How To Determine If Your Water Will Cause Scaling in Espresso Machines

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7 жыл бұрын

Learn how to determine if your water will cause scaling in espresso and bean to cup coffee machines. Marc from WholeLatteLove.com shows you how to use the Langelier Saturation Index to find out if your tap water will cause scale to form in your machine. Find out how to get information about your water to plug into an online LSI calculator. Marc also covers options for correcting your water to reduce an/or eliminate scale deposits.
Online Langelier Saturation Index Calculator: (updated link)
www.cleanwaterstore.com/resou...
BWT Bestmax Premium Inline Ion-Exchange Filter System:
www.wholelattelove.com/bwt-be...
BWT Bestsave M Anti-Scale Drop-in Pad Filters for Reservoir Fed Machines:
www.wholelattelove.com/bwt-be...
Video: How To Make SCA Spec Brew Water with Low Scale Potential:
• How To Make Basic SCA ...

Пікірлер: 48

@vash47 7 жыл бұрын

awesome! im waiting for the next video on how to figure it out by myself

@Wholelattelovepage 7 жыл бұрын

Hi v, Thanks for the comment. Testing video coming in the next week or so.

@SuperDave21 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks Marc

@Wholelattelovepage 7 жыл бұрын

Hi SuperDave, You are welcome. Thanks for the comment!

@Tracks777 7 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed your video :)

@Wholelattelovepage 7 жыл бұрын

Hi MBB, Happy to hear that and thanks for the comment!

@adcampo7601 6 ай бұрын

Great content! I'm getting scale in my steam boiler even through I have a plumbed water filter. I've been told that scale can build up in a steam boiler if you're not regularly draining it.

@Wholelattelovepage 6 ай бұрын

Hi ad, Yes, it is important to turn over water in the steam boiler on a regular to prevent concentration of minerals there. What type of plumbed filter are you using. Most do nothing to reduce calcium content. BWT has filter options which exchange calcium for magnesium. That keeps mineral level up without causing scale.

@adcampo7601 6 ай бұрын

Thanks. I’m using Homeland, but thinking of switching to BWT. Since I already have all the plumbing in, do you have a basic kit with just be housing and filter? I assume they work on the same quick connect piping.

@snowman7234 4 жыл бұрын

I would really love to see a complete A to Z home installation of an inline water filtration system for a rotary plumbed machine, like a Rocket Mozzafiato R. The BWT looks like a great solution but looks confusing and risky to install myself... I'm not a plumber and I have no clue what line pressure is required, what goes where, what does what, how to test it once installed, what not to do, etc. etc. So yea, a COMPLETE installation guide with step by step instructions would be fantastic!

@Wholelattelovepage 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Snowman, Thank you for the video request! We do have a lengthy install video here for BWT inline filter system: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p7R1drqUqbSreY0.html It will give you a detailed look at what is involved. We do plan on updating this video as the head which the filter screws into has changed slightly since the video was made. If anything the new filter head makes install easier. Marc

@jeffthomas912 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Marc. Thank you for great content. I just purchased a Profitec Pro 600 from WLL and want to be sure I’m using the best water to prevent scale build up. If using the BWT filter for the resivoir, can I just use water from the tap, or bottled spring water? I’m assuming anything other than distilled or RO water would be OK? Thank you.

@soyoungschaedel6781 2 жыл бұрын

Hi, I just bought used LA San marco flexa espresso machine. It was sit in the restaurant for a while. As soon as I have bought it, I have been cleaning this machine for 3 straight days with vinegar , tablets and factory reset cleaner. My problem is cleaning the ruber water suction tube in the water reservoir tank. I found some mold like dark spot inside of tube. I used vinegar and try to clean it. I am afraid it will come back. I thought I should use bottle water for my espresso machine however after watch few KZfaqs Sounds like I'd better use tab water with water softner. It comes with water softener. One of KZfaq expert said I can reuse them after I soak them in the salt water and run the water through them. Is it right? Looks like I can replace the actual water softener grains. where can I buy them?

@darrengough4400 Жыл бұрын

Great video! Assuming I replaced the in reservoir filter as advised by the manufacturer, could I expect to see the same performance as the plumbed in version?

