How to Colour the Edges of a Book // Adventures in Bookbinding

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Күн бұрын

In this video I'll demonstrate how to put solid #coloured edges on a book. I will do a basic #edge preparation with a final brush burnishing and a more thorough edge preparation with final burnishing with an agate burnisher.
These videos are only possible thanks to the support of Patreons, and if you are able, your support would be greatly appreciated.
/ dasbookbinding
I understand not everyone wants to use Patreon. I also very much welcome and appreciate one-off contributions. This can be done through PayPal.me/dasbookbinding
DAS Bookbinding KZfaq Channel guide
dasbookbinding.com/2019/12/14...
The agate burnisher I use is from Hewits
www.hewitonline.com/product_p/...
The tools and materials I use can be purchased from specialist suppliers and manufacturers in my suppliers list. If you are in Australia I have a limited range of items I supply by mail or by pickup from the bindery in Brisbane.
dasbookbinding.com/shop/
dasbookbinding.com/2020/03/27...
The #DASBookbinding Channel is the perfect starting point for learning #bookbinding. It covers foundation skills, simple projects, technical methods, materials and more advanced bookbinding projects. The videos are presented in a tutorial or lesson fashion, which I hope are easy to follow. The knowledge presented is based on traditional techniques which can be used to create traditional books or as a foundation to quality journalling or creative artists' books. The best way to find what you are looking for is the DAS Bookbinding KZfaq Channel guide.
dasbookbinding.com/2019/12/14...
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English Closed Caption titles by Carrie Snyder. Thank you!!
The music used in this video is performed by Jon Sayles. Jon has some great classical guitar music on his website, which he shares freely.

Пікірлер: 118

@taken-for-pomegranted 3 жыл бұрын

*Very* helpful video! I can't wait to use some of these techniques.

@nataliesnyder5275 2 жыл бұрын

Very helpful, a project I've been meaning to try for a year now, thank you.

@elliotmcdeville1117 2 жыл бұрын

All your videos are fabulous, you explain things so clearly and it is a pleasure to watch and listen to. You've given me the confidence to experiment and try techniques I always assumed were out of my reach. Thank you.

@renatacarneiro5874 3 жыл бұрын

I simply love this Chanel!

@aaa_1727 Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this! You sounded so friendly and patient as you were saying what is to be done, it really helped me overcome the feeling I might screw it up!!

@ernestobarrera2927 3 жыл бұрын

Great job! I can't wait to try this myself

@danicastaneda6991 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent tutorial! Thank you so much 😊

@gopalchauhan9649 4 жыл бұрын

It's making me feel like I saw experiencing a jewelry being made you have put in all you have Many thanks for your time and education given. ❤️

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I guess Sage Reynolds is one up on me as he has videos of bookbinding and jewellery making! ALl the best, DAS

@nancyangel3213 3 жыл бұрын

Que delicadeza y gran detalle y dedicación para hacer tu trabajo. Encantador y fascinante!!! 😱😱 Muchas gracias!!! 🤗🤗🤗🇨🇴

@adhdweirdo4314 Жыл бұрын

A friend of mine who I thought I could trust stained 2 of my books- realized a way I could fix at least one of them and have been doing research into it. Thank you for this!

@maryvonecruz 3 жыл бұрын

Que maravilha! Muito obrigada pelos seus vídeos.

@bridiedrain3722 3 жыл бұрын

Another brilliant video . Thank You so much.

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! DAS

@onesagotoomany 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent information in here again. Thanks for sharing. Here's another, left-field, option: A few years ago I bought a little airbrush unit (one sold for cosmetics rather than art, so was very inexpensive). It can take a couple more layers than wiping/painting, but the ink is so super-thin, I've had no problem with pages sticking together. And it makes it really easy to do graduated colors, which is a nice effect - even a very subtle graduation towards the spine on top and bottom. Not on every book, of course. And particularly not if applying size before gold leafing the edge, but it's a worthwhile technique that's quite new to me.

