Dude! I could listen to him spew bike fit knowledge all damn day! So much knowledge and just makes so much sense, once you hear him say it, you're like, well, yeah, of coarse! Many, many thanks, once again!
@robvtec Жыл бұрын
Thanks to this I adjusted 3mm back and the increase in comfort is immense. I was getting minor sores in the old position but they've vanished. Thank you.
@adammillsindustries.9 ай бұрын
Shame Neil is off the thread. Best bike fit advice on KZfaq.
@rrluthi1 Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure if it's the same for everyone, but for me I can instantly feel when the seat is too far forward, my body wants to stretch back naturally and I can even feel pretty accurately where I want the saddle to move to, based on my sit-bones relationship to the curve of the saddle. I suppose if you are using a flat saddle, it may not feel as clear. The hamstring burning that Neil mentions is another big giveaway.
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
Interesting to hear. Thanks for sharing on the thread Rudy.
@johnd156120 күн бұрын
I find the way I know my seat is too far forward is my foot engages the pedals at the arch, and when I move it back, it engages at the ball, which results in more power.
@__marshie Жыл бұрын
Hunt for the 3mm zone begins! 😓
@none5035 Жыл бұрын
In my case, I use a zero offset seatpost because the inseam is too small. If the saddle is pushed backwards, the angle of the hips is reduced so much that it is difficult to breathe. Instead, use a flat, long saddle and change positions frequently. Of course, the cleat setting is also pushed all the way back.
@none5035 Жыл бұрын
When viewed from the side, if a curved saddle is used, the sitting position is limited and sensitive to the fore-and-aft position of the saddle, but if a flat saddle is used, the sitting position is relatively free, so it is not significantly affected.
@arifazhari7598 Жыл бұрын
My case exactly, i use pro stealth curved. It was heck to set the set back
@davealston38815 ай бұрын
Outstanding humble and concise !
@yislam786ify8 ай бұрын
Brilliantly explained. Thank you. Exactly I'm having this problem, moved seat forward to reduce reach but only caused more problems, mostly arm pain. Looking to get a shorter stem. Thank you
@markusandersson13096 ай бұрын
Yeah you should never adjust reach by moving the saddle forward, adjust correctly with a shorter stem is the way to go! :)
@Andrew-st5nwАй бұрын
Great. How about sharing how to measure for proper fore aft fit to start and adjust from there?
@thisandthatandotherthings Жыл бұрын
If you get out of the saddle then you are no longer engaging with a too far back/forward saddle so I think the reference is meant to be where the saddle is relative to your pelvis when you are stomping on the pedals sprinting above it ?
@yannickokpara4861 Жыл бұрын
If you maintain the position except for moving the saddle, it means the reach must be reduced. Therefore, CoG shifts back.
@Tasha451308 Жыл бұрын
I've had upper back/shoulder/arm fatigue for the last few years and it's really deterred me from riding when I used to ride 100mi per week, it's really sad 😫
@gregorymartino4561 Жыл бұрын
I think there is a lot of helpful information from these guys, however, I think not enough attention is looked at regarding foot size when setting up your bike fit. foot size plays a major role in cleat setup, saddle height, whether you pedal toe down or heal down will make a major difference in cleat fore and aft position. anyway, thank you
@richardggeorge6 ай бұрын
Love the BH. Aweome underrated bikes.
@grantmcalpine6364 Жыл бұрын
If you happen to lose flexibility, do you feel you'd want to move more forward. It seems like that would make sense. Great videos as always.
@livibam Жыл бұрын
I naturally move forward.. been riding a 00mm setback for years now. Long back & short legs.
@gerrysecure5874 Жыл бұрын
Couldn't measuring the weight distribution front/rear give a good idea to adjust saddle position ? If yes, what should it be ?
@frapalapachino123 Жыл бұрын
I find it also difficult to get the seat far enough forward for tall riders ~2m. Too many bike manufacturers have pretty slack seat tube angles and there are not really any good options to get the seat forward enough in some cases. Maybe I have shorter legs too...
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
Depends on the bike and seat but in some case you can purchase different rails that enable more flexibility there. Cam
@baribari600 Жыл бұрын
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 ISM saddles are great for people who need to slam their saddles forward.
@xBALL3R Жыл бұрын
might look at the lapierre aircode i ride it in size m because of it 74 deg seat angle seat angle stays at 73.5 even for xxl
@artorepo2938 Жыл бұрын
I use rotated 20 mm offset round seatpost with slack 72.5 seat tube angle. Works well for me.
