How To Check And Center (Dish) Bike Wheels & Rims
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Күн бұрынIt's important that wheels are centered in bikes and for that to happen the rim has to be correctly centered when the wheel is built (centering is also called dishing). Here how to get these things right.
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My review of Park's TS-4.2 truing stand: • Park Tool's Easy to Us...
My comprehensive wheel building lesson for beginners:
• How To Build Bicycle W...
Park Tool's self-centering truing stands
🛒 TS-4.2 Professional Wheel Truing Stand
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🛒 TS-2.3 Professional Wheel Truing Stand
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Park Tool's centering/dishing tool
🛒 WAG-4 Professional Wheel Alignment Gauge
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Timecodes
0:00 - Intro
0:10 - Why wheel centering dishing is so important
0:22 - Problems caused by wheels that aren't centered
0:41 - You always check the wheel first to see if it's the problem
1:07 - Wheels are centered over the axle not over the hub
1:33 - Checking wheel centering in the frame of your bike
2:36 - How to center wheels in a bike
3:06 - When it's time to check wheels for centering
3:25 - The best 2 tools for checking wheel centering
3:36 - You can also check wheel centering in truing stands
3:57 - Checking centering in a non-centering truing stand
5:24 - Using a dishing tool to check wheels
6:43 - What to do if there's a gap between the pointer and axle
9:29 - Where to measure on thru axle, bolt-on & QR wheels
10:13 - The process of moving the rim to center it
10:40 - Always move the rim half the distance of the gap
11:12 - The other purpose of the feet on Park's tool
12:15 - Centering the rim in the truing stand
12:39 - How to decide which spokes to turn to center/dish the rim
13:16 - Be sure to turn each nipple the exact same amount
15:03 - What to do if the wheel comes out of true
15:31 - Resetting the dishing tool/centering gauge
16:38 - Final centering check
17:59 - How to know that the wheel is done
18:22 - Final thoughts on dishing/centering wheels
18:52 - Park's dishing tool works with the wheel in their stand
19:05 - Closing comments
@indoorkangaroo3431 4 ай бұрын
I had no idea this truing stand already accounts for center….. thanks for the tip! Definitely helped with my wheel build last week
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
My pleasure indoor, glad to hear that tip was helpful with your wheel build. Thanks a lot for watching and letting me know 🙏
@itwasanewdayyesterday2586 4 ай бұрын
thank you Jim, i just built my first wheelset!
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
That's awesome to hear newday, nice job, congrats!! And thanks for watching and the great comment. Enjoy that new wheel.
@jonedmonds283 4 ай бұрын
Jim, Great video. Thanks you
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
My pleasure Jon, really appreciate you watching and the great comment. 🙏
@jonedmonds283 4 ай бұрын
Jim, you are My Wheel man. Keep up the great work. Up
@springpan 4 ай бұрын
Another great video from Sir Jim! Would you have left that last dish adjustment alone and called it "good enough", or would you have tweaked the left spokes another 1/4 turn or so? Sometimes it's difficult to leave it alone and just ride.🚲 Thanks for all you do.
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting springpan, glad you enjoyed the video! Yes, it's definitely difficult sometimes to leave it alone. Whether to chase "perfect" centering or to leave it close enough depends on how tight the spokes are getting. If a wheel is at max tension and the centering is only out by say .5mm - 1mm, you might decide to not chase perfection anymore because it's actually only out half what the dishing tool shows, so that's a tiny amount and it won't affect anything. In fact some builders choose to offset the wheel that 1mm to the side with less spoke tension - the left side of rear wheels - in order to "cheat" a little and get those left side spokes a tiny bit closer to the right side spokes in tension. That's an old trick. The wheel still centers in the frame fine and the only way to know the dish is off to the left a smidge is with a dishing tool. If it makes for a stronger wheel, it's all good. So it's really up to you what you think is best for the wheel. But some builders will only settle for perfect according to their dishing tool so there's that point of view too and I get that too. Thanks again and happy wheel building!
@cosinus_square 4 ай бұрын
Very informative as always 👍. Could you do a video on radial truing ?
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and commenting cosinus. Yes, I'll add a video on radial wheel truing to the list and if I have a good hub, rim and the right spokes I might get it done sometime relatively soon. One thing to know is that truing bike wheels is truing bike wheels - in other words, regardless of the spoke pattern the same steps are followed to true all bicycle wheels whether they use a cross spoke pattern, a radial pattern (no crosses) or a combination of both. I go into great detail in my How To Build Wheels video and the section on truing starts at this time point: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jruhqM9hmM7Gimw.html Thanks again!
@peterwillson1355 2 ай бұрын
Best way is to finish truing the wheel is when its in the frame.
@JimLangley1 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and appreciate your feedback Peter.
