Also add the clause: Client must pay for any and all expenses (legal and otherwise) resulting from a breach of this contract.

The theater company probably needed the swords for something else.

Also dont hand it over if they wont pay and still sue them! The item might be basically worthless in any other context but they still owe you for the full amount!

I have some really unique ways of dealing with this

I find if you put enough contingencies or what ifs in the back of the contract this usually won't happen

*very smart idea to insure absolute honesty on the part of the client and to avoid misunderstandings in the future*

I work in Software now and used to do Software Asset Management, back when you had perpetual license like you mentioned. Whats crazy is there were companies that would give you the keys to the shop let you take what you want and then charge you at the end of the year. They would get there money too, they actually banked on it to get more money out of accounts. Now everything is cloud based, so licenses get turned off with a few mouse clicks if contracts or payments end. As you said companies pay really quick when things go down, the lost operational cost alone makes it worth paying the piper. So some software companies will now charge reinstatement fees to click a switch. Its a different world now with Subscriptions.

that trial should be mentioned upfront, not be hidden. I'd be wondering what else is going to fail and how much will it cost me?

​@@Erni3KIt costs you what you agreed to pay in the contract. Failure to pay is breach of contract. If you refuse to pay you don't deserve to keep the product you are legally obligated to pay for.

@@bardsamok9221 wellllll, legally, it depends on the country, there are some spotty laws out there and black areas that aren't covered. But fringe cases are the exception, not the rule.

Going out of business situations always cause this when the business is driven there. I don’t see many successful legacy businesses having this problem unless of course the legacy business is built off of exploitation.

😳

Wait, don't just stop at that much story.. So..what do you mean he continued to work there, without pay? (I'm sure some sorta deal with arranged) Like elaborate on your story? Please.

@MRSketch09 he chose to renumerate himself with a generous bias as close as he saw fit to the amount of his missing pay with the tools he found around himself at the workplace he was leaving

that's called stealing...@@masteroogway6660

Holy cow!

I would do two things: 1. sue for intimidation and threatening violence 2. go to small claims court

3. Use the backdoor you installed to wipe his machine remotely... Lol

@@mundanestuff Not a good idea if you want to see them in court or in general. Installing backdoors or wiping PCs is a really good way of getting your reputation ruined and to lose court cases. Pulling a web site - okay, the data is still there, you can switch it back on any time. Holding stuff back until you get paid is just fair. But destroying data is a big no-no.

@@KonradTheWizzard that is why you never mention it ever and make it look like a system failure. You will learn it the longer you work in IT

The Lien will have the most impact and best outcome for your Dad. Because you know where she lives, a private debt collector may be the fastest solution. I used one in the past for an overseas debt and got instant results.

@@jeffparisse4202 Tell us you work in international crime without telling us you work in international crime. (this is a joke.)

I had the opposite happen. A contractor quoted me a prize for some renovations, I accepted, paid the materials upfront then they started breaking things as they were working and had to fix em themselves at some point I was fed up and told em to stop (they had to fix the gate too which was the meaty part of the deal but I stopped em before they could do further damage) and suddenly they decided that the prize they quoted had gone up because of all the extra-work they had to do (which was fixing stuff they broke lmao) and quoting absurd renewed prizes on the things that were already part of what we negotiated before (even had gone as far as making a new revised project sheet with different expenses marked than the initial one). Needless to say the minute I heard I had to pay double for half the work I sent em packing and they then proceeded to threaten me and my mother saying they would be forced to send "someone" to collect by any means necessary (had to go to the police to put em on warning too lol) and sent a fake letter pretending to be from a lawfirm (called em and they didn't have anything to do with said company as a client lol). Needless to say it was quite a ride.

@@aelix56lol

You cant just put a lien on someones house. You needa judge and a court of law lmao. In ontario you need to go to the court to get a certificate of substantial performance.

Yes it's always wise to have some kind of payment upfront because of time wasters, and to make clear in the contract that this is not refundable. And make the payment and delivery timeline explicitly clear.

This is what we do for fixed cost software development contracts as well.

Something else to consider is, you really want to be sure up front that you're talking to the actual person that signs the checks, not just an intermediary pretending to be The Check Signer. Because if it's not TGTSTC, and the intermediary doesn't communicate well to their boss, you can get into situations where you've totally satisfied your contact person... but they don't get authority to pay you and their boss doesn't understand the project or has other ideas, and kills the whole deal. And you never knew about this. Saw it happen sooo many times, where we worked so hard to craft the message to the intended audience, and the guy signing the checks wasn't part of that planning, isn't that audience, can't relate to the message or understand it may not be his cup of tea but absolutely hits the nail on the head for the INTENDED TARGET AUDIENCE... so I do ask the person talking to me about a job who *really* signs off on the completion and payments. .

