It CAN’T be. There’s no source material for Star Wars.-K.K.

Palpatine's return in TROS was clearly a rip-off of Dark Empire in the worst possible way, and the way Oscar Isaac says the line "Somehow Palpatine returned"...He looked so dead inside and sounded angry.

Thx to JJ Abrams, everytime I hear the word "somehow" I have to think about this stupid explanation.

I Will say this I prefer dark empire 100 percent more than the rise of Skywalker

Somehow, Thor returns...

Interesting seeing it seems to be pretty much the same, yet somehow still better. Leia actually has at least a throwaway line that she trained with Luke when she uses the Force... Palpatine's return is at least somewhat explained... and despite NOT having a group "dedicated to keeping canon consistent" like Disney SUPPOSEDLY does, it actually seems consistent with the previous stories.

Thor, you and I went through that journey at the same point in our lives.

Back in 1996, Dark Empire made me a hardcore Star Wars fan. I bought a lot of toys and even designed a lot of my own Star Wars ships. I am definitely looking forward to you reviewing the rest of the series. 👍

As a 13 year old, I was absolutely aghast that the Emperor was back, the truest form of evil in any universe, evil found way. Luke, who just took down an AT-AT like it was joke to him, turned. I was hooked, I needed to know how this ended. Similarly confused by the continuity but strange time line of events with Heir to the Empire

While I don't like his return in the EU either, at least the Dark Empire version managed to somewhat justify itself by using the situation to advance Luke's character development.

What always made me facepalm about the sequel trilogy is that I wrote in 1987 when I was 7 years old my own sequel to return of the Jedi in a note book. A hand written (with the help of my mother) chapter on one page and a drawing to illustrate that chapter on the page next to it (I still have in my head the clumsy drawing of Jabba that looked like a poo). It was my version of episode 7. With all my childish naivety. Some of the characters from the OT that were dead were not anymore (Vador, Jabba and you guessed it Palpatine). And because I was a child and was mostly aping the OT rather that inventing stuff the empire was back again building yet another Death Star like weapon called “Planet Rumba” (don’t ask me why 😂) That last name aside, by 1987 I had all the major plot elements of the Disney trilogy 30 years ahead. Since I was not a genius kid. Those involved in crafting the story of the Disney trilogy must be 7 years old. Man I should really dig that notebook from my mother’s attic. Maybe there were even more matching material between my episode 7 and the sequels. 😂

I was able to read the original comic story in a Barnes & Noble. I have to say it’s a great story. Also, it’s really cool that they showed Luke Skywalkers strength as a Jedi. On top of that the original 3 characters had a major role. They weren’t pushed aside, (which is what happened in the sequels). The rise of Skywalker did a terrible job with the Emperor clone idea & the movie disrespected the Skywalker/Solo family.

It was 10 years after Yavin, not Endor. So it would put it the year after Heir to the Empire.

I'll never forget seeing that panel for the first time where Luke knelt before the Emperor and said "My father's destiny is now my own" My blood was boiling hotter than the rivers of Mustafar and, to this day, I've never touched that comic again and prayed that I'd never have to see anything like it again. Until TROS lol....

Can u pick Thor’s list of worst TROS lines for a poll? “They fly now”, “somehow palpatine returned”, “rey Skywalker”, “I am all the Sith”, or the character Poe Dameron.

Gosh I remember these comics, still have them along with the entire Star Wars comics series from Marvel from the late 70s through the mid 80s. I’m 52 years old and have been a fan since it came out

It’s hard to get past the slap dash manner that he was brought back in that travesty of a movie that I can’t even force my fingers to type the title of it. The backtracking of how he survived implosion only makes this that much more worse.

This is an awesome recap, please keep doing this

I have to say Dark Empire has to be one of the EU additions I hated. Even back then I remember thinking that it undid Lukes story, only to resolve itself again. Thankfully Dark Horse made some amazing works after Dark Empire.

I would really enjoy it if you discussed legends (or canon apart from the movies and shows) more. Please make more videos like this.

Dark Empire was interesting when I first saw it, please continue this look back on it!!!

