It all depends on whether "The "Aluminator" rod has been fused and has melted with the base metal. Is the filler rod the same alloy as the aluminium tube? It is advertised as an alloy, but we don't know if it is different from the aluminium tube Bob is working with. If they are the same composition (or have the same melting point) and they are FUSED together, this is WELDING, if the rod contains different amounts of the alloy element (magnesium, silicon manganese, copper etc) and the melting point is (normally) lower, then we are looking at BRAZING if the base metal DOES NOT melt and fuse with the base metal. Pure aluminium is very ductile and not commonly used in any castings where strength is required. Mainly used in power lines. So all the aluminium alloys we will be working with are an alloy of some sort. Silicon brings down the melting temperature of the aluminium which makes it an excellent alloy rod for brazing, but if the base metal is also silicon aluminium alloy or has a similar melting temperature, then this is welding. Bob has melted the rod onto the base piece, but it did not melt the base metal.. Brazing and welding are not exclusive but can overlap. Unlike steel, if you apply a little too much heat to aluminium alloy base metal, your weld will be on the floor. If Bob had left the flame sit too long in one spot, the brazing would have turned to welding and if the flame wasn't moved away, to a fused blob on the floor. Now think of soldering a solder made plate. This is technically welding. Yes you can weld solder but because it has such a low melting temperature, "they" call it soldering. When you solder copper, what is it? It is brazing. If you are good enough to melt the base metal as you are adding the filling rod, you are welding even if the two metals are slightly different. There are many GREY areas in welding brazing and soldering, which is why it's better not to overthink them.

He melted the base metals together. It is welding.

@@moto_rad Had another close look at the video. No he did not melt the base metal. He brought it up to the melting temperature of the filler rod. The rod packet clearly states flux coated aluminium JOINING alloy. These filler rod have silicon and a much lower melting temperature than aluminum. So this is commonly called brazing. Aluminum has to be well heated before brazing and welding. With the latter, a fine pointed flame is used and you focus the heat to one point where the puddle will appear and will be translucent. If you melt some alloy into rgis puddle, it is welding. It is tricky to use these rods for welding because the base metal has a higher melting point. More than the melting temperature of the rod. To weld you have to keep the filling rod more distant from the base metal and bring it in as the translucent puddle appears. Very easy to have the base metal collapse as you juggle flame and low melting point filler. Much easier to weld with a high melting temperature filler rod. In this video, the pipe is heated but not melted. With such a feathered broad flame, if the melting temperature of the base metal was reached, it would probably end up on the bench.

Mr Steven's, I have the same idea. I bought a clone Smith mini torch. Using flashback arrestors on the torch lines. My idea was to use it for making aluminum projects. Such as; I use an aluminum ramp to load euthanized pigs into my 4x4. The ramp is 100 percent riveted together. I plan on using the aluminum welding rods to make the ramp stronger and more durable. I need to practice before I take on this project. Do you have any set up suggestions.

Actually, I used acetylene for 20 years before switching to propane. The reason I did so is I had a hard time getting clean gas that would not contaminate my welds. It was weird, one day all was good, put on new bottles and welds turned black. Tried multiple new bottles. Installed an old bottle I had and everything was fine. I switched to propane as it is a cleaner gas, It works for the very small items I weld. If the aluminum was thicker it would not be hot enough. Yes there is a puddle. I tig and gas weld and braze. I feel that I can tell the difference between the two.The filler rod I use is not a low temp brazing rod you find on the net. It is an aluminum welding rod. You can cut the finished welds and on inspection, you cannot tell what is base metal and what is filler. All that said, call it what you want, I am simply demonstrating safely, permanently joining aluminum parts. Right or wrong I have used this product daily for 30 years with no failures.

It looks to me like the filler material has a very low melting point around 800° to a 1000° which would classify this process as soldering, brazing with the brass and bronze alloys takes a much higher temperatures around 1800° and up and usually brazing is done with dissimilar metals

100% correct Michael, it’s amazing how many KZfaq videos get this wrong. What gets me is that this guy looks like he should know the difference by now.

That was the conventionnal way of welding alu before TIG (heliarc invented 1942) and MIG invented far later. All the alu during WWII was welded by torch and fluoride flux.

You are correct, that is brazing as he never melted the base metal, just the filler metal.

It is brazing although not as strong as welding a brazing weld is still considerably strong if done right .

Those were my two comments as well. Seemed he did go back and watch the video before he posted it.

Yeah, I was just watching this and asking myself if this is technically welding or brazing.

Thank you!!

You can do both. I lay the rod perpendicular to the tube. Melt the rod slightly and forming multiple logs across the tube. Then you can carefully heat the material and slightly flow it. It takes practice as the melting point of the rod is just slightly less than the base metal.

