“We had to visualise how the line names would be used in daily life” Maybe didn’t visualise enough: “Yeah I’m riding the Suffragette!”

I just love how Geoff keeps connecting with people who are so instrumental to everything surrounding TfL, but who maybe never realised how much their daily business is fascinating to tens of thousands of people! Thanks for spotlighting this brilliant designer, Geoff!

geoff your interview technique has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years. well done, excellent piece

I still can't forgive them for not adopting goblin

Geoff nerding out on design for 20 minutes. I'm all here for it.

Fascinating to learn just how much effort goes into it. TfL takes design VERY seriously - and quite rightly

11:43 “that’s why we’re not going to have a Mildmay roundel”… agree, which is exactly why Crossrail should’ve been kept for roundels and the system name, with Elizabeth line being the line name. The current setup makes no sense!

Finally more background behind the change.

I've really enjoyed your slightly longer recent videos. Thank you for them. More of these longer form interviews please with people who have something interesting to say. They're fascinating.

Excellent detailed video. Brilliant explanations for everything going on. As a graphic designer by trade (a long time ago) They've done well in trying not to have much colour clash on a map that is beginning to look like playschool plasticine worms! There'll always be some controversy about line naming which will probably ruffle feathers on those with right-leaning sentiments. Good job by TfL and your presentation on the subject. 👍

Outstanding Geoff. As a cartographer, I fully appreciate the effort needed to achieve this along with the other wider tfl map complexities.

‘Which one would you keep orange?’ The Windrush (former East London) line seems like the obvious choice.

The trams were originally different colours when it launched in 2000 Yellow was Wimbledon to Elmers End Red was Beckenham Junction to West Croydon Green was New Addington to West Croydon The separate coulors disappeared around 2008 when the routes were restructured & TFL took over the running of the service.

Re. white as a line colour: this was actually done years ago, when the Underground map only featured a couple of British Rail lines. The North London Line, which was more or less treated as an honourary tube line at the time, was shown in white, but outlined with a thin black line, so you could actually see it. I always thought the trick worked surprisingly well. And talking of how the colours work under different types of lighting - is it me, or is the circulating area at the top of the stairs at Edgware Road lit very oddly, with a weird greenish light? I've got good colour vision, but to me the tube map colours look very strange under that lighting.

I’m all set with the new names and colours, except the lack of orange and the missed opportunity for Goblin.

My son Aaran - a huge Geoff Marshall fan - wanted a new paper tube map so we travelled into London and went to Highbury and Islington to get our own new maps. Love your work, Geoff.

Love these behind the scenes Videos great insights. Greetings from Germany

Great to hear this Geoff. The detail on how they choose line colours is very welcome. However, the current design of TfL's actual lines almost seems intended to cause confusion. It is a real missed opportunity that TfL continue to only have 3 (meaningful) categories of line: - solid: underground. Good. Everyone can understand this. - cased with occasional solid bits: mainline rail service not run by TfL. Oddly specific but at least this is clear. - cased: literally every other sort of rail transport in the capital. What a mess. If the pretence that this is a successor to the Beck Tube Map is to be continued, it needs to clearly: - show that the DLR & trams are a similar level of service - show that the Overground is it's own type of service - show that Elizabeth Line/Crossrail is a distinct type of service (perhaps also show Thameslink in the same style as it's a similar level of service, at least within zones 1-2). TfL need to look seriously at how Paris do this - thicker lines for bigger trains. If they aren't prepared to do this, then at least make the Elizabeth Line distinct from the Overground/DLR/Trams. The (very helpful) publicity describing CrossElizPurpRail as a new type of service for London is totally undermined by the branding.

At least the Goblin is goblin green.

Geoff, my 8 year old son has had a tough time recently, but remains your number 1 fan. We travelled to Highbury and Islington to track down the guard mentioned about this map and get the our own paper new tube maps. We'd love you to post more about your future public engagements so we can come and share experiences. We've also recently gone to Ash Vale ticket office to demand a ticket to North Camp! (10 min 30 sec walk)

Very interesting video with fascinating interviews. And very professional production standards, I thought the tease section at the top was great, thank you!

Thank you for the the video Geoff it was very interesting. ❤

As a deutan colourblind man (4.5% of the population of the UK to varying degrees) I can not tell at all the difference between the Lioness and trams on the map, nor the Liberty and Weaver lines. What’s somehow even more irritating is that the Elizabeth line which is one I use fairly regularly now looks indistinguishable at a glance to the aforementioned Liberty and Weaver lines. Really disappointing to see that TFL haven’t done more research into this issue and explored other non colour related ways to distinguish the lines. Luckily for me I use the underground all the time and very rarely need the map anymore. Still disappointing.

What a great video. Good information. Awesome to hear from the people who designed the whole thing. Thanks Geoff

Now I want to ask about Triangle maps!

Excellent video - thanks Geoff

Having dealt closely with the Graphic Support team where I work for years, a lot of what John said I have heard before but it is interesting to see it applied in a different context. A lot of thought goes into this sort of thing but sadly many people don't appreciate the complexities involved. P.S. I also liked John's 'man in a pub' outfit!