@xBALL3R Жыл бұрын
hey! maybe you can touch on the topic of feet length, and how it relates to bike fit. eg i am 183cm and have small feet size 41.5 so i am forced to move my saddle all the way forward and ride 0 offset seatpost. thanks :)
@ProWeAreSo Жыл бұрын
What we'd need to discuss is short femurs. If we use KOPS (as a starting point), someone with short femurs needs a considerable amount of saddle forwardness to meet the equivalent of that of someone with long femurs
@phumeoli Жыл бұрын
On point.
@orangeorphan2 ай бұрын
Wow, a 3mm window? That’s so fine tuned. No wonder I can’t find the perfect geometry on my own.
@msmyankees Жыл бұрын
I relate more with the too far back issues but still have too much weight on my hands..
@jayromasanta8072Ай бұрын
have you resolved the weight on your hands?
@msmyankeesАй бұрын
@@jayromasanta8072 I ended up going more forward than ever on both road and gravel bikes, bars cannot be too low. When I start to get pain it’s because I’m not engaging my core. Do some pushups and the ab wheel every other day and it goes away.
@willwilling4728 Жыл бұрын
I have two bikes a tri bike with a ISM saddle and road bike with with a Bontrager saddle both saddles cause saddle sores in the crease between my legs and my private parts. Also on my road bike it took 600 miles befoe my triceps stopped hurting? Is there anything I can do to stop the abrasion cause by these saddles? Thanks
@robertmcfadyen91567 ай бұрын
The downside of integrated bar / stem units is apparent .
@tofuguru9412 ай бұрын
What about if it's too far back? I'm 6'4 on a 60cm cyclocross bike that I use for gravel and road biking... they have slightly different geometry from a strict road bike... I find myself never being able to find a true/perfect position. I'd say my limb lengths, torso lengths are all proportionate (in other words, I'm not 6'4 with long arms/legs short torso, or short legs long torso... I'm proportionate). In order to get full leg extension... I extend my seat post fully at its limit. Maybe 1cm passed it actually. Not only that, but I have to slide my saddle all the way back for a bit more leg extension, and reach (Since if I keep the saddle neutral or forward, I feel cramped up front). I even have a 110mm long stem. The position this puts me in.. gives me a feeling of kicking forward while my femur bones are too close to my torso (which doesn't allow me to put out as much power... although it puts me in a more aero position). Issue is... If I shorten the stem... I'm cramped. If I slide seat foward... I'm cramped. If I slide seat post down... legs don't get extension. I think I've come to the conclusion that my frame just isn't enough for me... Gotta go full road bike, maybe a 61cm. Thoughts from anyone? Looking for all the ideas I can get...
@jerrydixon9865 Жыл бұрын
Roughly 85% or maybe more have the seat slam too far forward at every race I’ve ever attended. If you looked at the bio-mechanics of that pedal stroke people aren’t even applying pressure to the pedals until 3 o’clock most times….
@tn9274 Жыл бұрын
interesting to know that kinda counter intuitive. too far forward then more heavy on the front end instead the reach become shorter then should be lighter front end.
@pagey007 Жыл бұрын
Integrated bars , So over rated expensive and non adjustable , Makes resale of the bike more difficult , Great vids on seat fore/ aft 🙂
@tonypowers123 Жыл бұрын
Amen! God Bless you! Knowledge and experience. If we want to learn,( and ride pain free) we must listen and apply. Thank you for educating us ❤
@kokonanana13 ай бұрын
The saddle on the yellow Factor is all the way forward!!
@jamesmckenzie3532 Жыл бұрын
Thinking my saddle is too far forward as I end up with severe triceps issues after three hours or more of riding. I'll look into moving the saddle 5mm back.
@donkorleone203 ай бұрын
How does the saddle position make a difference when I'm out of the saddle sprinting?
@EnigmaticAnomaly Жыл бұрын
What's a possible solution for a rider with long legs and arms, but a short torso? It's a problem I have. If I'm balanced, the seat it rather far back, but I'd need a 80mm stem; it feels fine when seated, but anything out of the saddle (sprinting for example) and I feel the stem is way too short, and come close to contacting the bar with my knees.
@ajbarnes777 Жыл бұрын
For me personally, I believe the diagnosis is too forward because my thighs are FRIED during rides flat or climbs! lol. Just moved it back a few mm, can't wait to test it out in the AM. Thanks for the helpful vid.