I watched the motion comics of dark empire and i was greatly invested in the story.I even got dark empire luke and clone palpatine's action figures, off ebay.

PLEASE do more of these! I enjoyed the heck out of it!

I'd find it useful if you'd keep going... I've read dozens of EU novels, played many of the games, but apart from some of the Marvel comics that came out during the years of the original films, not delved into that part of the EU. I've heard mention of the resurrected Emperor, Luke's fall etc but I don't know how it fits.

I never read those comics…so when you said the issue ended with “somehow I returned,” I literally said “no f’ing way” outloud🤣 I was drinking I would have spit it out .

My first EU book after the Revenge of the sith novel was the Legacy of the Jedi series. I was a little confused but was still having fun reading them. I was excited for the new releases befire Disney took over. Another series that I read growing up was The Last of The Jedi, a story that is very similar to Cal Kestice and Starkiller. Awesome books.

Please, keep going, Thor!

This was pretty cool, thanks Thor. I have never read any of the comics(to many pictures, not enough words for me.) so I was unaware of this story line.

Hey Thor. Pardon the repost, but i feel this question fits well considering the video subject. What are the minimum amount of edits you would make to "fix" the sequels. Lucas made edits to his films years after release to better fit his vision, so Disney could do the same, and perhaps should to polish their trilogy. An idea I'd consider is making is having Snoke be Palpatine in disguise. Palpatine would have used this body from after the battle of Endor. When he is killed by Kylo, edit in a blue spirit or small explosion of energy hinting at the spirit transfer. In the crawl of the next film, hint that klyo suspects his master was not truly dead and is searching for him to finish the job instead of Palpatine just announcing himself. And the end of the battle of exagol, have a resistance member mentions they have found and destroyes the Palpatine cloning lab, suggesting he has no way to get back again. I believe these edits would smooth out many problems I have with the films. What are your thoughts?

Thanks for covering this, and yes I would like if you covered some more comics/books. Though nothing is canon to me in which Palpatine returns, in any way.

The difference between Dark Empire and TROS is that Dark Empire was creative, visually great, and enjoyable.

Hey, Thor! Yes, please continue this series on the Expanded Universe!

Oh, nice!! Finally, someone has made this connection!

one interesting thing about dark empire(and something that people who try to denfend the sequels by using it as argument fail to consider) is a comic whose plot aged VERY poorly, dark empire was launched in 1991 a whole 8 years before the phantom menace and the introduction of the prophecy of the chosen one who will bring balance to the force

Dark Empire was the first SW-content outside of the OT I came into contact with and it basically served as my introduction to the Expanded Universe, so it holds a special place in my heart. And I absolutely love the Artwork (of Parts 1 and 2, anyway, Part 3 not so much) Anyone else find it worth mentioning that the Events of DE, while they were frequently referenced in Novels from the 90s, were barely even mentioned post-Prequels, as if the Story Group just decided to sweep it under a rug?

Definitely enjoyed this. Would love a regular review of comic books too!

Dark Empire was one of the two EU materials which got me into the larger Star Wars universe with the other being The Star Wars Clone Wars Microseries. Really love it, made Luke my favorite character, and I will never give it up as one of my favorite EU stories! Would love to see you cover Dark Empire more, especially Boba Fett's return and partnership with Dengar since this is where both elements of Fett were cemented. In fact, I wouldn't mind you doing the same for the Tales of the Jedi and Jedi vs. Sith comics as well.

Would love for this to continue. I'm a big EU fan but have only ever heard bits and pieces regarding Dark Empire. (And for the record, didn't really like what I heard lol) So it would be great to get the whole run-down, especially from someone so knowledgeable about Star Wars!

Funny how it’s basically: Mandoverse (Lucasfilm Universe) = Thrawn Trilogy (EU) Sequel Trilogy = Dark Empire (EU) Rey Movie = Jedi Academy (EU)

Yes please keep going Thor!

Hey Thor. Yes I do love this. I’ve never read these. I’m enjoying this a lot. Please do the rest of this series if you can.

Thanks this was a nice slimmed down version of dark empire. I read the heir to the empire series. Never read Dark Empire. Of course somehow PALPATINE returned.