Still can’t say I’m sold on some of the line names, but giving them their own colours and distinct lines on the map is a fascinating process. Expanding a map is a tricky business. If you want to see it done wrong, take a look at how Transport Scotland tried to expand the Strathclyde Passenger Transport rail map to take in the entirety of central Scotland. Under SPT, the Glasgow radial lines all had colours and names, that was lost with the absorption into ScotRail. The consistent use of angles was lost and some weird connections appeared with the creation of Airdrie Bathgate and the inclusion of Carstairs to Edinburgh services. The map of course serves its basic purpose, but the design isn’t nice.

Absolutely brilliant! Thanks for that!

I need to know about the triangle map!!! Genuinely fascinating insight. Thank you.

Awesome that TfL gave you so much time and just in general seems to make people available to you.

wow Geoff - well done on what could have been a dull subject turning it into a fun video

No Goblin? Come on TFL!! Here are my ideas (Do not steel): - Goblin: Gospel Oak - Barking Riverside - Watford D.C: Euston - Watford - North London: Richmond / Clapham Junction - Stratford - Brunel: Highbury & Islington - West Croydon / Crystal Palace / New Cross / Clapham Junction - Trenorth: Liverpool Street - Chingford / Cheshunt / Enfield Town - Rominster: Romford - Upminster

The Elizebeth line should be a larger line on the map, similar to what they do with the RER in Paris. I'd probably do the same with the Thameslink as well to signify these being mainline trains.

Thank you! As a junior designer and train enthusiast, this is so great!

Tube lines are solid, other non-Tube lines are hollow just like a tube would be. Awesome job, gents! Joking aside, London is still showing the world how it’s done. Salutations from this Istanbulite in Toronto.

In which Geoff Marshall is handed a tube map *by the mayor* and is far more excited about the map

Fantastic film, Geoff. Full of information of how things are worked through to the final map.

They should have used the Goblin line

Took a bit to find the map on the TfL site. TfL->London Overground->London Overground line naming->London Overground’s new look->Tube map with new designs It definitely makes the TfL overground routes look more of a legitimate part of the system rather than a reluctant add-on.

A fascinating insight.

Brilliant video

Next step shall be using shape-dotted lines and patterns like the national railways, and thicknesses. I think it’s great TfL makes these maps accessible for people with colourblindness (like myself). I haven’t seen it in full detail yet but it makes my excited

Geoff what an absolutely fantastic, interesting and fun video. I even watched it in 24 degree C around a pool in Gran Canaria. Call me a geek or what? One of my other favourite channels has got me hunting for tiles on the underground now I will be looking for the new colour schemes . What fun!

where can I get the tote bag at 0:50? It looks great!

Not exactly the best line names (Bring back GOBLIN!) but it will be easier for people like tourists or those who have just moved here to get around easier or know what part of the Overground is experiencing disruption

Geoff, I'm so chuffed about the level of access you got. Such an informative video. Keep up the good work! 👌

I will call the overground lines by these names as long as I live: North London Line (Stratford to Richmond / Clapham Junction) Watford DC Line (Euston to Watford Junction) East London Line (Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction / New Cross / Crystal Palace / West Croydon) Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside Line (GOBRLIN) Lea Valley Line (Liverpool Street to Chingford, Enfield Town and Cheshunt) Romford to Upminster Line.

Thanks

The two questions I have for John are: ❓ Now that so many lines are cased, and so many stations are spread out, can we look at a way to make the connector markings between station blobs more distinct from cased lines? ❓ What's the triangle map?

Cracking video Geoff. Detailed explanations, excellent questions and people who care about what they do. Thanks for your consistently high-quality content.

Such a cool video Geoff. I absolutely love the new names, it’s great that there’s a lot of our history behind those names. As a designer, the interview and deep dive into the design process was really fascinating.

That's an interesting look inside London public transport map design and color design. I can say as being colorblind, I have some difficulties to distinguish colors on the London tube map. To know the name of the line you want to go on, you have to check the index on the right, and find the line on the map with the same color. Especially variants of green and brown make it difficult for me. The Paris underground map is easier. Every line there has a number and it is on the map on each end of the line.

This is the video we've been waiting for. Nice one Geoff.

*Really faantastic interview with John & Julie Geoff as always...thanks for making us a lovely video!* 1 question I have always wondered is regarding the Thameslink - in that it was added to help customers travel suring the Covid-19 lockdown with more Step-free accessible routes & then to aid the Northern Line's closure in 2021 whilst the Battersea Extension was about to open - so why is it still here in 2024?

I will always refer to the Barking line as the GOBLIN no matter what and I’m also one of those people who think that these new names for the Overground lines are a bad decision as it will indeed confuse people which route is which

The trams used to have three, and later four, route numbers with different shades of green, but these were later don away with.

Can you do a map vid ( with Foreman ?) on the back of the A-Z (and Diaries) black and white map evolutions - might be tricky to track them all down as I dont think there has ever been a national repostiory of diary editions as books or periodicals , but is each iteraiton licenced by London Transport and thus in the muesum or commerical archives ?

Absolutely loved this; design, colour, history - no notes! 👌👌👌

I, myself, will still refer to it as the Overground. Except for Euston to Watford, which will always be the "DC" lines.