I do 10% first. 40% submittal of the building permit; 40% at delivery / issuance of the building permit, then 10% after to manage during construction. am architect.

@@warchitect73 Seems fair for what you do. The exact percentage is going to vary by job and by how much you have to lay out in advance to get things going: camera rentals, professional crew, permits, things like that, in my case. It's a very small community and word gets around if you pay your bills and people on time or not. So my front third is mostly acquired in order to make sure my rentals have been covered and my people paid. if the project dies in pre-production or the start of production, I don't have much if any profit, but I have no loss or debt, and my reputation for paying my obligations is protected. I don't usually start earning money until the middle payment, and most of the profit comes at the end.

What was the reason you were only able to recover half? Your expenses such as court fees should have been added to the claim.

I would eat the cost just to be a nuisance to them and make them see what a pain it can be to try to rip people off. It would be about the principle for me at that point. Then I would ask if I could use them as a reference haha

In many locations all necessary fees are to be paid by the offender

@@bardsamok9221 In England and Wales which is where I'm assuming Watermelonhelmet is as they mention £s you can add the court costs and your time in preparing the claim to the claim itself.

All those extra losses should be calculated into your judgement. But it's also about making sure people aren't just getting away with it,

Some basic paper work; an invoice describing the work and the terms is a good place to start. Not that complicated, and a lot of samples on this internet. Work does not begin until it's agreed to and signed.

Indeed, putting things on paper is essential. In some situations and depending on where in the world you are, an oral contract can have weight in court though. And a contract doesn't necessarily have to be super formal, sometimes an email with you saying 'it will cost x', and the client responding 'sure, sounds good, please make it' is more than enough to be a binding agreement in the eyes of a court (but as with all these things depends on where you are in the world).

He assumes that because a written agreement should ALWAYS be in place, period. even if it's as simple as an email saying "The job is X, you will pay Y, and I will deliver on Z date" with written confirmation back. You have that and there's not much they can do against you in court, so long as you held up your end of the bargin. Most people businesses know this, and will generally back down the second you get a court date. ...now you will sometimes get a person refusing to pay still, which is a HASSLE to deal with, but generally won't end well for them when the sheriff shows up with a warrant. Unless they're really, really rich. Always be wary of working with anyone who can afford a team of lawyers, at least until you're big enough to afford your own.

@@JorenVaes Saw a video on Lehto’s Law where a judge decided an email (may have been text?) reply with a single character, a thumbs up emoji, was a binding contract! 🤷‍♂️

@@grahamstretch6863 that’s pretty much what happened with Elon Musk and Twitter. Elon tweeted saying he would buy Twitter for $52.40 a share, Twitter said deal and boom legal contract

Yep. I won a case in SC and the guy didn't pay. I ended up having the sheriff garnish the rent his two tenants were paying him, so he lost his house because he couldn't pay the mortgage. He really should've just paid me.

@@mytruckownsitAre you okay?

​@@mytruckownsityou've already well "loosed" it m8 😅

​@@mytruckownsitwhat kind of blathering idiocy are you spouting and why?

@@mytruckownsitHey buddy. You just blow in from Stupid Town?

You guys are getting tools? When I started as a mechanic we got a stick and a rock, and we had to share the rock.

@@SuperDriver379 Let me guess, you lived in t’ shoebox in t’ middle o’ street and had to walk to school in the snow bare feet, both ways uphill, 2 miles there and 3 miles back!

Harbor Freight: when it absolutely positively has to work once.

100%. I bought a cheap $35 Black and Decker drill to begin some work on my new (old) house. I am virtually certain that a nicer drill would be “easier” or “better”. But what I don’t have is money. I can stand there all day until the screw goes in. I got nothing but time. 😂 Took longer than some of the KZfaq videos that I watched, but I got the job done. Same for material, etc. If you haven’t done it, and want to try it, do it with cheap materials, and sell it if it turns out good. Then you can make something with better materials for yourself, and you can factor the price of those materials into the one that you sell. I’m learning how much entrepreneurship and frugality goes along with projects. It’s a really useful mindset that will keep you from going over-budget.

A rock is a tool, silly.@@SuperDriver379

If you had a family member that ordered something and then disappeared, how would you feel if asked to foot the bill? Before calling them idiots think what it's like from their point of view. I hope it was a fair amount of money for a fair amount of work and not extortion

Haven’t heard that before!

@@rickysmyth ......it was a company dingus, not someone's grandparent who tripped down a flight of stairs.

@@rickysmyth Yeah I don't work for the mob so that analogy makes no sense. That company made an order and signed an agreement. Do you work for that company? You remind me of them.