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Yes I've seen some great effects done with an air brush. In a commercial bindery they can be really useful. Can be used to sprinkle edges, sprinkle leather for the perfect Cambridge Panel, and all sorts of creative effects.

@edwardgurney1694 4 жыл бұрын

I've had similar good results with spray paints.

@lucia-maria 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing!❤️

@tarasmakhnevych8819 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for your video.

@HieuTran-pw9ck 4 жыл бұрын

wow I just do some edge sanding, sprinkling yesterday and after seeing your video I realise that I make so many mistake haha :). What a beautiful, mammoth size plane and lying press you have there

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Not mistakes, just different ways and some are better than others in different situations:) I usually don't prepare edges for sprinkling. The advantage of a pattern that hides a bit of roughness. Yes I'm lucky to have the press. The advantage of living near Frank Wiesner. I normally use a small wood body plane but with the change in weather the blade had moved and I could not get it adjusted in a hurry, so grabbed the monster 4 1/2.

@arjunpaudel709 Жыл бұрын

you're great; a new subscriber from Nepal. ❤️ found it just now

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

Wow, first person I know of from Nepal! Happy binding! Darryn

@HieuTran-pw9ck 4 жыл бұрын

Loved the video ! I've tried colour edges before, and only till now I can see every mistake that I've made aha. I used to sand edge without noticing the direction, and realized that it always leave some dent in the surface. The colour that I've painted with is watercolor, some worked fine, but the black one is very bad to use as it comes off easily with the swipe of finger (or maybe because I add too many layers on it, I have to try again to make sure).

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Black is hard. To stop graphite coming off you burnish it under bees wax. I'll get to that in the next few months.

@mechsistah2395 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating...

@elazarwitchel3008 3 жыл бұрын

Great video! I want to try doing this with a deck of cards.

@miwin1000 3 жыл бұрын

sounds like great fun!

@ArtaCartii 4 жыл бұрын

Great video, thank you!! I usually use good artist s acrylic colors with heavy pigment, Like Polycolor from Maimeri or Flasche, thinned down 50%. I rather daub forcefully and quickly, not swipe, with as little paint as possible and dry immediately with a hot air gun, to prevent seepage. To burnish it, I use a crumpled up piece of paper, it works wonders :D Greetings from Romania, Mihai.

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Mihai. Thanks for sharing your tips. The psalter on your website has great deep red edges (everyone check it out under videos at www.artacartii.com/) I take it you daub to get a texture or pattern. The crumpled paper for burnishing is a great tip. It reminds me of woodworkers who use shavings to polish wood. I use it to even out thin coats of bole.

@cristinarocha6080 2 жыл бұрын

Amei vou tentar fazer, espero que eu consiga, obrigada 👏🙏🙌🇧🇷

@fludrbywest3886 3 жыл бұрын

😊, I appreciate your instructions and tips in these edge coloring videos, I have one question however😁 Talc I have gotten away from because they say it has cancer causing properties. So is it possible to use corn starch , tapioca starch or arrow root flour or some of these types of powder? Thank you 🙏🏻 so much for your instruction video 💫👍🏻💖 I understand now why, I did go back and read -Talc=(magnesium silicate hydroxide and sometimes called French chalk)👍🏻🙏🏻💫

@bernardmilford3918 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Darryn, for another video that hits the spot. Question is - can watercolour paints be used for edge decoration and what extra precautions would one need to take?

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Bernard. Yes, I guess. I used to use gouache all the time. I guess it would just be harder to get a solid colour? Good luck Darryn

@mogonigik 4 жыл бұрын

another great video. Question: How to sharpen the card scraper? Please thank you.