Please do continue this series. I haven't read "Dark Empire" & am very much interested to know how it went & how it parallels "TRoS".

Cam Kennedy's art was always so good.

I’m trying to reread the EU too. Started with Truce at Bakura in January. It’s so refreshing to be back in that world. The EU before Disney, and before even the prequels, is the Star Wars I grew up with and it feels like meeting up with an old friend.

I mean I thought they did and I defended ep 9 for a while because of that. But then they admitted they lied and It was never in the plan for daddy palps to come back :/, so…. Edit: I do really enjoy how Dark Empire ties in with Heir. I can only imagine the thrill of a shared Star Wars universe back in the day :). Kinda reminds me of how Palpatine references Plagueis in the Tarkin Novel

Please, please do more content like this.

Enjoyed the Dark Empire talk! Please keep it going!

I never got a chance to read Dark Empire. But, I could have sworn Luke turning was initially him gambling that he could fake his fall (or better put moderate it) so he could get close to Palpatine's clone facility and then kill him there. But, he fails to realize that the Dark Side is not something you can touch without being tainted. And yes, he returns to the light side... I mean Jedi Academy was right after the comics (and it was very good).

Haven't never explored the EU. This is my first introduction to it and I am deeply intrigued. Thanks Thor I've been looking for this kind of stuff for a long time from you.

The EU didn’t shit all over Luke and his legacy and then demonize us for not liking that….Yeah…looking at you R.J. And TLJ…Never forgetting or forgiving….

Dark Empire is 10 years ABY, not after Endor. I wanted to see that scene of Luke pushing over an AT-AT on the big screen so bad when I read this, and still do.

I recall that this story was referenced often in the EU books that I read. However, I never did actually read this comic, partly because I was never really into comics and also because I only read EU content that was available in my local public library growing up. So it's nice that you make these videos of this comic and giving us the synopsis of what happens. So please by all means continue with these videos of this comic. Oh and by the way, I do believe was also around 13 years old when I read the Thrawn Trilogy (it was around the time when the Star Wars Special Editions were coming out, which had rekindled my interest in Star Wars).

I don't think they intended to copy it. If the intention was gratuitous Legends reference Duel of the Fates was already bristling with those. Instead the suits that had lost all faith to letting creatives run amok and probably didn't think Trevorrov's script (the one that has Rey denounce Luke and the Jedi by extension and canonize the Grey at the climax) was a good idea likely engaged in a similar thought process as Lucas did when he suggested Palpatine's return, and came to a similar conclusion. If they had intentionally copied Dark Empire, they likely would have also copied how Palpatine's resurrection works, and how it allows him to be defeated once and for all. Instead we get a very clumsy handwave, a line referencing RotS and a thousand memes about Palpatine having overtaken Rey.

Please keep this going🙏

Love this style of video Thor

I'd like to see more!

I also read Heir to the Empire when I was 13!

I believe his return in the EU was because Lucas didn’t want to let them confirm other “modern day“ Darkside users. I would also love to see you continue this recap. I personally found them in graphic novel form and picked up the entire run.

I honestly would have had Snoke the villain of Ep 9 Reveal Snoke as a Sith scientist that was working on the transfer-to-clone project for Palpatine, but the Emperor died on the Death Star before the project was completed. Snoke continued working on it after that and succeeded in it, explaining how he's alive after his death in Ep 8. You'd at least have this being a "legacy of Palpatine" for that connection without just hamfisted return of Palpatine. Hell, for that matter, you could even toy with the tease that Palpatine returned and have him appear on a hologram message Snoke is using to essentially convince the galaxy it's the Emperor.

Great video

Correction: the start of the EU was Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the first EU book written for Star Wars

If you’re going to keep going with this, and should you finish it, I recommend looking up how the EU/Legends of the future retroactively conceived/viewed the events of “Dark Empire”, especially from after the release of the prequels. Let’s just say the retcons come in various sizes.

Pretty sure I discovered this book at a similar time in the 90s, except it was at mgm studios and I went on a solid SW run of buying models and all of the issues that were available. This still holds as the best series for me in the last 30 years. Art work, writing, just solid.