@iceguy8112 Жыл бұрын
Hi Josh I wish I can get fitting from you here!
@standekoster4291 Жыл бұрын
I honestly struggle to understand that you can notice your saddle being too far forward when you are riding out of the saddle 4:45
@johnboyginger Жыл бұрын
This is why integrated bars and seat posts that cannot be adjusted have no benefit other than lining the pockets of the manufacturers.
@EverythingWasGreat13 күн бұрын
I want to take it even further. This is why bikes shouldn't come as complete builds. I dont want to pay for a super expensive frameset or a complete bike with too wide bars, too much offset on the seatpost, to long cranks, to long stem, crappy wheels and saddle.
@cameronALR611 сағат бұрын
But if you know your fit already and are not tinkering, what’s the downside?
@johnboyginger10 сағат бұрын
@@cameronALR6 bodies and fitness/flexibility changed over time plus injuries; all of which will require ongoing slight changes to fit.
@andrewgrant3470 Жыл бұрын
So Neil, I believe that when you. Change the fwd aft of the seat you also need to change the height. So if you move the seat aft it needs to go down and if you need to move it fwd it needs to go up? Is there a rough ratio to use for this? Say 6mm fwd means 3mm up? …… thoughts?
@xBALL3R Жыл бұрын
Yes, but totally depends on the shape of your saddle.
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
Assuming the height is perfect to begin with, going forward 5mm usually involves raising the seat around 1-3mm in my experience, and vice versa with going backwards. It's highly variable though and there are sufficient numbers of people out there who are outside of these ranges to make this a pretty sketchy generalisation at the best of times! - Neill
@io8787 Жыл бұрын
Maybe a stupid question…but what if arm/neck pain occur on easy days while it is not there on hard rides/race day? I have been experiencing this issue with different position a bit more race-oriented..in particular, I have the feeling that on active recovery/really easy rides I do not engage sufficiently the core and I do not push ‘enough’ on the pedals, thus overcharging my arms and shoulders….while on hard rides/race everything is perfect and pedalling feels round and smooth..what to do in this case?
@johnunruh1086 Жыл бұрын
I have the same issue! Please help
@kimwarner6050 Жыл бұрын
Stem to long
@davidc3526 ай бұрын
When pushing hard on the pedals, you are actively unweighting your upper body. That's why you feel uncomfortable on your easy days (which means your fit is not optimal)
@TubePut9 ай бұрын
Can sliding forward on the saddle also be a sign of a saddle that is too far forward?
@ivanyhtang Жыл бұрын
Another brilliant video! With respect to the last point to change to a shorter stem to change the reach, how short is too short? Is 50mm acceptable for a gravel bike doing 50/50 road/gravel? Cheers!
@colecoleman1499 Жыл бұрын
I have the shortest available. Not a problem
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
It depends on the head angle, and fork rake/trail as each bike is individual, but with most gravel bikes 50mm is no problem, especially when paired with a wide bar which gives heaps of steering input leverage! - Neill
@ivanyhtang Жыл бұрын
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 thanks!! Neill the bikefitting legend!
@ivanyhtang Жыл бұрын
@@colecoleman1499 great to know! Thanks Cole
@ShadowzKiller Жыл бұрын
Thank you ! Could you please provide a quick comment regarding inclines since this one was mentioned in the other video of the saddle being too far back? In other words, will it feel difficult/easy to go up or down hills?
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
I didn't mention it because if the seat is too far forward you won't have any major trouble as the road tilts upwards - you'll still be well over the top of the pedals on the power phase of the stroke and it won't present much of a problem at all. - Neill
@ShadowzKiller Жыл бұрын
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 Ok, thank you very much for your reply.
@martinpaul9880 Жыл бұрын
thanks very much for your vids Neil - much appreciated 🙂 Over the years, my saddle has edged its way forward - i feel i can generate more power with it forward. Is that generally true? I saw your UK counterpart, Scherrit Knoesen, for a bike fit in March and he moved my saddle 4cm back!! Despite only doing easy riding, I immediately started getting old medial left knee pain which i don't get with the saddle further forward...so i moved it back to the forward position. I'm pretty lightweight but i am aware that i'm probably slightly overloading my arms and it's probably contributing to a bit of trap tightness but it's felt like the "right" position for me....I've been doing some knee / anterior chain strengthening work (as i've invested 10 years in posterior chain stuff!) and was thinking of experimenting with slowly edging my saddle back....any words of advice? what do you think about being able to generate more power with saddle further forward? is that why time-triallists are often sitting on the nose of the saddle? many thanks and be well 🙂 martin
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
Hey Martin, sorry Neill is no longer on the thread, but thanks for the comment. Cam
@useport80 Жыл бұрын
as a starting point, would you recommend moving the saddle fore as much as possible or move it aft as much as possible? then slowly move it fore/aft 5-10mm
@ShadowzKiller Жыл бұрын
The best place is the middle of the sail rails. If you go to one extreme or the other, the saddle tilt can be very quite challenging, because the saddle may tilt up or down excessively when too far back or forward.