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Too easy. I have a video for that! Ciao, DAS kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mb2dksKbqMqzhZs.html

@markdonnelly6650 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Thanks for the video. In fact thanks for all the videos i am picking up heaps of tips and tricks. One question though. Where did you get that cool water dispenser from? The one that looks like something an alchemist would have

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Hi. I'm sure most modern chemists would like to think of themselves as alchemists:) I think what you're referring to is the wash bottle. Any lab supply store will have them for $5 or less. Let me know if that wasn't the bottle you meant. www.labgearaustralia.com.au/shop/product/tarsons-wash-bottle-side-delivery-tube-125ml-6-pack-2514?category=133

@ibeamish1 4 жыл бұрын

Do find that with certain types of paper stocks you need to size the edge in some way to get a good result? I follow your method and usually have good results, but every now and then I try it with an unfamiliar paper stock and the issue that usually arises is the acrylic ink creeps too deeply into the page. I have wondered if sizing could help with those candidates and what you would recommend. I could also just pair the choice of the papers that seem to react this way with a lightly speckled design, but that would be giving up!

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, this is very true. Soft absorbent paper is a pain in the neck. A light coat of paste wash (diluted paste, or I usually use the liquid that accumulates on the top of the paste in the paste jar) before smoothing the edge and again after the edges has been made smooth helps seal the pores in the paper fibres. In this case using gilding boards which puts a huge amount of pressure at the edge of the book helps too. PVA size also works (1 teaspoon of PVA to 200ml of water). Talc up the edge to stop the pages sticking together. Sizing the edge of books is very common in edge gilding. Good luck! DAS

@vipkidteacher2307 3 жыл бұрын

Great video! Just a few questions. The talc doesn’t get in between the paint and the paper? Also by acrylic ink, do you mean acrylic paint?

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

After the talc is applied the edge is usually sanded smooth which removes surface talc. Acrylic ink is like thin acrylic paint. I like Liquitex www.liquitex.com/row/products/professional/colors/acrylic-ink/ But you can use just about anything. You just don;t want a build up of paint which will flake off. Alcohol based ink should be avoided because it soaks in. Good luck, DAS

@vipkidteacher2307 3 жыл бұрын

As always, thank you for your quick reply! If I’m using regular acrylic paint, I should use 75% water? It’s should be super liquidy?

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

@@vipkidteacher2307 Really depends on the type of paint. Even for different colours I add different amounts for the Liquitex inks. Just based on my experience with these paints. I know this doesn't help, but there are many things in bookbinding where you need to find the Goldilocks zone. I guess it's better to be thin than thick. You can give it another coat, but hard to take it off. Good luck! DAS

@strnhrdt 8 ай бұрын

Great Video! It is nice to compare the the work of a real professional with they DIY stuff i saw so far! I tried 3 books so far and found that spray paint worked best for me. However, i didnt use the talcum powder, didnt sand them and i used old books, so color bleeding was too bad on the inside with the acrylic color i tried. Spray paint was realy easy to work with worked very well (i was surprised as i had no clue what i was doing), no bleed and i loved the very matt look on the outside. However i want to try to do it "right" as well to compare results and im wondering if it was the age of the books i used, the missing talc or my poor technique that gave me the bleeding on the inside. Also i would love if people would show the result on the inside more often. I guess as you know what you are doing that it is "perfect" but id still like to compare. Also i want to do something special for one project in the future and chissel some kind of relief into the edges before painting them. I assume that doesnt go well with alot of the techniques you showed here but i will still try sanding and talc powder. Lets see how that goes haha. Thanks for all the insight anyway!

@DASBookbinding 8 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing. The name of the technique for putting patterns on the edge is gauffering. Not chiseled in, but impressed like finishing. It's done after edge decoration or gilding. I'm sure there is something on the web about it.

@edwardgurney1694 4 жыл бұрын

Great video! That trick with the talcum powder is going to save me a lot of cussing and swearing, I'm sure. How did you do the book with the striped edges from the intro? Thin masking tape?

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

Just be warned, the talc helps, but you can still stick pages together. Too thick acrylic paint is how I do it usually. I wondered if anyone would notice the striped book. I learned that from Fred Pohlmann. You trim and prepare the edges of the book before sewing. Then take every other section and colour the edges one colour, and the other half another. Put them back together in the right order. The hard part is sewing them so the edges remain even. I do this by cutting the sewing locations with a knife and sewing very carefully. Fred does all sorts of amazing things with this technique.

