Kills me to see all the "now run it this way" comments. Richard works his ass off and does tons of research and tests and people still cry. You all do it then.

The fact we actually got to see you do all that work makes me appreciate the video even more! Much respect for your videos!!

20 or so years ago there was a local dyno day. A buddy put his late 90’s Cavalier on the dyno for fun, and his air conditioner was turned on. For some reason, the compressor did not turn off at full throttle and high RPM. So he ran the car again, but with the air conditioning turned off. His car gained 8 hp, which was like a 10% improvement!! 😅

Those water pump pulleys always make the best dinner bell 😂

Thanks for doing this test, actually freed up more HP than I was guessing. Keep up the good work.

This is another amazing video and test thank you so much. Adding a light load (~600w) on the alternator (for lights and fans) + the resistance the PS pump would need to overcome, that ~20hp + another 5 hp is over 6% 😮

Some guys probably will say “aargh you gotta have load on the alt for it to have a effect, not a good test “ 😂😂😂 Love the good work Richard !

I'll tell you what you need do test... A Patreon account. To pay for your time and energy you put into all of these test. Then you'll get paid for going back and adding a clutch fan and electric fans and whatever everyone else is willing to pay you to test. You give so much to the engine community. And test almost everything possible. Your efforts are always appreciated, and your videos are even watched by me and other motorcycle guys. 💪

These armchair guys give me a migraine, I don’t know how you put up with it 😂 Love the content, Richard

Very good way to sum it up at the end. Thanks Richard!!

I LOVE the NA 4.8L videos because I study them for my 2.4L 4-banger engine. To see only 19hp lost on accessories gets me really excited since I'll have all of mine on my car. Thank you for the awesome info, Richard!

RH your just totally awesome my friend 👍 Glad people like you have the ability to do the leg work needed to give us real time data ❤❤❤

Great stuff Richard, thanks for adding some facts to the conversation so we can speculate a bit less. Much appreciated!!

Some other considerations. The type of dyno used for testing matters. A loading dyno ( like a water brake , eddy current ) will measure the change in parasitic torque loss. An acceleration dyno ( like a drum Dynojet ) will show gains when rotating inertia is removed. In other words, a loading dyno measures actual torque then calculates HP. An acceleration measures HP ( work over time ) then back calculates torque. Some loading dynos have synthetic inertia measurement so this could help depending on the application. Reduced inertia will help acceleration however it will do nothing for pulling a trailer up a hill.

Fantastic !! Great job Richie !

Lots of info here, thanks Richard! My mental guess was 7 hp when you described the test, so I was very surprised by nearly 20. The E85 results were another surprise. Very interesting!

Good information thanks for sharing

Im glad you did this! When you did the blower test...i was like damn...he shoulda shown us what the accesories cost in hp. And here ya go! Love it. Honestly more hp than i would have figured. These are great numbers. I went to electric pump and electric steering rack on my 3v 05gt track car. Great info!

Okay Okay Okay but NEXT TIME to make it really really real world can you hook the alternator up to a cheap battery and maybe, say, a working man's 2000W walmart-style amp and sub combination? Then compare music genre to dyno graphs to see which type of music effects horsepower the most over a given RPM? Thanks :)

Thank you for actually making a pull past peak power, even though it only was for about 250 RPM lol Average power matters!

Edelbrock 2215 cam(220/220a.050 .510/.510 111 LSA(I think)) Made 312 rwhp and 308 torque on a chassis dyno. 650 carb, T56, 8.8 diff, mid length headers with Y pipe. I was surprised as it did as good as some 5.7 liter gen 1 SBC I’ve thrown together except the SBC made 30-40 more ftlbs.

The A/C is just a regular pulley when its not turned on

Wow! I didn't expect that big of a gain.

Ive only got the waterpump to the crank and idler on my 6.0. Oh and alternator. Interested in a ectric water pump but its a daily

Class 8 highway trucks on the chassis dyno would drop.25HP when the fan cut in. Now that is a big fan compared to cars and light trucks. This is also why net HP advertising numbers were mandated instead of gross power. Net power is as installed in the car. When the LT1 came out with the Opti spark, in a Corvette they were rated at 300 HP, in a Camaro 275HP and in a Caprice 250HP. The main difference was in the exhaust. Corvette owners expect a bit more noise from a freer flowing exhaust. Caprice buyers expected a very quiet ride, almost like Cadillac.

I’m digging the 60s Batman style zoom and tilt shots.

