybe provide their ranks in order of placement?

BYU low key an amazing place to go to school for finance. I think it's probably the cheapest path to an IB job.

Seems pretty good for IB and consulting, but haven't seen any people go straight to PE personally.

Yes I think so. Not super easy but a lot of people come from Baruch / Zicklin.

@@PeakFrameworks To become an investment banker which school will be a better option between McIntire school of Commerce at UVA or Zicklin school at Baruch? I am a resident if NY.

100% UVA

I would say non-target

I can try to - I never worked in Europe so I'm a little more hesitant to speak about European data.

@@PeakFrameworks Would love to see one for europe

Go to Ivey, Queen's, McGill or UBC PMF

@@PeakFrameworks I was planning on attending Rotman, but are these schools better for IB jobs

These schools are significantly better, especially at the undergrad level

@@PeakFrameworks Would going to one of the target or even semi target schools in the US be an easier path into IB than starting my undergrad in Canada and hopefully completing my MBA at an Ivy League school

Great school, not a huge banking and PE presence though. Lots of quants and people in pure tech. I think if you want to do IB it's still very possible from MIT, but you'll have to do a lot of the legwork of networking yourself.

Quite poor, there's only been 1 placement per our database over the last few years.

@@PeakFrameworks Thank you for the response!

Princeton is a fantastic school and one of the best when it comes to pure expected value of breaking into investment banking. Their advantage becomes more evident during buyside recruiting. On a list like this, they'll be under-represented due to school size (and a lot of Princeton people aren't wholly focused on banking). I would say prior work experience > networking > GPA coming from Princeton. GPA needs to be excellent if you come from less of a target. If you can get anything finance related as a freshman or sophomore internship, you should be in good shape to land IB for your junior year.

Do you have a finance degree? What kind of startup experience? Geography? I would guess you need to get your MBA or a master's program.

@@PeakFrameworks i dont have a finance degree....i am a co founder of a mechatronics based startup company in india..

I think Goldman Sachs also hires engineers but not for IB positions. But if you start at Goldman Sachs as an engineer and later get an MBA maybe you have some chances

@@t-bone9239 thanks bro...hope i will somehow get to goldmansachs...

Baruch is OK but still definitively non-target in my view. They have about half as many placements as the lowest person on this table.

The results favor larger schools because the data is sorted purely by number of placements. Bigger schools will do better on this metric all else being equal. But I think there is a discrete advantage for bigger schools - more alumni, more likely to be targeted by firms, more collaborative peers going for the same goal. The list is designed this way because it becomes really difficult to try to account for individual school size. You would have to account for different programs, faculties, etc. and I think you then introduce a lot of personal bias. It's my opinion that only some NESCAC schools are good. Middlebury, Amherst, and Williams are pretty good and all around 30-40 hires, but it drops off hard thereafter.

Not bad, but not great. They had 20 hires from this database, so maybe 4 or 5 people per year, which would make them a weak semi-target.

@@PeakFrameworks good enough for me. Just means I’m gonna be working my ass off

That's the mentality you should have, good luck!

No real opinion, overall good school but I don't know anyone personally who's in finance from Bowdoin. I think some of the other NESCACs are better

@@PeakFrameworks Thank you!

Solid, but still misses this list. High 20 number of placements based on this data / time frame, so you have to be a top 5 or so candidate from your school.

I've never worked in the UK and the GDPR rules in Europe prevent me from accurately scraping LinkedIn, so it'd be hard. It's on my list though!