I'll have to make a guide for it 😂

With perfect weathering

@@sethera6049 🤣👍

Yes there definitely is.

The people doing it simply have their own interest / cause doing so : either promoting 3D printing as the solution for everything (it's a useful tool giving interesting options, yes, but no it's not good for "everything") or not liking GW prices. That they think it's relevant to this particular video (which is more about specifically "how to remove these annoying plastic blocks from GW LI marines") is their mistake. It's pretty obvious it's meant for people actually buying these miniatures from GW, not the crowd 3D printing or buying from other sources.

​@@sentaijustice9207agreed. As an aside, 3d printing is great, but people acting like everyone should get into it are ignoring the fact that the initial investment is still pretty high if you want a decent printer and it's a skill and hobby in and of itself. I barely have enough hobby time for modelling and painting let alone learning how to properly 3d print as well

From my understanding as an outsider to 40k (but not the hobby as a whole), Most of their side games end up completely abandoned and forgotten. Aeronautica Imperialis and Adeptus Titanicus come to mind.

@@CommandantLennon Haven't the models been added to the game? I still plat titanicus but think the new stream lined rules in this game will benefit titans and aircraft. Ill be ignoring the army building rules and playing with all my titans and knights and auxillia or marines allies

Sir, this is the internet, please cease and desist with the common sense thank you.

…except, given that they are tiny blobs of infantry, trading off for ‘dynamic poses’ isn’t really worth the giant blobs of plastic- especially on pale schemes like the death guard. They could have either made them two-piece, which is fiddly, or made the poses on the infantry not 1-to-1 to their larger counterparts.

@@Geryfon it’s really not common sense as a solution, though.

​@@toastle8005id argue having a boring static pose like the old minis is worse than loosing a bit of cast quality. But yeh either way the point it you cant have all 3, you have to pick 2. Not having to assemble 100+ models per box and the ability to paint on sprue is a big advantage, so i think with thay in mind i think they took the right option, you wont notice these casting problems at this scale

GW could have done better

I've drilled barrels and exhaust stacks for nearly everything else!

Exactly. The way people are responding you'd think these were 28mm.

for me it's about paying for a premium product but not getting the quality expected

Small or not, I'd say it's still corner-cutting that shouldn't really be expected at GW's prices, especially since there's ways to work around the issue that they've known how to do since the '90s (flatter poses, making the minis multi-part, using 3+ part moulds). They just chose not to.

@@makinote Idk what people expect the quality to be at this scale then? The problem here is that there are just physical limits to the manufacturing process used. No amount of money you throw at it is gonna fix that. Maybe they should have done these in resin or some other more forgiving medium. People really have forgotten how much injection moulding has improved compared to what we had 10 or 20 years ago...

@@kettusnuhveli341 I would expect that, if there are this limitations, then design a different standing so those artifacts doesn't happen ... like the terminators

Individually I agree but for me there's something about having a huge army of tiny infantry all painted uniformly. Its something special to behold in my opinion and why I'll be buying this game.

I don’t think so. I’m actually still worried they might be too large compared to the tanks but I don’t have my box in hand yet

They're bigger than the old epic infantry.

It's really a non-issue. If you look at how some have done it - they've just painted it in a way that makes it hard to detect at the tabletop level. These guys are so small, that you're unlikely to notice them.

@@kaibe5241 perhaps, but they didn’t need to do QUITE so many of the more dynamic poses on the infantry, where there’s two huge chunks of plastic between the limbs… painting in paper colour schemes makes it difficult to work around the block of plastic, unless you try what this fellow’s suggesting. They ARE small, but this also didn’t really need to happen, when there were solutions.

That's not true at all. It was either this, or you have multi-part 9mm space marines. No fucking ty.@@toastle8005

​@@kaibe5241 It depends. To simply play, it's probably okay. For the collection (yes, I think we can collect figurines of this scale, make "small" dioramas) while trying to paint as best as possible, I find it embarrassing to have to do trompe l'oeil: because it will never be anything other than that, trying to create an illusion with paints while these "big" plastic chunks (compared to the rest of the figure, they are big) are here anyway. 30 years ago, it could have been understandable, now GW is the leader in the figurine market, for the price of the sprues, they could very well have made the figurines in 2 pieces like the missile launchers, especially when the competitors from 3D printers do not have this problem.