@devinmorrison7131 Жыл бұрын
What about Adam Hansen?
@darinsteele7091 Жыл бұрын
adam hansen was a total freak, his seat was like 2 degrees down too slammed all the way forward, but he worked a lot on core strength and spent a ton of his life on the bike to handle it, theres no way a normal human can handle his old setup.
@user-kv3bn6yh9v Жыл бұрын
Great video, but for those, like me, not have english as native language, understanding problems may arise. A general picture was ok, thank you. Maybe you write down the wording and we can copy-paste for translation?! Kalimera from Greece.
@Galaxieguy428 Жыл бұрын
Has Neil done a foot pain video. Got some outside foot pain going on now.
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f7mJq5Od0avYl58.html yes
@christopherrichards387 Жыл бұрын
As you get fitter/ more flexible would you want to move the seat forward or backward?
@ultimatist Жыл бұрын
You have more option to move backward, cause your body can fold over easier. Doesn't mean you want or need to though.
@IamSpiders11 ай бұрын
Don't really understand how the seat being too far forward affects your out of seat efforts? you're not sitting anymore? Wouldn't you end up in the same position regardless of seat position?
@DR_1_16 ай бұрын
You can not understand this kind of things, you need to feel them. Imagine having to jump starting on your knees or sitting bottom on the ground vs an Indian squatt position.
@SpriteHide Жыл бұрын
Relatively easy to assemble kzfaq.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA (note that is does not come with tools, so please have a set of hex/Allen keys and Phillips screwdriver handy). The bike weighs 27 lbs fully assembled, which is not bad.A couple quirks about the bike:- left brake lever operates the front brake (something to get used to if controlling the front brake with your right hand is what you usually do)- Shimano thumb shifters for the gears are positioned close to the center. This is a bit of a nuisance because changing gears involved taking your weight from one hand to change gears, a hassle if you are regularly changing gears. However, gear shifters positioned at the drop bars are very expensive compared to thumb shifters, so I can understand, given the price of the bikeBike is otherwise of good quality. Gears change fairly smoothly and fit/assembly is of good quality. A totally competent product for the price.
@ryankenner Жыл бұрын
I have the SMP dynamic on my bike. I recently angled it down approx 14mm as you have mentioned in one of your videos. It feels much better now. I did notice that my weight is often on the nose of the saddle and I feel the seat is too far back. I am already using a zero-offset seatpost and the seat is almost slammed forward. Would a solution be to move the seat forward the remaining centimeter (and lower) and subsequently enlarge the stem to keep the reach the same? what other issues could make it feel like the seat is too far back?
@JohnnyRabbitQC6 ай бұрын
1.If your saddle is too far forward, you might be overloading your quads and they are pulling you forward. It's counterintuitive but more setback and a lower saddle will help engaging your glutes and keep you well balanced. 2.If your saddle is too high, you will skate towards the nose of the saddle to shorten your legs. 3.If your stem is too long it can have the same effect. To properly identify the problem I would reset the SMP saddle position in the middle of the rails since you have a zero offset seatpost first. I have the Dynamic as well and the number 4 on the rails corresponds to the middle. 1. Check if you need arch support in your shoes 2. Reassess cleat placement 3. Set you bike on a trainer or go for a ride and set saddle height. 4. Fit a shorter stem if you have one. I do this and I find it helps me focus on how the position of the saddle feels in the next step. 5. Do the balance test to set your seat setback. Check Steve Hogg website on seat setback. 6. If you feel cramped after all of the above is good to go, put a longer stem by 10mm increments only. 7. Handlebar height is a tricky one but start with the highest setting on your steerer and go down from there until you are comfortable, relaxed shoulders and not too much weight on your hands. Your can also film yourself, sometimes it's easier to see what's wrong with the position on video. I'm not a bikefitter but this is what I do for myself with all I've learned on this channel so far.
@savagepro9060 Жыл бұрын
" . . . Your Saddle Is Too Far Forward . . ."