​One of the unfortunate things that people forget is that your employees represent your business. Your employees are YOUR problem. You finish out the agreements they made while working for you and then go after the employee for the money. Unless the supplier and employee were working together to screw the buyer, there's zero reason not to pay. And that's going to be something for a court to decide, not the employer because they don't feel like it.

That client was definitely toxic. It’s good to know who to walk away from, and not always easy to know at the beginning.

I just cannot imagine someone says work on a computer is “not real work.” I just don’t know how one can think in such a way.

@@stevendebettencourt7651 There are tons of people who are ready to tell you that any work that does not involve physical labor, or standing at an assembly line, or any other form of work that dares to be even a little bit enjoyable on the part of the worker, is not "real work" and therefore not worthy of recompense. One must be miserable while performing one's job, to be truly "working"!

I've had that situation, most times a gentle reminder that a commission is a contract gets the money. A couple of times I've sold the painting on the open market, people will pay surprisingly well for a nice painting of a random person they've never met.

​@@stevendebettencourt7651 I can imagine it easily, as clients and the general public don't understand the labor between each step that leads to the final product. And so they have a false understanding of the time/effort and assume. Something like changing a garage door can be a victim to this sense of devaluation.

That's when you apply for a sheriff to serve them and start taking stuff from their biz or home. Funny how fast the cash shows up.

Bingo! Small claims is just the first step in running out of money chasing a bad debt. Private debt collectors work well and fast in my experience.

selling the debt is one option.

That's why it's a waste of most people's time to put a lien on someone. Intimidation and embarrassing the client is much quicker

They very much see the problem. You're entirely too kind to attribute to someone literally robbing you the benefit of the doubt by justifying it with "they genuinely do not feel like I earned it or didn't work enough to warrant the agreed price." And while it speaks to your kind and upstanding character, we just do not live in a world where you can realistically apply your good qualities to anyone else. People almost without fail take kindness for weakness. And it doesn't matter about their feelings about how you managed getting the work done. As long as you provide whatever it is the agreement calls for, they are responsible for payment in full, even if you just went home, rubbed a lamp, and had you djinni produce the service or finished product while you played video games and ate Doritos. Sad we live in such a world, but it is always refreshing to find folks like you that are truly good, kind individuals still willing to give others a chance, whether warranted or not.

Tip from a business lawyer friend of mine.. never do that to their page. You immediately set yourself up for slander and them having grounds for a countersuit against your claim in court. "Just because its true, doesn't mean its right" was his words when came to this specifically and risk of slander countersuits. As a web design company owner, we leave the clients site up purely out of good faith, leaving the client defenseless in court as to why they haven't paid up. By instead changing it to a blog about nonpayment, you are doing 2 things, denying the client business as their website now isn't operational, but also setting yourself up for them to be able to claim that lack of business may be worth more than what they even owed you in the first place, resulting in YOU paying THEM (and any legal fees) to put their site back online. Also why when people say they do web design without a contract, I cringe. If its not on paper, its not defensible. (Also don't create your own contracts, sit with a lawyer to help draw one up.. even free contract templates online are many times VERY weakly written) If your not happy with leaving the clients site as is until claims can be handled, take it down fully, as you should have it written into the contract as disciplinary action for non payment. Othewise.. leave it alone and protect YOURSELF from giving the client ammunition to use against you.

@@MattWeberI agree 100% on leaving the web page alone, as tempting as it may be. You want the judge to view you as the good guy & injured party, not the client.

25+ years in IT, also currently looking for something else. Work/Life Balance is balls in that business and so is dealing with haggling/slow pay customers.

Lack of accountability leads to a deterioration of society. And a society of sociopaths who can't understand why their incorrect actions are incorrect will crumble because they can't hold themselves to the rigor of truth, logic, and reason

Appreciate that! Will pass your comment along to Adam!

@@tested Thank you so much! I believe I speak for many makers when I say Adam has been such a large inspiration. This specific video was so well timed for me personally as I have just started my own Engineering / Design company.

I agree

Missouri limits small claims to $5,000 which is ridiculously out of date. But, if you’ve seen any of our legislators on TV, it shouldn’t surprise you.

Only way? So not true… Are you familiar with a Mechanic’s Lein or private debt collectors (my personal favorite)?

@@jeffparisse4202 The only way you're getting that lein paid is small claims court.

@@jeffparisse4202 hey, thanks for that! It’s been over six months since I completed work, so I can’t file a Mechanic’s Lien in Missouri (for a $5 fee!), but will be able to file a regular lien once I have a judgement in my favor. The law here sounds specific to the construction trade: “Missouri Statute 429.005 et seq. grants general contractors, subcontractors, suppliers, and laborers the ability to assert a mechanic's lien for labor and materials provided to or incorporated into a property if the lien is properly filed within six months of the last date of work by the contractor/subcontractor.“

@@jeffparisse4202 For the vast majority of people a mechanic's lean is either not legal or is not possible do to what the payment is over. As for privet dept collectors that could cost FAR MORE than just going to court with a lawsuit and be far less affective that is why there is a small clams court.