@leazion8658 4 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for the explanation Jim. In Argentina it is difficult to find the tool to check the center of the wheel. Is there a way to make it at home? kind regards🎉
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
My pleasure Lea. And thanks a lot for watching and the great question. Yes, you can make your own dishing/centering tool. It's basically a simple comparison tool. The most popular DIY version is in an online book about wheel building by Roger Munson. I think the whole book costs about $11 and it includes plans for building your own dishing tool. www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php But it doesn't have to be fancy to work. You could just use a piece of wood for the main beam. Drill it in the center for a bolt that will be the center foot that you screw down to touch the axle/locknuts. Then stack other short wood pieces as feet on the ends until they reach the rim. With a little experimentation you can make something like this that will do the job just as well as the tools you buy. Okay? I hope this helps and let me know if you have other questions.
@popswilson2008 4 ай бұрын
Thank you for the informative video Jim. Is there any need to de-stress the spokes after centering the rim?
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
You're very welcome pops! Thank you for watching and the great question. Yes, it never hurts to stress relieve the spokes anytime you turn a bunch of spokes. To do this you can just grab parallel pairs of spokes and gently squeeze to simulate what happens when you ride the wheel. Then check to see if the wheel came out of true a small amount from the stress relieving. If it did, true it and stress relieve one more time and you should be good to go. Okay? Hope this is helpful and thanks again!
@_Zane__ 4 ай бұрын
I was doing some minor truing on a new wheel out of the box, the 3.23mm spoke wrench (black park tool) fit on the nipples but was SUPER tight to the point I had to leverage/jam it onto the nipple... is that common ? I actually rounded one spoke nipple off because i used a slightly larger green wrench which worked for most of the spokes but didnt on one of the really factory overtightened spoke nipples 😅
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and the question Zane. I wouldn't say it's common but I have run into it before where I used to work. I don't know if the variation in fit is in the nipples or in the spoke wrench. I don't have any to measure right now. But you could measure both the spoke wrench and the nipples to see which is out of tolerance. If it's the wrench, I would expect Park would replace it for you. You definitely want a tight fit but the wrench shouldn't need to be forced onto the nipple. But, I could see the possibility of a too thick layer of chrome that would make the fit undersize maybe. If it is the tool, you could probably sand it to size but again, it'll probably be easier to reach out to Park. If you find anything out, please let me know and good luck.
@myvicariouslife4012 4 ай бұрын
Whats a good way to diy measure spoke tension? Im rebuilding a rear wheel and dont have a spoke tension meter...thanks
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
You certainly don't need a spoke tension meter to build wheels - they're a relatively new tool so great wheels were being built well before we had tools to mention spoke tension. But for anyone interested I do have another video all about spoke tension meters, whether you need one and how they work here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bbB8qpehrN-6qX0.html The thing about building wheels and basically guessing at tension is that you'll get feedback pretty quickly once you ride the wheel. If it stays true the tension is likely tight enough. If it comes loose and goes out of true, the tension is not tight enough. And at that point you learned a lesson about making it tighter. Some ways to tell with a tension tool are to feel other rear wheels you might have or friends might to gauge how tight their wheel feels compared to your wheel. You can also pluck the spokes and listen to the noise they make compared to yours. The issue there is that different types of wheels will make different sounds. So, if you want to study up on that technique, here's a great and extensive article by John Allen in the HPV publication: www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp53-2002.pdf It might help to know that the tightest spokes on rear wheels are on the cassette side. So those are the ones to feel for tension. If you squeeze them it should hurt your hands a little before the spokes move much if at all. But, of course, that depends on how strong your grip is and how tough your hands are too. But you can get a feel by squeezing spokes in several rear wheels you believe are well built rear wheels and compare that feel to your wheel. Hope this helps and thanks for watching and commenting!
@JamesDavis-kp4ll 4 ай бұрын
Pretend your wheel is a stringed instrument & pluck each "string"/spoke, aiming for each "string's" tone/note to ideally as closely as possible match the rest of the ones on its side. Remember that on rear wheels, the driveside spokes are tighter, & therefore a higher "note" than the left/nondriveside. On front wheels, rim brake ones, the spoke tension should be basically the same on both sides, but with disc brake front wheels, it'll be higher, & therefore the "note", on that side than the nondisc side. Also, when it comes to the rear wheel, it's more important to be aiming for the spokes to have that ideally close as possible to each other tightness/tone/note on the driveside, but on the nondrive side, it's not actually as important or necessarily what you're shooting/aiming for. As in when the wheelbuild is finally complete, & everything's dialed in as mich as you can get it, lateral, radial, dish, & equal spoke tensions on that driveside, there is usually some inherent variance left over on the nondrive side. If everything else is "in balance"/ the best you can get it, including a high enough overall around the entire wheel spoke tension, on both sides, this is more often than not an end result, where there is more variance in the tension on the nondriveside on rear wheels, & to an extent, the exact same thing/principle with nondisc sides on disc front wheels. If you ever build a wheel & all 3 aspects of trueness, lateral, radial, & dish are perfect, & the tone/note/tension is also the exact same on every spoke on each side of that wheel, you should immediately build a custom enclosure/frame/box, & hang it on the wall or put it on display ASAP & never touch that sucker again! 😉🙌 'Cause you're never gonna' see that again. 💯 Even a slight variation in air humidity/moisture or wind speed/barometric pressure might change that..., 😜
@myvicariouslife4012 4 ай бұрын
@@JamesDavis-kp4ll hmmm...I may be biting off more than I can chew lol. On a bright note I have a guitar tuner that may help me out with it.