Nice video. Please continue to do more of them.

The Marvel Star Wars comics were bonkers, my brother had a few issues. He had the one were Boba Fett came back. The Sarlacc Pit spat him out and he had amnesia. By chance Han and Luke are on Tattooine and run into him. I forgot most of the story but I believe it ends with Boba falling back into the Pit.

Hay Thor... What do you think? Just a couple of weeks ago, I had the chance to read the original Thrawn series (1990 versions) for the first time. Once I started, I couldn't stop. I really enjoyed these books and found myself getting excited about Star Wars again. As I read each page, I couldn’t help but think where Star Wars would be at today if Disney had just followed what had already been written in the expanded universe. So, what do you think? Would fans have been happy if episodes 7 to 9 had been true to the Dark Empire and Thrawn series? Sometimes I think directors and script writers place too much emphasis on surprises, subverting expectations, and leaving audiences shocked rather than on just telling a great story. If Disney had followed the Thrawn series and the direction of the expanded universe books, would audiences have been happy with that, or would they be left yearning for more surprises? For me, I don't really don't care if I already know how a movie will end; I just want a great story experience.

Both the Aftermath series and the X-Wing series have Wedge develop an affection for a woman who's husband had been captured by the Empire and brainwashed by it's (female!) leader. And that woman is then forced to choose between her husband and what is right during the climax of the novel in which they returned. Those parallels always make me laugh.

Really loved this video Keep going haven't read this comics only got information about them during the years. Do you suggest that JJ used source material behind KK's back 🤔 😂

Brother Thor, I just started rereading The Jedi Academy Trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson. Synchronicity or no? Lol Good Night from Pueblo!

I like the episode and Id like to hear the rest of the story covered by you. Staw Wars comics were not available in my country (or at least my vicinity) when I was a boy, and when they finally were I didn't enjoy comics anymore, i prefered books so anything SW that was in comics form is lost to me unfortunately, so Im glad I can hear about it here from you

I read a hodge podge of the comics that my library had (Tales of the Jedi over and over), plus the Essential Guides. Digging this new series, hope you keep it up

"Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There's no source material. We don't have comic books. We don't have 800-page novels." -K.K. Oh okay, so you see Thor, it is just a simple coincidence that Lucasfilm came up with the exact same plot...

Ahhh but remember, Kathleen Kennedy says that there is apparently no source material.

My favorite Star Wars comic - I love that story and think it still works - better than anything Disney made. Funny enough I bought my copies of Dark Empire when I was visiting Disney World... Ironic... I like how the comic basically says that Luke joined Palpatine because he wanted to understand his father... I think that still resonates. Down the road I'd love to hear your thoughts about Crimson Empire - still one of my favorite Dark Horse comic series. The audio version of it is still a lot of fun too!

This was the book, the story, that made me dive into the EU. I have a very special place in my heart for this story. And the scene where Luke is smashing the cloning tubes is one of my favorites

It’s also funny how the Ahsoka show almost feels like it’s reaching back to heir to justify tros. Maybe they should’ve just used heir & dark empire from the start. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I think it was Jar Jar Abrams and his writing team that pulled from Dark Empire to write the story of TROS, not JJ himself. Remember, Chris Terrio was also one of the writers and he wrote BvS and Justice League, both of which took from established source material only to have a butchered result. This was something that many of us observing the news and reveals predicted that whatever was going to be released was going to suck.

Loved this Thor - definitely would love to see you cover more EU! 😁

And so Thor's deluge back into the EU. I welcome more content like this one.

I never thought Luke was meant to be duped by Palps, but understood that he could do more good controlling the forces of the reborn emperor whilst also learning his weaknesses. It wasn’t that Palps persuaded him, Luke was devastated by the knowledge that he couldn’t fight let alone defeat Palps and his new forces anywhere else. He was going to have to suffer the Darkside and learn from Palps whilst trying to mitigate innocent lives lost and it was going to be hell. Giving in to that knowledge is what Palps felt and thought was Luke giving in to the darkside…but then I could be reading too much into a comic lol

The fact that behind the scenes Zahn and the writers of Dark Empire were in disagreement over timeline and yet once Zahn won that his story would be set first the comic still fits into the timeline shows the care people had for the franchise. Other EU trilogies reference Dark Empire a lot even though it is one of the weaker EU stories especially after the Prequels came out. I think I have only read the second chapter of it, mainly staid with the books and games. But because of all the references from later books I felt like I knew most of the story.