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi DG, Yes but depends on the type in reservoir filter. In-reservoir pad filters like the one linked below require 12 hour soak time to treat the water: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter There are in reservoir filters like this one which work with some machines which treat water on use and require no soak time: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestcup-m-package Marc

@rodrigoramos3524 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Marc, I'm currently using third wave water in my La Marzocco Gs3 with good results. I've been reading a lot about this topic as I want to both get cheaper water and as well even better tasting espresso. There is one very knowledgeable chemistry professor that suggests in the Home Barista forum that potassium bicarbonate is a very good additive that will have zero hardness (therefore zero scale buildup) and as well will reduce sourness in the cup. Have you ever had a chance to try this vs the traditional Baking soda + epsom salt?

@Wholelattelovepage 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Rodrigo, I have not tried potassium bicarbonate. I need to do some research on that! If you give it a try, please let me know how it works out.

@rodrigoramos3524 6 жыл бұрын

Whole Latte Love Sure! I just got my 1lb of KHCO3. Tomorrow I'll be doing some taste tests comparing it against third wave water. The coffee is Sweet Maria's Ethiopesque Blend, very lightly roasted.

@TheCoffeeField 7 жыл бұрын

If I'm using Third Wave Water, will I still need to descale frequently or use a BWT filter?

@Wholelattelovepage 7 жыл бұрын

Hi G, Hard to say. I'm familiar with third wave water but they don't seems to publish actual mineral levels of the product. My guess is their Espresso packs may produce some scaling as most espresso water is harder. If using their Classic packs I'm guessing it's closer to an SCA spec water profile which produces minimal scale. FYI, you can make an SCA profile water at much lower cost than commercial re-mineralization products. Baking soda, epsom salts etc are couple pennies a gallon to do it yourself. Here's or video showing a basic DIY: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html

@euci3207 4 жыл бұрын

would you recommend using the at home water solution mixture then pouring it into the bwt pitcher?

@Wholelattelovepage 4 жыл бұрын

Hi eug, If referring to my recipe for SCA spec brew water and starting with distilled or pure RO treated water the BWT pitcher is not needed. Minerals in the SCA recipe provided primarily by magnesium which is less likely to cause scaling than calcium. On the other hand, if your tap water is reasonable you can just use the BWT pitcher. Marc

@armchaircinema 3 жыл бұрын

Hi great videos mate,and thanks to your video on Profitec 500 pd, I purchased one yesterday. Just your thoughts on do I need a water filter or softner, if my water is ok with this machine. Await your reply. Thank you

@Wholelattelovepage 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Walter, Thanks for the kind comment and question. I do recommend a water filter. How urgent a filter is needed depends on your source water quality. If it's considered "hard" with high mineral levels then you should definitely be filtering to reduce mineral level. You want some mineral in brew water to support flavor and avoid over-extraction. So do not use pure RO or distilled water. My preferred solution are BWT products which use patented ion-exchange technology which replaces some calcium with magnesium. Use BWT products properly and scale will not form in your machine. They have drop in pad filters for reservoirs, pitcher, plumbed in solutions and more. Check out their products and learn more here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/water-filters?_=pf&pf_v_brand=BWT%20water%2Bmore Marc

@armchaircinema 3 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc,thank you for your quick reply,only need your expertise,which should I use for my profitec 500 pid,the BWT water jug or the pouches in the tank. Thank you very very much Cheers from downunder Walter

@TheLemonyOne 5 жыл бұрын

If our tap water falls within that +- 1 range is it still worth getting the extra equipment, or would it be ok to just use the tap water and service it every so often to clear the mild scaling?

@Wholelattelovepage 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Cuan, At an LSI of +1 scale is slightly likely to form. If your machine is relatively easy to descale (it's not a dual boiler), you don't mind doing the descaling and you are happy with the flavor then extra filtering is not needed. Marc

@lucaswaterhouse 6 жыл бұрын

I'm searching for the perfect brew water. Currently use your simple brew water recipe, adding sodium bicarb and mag sulfate to RO water has certainly improved my coffee's flavor but it still needs work. Is the absence of calcium detrimental to the final flavor? When can we expect you to post a more detailed recipe? Do you know any good resources for water quality education?