Such a great test Richard. I love the tongue in cheek nature of the "real world" complainers. That said, I've seen some testing from people, but would always love to see more, comparing the electrical load an electric water pump puts on your engine versus the mechanical load of a mechanical pump (ie: leave the alternator on, and configure your electric water pump to be supplied from the alternator). While many drag cars will operate exactly as this test, relying on a battery to provide the "horsepower" storage for the water pump, it would still be nice to see. My experience tells me that mechanical pumps are extremely efficient, and that most of the power they use is going to be directly applied to pumping loads, and those same loads would exist with an electric pump flowing the same amount of water. This means that in practice an electric pump might not save you any "real world" horsepower, but there are other huge benefits many might overlook, such as being able to disable the pump entirely for short bursts of WOT if you wanted, running the pump at 100% when the engine is off (allowing rapid cool-downs), as well as the benefits of running the pump at lower duty cycle when driving on the street instead of "wasting" energy of a pump pushing against a thermostat to regulate temperature. I think there's good reasons OEMs are playing with electric water pumps, but I'm also not certain it's about all-out power.

Good stuff! 👍

Personally I always figured that an engine from the dyno put in an engine bay would about 100 to 150 hp to the ground. In my speculation that 4.8 that made 404 to the engine dyno would really be worth about 275 ish in a car to the ground.

That's more than I expected, I was guessing more around the 12-15hp, not basically 20hp and it will be more for engines at higher rpm than they were designed for. What would be interesting to test is underdrive pulleys. They boast less losses, but the main reason you'd want one is on engines with a significant rpm increase is safety for the accessories. I have seen what happens when alternators explode and ruin a rare car's bonnet that you can't find replacements for and even on stock cars that you flog all the time up at the red line, the PS often overheat the fluid and spill over.

Great testing! I know you like to run the water temps cold but e85 does not like cold water temps in aluminum head LS engines. I have always found e85 makes more power in every stock or mod LS and they like to be at least 195F. With colder water temps, say 165F, hp is noticeably down.

I have seen 12 HP on old Windsor 5.0 fox...so to me it is right on. Thanks 👍

now lock up the clutch and put the fan on(7k rpm may be too much for it :D )

Awesome video and everyone thinks of this test, but you did it! 😂

Idle sounded pretty good on the nsr tn

Great video For a loaded alternator is about 2hp 12v * 100a= 1200watts, 646w/hp. Electric water pump 12v * 20a, about 1/2hp load

YAY! Shades of short stroke SBC. 283 forever!

Great video have you seen any electronic water pump serpentine kits that don't break the bank??

Another great and informative video Richard, but I do have a small issue with it. I know you briefly touched on it and said “take it for what it’s worth”, but that alternator is going to consume quite a bit more power depending on who much load it’s under. I remember seeing a dyno test in a magazine years ago (may have even been you that did it) where they were trying to determine if an electric cooling fan actually freed up more power than a clutch fan and the result was that when the fan was on the extra load from the alternator caused almost the same power loss as the physical drag of an engaged factory clutch fan on a small block Chevy. I’m not trying to discredit your work at all, but I think you missed an opportunity here. Im betting if you would have put that alternator and PS pump under load you would have seen an even more dramatic loss….possibly 30+hp rather than the 19hp you experienced. In the end it really doesn’t matter much BUT it would have been some good stuff to know for the detail junkies. Lol.

Awesome!!

Billet stage 5 ported and polish buckets catch more water lol

Don't forget the fan lol.. 😂😂

Air filter? Love the vid though

Wish you threw the clutch fan on just to see. Easy install.

Im guessing like 15-20HP gain. 11:30 man im good at this game. Stock exhaust manifolds and cats are probably worth another 20hp.

Be interesting with long runner tbss low down torque.

With the stock crank pulley and alternator pulley, the alternator will come apart before you see 8500. Also, a 5th gen water pump will come apart before by 7500. Ask me how I know.

I’m done chasing a handful of horsepowers, saving up for boost

Would like to see what the engine driven fan at full lock up draws. I can feel it sucking power big time when it's working in the summer heat.

G'day. I'd love to see the Vac U Pan system tested with and without mufflers. I ran a set with mufflers and on the street was great but on the track would blow the dipstick out. Supposedly this was because I ran with mufflers. Could be an interesting test? Cheers. Rhett from Perth, Australia.

I had a nissan hardbody truck that I was running around in high school. I was always racing everyone and mostly getting beat. One weekend the truck was running hard and was beating cars it shouldn’t . I popped the hood to check and the cooling fan was sitting in the fan shroud. Once I fixed it the truck felt like I was dragging a rock behind it. Dont know how it didn’t run hot but I should have put an electric fan on to get that power back.

Dual buckets, Whaaa! 😁

But what if I just got rid of the water pump and kept everything else?

How much does a mechanical fan draw for these engines.

I will just say this. Pertaining to the alternator. Without a charge running through it, it's basically just a free spinning bearing. I think it would be better to have it charging a battery to see how much load it actually takes.