More people are interested in gaming than the hobby side, as evidenced by the mountain of grey at your local hobby stores.@@superpatatine4415 Just gotta think through this - on GW's side, it didn't make any sense whatsoever to force people to work with 3-4mm pieces (if that) for the troops. What they -could- have done however, is make the poses more static, and it would solve both problems, but also result in less dynamic armies.

That still leaves you with plenty left!

Yes! I already have a few on my Patreon, but there will be plenty coming for KZfaq too!

@demonrich that's great man thanks 👍

Thats a great idea!

Seen the models in the cabinets at Warhammer World and you literally struggle to see it after it's all painted up from that height. Maybe folks of Rich's talent who will do close up photos but for average Joe out there, it makes 0 difference.

Yeah, that’s a strength of printing Epic models people designed for the past ten years, when GW wasn’t supporting it- there’s a lot of really cool armour marks and legion-specific infantry :)

Funny to talk about "true scale" with space marines, it always varies depending on the person who sees "the true true scale". ^^ But yes, it's a great strength of 3D printing, you can adapt the size to your taste and easily mirror the poses if you'd like it - or modify it if you have a bit of knowledge with 3D sculpting softwares. However, I'm curious to see the results of your models once painted in every angle, just to see the easily seen damaged points of support removal that are undoubtly left on them. ^^

Thing is, the tiny tanks in LI don't have that problem at all. It's only really there for infantry models (specific marine models in particular) precisely because GW LI tanks are multi-parts.

That's because they already amortized the cost of their own 3D printing material, or they are into the 3D printing business themselves (makes sense to advertise for what they do for a living, after all). They don't really care for newcomers at all, they only speak for their own interest.

I was tempted, but once the models are on the base with a bit of rubble, it's really not a problem. Also, if you cut off the little mound then there isn't much contact on the base.

I kinda agree about rubble on bases .. the included bases are sculpted to look like smooth metal plates though which is also an odd stylistic choice by gw. But yeah i will totally be covering them w rubble.

Printy Boiz Unite!

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Sure, you just spend more time removing the supports from individual infantry models, that's all. ;)

@@sentaijustice9207 Certainly can be! ^_^ Good supports come off effortlessly though, and for small scale, they're usually printed straight on the plate, so some minis won't have any at all.

@@riclacy3796 Printing straight on the plate only work if they are on a base, and even so you easily damage it while removing it from the plate, unless they are incurved for easy removal (which means you easily notice it in game ^^). No support models are those with specific static poses designed to be printed gradually from bottom to top, and thus means repeated poses / no dynamic poses. It's not the same quality as supported models as well. Supports can come off effortlessly, but can also leave a mark (and that shows as well easily at this scale !). But for most people, it indeed works. Just like GW LI models. ^^

Well, there are ways to make this work, either as multi-part models or 3-part molds. It's just that that decisions cost money and increase time to get them to the table, so GW made a risk decision and opted not to. Frankly, these cost enough as it is, if this is the sacrifice I need to make to get these, I'll take it.

There are two valid suggestions: 1) the infantry could have consisted of legs, torso, backpack, and then weapon, arms, shoulders; more work, but seen on the Rocket Launcher marines; or 2) print them in poses that minimise particularly large chunks of plastic between noticeable areas. Some of these sculpts do really well! Some of them look like they’re caught in a net. These absolute COULD have been done, throwing no extra money at it at all with the second solution. It’s not a valid excuse to say they ‘couldn’t have done better’, but it’s still okay to like the models. 😊 …or 3), resin printing of small kits, as this removes the weaknesses of injection moulding entirely. Injection moulding is never ideal for things this small.

@@toastle8005 oh trust me as someone who’s big into 3d printing I’d wish GW just gave us the STLs, but they’ll never bent the knee. And having the legs, torso and backpack separate would be a nightmare if you ask me. I’ve already lost half of the voidshields on my titanicus titans… 💀

@@kettusnuhveli341 oh, definitely not separate, having those pieces as one half XD yeah, that’d be a nightmare, I prefer one piece with clever moulding, or the ever-brilliant solution of printing I really do wish they’d have just gone the STL, route, too…

​@@kettusnuhveli341I get what your saying but if they just sold the stls how would they make any profit from it realistically? As soon as they did, people would be selling their own prints of them and whatnot and gw have then basically made a game for no financial benefit. Would that be awesome? Of course, but unfortunately that's the nature of the market driven system a company operates on. There are definitely money grubbing practices that gw can rightfully be criticised for but I don't think switching to making stls when their entire company is structured around producing model kits specifically is a reasonable thing to is a reasonable or logical thing to expect from them, especially when, let's face it, the vast majority of hobbyists aren't into 3d printing themselves

This is a deliberate design choice, from backfilling a gap to avoid an undercut. My guess is they were either told to pose them like the full-scale MKVI Tacticals while still being single-part, or the sculptor didn't know if it'd be resin or plastic until the last minute and rushed to backfill everything once they found out.