My question is, will the station signal and panels all be changed to the new individual line colours? Am thinking about Whitechapel where there are 3 different tones of orange on the platforms!

Is the overground maps available at overground stations?

Very good

Excellent in depth video with loads of interesting details - great work Geoff

17:20 how did "yeah im on the suffragette" survive this part

That tube map is cool!

Some of the Weed (I mean Weaver) line waiting rooms have been taken over as impromptu coffee shops. Seriously though, what a great job Jon has!

As a professional cartographer, I found that fascinating. Thanks

So what are they gonna use for crossrail 2? Because the shade of yellow for crossrail 2 and the shade of yellow for the lioness line is pretty similar

Should've been Goblin for the Gospel Oak to Barking and Brunel for the East London Line. I do like the colours though.

it would be interesting to have names for the DLR too

Fascinating!

Very interesting

Here in Beijing at National Library station, three lines with different shades of green cross each other. I don't have a problem with this but I did once confuse gold with yellow on a crowded Line 10 service leaving me about 7 stops away from where I thought I was.

dunno if it would look good but feel like you could have had orange in the middle of the parrel lines that way it keeps branding the overground and makes it more distinct on the map

We need the GOBLIN!!

It'd be good if Thameslink were branded as a North/South equivalent to the Elizabeth Line

Is there anywhere we can buy one of these maps?

Incidentally this is reminiscent of the Berlin system map: The U-Bahn lines have had line colours assigned to them since the 1920s that are unchanged until today, but the S-Bahn's publications have always depicted their system in one colour, mostly green. Only when there were new designs launched in 1984 in West Berlin integrating the two (and extensively expanded after reunification in 1990) did the S-Bahn lines get assigned individual colours.

That's the first time I've heard "Richard of York gave battle in vain", interesting topic for a video, thanks!

Was the orange so needing to be changed/expanded? Will the public go for (and grapple with) another six(!) colours on the map? Seems like more chances of getting the wrong train and confusion compared to just plain orange... which we've all got used to.

Orange, peach and dark orange (pumpkin?) are available now so where will they get used next?

so happy TFL are working with Dovetail Games on Train Sim World now hope for more overground routes soon after this one coming this week

Good video Geoff! Nice to see London Overground getting different colours!

8:27 Considering that the "Head of Design" knows there is going to be a "big learning phase" why did TfL literally toss out all of the existing names used for these lines (like "North London Line", "East London Line", "Goblin" and "Harlequin Line") and bring in: * Two different names starting with "L" (Lioness and Liberty) that will get confused and * Two different names starting with "W" (Windrush and Weaver) that will also get confused. The Bakerloo (Baker Street and Waterloo), Victoria and Picadilly lines all have names that reflect an actual station (or two stations in the case of the Bakerloo Line) that a line goes through. It was a mistake for TfL to pick six totally abstract names.

Not just colours: colour blind people need shade difference. I like the double line idea. But this is a really compelling interview. Jon really knows his stuff. Only question is, which one is Liney McLineface?

What shoud've been done - all different shades of orange!

How u get limited map can anyone get ut

How do i get my hands on that tube map

Great video Geoff

I love Geoff not only for his content but because he’s ahead of everyone else when the merch drops. I admire that!

Will the new printed map be full A4 size so the the North & South locations have more room.

I do have a question on the trains will they still say this is a London Overground service or will it say like this is a Windrush service or suffragette and all the others?

My mom and I visited London from the US and she was very impressed with how well I navigated the Tube for us (in part because of your lovely videos Geoff). I’m happy to see some improvement in public transit somewhere in the world to make it more useable for everyone! Wish that attitude would come over stateside. (And yes I kept my mini Tube map and tourist Oyster card 😊)

Fascinating! Thank you, Geoff! I still don't like several of the new line names, but at least it wasn't just £6m paid to some bonkers consultancy firm that led to them. They were the hard-won, least-worst, compromise options wrestled from a quagmire of opinions and practical considerations. Since they need names at all, they might as well be what they are. In 50 years, it'll only be people like us who even care why the names are what they are; to most people, it just be what they always have been.

Just reading my Weekend Travel Advice email from TFL and the whole London Overground section is under one orange banner. No mention of the individual lines so I can start thinking of the Chingford line as Weaver. Unfortunately none of the names means anything to me (having lived in London for over 50 years) but then "District" doesn't either so that's not necessarily a bad thing but we do need to start absorbing this so it become familiar. The one quick and easy thing would be to start referring to the new names on emails. That must be the simplest thing to update even if it is still under the main orange banner whilst the maps are changed but sub divided into the new lines.

Try doing a colour map of all London's 500+ bus routes.

Is it possible to get (or buy) the new 2024 Tube Map before its launched? I'll be travelling to London next month a not sure when I'll come back..

I hate the names this is what i wanted (even though u cant get everything u want) Brunel Line, Lea Valley Line, Watford DC Line, GOBLIN Line, Havering Shuttle, West London Line I hope you like them

I need to get used to these names especially the Weaver and Suffragette Lines since they will be the closest Overground lines to me.