Thank you, lots of comments about braze vs. weld. I doubt most commenters have tried it to see for themselves. The tip I am using is a Victor 3-W-1

You will not be able to get enough heat buildup with a torch. This rod is for stick welding so you could use a traditional welder. I think tig or mig would be best.

What kind of welding rods do you use for this I didn’t see where it mentioned that

@@arizona5253 I use MG400 from Messer.

Yeah, I was just asking myself if this was actually welding or brazing. Your comment might be a bit harsh Airon, but this seemed to me to be brazing using capillary action.

According to Messerweld, this is good for 1XXX, 3XXX. 5XXX. and 6XXX series. There's a data sheet online, it doesn't say much. MG welding products, or "Messerweld". They don't say what the alloy IS, which is a little odd and typical of welding products sold for "maintenance". This leads one to suspect that it's something common given a cute name and a higher price! The few Messer products I have tried worked very well by the way. I suspect that in this case what we have is an aluminum brazing alloy, something like Aluminum 12% Silicon, which you can buy. What we see here sure LOOKS like brazing, there's general heating and capillary flow, the base metal is NOT MELTING! I think it in every way fits the definition of brazing! I have done similar stuff using brazing wire and flux. The molten metal is very fluid and pulls through a joint easily. The action is not at all like welding!!!! You have to get that flux OFF of the material as soon as you can, from what I read. Other than that, it's a really cosmetic job.

@@leonardpearlman4017 thanks for responding. I also have used this type of rod on thin 22ga. aluminum quite successfully. Alumaloy and the stuff harbor freight sells. Everything clean and sanded and propane torch, good fitup with the idea of using capillary action. A sweeping motion with the flame and swiping motion of the filler metal along the joint works well. It helps to "tin" parts that have an awkward fitup. The thin base metal would become annealed yet the filler metal would be harder. It acts very much like soldering but a little fussy if things aren't absolutely sterile clean.

Propane is cleaner, it does not contaminate the weld like acetylene. Acetylene will work but it is often contaminated and produces very dirty/poor welds.

For the most part, no. You cannot get the metal hot enough. There are aluminum brazing rods on the market that work well with Map gas. This rod requires the metal be up to its melting point to add the filler.

Well you should probably be more careful 😅 Said the person who almost cut their own finger off a week ago because they don't have a safety guard on their grinder 😂

It is a weld. The filler is Aluminum. Imagine tig welding, except the torch is a flame instead to electric arc. The Flux is like your shielding gas.

Bob Steinmann thx ☺️

@@bobsteinmann5793 It certainly is not. The base material is not being melted, the rod is melting and being drawn into the joint by capillary action, i.e. a brazed joint.

the definition of brazing also has a melting temp. above 900 or 1000 degrees, welding is technically fusing base material with the same type of filler material

@@mr2981 Thank you, voice of reason! It's possible in some cases to WELD or BRAZE at will with all the same stuff! I have done this as a demonstration with brass and the popular LFB filler material. You can braze or weld two pieces of brass together with the same torch and the same rod, just depending on what you DO with the torch! I think M R is completely correct here. A brazed joint might be JUST what you want here, by the way! Very strong and neat. That darned flux is the only drawback.

nothing to do with strength. no metal was welded in this video.

I recommend trying it. Yes the filler rod melts at a slightly lower temp than the base. Most of the time the base metal is melting at the same time as you apply the rod. Correct there is no puddle, but you dont have that level of control with gas welding. I weld tig and gas and this too is a weld. It can be argued several ways, I say, try it and then let me know what you think.

Actually, That is exactly what I am doing here. This is not a low temp filler rod like so many you see on the market. The rod is aluminum alloy welding rod covered in flux to shield from oxidation.

@@bobsteinmann5793 hmm. I'll have to give it a try. If u don't mined me asking what psi did u. Use for propane.? & oxygen ?

@@bobsteinmann5793 what was psi of propane and oxy

@@keithyz3943 25 psi oxy 17 propane

In another situation, if this was used for example AS an electrode in arc welding (!) the arc would probably melt the base metal, and our rod would flow on to that and it would BE "Welding"!!! Here it's heated up and flows about and flows deep in to the joint like water I'm telling you, in a way more typical of soldering and brazing don't you think so? A nice strong cosmetic job I think we can all agree. The same thing might be done with standard aluminum brazing alloy (aluminum and 12 per cent silicon is common) and a little jar of aluminum brazing flux. What we see here is very nicely done, I don't mind repeating.

You mean brazing?

@@brittanywright9646 Nope it is Soldering, No Brass involved.

@@lostinspace280 Brass does not have to be involved when you braze.

Yes it is. This isnt a silver rod. He is melting aluminum together, and adding aluminum filler. Exact same thing as TIG.

most welding supply stores. I use Matheson.