I loved the art style so much back when I was a kid.

Yep, to this day I've always had disdain for Dark Empire for turning Luke into the galaxy's biggest idiot for the sake of the early 90s Edgy McEdgelord vibes, especially when the ending of the original series just had him learn the same lesson he'd already learned in ROTJ. Even though this time Leia teamed up with him to out-magic Palpatine 2.0 in a Super Saiyan Force throwdown, all it did was reinforce the fact that fighting fire with fire, or dancing with the devil, accomplishes nothing in the end. It felt like a waste of time and paper just for the purpose of publishing a "cool-looking" (though I personally find that questionable, I never liked the artwork either) grimdark story using the main SW characters in an ill-fitting way. The silver lining was Leia becoming much more of a Jedi, but I didn't like that happening at the cost of making her brother look stupid.

While not a comics reader, I had heard about this story where Palpatine returned a long time ago. My reaction then was the same as it was to it happening in TROS; it undercuts Anakin's sacrifice in ROTJ.

I dont necessarily like dark empire either. They both make lore sense (cloning + essence transfer), but the main difference for me is simple. Rise of Skywalker actively undermines previous Star Wars. The whole trilogy basically ignores the prequels except for TLJ, but TROS actively undermines the originals too. The only positive is that retroactively, shows like Mando and the Bad Batch get to weave something genuinely interesting in showing how much planning he put into this, but even then its a shallow victory bc of what it leads to. The suspense of tryingnto stop him would be one thing, but we know the behind the scenes story (there was no planning) so even that seems a bít unsatisfying. I think. I said on another video. If disney had purchased lucasfilm. And THEN come outnwoth a show like Mando, and THEN started PLANNING OUT a trilogy based on story threads and audience response after a season or 2, they could have made essentially the same story with a few big changes work very, very well. Then the emporers return is a big reveal rather than feeling like they pulled it out of someones ass, if they even choose to go that direction at that point Dark Empire, i fnd kinda cartoony, generic, the empirenis just like a 90s supervillain rather than the cunning character thebprequels made him. But again, this was before thế prequels, thats perfectly fine. Its a fun story and it put the legacy characters, especially luke, in very interesting situations Ive wayched TROS twice, about 4 years apart. I hate what it did to the lore, but at the end of the day, Ian McDoarmid does know hownto play the characyer. I found myself smiling every time he was onscreen

I like how the Dark Empire was the next step in the galactic empire. They were going to make the dark side a state religion and was building super weapons to force systems to convert. The Death Star was the first step in this plan but the rebellion happened and screwed everything up.

Yeah! I read Dark Empire back in the day. The comic book was excellent as I read both it and the Zahn books while graduating from high school - the same high school as Adam Driver (but earlier than him). But in my opinion these concepts from a comic book - Luke falling to the Dark Side and Palpatine returning - don't translate that well to the big screen as it did in the comic because the comic had the Thrawn Trilogy in between, and there was absolutely nothing in-between ROTJ and The Force Awakens except for 32 years as far as the story of these characters. You could take or leave the Dark Empire, because a lot of that wasn't necessarily adopted by George, and it just felt like an interesting twist - a choose your own adventure or 'what if tale', so to speak. But I felt like if it's in the movie, then it's Gospel: not only is it endorsed by George, it's the truth. When The Last Jedi came out and I almost walked out of the theater during my first viewing, I did think about this comic again, and then especially after The Rise of Skywalker. I felt that we really needed more of a developed story from the Original Series cast as far what their lives looked like 5-10 years after ROTJ before we could throw them into the frying pan once again. So, if Disney actually used the Dark Empire either consciously or unconsciously as source material, then they did so without putting themselves within the standpoint of the 18 (or less) year old kid who lived and breathed all of this stuff at the time. In our minds, we had the Thrawn Trilogy and we had the Dark Empire comics, and we could enjoy all of that stuff without really hedging our bets either way on what we thought of as cannon: George would choose the right way if he ever made more Star Wars, because he had the vision, and everything George did was awesome and would blow away anything we could ever think of that was in a comic book or book series. THAT was my point of view while being able to enjoy the comic Dark Empire. But who would have forseen that Disney would own both Marvel and Star Wars, and not bat an eyelash at the prospect of taking concepts like this from a comic to try to create their own thing? LOL Hindsight is 20/20.