@JoseLFerca 4 ай бұрын
Hi. Quick question. I am thinking about getting a truing stand. I think about ts - 2.3. I know there is one that is better but I am not sure if I can afford the other one. What do you think??
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and the question Jose. Park Tool’s TS-2.3 is a great stand. The main difference with it and the 4.2 is that the 4.2 handles even fat bike wheels (super wide). So you don’t need it if you’re not working on oversize wheels like that. Hope this helps.
@JoseLFerca 4 ай бұрын
@@JimLangley1 OK. Is there any other differences between both?? I mean my uncle has a fat boy from specialized but I do not if I will work on it sometime. I only have mountain and road bikes. Can I work fine with the cheapest??
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
@@JoseLFerca I go in depth on truing stands and how to use them and show different types here Jose: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gKxoo5Sc1K3Rn4E.html And in this video, I explain what features that Park's TS-4.2 has that make it different from their other stand: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jtejfriUyrDeoGw.html There's a lot to talk about with both things so watch these videos and they'll help you in your decision.
@deltafour1212 4 ай бұрын
I have a cheap 90's MTB bicycle with a steel wheel The non drive spokes are 161mm, Drive side 163mm. Can I buy all new 36 spokes the same length or does the 2mm really make that big of difference when truing?
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
Hi deltafour! So, since you have the wheel, hopefully you took a very close look at the spokes before taking the wheel apart. That's when you can see if the spokes in the wheel are the perfect length or if the wheel was built with too short spokes - a common issue with stock steel wheels. If they are the perfect length the spokes will go fully into the nipples and you won't see any threads at the bottom of the nipples. Assuming the spokes that were in the wheel were the right length, then you probably need to purchase the same length as before since someone calculated that length to ensure they fit correctly in that wheel. Usually on rear wheels though, the longer length is on the left side/non drive side. But maybe the hub is sized such that it's the other way around on your wheel. What you could do is calculate your own spoke lengths using an online tool such as this great one: www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/ Be sure to take your own hub and rim ERD measurements so you know what you put into the calculator are accurate numbers. I have a video showing how: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gtyGZ6l2l7zcip8.htmlsi=tkNipBI9rjnfMibB Now, if your goal is to be able to buy 36 same length spokes, then you could experiment to find what lacing pattern on the left and right of the wheel might give you the same length spokes on both sides. As long as the difference is only 1mm, you can round down or up to get the same length. So for example, maybe running cross-3 on one side and cross-2 on the other might give you even lengths? You never know what's possible until you run the calculation, which is fun. Just be sure to get the numbers right that you plug in. Okay? I hope this helps, have fun building that wheel!
@deltafour1212 4 ай бұрын
@@JimLangley1 The steel wheel was never taken apart due to one spoke nipple is seized on, due to rust. Maybe that's why I am having trouble truing it and all have equal spoke tension The ones I did take out, the non-drive are all 261mm and drive side are all 263mm.
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
@@deltafour1212 you can usually break a frozen spoke free by heating it with a propane torch or even a lighter or heat gun so you might try that to get it to move. You can also cut out the spoke and replace it with a new nipple and spoke to be able to true the wheel. As long as those spokes in the wheel are the right length, that's probably the correct spoke length. If the spokes are on the long side, which would mean the ends of the spokes are sticking out of the top of the nipples, then you could go with the same size spokes on both sides and just go with 262s all around. The one thing with steel wheels is the rim is so strong that it's what does most of the work so that wheel should be very strong even if the spokes aren't perfectly tensioned. If you're having trouble truing it, it might be a bad seam or even a bent rim - both pretty common on steel rims. So you should check the rim carefully for issues with it that could prevent it being trued very straight.
@deltafour1212 4 ай бұрын
@@JimLangley1 "The one thing with steel wheels is the rim is so strong that it's what does most of the work so that wheel should be very strong even if the spokes aren't perfectly tensioned." You just cured me of my headache! THANK YOU!
@JimLangley1 4 ай бұрын
@@deltafour1212 you're welcome deltafour - happy to hear it!
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