@edwardgurney1694 4 жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding Wow, that sounds like a real test of skill. I wonder if theres a way to do it after binding- insert a waste sheet between each section after sanding, then paint alternating colours in each section. Damnit, now I really want to try this.

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

@@edwardgurney1694 Sounds harder to do after sewing:)

@catalinaaraya8197 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! I have dumb question. Should I do this before or after rounding the book?

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

And should you do before backing? All have pros and cons. Before rounding you have to deal with the swell at the spine. So after rounding is easier as the swell is distributed. But then sometimes backing disturbed the edge a bit. I like to do edge work once the edge is in it's final state. But then you have to deal with the shoulders and the spine area can't be compressed as well. After rounding and before backing is easiest. But I think after backing is best result. DAS

@sheilamurdock 3 жыл бұрын

Hello! Would you use the talc powder again to dust the edge after sanding, please? It seems that it would defeat the purpose of using the talc powder before sanding if the powder comes off with the sandpaper. Thank you for sharing your method.

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

No I wouldn't. The talc that does the work isn't on the edge of the paper but the sides. That's why I fan the book to apply the talc and then rub in with a finger. If you put talc on after sanding the colour might not stick to the edge. Hope this makes sense. Happy binding, DAS

@sheilamurdock 3 жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding , ah okay, I understand perfectly now. So, I should expect the very edges of the pages to still possibly stick--that's why you thwack the fore edge on the tabletop and fan the pages a bit after the ink/paint dries. Thank you for responding.

@OtterLakeFlutes Жыл бұрын

I have much, much more experience in lapidary than books... if I set my cabochon maker back up I can make any kind of agate burnisher you give me dimensions for. Wow! I was going to ask why you use a less paint-like ink that would never stick the pages (like archival ink or aniline dye) then I realized they wouldn't seal at all, just color. And I didn't know you could use a scraper directly on a text block!

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

I do use acrylic paint and ink (Liquitex acrylic ink is my favourite) occasionally. But I just burst burnish these edges and don't seal with wax. Thanks for the offer on the agate. The shapes are a bit hard to describe. I'm reasonably happy for now.

@richardstivers5835 Ай бұрын

So you thin the ink with water?

@currybun8570 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video! I've tried to color edges of old books before, but some of the paint kept leaking to the actual pages. If I wish to protect book edges without coloring them, will just applying beeswax the same way you did here be okay?

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

I don't think I've seen this done before but I don't see why not. I would put the book in a press, sand the edge, give it a coat of paste wash (thin paste) to fill the cellulose fibre ends, and then burnish without wax and then with wax. Once my bindery is up and going again I must experiment with this. DAS

@currybun8570 Жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding Thanks for the reply!! I wasn't expecting it to be this quick. Hope things are doing better there!!

@bella-bee 3 жыл бұрын

do you think arrowroot or cornflour would work as well as talc? im not too happy about breathing the stuff!

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

Talc is no more likely to be contaminated with asbestos (which is how it got its bad reputation) today as the many things we ingest that could be contaminated, except modern quality control standard are put in place to protect us that didn't exist in the past. But I understand about being cautious. Unfortunately the substitutes you suggest are starches and thus when moisture is applied they will turn to an uncooked paste and likely stick pages together. I found the acrylic inks don't need the talc and if you use thin layers of gouache these usually don't stick. Heavy acrylic I found the worst. Good luck! DAS

@lujadosyning 4 жыл бұрын

Can you please do a video about cutting thumb indexes?

@DASBookbinding 4 жыл бұрын

What a great questions; I didn't see that one coming!! I just checked and John Mason's book, Art and Practice of Printing Vol V 1933, has a whole half page on thumb indexes. John Pleger's book, Bookbinding 1924, has a couple of pages and images of the machines used to cut them. I'm guessing the machines are hard to come by these days:) I'll have to research this a bit and try some things out. I'll get back to you. Thanks for the great question. DAS

@tottisempre 8 ай бұрын

Can this be done ahead of fore edge decorating (with watercolours or markers)?