@Wholelattelovepage 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Luke, Happy to hear the simple water recipe has improved your flavor! My overarching goal is water which is less likely to cause scale without sacrificing flavor. My research leads me to believe water re-mineralized with magnesium is less likely to cause scaling than water water with mineral content from calcium. But some calcium is okay and will not cause scale at lower levels although it does depend on some other water chemistry. As to taste difference...Well, that gets into the realm of subjective judgement. It's hard to quantify and IMO brewing variables other than slight mineral level changes are far easier to detect taste wise. The Specialty Coffee Association has this book: scaaeducation.org/bookstore/the-water-quality-handbook/

@lucaswaterhouse 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@andrewstrout7347 6 жыл бұрын

I’m using a Expobar lever Prosumer machine that has been in use for 5 years. Can I run an anti-scaling solution like durgol through my espresso machine to remove any scale build up

@Wholelattelovepage 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Andrew, Thanks for the question. Here's a link to our support wiki with descaling instruction for the Expobar Lever: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Expobar_Office_Lever#Descaling One thing I'll mention...if the machine has not been descaled in 5 years you run the risk of large scale deposits breaking free and causing problems. Risk level depends on your source water hardness, use of filters and how much the machine has been used. In average use 5 years is a very long time to go without descaling unless your water is very soft or machine has had minimal use.

@curiousbob7975 2 жыл бұрын

What do you recommend for a commercial machine running on rainwater/tankwater. Since no hardness present and ph is somewhat low

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi DL, Thanks for the question. You do want some minerals (hardness) in your brew water. Ultra pure water at low pH can be corrosive over time to metal components in a machine. Additionally, it will over-extract coffee causing bitter flavor. I recommend re-mineralizing your water. Here a video showing how to do that using baking soda and Epsom salts: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html Marc

@hewanadamu3671 2 жыл бұрын

hi mark ....I want to reduce scaling form happen in side of bottle washer machine

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Hewan, To reduce scaling you need to control the amount of minerals in the water the machine uses. Marc

@williamtan987 3 жыл бұрын

Hei Marc, I have eSpring water treatment system from Amway. Is it sufficient enough or i still need to install a BWT filtration? Thanks

@Wholelattelovepage 3 жыл бұрын

Hi William, Thanks for the question. Unfortunately I can't give you an answer as I'm not familiar with that water treatment system. If it's the type of system which does particle and carbon filtration only (common) then it's likely you would need additional filtration to reduce calcium while maintaining a proper mineral level for flavor. But that need would depends on the hardness of water before treatment. If you know water is hard before treatment then it may need additional filtration. Marc

@williamtan987 3 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage what if i use penquin pitcher in between? Will it be helpful?

@0maybae 7 жыл бұрын

What about well water?

@Wholelattelovepage 7 жыл бұрын

Hi Strafin, Most well water tends to be rather hard. But not always the case. Most who have well water know if it's hard or not - hard water stains etc. I would suggest having your water tested to determine how hard it is.

@sunnymoon369 6 жыл бұрын

Can I just use distilled water?

@Wholelattelovepage 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Sunny, Thanks for the question. Distilled water makes sense on the surface but... water with no minerals make coffee and espresso that doesn't taste good. Regular water is a good solvent. Purified mineral free water is an even better solvent. When used to make coffee or espresso it causes over-extraction resulting in bitter and other flavors taints. Over time, ultra-pure water will have detrimental effects on espresso making equipment - it does not play nice with metals! One reason why you will never see water purified by reverse osmosis or distillation in metal containers or pipes.

@calisson47 4 жыл бұрын

What about a BWT using water filtering pitcher?

@Wholelattelovepage 4 жыл бұрын

Hi c, Thanks for the question. The BWT pitcher when used as directed should not cause scale in an espresso machine while providing a mineral level needed to prevent over-extraction. It's what I use in the studio for all my reservoir fed machines. Marc

@calisson47 4 жыл бұрын

Whole Latte Love So does that mean you don’t use descaling products because you have no need for them?

@glenwgilbert6101 6 жыл бұрын

Mark, just viewed this video. The web address (you show at the bottom of the video at the end of the video) to the LSI calculator is broken. Here's where it resides as of today www.cleanwaterstore.com/resource/calculators/langlier/

@Wholelattelovepage 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Glen, Thank you for the link update!