I remember thinking after reading Dark Empire as a kid/teen being kinda confused and just thought, huh, well that was interesting. Its worth a read.

I think Palpatine tricking Luke into using the dark side would've only worked on like episode 5 Luke, not older. Unless force users in Star Wars are really like X-Men, and Palpatine's special ability is Force Conviction. That would explain a lot about prequels.

All the Dark Empire inspiration came from Chris Terrio, who is pretty well-read on the EU.

Hard to imagine they pulled a Dark Empire of Dark Empire. They made a worse movie out of one of the worst arcs of Star Wars. Dark Empire still rules tho just because of Luke’s drip

I listened to the audio dramatization of this on tape, along with Dark Empire 2 and Crimson Empire and I loved them. Listened to them time after time and so much of it implied a dark past to the Jedi and the clone wars as well as hope for a brighter future that they could all fight for. I wanted more and more of it. Between that and the references in the Thrawn trilogy with how deep and mysterious the lore was I think it ruined the prequels for me when they came out. I almost have 3 versions of star wars in my head now. The OT into the early legends stories, the prequels into the larger EU, and the Disney era. Funny enough, I think the reason I love Andor so much is it feels like the early EU and fits with things like Dark Empire well.

Really cool seeing pre-lore coherent Star Wars. This is where writers of today would seemingly thrive since there's not important canon they have to adhere to aside from the movies, and at this point there's only 3. Tho I feel like they'd still complain about adhering to that much

I would like to hear your take on the complete Dark Empire trilogy 1, 2 and Empires End. I remember picking this book up mid 90s right before Shadows of the Empire dropped.

I read Dark Empire back in the day and reread it after TROS. It's entertaining but the character motivations don't make much sense. When the EU was cancelled ten years ago, supporters of the decision justified it on the grounds that Dark Empire and Jedi Prince were bad stories. It's funny because TROS is essentially a combination of those two.

DE is not 10ys. after Endor, its 6 years. Don't forget that DE was announced in June 1990 by Marvel, to be released that Fall, and being worked on at least in 89. While HttE came out in May 1991. Dark Horse eventually getting the SW license and finally released DE in December 91, After HttE because of the Zahn v Veitch situation, where Zahn didn't want to tie his novels to a comic series. Which delayed DE and Veitch was asked to adapt the story to take place after the Thrawn Trilogy, thus 6 years after Jedi, 1 year after the eventually released Last Command. You always imagined the CW being as awesome as the original multimedia project event is, not like Filoni's weak remake. DE is just awesome and as epic as HttE, just incredible. Having recently read the Book of the Sith, I must say I found the section by "Plagueis" just awful. As bad as the Jedi Path book, reason being the BS from the prequels with Lucas miditrash idea. As for what I call The Disney Trash Trilogy, well nobody with brains and knowledge of Real Star Wars can deny that it is absolute and pure plagiarism. Not homage, nor tribute, nor inspired, just plagiarism. Its funny that the most hated of those films happens to be the most original. LOL! HttE and DE are just epic, while The Disney Trash Trilogy, is nothing, at best, and trash at worst.

Personally I’ve never liked the idea of palpatine returning from the dead but the difference between the EU and Disney way is that the EU actually made sense of it and it was entertaining, the Disney movie did none of that and now they have the audacity to make up for their blunder by copying the dark empire story explanation.

Would love to see more videos like this 😊

It was dumb when it was done first but it was just a comic book so you can just ignore it since it doesn’t matter but doing it in ep. 9 of the third trilogy of movies over many decades is without any explanation, build up or a single reason it’s even possible or logical is insane