@DASBookbinding 8 ай бұрын

The fore-edge is only different in rounded books, and then you have to deal with any stepping. Or you do it before rounding, which is common.

@8polyglot Жыл бұрын

Im looking to stain or protect the edges of a bible already bound (purchased mass market). Any way at all to stain page edges of an already-bound volume?

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

Staining doesn't really protect unless there is burnishing too. And you need the pressure of press to do this, which isn't really possible in a bound book. I'm sure someone would be willing to do it, but I wouldn't. Sorry. DAS

@wayneyadams Жыл бұрын

What brand os acrylic ink was used and where can it be bought?

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

Liquitex. Any art store should have it.

@bella-bee 3 жыл бұрын

ive seen colouring done with archival ink pads, even if the edges are already gilded! you spread the pages a tiny amount to colour a fraction in from the tips of the pages, and rub off excess quickly so the gilding doesnt get dull. not tried it myself

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. DAS

@soniama5246 11 ай бұрын

Could i used disstressed oxide ink to paint the edges of the book? Or is acrylic paunt rhe best for edges and stenciling and with a nice polished look?

@DASBookbinding 11 ай бұрын

Sure. You can try whatever you want. I can't guarantee it will work as I haven't tried everything. But experimenting is fun!

@soniama5246 11 ай бұрын

@@DASBookbinding 🙃I shall try then thank you

@felipediazvlog 8 ай бұрын

Question: the industrial blow dry, it's pretty hot, doesn't it damages the paper? Thanks!

@DASBookbinding 8 ай бұрын

One of the great things about this Bosch heat gun is it has digital variable temperature control. So I can set the temp at whatever I want, which is usually fairly cool. Much lower than when I'm stripping paint.

@felipediazvlog 8 ай бұрын

@@DASBookbinding So, the hottness is similar to a hair blow dryer? Thanks for your answer!

@JMCatron 2 ай бұрын

I'm having some real trouble with this. I got cobalt blue acrylic paint, mixed 2g paint with 2g water, hit the pages with talc, rubbed in by hand like he said, and my pages are sticking terribly. The paint is flaking off, too. Am I applying too much paint or something?

@DASBookbinding Ай бұрын

Yes, too much paint. Try just wiping a thin layer on and maybe even wipe most off. Let it dry and do another coat to get a more solid colour. But if it flakes off it is too thick. I sometimes make it too thick too. It is tempting to get the solid sour you want:)

@tuyetdominh866 2 жыл бұрын

Hi! I tried painting my book edges using poster colors. But when it’s dry, it peeled off some of the paint, and the edges weren’t very smooth. Do u have any recommendations for this? Thank youuuu

@DASBookbinding 2 жыл бұрын

Putting some talc between the pages sometimes helps stop the pages sticking together (demonstrated in the edge gilding videos). Thinner paint is the other idea I have. Good luck! DAS

@tuyetdominh866 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@robsonbarbosa2500 3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting video. I would like to ask what is the purpose of applying the wax. Can I paint with gouache without applying it? I would also like to ask if it is true that inks can contribute to acidifying paper or if this will depend on the ink used (from what I researched, gouache is even an alkaline ink) ...

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

The wax helps seal the surface and make it more resistant to moisture and dust. It also looks good. Most inks won't harm paper. Iron gall ink is the one famous for causing the degradation of paper, especially with the addition of moisture. I used to use gouache all the time for solid coloured edges. I just found the acrylic inks a bit easier and faster. But maybe the gouache was a nicer finish. All the best, DAS

@robsonbarbosa2500 3 жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding, thanks for the answer... So, in this case, there is no problem using gouache without the wax, right?