5:08 I'm surprised they didn't sell a special blade tip for this angled cut. "Now you can easily fix our design issues with expensive miniatures with the Citadel Imperialis Paragon Blade!" Kinda like how they "fixed" Finecast by selling liquid greenstuff that dried out within minutes of purchase LOL

There are over 200 models in a $200 box, are we really expecting 0 clean-up on over 50 infantry models at less than $1/model? Its almost impossible to see in real life and only and issue for the top end modelers… sounds like people just want something to complain about

@@Breakingbad_habits And yet not an issue for people I see printing them. I was holding out for these models instead of printing but I’m finding that hard. Considering the detail I see on other modern kits this is disappointing for the cost.

@@Fortunes.Fool. That's because people printing them don't tell you how much time they spend removing delicately the supports from the printed miniatures (or how many fails / damaged miniatures they had to put into the bin) to achieve that "perfect picture" result. That's the truth behind 3D printing : it's not a magical solution. It's more time wasting than Richard does in this video. And that's why what Richard shows us here is interesting in more than one way for people not wanting to deal with 3D printing cleaning time.

@@sentaijustice9207 I’ve got plenty of experience designing, printing and cleaning up my own terrain, tank turrets, and Titanicus scale weapons, I just don’t have a resin printer because of the smell. I’m not talking about magic, I’m talking about GW’s price point for these shapes. I’m seeing comparable or better 8mm resin minis for less than half was GW is charging. If I want to cut an exhaust vent for my own resin printer, I can print them myself for even less.

3d prints and metal minis need cleaning too, though. It's also much harder to "fix" the same way here afterwards.

Metal minis have as many, if not more, compromises for the casting process because of the lack of depth you can have in a vulcanised rubber mould.

Printing doesn't fix anything. What, you think you don't have to clean the 3D printed models ? For the result of what you can see from 3D printed models with dynamic poses, they need supports and supports must be removed from the printed miniature afterwards. The work needed to clean printed model without damaging them (it's really easy at this scale, especially with inadequate resin) asks easily as much time than doing what Richard does in this video - if not more. 3D printing is cheap once the cost of everything needed to print is amortized (the printer, the resin - need a flexible and more expensive one for this scale or everything will break far too easily, but also all you need to clean your models - nothing comes magically ready in a perfect state from the printer...also the files, because not everyone gives them for free and making your own asks you to learn how to 3D sculpt, how to use a 3d sculpt software...and also how to use proper proportions at this scale). If you buy everything just for Legion Imperialis...it's not necessarily a lot cheaper and certainly not less time wasting than buying from GW. 3D printing is not a magical solution. It's an alternative that gives a lot of options, but also has its own disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage of it is the time it needs for you to achieve that result. Buying from a store is certainly more expensive, but at least other people spent that time producing that result for you in your place. That's mostly what you pay for it.

Sure let me just invest into a 3d printer that's actually good enough to produce a good model at this scale and learn how to 3d print during my already limited hobby time. 3d printing is great for people interested in learning it etc, but if it isn't something you want to invest time and money into, a guide like this is really useful. 3d printing zealots really need to realise that not everyone is willing or interested in that side of the hobby and need to stop acting like everyone who isn't is some kind of moron who hasn't learned some secret cheat code to getting models

you have no idea what you are talking about, do you?@@sentaijustice9207

@@Vorpal_Wit I own a 3D printer and my shelves are litterally full of self 3D printed miniatures. I also do my own 3D sculpts. Sure, I totally have no idea nor experience what time and investment you need to have a good result at the scale of a LI army. Feel free to disagree, but I certainly don't need to needlessly attack GW on that matter. Reason why I did order these LI plastic models is because I enjoy building plastic models much more than 3D printing my own at that scale. Even if it's technically cheaper for me because I already amortized the cost of my 3D printer a long time ago. On the other hand, if LI goes FW for future releases, then at that time I'll have no incentive to buy FW models rather than 3D printing my own. Because FW models won't be in good ol' GW plastic.