In all honesty i expected more of a loss. But maybe because the AC and Alternator wasnt functioning?…. To me the 20hp loss is fairly small. But i assume “real world” when you factor in driveshaft and ac and alternator it may be around 50hp?. Either way its still less than i thought. When i see engine dynos i just say to myself take away 80-100hp lol

Love these kinda odd videos I’m that guy that will mismatch parts because I get bargains or deals and end up with a peak power 7k rpm setup in a daily driver that never sees those rpm 😂 I over laid this with an older 4.8 stock dyno of his and it hardly ever made less hp or tq anywhere and made more from 5500rpm up there’s gains from 60-80hp I’d be happy with a Hi ram on a stockish daily driver 😂

I would have also run it with the stock fan for the first run.

it’s incredible how much power is lost, you could run a small car with that power. an electric water pump takes a maximum of 200W- 0.27Hp; steerig pump 15-55Amp @13V so maximum 800W - only 1Hp, Antermator conversion rate 0.5- so a total of 2000W, only 2.68 Hp. You lose 16.32Hp on alternator fan, belt/pulley, potentially worse efficiency waterpump (compared to electrical mostly due to worst blades design).

Just curious. How would you feel about doing this same test again for the 5.3 liter and 6.0 liter engine. I wonder if the bigger engine would have the same amount of difference or if the increased torque of the larger engines would minimize the parasitic losses of the accessories.

An interesting test that I can think of is how much power does an alternator rob at different amperage. Between a larger fuel pump and electric fan 40 amps is not uncommon. How much hp is 10 amps worth vs 50 amps.

Richard, Shouldn't there be a simple formula for if you were running AC ?? A very good to know thing for the regular Joe to know? Guesstimation??

I heard that the cams between the 4.8 5.3 and the 6.0 from 02 to 06 are the same. Is this true by chance??? I have a 4.8 in my 07 classic and installing a 6.0 from 04 out of a hummer. How much more power do you think I'll get both motors are stock. Thank you

Could you do something on 6L80 torque converter failing on Chevrolet does a billet converter make a difference

No real world gulf coast a/c?

Hmmm cool test but would have made far more interesting to have the alternator pulling a 50A load

Putting a Turbo on my 4.8. What rods and pistons would you suggest?

Would the parasitic loss be a smaller % on a boosted motor?

Lock turbocharger and test how much power it robs compared to same engine without turbo.

Would hooking a battery up to the alternator while on the dyno cause a charge drag?

Not to be a stickler but alt was not drawing power so spinning it did nothing ans PS was not restricted so spinning it did little.

Who makes that billet idler pulley?

Old school non electric cooling fans wasted more HP then anything else.. alternator under load charging and a.c probably right behind..

⚡🐜🕳️ You said power. I was here. Like all good AntipoDeans.

Ya and run them with a transmission and an axle and tires because if you have those losses it doesn't matter if you are making 500hp at the crank but if you only have 350hp at the wheels you only have 350hp

JUST BOOST IT!

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

You forgot a fan

obligatory comment ........... here

Real hp test should be done in a car. For true hp rating. 😂😂

Als erstes: es wird 10 Minuten lang über Dinge gesprochen und auch wiederholt die mit dem Test und dem Titel NICHTS zu tun haben, Nockenwelle, Federn, Timing usw.. Zweitens: der Test ist verfälscht, es soll so aussehen als wenn die Wasserpumpe viel Leitung frei setzt, um richtig zu messen müßte man aber die elektrische Energie (Lichtmaschine) dazu rechnen. Die Testidee ist gut, die Ausführung nicht.

Dood! Like, where's the six-blade fiberglass metalflake engine fan, dood? In the 70's, we could pick up 25 horsepower with one of those. Fer sher. Geeez, and you call this real world? I'd be shaking my head if I could actually feel it. Oh the colors. Dood!

FIRST

Isn't this how a manufacturer would run it? Fully dressed?

Accessories>electric water pump..

Still not real world because you would be having some drag on that alternator. Also you would have under hood temperatures to deal with But it will be interesting to see, considering you always get so much more power out of things than they are ever rated for

A 15 WHP (maybe 20+ in the car) loss/gain is nothing to be sarcastic about.. my Camaro loses 25 WHP with the NPP exhaust closed. On equal 60 foots that is worth 1/10th and 2 MPH. I’ve got a rear wing worth another 1/10th and 2 MPH. Knowing these things matters to people. My C5 saw a slightly larger difference than the Camaro by me accidentally pulling the belt off before a run. The Camaro has no PS pump, but the C5 does. Oh, and that pump alone is also worth 10 WHP on its own in case anyone is wondering.

Accounting for belt and alternator inefficiencies, a 140amp alternator, at full output, will use a little over 4hp.

America 🇺🇸💪🏼🦅🛠️