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

@@robsonbarbosa2500 You can. But gouache is soft and likes water. I'd do something to make it a bit harder on the edge. A good brush burnish is probably enough. Give it a firm brushing with a natural bristled brush. Something firm enough to compact the edge but not enough to scratch it. DAS

@lizcole3975 3 жыл бұрын

I was bookmaker in 1964 when I left school started in blackies in Bearsden just outside Glasgow I've never seen this part it was big factory but never seen this way all my Co workers were very good knew there jobs I loved working there till we shut down we moved to Collins bookbinding I hated it in Glasgow not same as blackies it was a family I left.went to work in knitwear factory it was great got married after that and family.

@lizcole3975 3 жыл бұрын

I guess bookbinding changed as everything people who do things different nowadays not like yrs ago enjoyed my work then now I'm cleaner zinc 1982 well liked and established as one

@blakxhart Жыл бұрын

As I don’t use animal products, is there an alternative wax to beeswax that you know of?

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

Paraffin wax. Any modern white candle, which is made of paraffin wax, will be fine.

@TheMayaracaldas 3 жыл бұрын

could this modification affect the quality of the pages? causing early yellowing or something like that?

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

No. Just use quality paints or dyes. DAS

@TheMayaracaldas 3 жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding thanks! You and your videos are The best :)

@TS-eo9uf 5 ай бұрын

At what sort of store do you find talc?

@DASBookbinding 5 ай бұрын

It used to be common. I buy it in bulk from a barber supply company. I resell it in smaller quantities if you are in Australia.

@TS-eo9uf 5 ай бұрын

@@DASBookbinding Thank you for your reply! Sadly I'm in the US.

@dugga4617 Жыл бұрын

Ever get the pages sticking together? I’m pretty sure my water to paint ratio is 50-50 but it still happens

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

Yep, I sure do, and everyone does! Once you find a paint mix that works you stick with it. Also different papers will behave differently. A soft paper is more likely to stick, in which case I might talc the edges like I do when edge gilding.

@dugga4617 Жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding sorry I commented same thing on two of your videos!😁 the way i talc may be the problem, plus the paper. Im doing this to bibles

@GD-qs9zg 2 ай бұрын

Could Fountain Pen ink also be used for this process?

@DASBookbinding 2 ай бұрын

It is often alcohol based and usually soaks in. But it might be worth testing on something - a rubbish paperback. Paperbacks have very absorbent paper and if it doesn't soak in on that then it should be fine.

@albertserafim8092 Жыл бұрын

is tis talc normal for skin? or some special?

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

It's talc the mineral, which used to be the talc for person use. Most talc sold now is actually corn starch, which when wet becomes an adhesive, and thus no good for this purpose. It's getting hard to find.

@albertserafim8092 Жыл бұрын

@@DASBookbinding thamk you 4 answer

@arjunpaudel709 Жыл бұрын

Man if i do not have smthg to press my books , what is the way ?

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

You can just use some pressing boards and some heavy weights. I also have a video on making a cheap press.

@simonerocha618 3 жыл бұрын

Deveria por legenda

@DASBookbinding 3 жыл бұрын

Sorry. I've tried but haven't been able to. DAS

@Christopher_T_Paul Жыл бұрын

Bookbinding is a near lost art now, or at least handworking is. There is very little call for it at a professional level. I have been in the trade for 28 years and finding work harder to come by. People are just so willing to accept cheaper second rate work that is partly done by machine with generous tolerances. I am now in a position where I have had to take up work with Muller Martini as a consultant at an industrial, mass production level, I haven't professionally bound a book in 20 months...

@DASBookbinding Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your story. Yes, no doubt bookbinding is a different beast now. I hope a niche market will come out of this period of change. But it will require a more educated customer and bookbinders that adapt to the new environment. Probably a game for people younger than us. One issue I have is small professional binders who hold their standard work up as fine binding. Customers then don't understand the difference between solid high quality trade work and genuine fine binding. Muller Martini will be lucky to have your experience. Maybe you can stop some heavy art book going into and inappropriate square back case where the inner hinge tears the second time it's opened. Good luck! DAS