No thanks, for the tiny difference it makes at this scale (and the larger moulds/increase cost that would entail) I don’t want to have to stick hundreds of tiny arm to hundreds of tiny bodies.

The way the gun projects into the models body + also (IMO) the plastic blob between the feet

They're really not that bad, but one of them (if you look on the thumbnail on the left) has a big chunk of plastic between the gun and shoulder pad.

They needed to backfill some gaps so parts wouldn't get stuck when releasing the sprues from the moulds, and it's destroyed or distorted some of the details. Like the big block of plastic between the left guy's bolter and left shoulder pad, and some odd "stretchy" warping between some of the guns and left legs. It could be avoided by making the poses flatter (they knew how to do this well in the '90s), using 3+ part moulds, or making them multipart, but GW apparently thought the loss of detail was an acceptable trade-off. Still a conspicuous lack of side-on promo shots for these guys though :D

I'm surprised the blobby mound isn't the problem being focused on, that bothers me a lot more. I wonder how much of this I will be able to cut away. Also, I hope I can get low profile terrain bases of the right size from somewhere instead of the metal plate bases they ship with.

Victrix can do detailed ww2 at 12mm, we should expect more from GW. Have to say I’m really disappointed in the LI infantry

They aren’t broken. They aren’t expensive. Move on.

@@TetsugakuSan not broken you say? In a video about fixing it? You calling the video maker an idiot or something? And not expensive? Are you some kind of criminal who don't have to work to make money? Yes I'll move on, for I'm not stupid enough to even pay 50 cents for these garbage lol. James makes some good products but this just ain't it.

@@jellydamgood Building your models is litterally part of the modelism business model. If people do this for cars, why wouldn't they do it for tiny space marines ? It just means it's not the thing for you, and that's perfectly fine. No one is forcing you to buy a product you don't like.

@@sentaijustice9207 why you pretending the product isn't faulty? The mold injection process has clearly failed. Just because you pretend it isn't real won't make it go away.

@@jellydamgood It hasn't failed, it's a compromise for plastic production in one piece while having dynamic poses. Just because you pretend it is a failure doesn't make it a reality.

Don’t be daft, Jaq… there are other ways around egregious blocks of plastic between limbs, while still keeping it one piece. The posing of the marines (which, as you point out, are small enough for this) shouldn’t have been as one-to-one with the big striding positions of the MK VI kit. It translates poorly, and the worst of the poses have a huge stretched chunk of plastic in very obvious places. This could be avoided. And you wanna know something funny about your remark? The rocket launcher marines are already two parts :P …which kind of takes the legs out from under your argument, doesn’t it? Don’t be daft, and don’t be rude, Jaq. These people have genuine criticism, of genuine and avoidable design flaws. No need to be butthurt. (After all, it’s hardly a *big* deal, is it…? 😁)

@@toastle8005 Poses are definitely part of the problem, indeed. Solaris Auxilia do have the same blocks, but the poses are hiding them more easily. However, they look more static as a result. Marines do look more varied when you see the company as a whole. It's a compromise to have that visual result while avoiding multi-part models on a cheap unit that is intended to be numerous in your collection (and thus is much more bothersome to build individually because of their small size and there are way more than vehicles in comparison), that is all. Some are fine with it, others aren't. It's fine, no product is made to please everyone.

would also be cheaper than getting the box set, just use the current HH rules if you have them just scale down the attack and movement.

If you have a lot more time to remove the supports or already bought everything needed to print that is easily above a couple boxes of Legion Imparialis models, sure. Or buy from 3D printer stores, and it's not that cheap either while still needing you to clean afterwards because of what's left on the model - if you're not disappointed with the result's quality in the end. Everything comes with a price, 3D printing is not a magical solution.

"most other company" is some strong meat riding.

I was going to respond with some with a friendly racial slur, then I realized this is corpotube and they don't take bantz that kindly here! Right, with that disclaimer out the way, you have no idea just how much the "other companies" have caught up do you? take a look some time, you might be surprised. And these marines look like shit compared to previous 6mm EPIC marines GDubbs decades ago, let alone compared to the competition *now* , in the same scale.