@nationsnumber1chump Жыл бұрын
Seems like you can have a seat farther back with longer cranks to get the smoother rotation? Thoughts or just confusing? Lol
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
I'll leave this Q to Neill Sheldon. Assuming he can get to it. Cheers, Cam
@escamunicha4276 Жыл бұрын
seat to the back with longer cranks will increase hip impingement.
@discbrakefan Жыл бұрын
@@escamunicha4276 Yep, this wouldn’t work for me. I have short cranks and the seat relatively far forward (despite having very long legs)
@ceftx2375 Жыл бұрын
Well, fine, now I have an urge to move the saddle back a few mm's just to see how it feels. 🤔
@amjan Жыл бұрын
I think much of this related to hamstring work is only relevant when your feet are fixed to the pedals. So not relevant for normal bike riders.
@5amba Жыл бұрын
that stem tho xD
@jefgovaert4479 Жыл бұрын
Why do many pro cyclists nowadays slam their saddle all the way to the front (as mush as UCI allows them to)? I understand this would open up their hip but wouldn't this be way less efficient as their hamstrings are not engaged and all of their power has to be produced by their quadriceps? I experimented with a more forward saddle as well and my quads started burining a lot faster while my hamstring were perfectly fine.
@darinreisenauer4536 ай бұрын
Cleat position and shoe fit. They wear shoes that FIT. Ball of foot inside the shoe is more forward (relative to the cleat mounting holes) than in a shoe that's too big. This effectively "moves the cleats back" on the shoe, shortening your legs(for the same ankle posture). Moving the saddle forward ALONE effectively "lengthens" your legs, which could explain your experience with unfamiliar/unbalanced muscle fatigue?
@sturdyvwАй бұрын
Most powerful position is far forward and up high. This engages the glutes. Engaging the hamstrings is the opposite of what you want.
@ds6914 Жыл бұрын
Surely you're saddle position's irrelevant when you're out the saddle?
@purpleaki7135 Жыл бұрын
Great content but too loquacious for me to sit and watch the whole thing.
@evdb7246 Жыл бұрын
Interesting, I find 100% the opposite. Too far forward for me means 100% hamstring/glutes and lack of quad engageent
@jimmyhor78 Жыл бұрын
Same here. Too far back always burns up my quads and reduces glute engagement.
@ShadowzKiller Жыл бұрын
@@jimmyhor78 Probably means your seat is too high because quads are over engaged and the glutes are turned off, but then again some people experience the opposite in the crazy world of bike fitting :)
@hendipray1016 Жыл бұрын
Your saddle is too high.. Quads always do extra extension & work if the saddle is too high, and your glutes off power because they were busy stabilizing your pelvis.. On correct saddle height, if your saddle too far forward, your quads burning.. Too far back, your hamstring got strained..
@YuriThorpe Жыл бұрын
Call me crazy but the audio is out of sync
@donwinston Жыл бұрын
That middle saddle has Peyronie's disease.
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
The old BH in the background (my bike) has the same seat with a single layer of sheepskin glued over the top to provide some extra grip. It's awesome if you're 60kg, super stable and your position is well balanced! - Neill
@MichaelJulio Жыл бұрын
1st
@gasken2182Ай бұрын
Absolutely garbage. All of this was just said for clicks
@bluntsnhalo4 ай бұрын
Can you get to the point more quickly in your videos and then explain? Thanks.
@EwanSupple Жыл бұрын
"saddle may be too far forward...if you're out of the saddle and rear wheel is jumping from power/weighting" Has nothing to do with the saddle position, lmao.
@user-cx2bk6pm2f Жыл бұрын
He calls clients "patients"? This guy is full of himself. He moves bicycle seats up and down but equates that to being a doctor. 😂
@roadcyclingacademy6476 Жыл бұрын
Hey spud, I'm a sports physiotherapist and we call our customers patients.
@busking9113 Жыл бұрын
Absolutely no way is “this guy full of himself”. Clearly Neill is a passionate, dedicated expert who is trying to help people… for free as well. Pretty humble actually, thanks for all your work Neill & Cam
@orangeorphan2 ай бұрын
Wow, a 3mm window? That’s so fine tuned. No wonder I can’t find the perfect geometry on my own.
@user-kv3bn6yh9v Жыл бұрын
Great video, but for those, like me, not have english as native language, understanding problems may arise. A general picture was ok, thank you. Maybe you write down the wording and we can copy-paste for translation?! Kalimera from Greece.