Okay I Believe You (no I don't.)

I also buy comms and almost always pay full up front!

Yeah and he would never get anything done. That is why he works alone in his shop and does not have his shop at his home. No distractions. Yeah it would be cool just to sit there see what he is working on and chat.

Some people are really dumb and refuse to put in a tiny bit more effort, as if it is all about money but not about building a good reputation in a circle.

​​@@IAMNOTRANAbusiness is all about money. I go home to my family or go out with friends, know all the old ladies on my walk with my dog in my neighborhood, im good on friends and fostering relationships. I'm not putting in extra non paid work so you maybe in the future might think about possibly paying me more.

I'm really curious, what makes the two so complimentary?

Wow, haven’t heard that one before!

I really miss TechShop. They had all the tools and facility

@Mindgamescc Akron makerspace has everything from cnc lasers for wood, 3D printers, sewing machines, and jewelry making equipment. Full wood and metal shops. I need to free up a Thursday to go when they have their open house.

These days tradies want profit and for you to pay for all their equipment lol

Bankruptcy is the worst! One of my clients went belly-up with $4k in outstanding invoices, but because it was nontangible goods it was not a priority in the payoff pecking order. It was outrageous to receive regular mailed updates from the bankruptcy attorney for FOUR YEARS and know they could have easily paid ALL their creditors and have money to spare, with the money that instead paid the attorneys.

Yup, the nuts and bolts of the real world are tough.

Very wise words here!

In the U.S., Small Claims Courts are state courts, not Federal. The maximum amount of an award varies greatly state to state.

between 2,500 and 25,000 depending on the state. Sometimes it depends on whether it's an individual vs a business, some have a flat rate. Many are a flat rate but have exceptions with unlimited rate, like if it's to recover personal property or an unlawfully withheld security deposit.

the KZfaq channel Accounting Stuff is THE BEST. so good so practical.

This is very poorly written lol. I have no clue what you mean. Seems like it adds up to 125%

@@Trenz0 might want to check your math there high speed, 50+25+25= 100, I changed it just for you so you can understand better

@@ericsparkman3645 Not sure what it said before, but in my initial read it also looked like 50% + 25% + 50% + 25% = 150%. Had to do another read-through to realize that second 50% you called out was the _project_ progress, not the *payment* progress!

@@DylanBFishkeeper I’m really sorry if my response came across and snarky, it was not the best day and probably not the best time to respond.

​@@Trenz0idiot lmao

Oh no! Sorry to hear that.

It's even worse when it's a friend too, there's supposed to be a level of understanding and trust there, I know first hand how that's like

You learned your lesson the hard way but he didn't! Next guy who tries that, just rob them from the thing again "yeah you paid for my time but not for materials" and see their face turn. I've seen websites taken down, art shredded or returned to its maker, wooden floors ripped up, I've even seen someone take an excavator to an entire building because the client refused to pay.. when it comes to people abusing relative lawlessness in smaller business.. they gotta know its a double edged sword.

@@BorisEysbroek heh yup. All three

​Maybe your "friends" weren't friends but rather shitty acquaintances?

oh goodness yes. "But you'll get exposure!" yeah, like I can eat exposure or pay rent with exposure.

This is the WORST with non-profits like schools and churches. "You can just write it off!" BUT you can't write off labor. So if you are willing to under-charge on a job you're doing for a school, church, or non-profit to build your portfolio/equipment stock DO NOT call it FREE LABOR!!! Tell them/write up a contract that the MATERIALS are a donation and the fees they are paying are for labor OR make it that the end final PRODUCT is what's donated (for instance with a website). Because you can donate materials, or a final product and write that off on taxes, but NOT labor!

@joinglegamer9898 Once had a plumber fix my shower but instead of payment he asked for a positive yelp review. I know it's not the norm but it does happen.

Best way to explain something

Try to change the model, get pay upfront or when you show up for the gig!

@@williamlouie569 I'm in a union! They set the standards that admittedly still suck.

small claims goes both ways too fyi

As someone who commissioned a fair amount of art, a lot of artists are fickle to deal with. It's especially fun when they give you a timeline, fail to adhere to it, and then give excuses every time you ask them for updates. Before you know it, you are getting the product a full year later than expected, assuming they didn't just run off with the money.

Had this happen to a friend. Commissioned art and paid in full up front. Ended up having to chase it up for almost a year after the due date getting different excuses each time. Asked for the money back and they said they didn't have it. Eventually got something back they had clearly rushed and was not close to what was asked for. Friend ended up just accepting it and moving on, even though what they needed it for was long past.

Oh, really good point.

💯 that would be