Yeah, that's not true. GW is still top tier, but that top tier is getting pretty crowded.

…no, they don’t look ‘better than most larger models from other companies’, and that is an absurd claim no matter how much you love the company. Any model company can provide better detail at 28 compared to 8mm. Don’t exaggerate to the point of looking daft, mate. The point is that it didn’t need to be an issue, and there are clever ways around the worst parts of 1-part infantry. Instead, the LI infantry is determined to copy the exact poses of the larger kits, and the long, striding poses suffer for it. You can be excited for a product, but don’t be unreasonable or petty when genuine criticisms of shortcuts are levelled. They did, indeed, take shortcuts they didn’t need to. That doesn’t mean you can’t still use them if you want to.

@@riclacy3796 It's actually true for plastic miniatures. 3D sculpted ones always look great on renders, the printed result is often not as perfect. And if people think they can easily do the same cuts or use the same fix with tamiya glue on resin models than with GW plastic ...well, that just means they never did it. I did, I can tell the difference...and how bad it looks on the resin model, especially at this scale.

If you think these miniatures are no better than a Risk sculpt, then you never saw a Risk sculpt. But sure, 3D print all you want and believe you can spend less time cleaning your models than doing what Richard does in his video.

I agree you can't print better than this

@@bearsaroundhere Eh yes you can and have more details, there are companies that do nothing but epic scale minis.

@@yagsipcc287 do the legs snap after one game or two

@@bearsaroundhere no why would they? They are all based. There are videos on it here as well.

@@yagsipcc287 I've worked with a lot of home printed resin and it's horribly brittle

If they seperated them into 3 parts, I think I'd hate putting them together. They are way too small to put together comfortably. From what some youtubers have said, the tanks are already pretty hard to build because of their size, let alone every infantry model

100 models per box, and you want to assemble them?????

Total overkill in a game where infantry is cheap and intended to be filled in a big number to compensate their losses.

I mean, in the time it would take you to build one tiny guy like that at this scale you probably could have removed the chonk from a whole base worth of these marines lol

I build tweezer models, and it's just crappy. You might enjoy that, but this was about estimating what most people wanted to deal with, and GW absolutely picked the right side of the issue for most people. That is: minimal assembly for models that require 5 of them for one stand. You may disagree. The customers that sold out the core box sure don't.

@@BloomThat sure, but 99% of people are morons, doesn't make them right by any stretch of the imagination.

@@BloomThat where gw is concerned, a box set selling out isn't indicative of anything. Lately it's a tactic of theirs to under produce copies, to drive sales by producing a false economy. All in the effort to make people think it's popular and drive more sales. In the end, no model in 2023 should these types of horrendous undercut issues. There's ways and means around it and gw clearly didn't want to do that, coupled with the plastic wastage of the sprues containing nearly as much plastic as the models you make for the infantry, you end up paying for not much at all. This is why a lot of people turn to 3D printing these days and in doing what they've done here, gw only has themselves to blame.

@@dominicpizzey1515 3D printing models at this scale have the same time wasting problem. The more details you want, the more supports you need - and the more time you spend in their assembly. It's a simple matter of how much time you're willing to spend to produce a model that is intended to be numerous in a game where it dies easily and where individual details are totally lost in the scale of the battle around. Sure, people can buy a single box for Golden Demon exposition models, but that's not the first purpose the product exists.

@@sentaijustice9207 printing is about settings and knowing what your printer is capable of, I have seen first hand printed epic scale infantry without supports of the current gen printers and they're more defined than gws attempts.

Let's face it, though : for 3D printing, there are 2 options : either you design the model file so that it needs no support and it has too filled holes / less dynamic poses so that it can be printed without it, or either you use similar dynamic poses as GW and you'll need supports that have to be removed afterwards...which means it needs more time afterwards to remove them carefully without damaging the printing miniatures, time similar to what Richard does in this video in the end. It is not a magical solution that solves it all.

​@@sentaijustice9207Except that a competently prepared STL can be removed from their supports with next to no cleanup, especially at this scale. Plus, on the off chance that you do damage the model whilst removing supports, you can easily print another one with adjusted supports since it costs literal pennies to so, rather than buying an entire new box of models should you ruin those.