How'd it go?

thanks a lot

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rMd5h6yKrMulmo0.html Watch this

I don't think you realize the thought that went into box creation, box organization, using distribution networks and most of all, playtesting. All your board games are actually dirt cheap, a sign that the market is oversaturated.

@@kosterix123 well not all games are dirt cheap, those can be beneficial for rare games that aren't being made anymore, or games that maybe come with a lot of parts and aren't exactly sold in store, games like DnD and making a custom map board comes to mind. or maybe shadows of brimstone that costs almost a hundred bucks to play it, and using the methods of this video would reduce to about half if not more depending if you have the tools at your disposal.

The best thing about the Internet is that whatever your hobby there's always some people around as crazy as you! As to boxes: tell me about it... I have a generic template I use for anything that folds down to about A5 size, and tuck box templates are pretty easy to come by, but yeah - nobody seems to want to design boxes at the same time as the game. I'm not innocent of this either, I've released several PnP games and probably only one box template... I think part of the problem is that the actual size of the build can vary wildly depending on how it's actually made - if you tape together paper for the board it's much thinner than if you mount it on heavy card; if you stuff paper into sleeves it's thinner but wider than if you glue up your own cards, and so on.

You're probably right! Meanwhile, my actual GM screen is half an old Risk board with some FATE reference sheets taped to the inside...!

@@DiningTablePrintPlay well then my friend, I think you have a project!

Greyboard is a dense paperboard made from recycled waste paper - often, as I understand it, the trimmings of other paper products from the same mill. (e.g. www.papermilldirect.co.uk/inspire/what-is-greyboard-and-what-is-it-used-for) I expect in the US it would probably be sold as 'chipboard', but that always seems to be a much more broad name for paperboard in general - greyboard is a specific kind of paperboard. Maybe it's the same as what Americans call 'binder board'? I'm pretty sure I've heard of it being used for book covers. For making game boards the important thing is really that it whatever you choose is a reasonable thickness, very stiff, and so far as possible resists warping.

To be honest, in my experience the answer is that pretty much all of them are suitable for paper and card... but you do have to be careful how you go about applying them. If you glue the paper to the card and then spray, then you're introducing a moisture differential from one side of the card to the other, and it'll likely warp as a result. So you need to spray the paper first, and then glue it down to the card afterwards. (This is also why I don't like using water-based glues like PVA.) The other thing to be careful of is how well (or badly!) the lacquer interacts with your printer's output, and that's unfortunately something that can only be discovered by trial and error. Some inkjet ink will bloom out if you spray it with lacquer, although you can often mitigate that by spraying many really light coats rather than one heavy coat. The solvents in some lacquers will dissolve laser toner, but in my experience this isn't much of a problem so long as you don't actually touch the printed parts while the lacquer is drying. Unfortunately this part really comes down to experimentation, but I've had a lot more trouble spraying lacquers over different kinds of paint than I have over printed paper! If you're in the UK, I use Simoniz acrylic lacquer, and have previously had a lot of success with Halfords' own-brand stuff as well. I switched to the Simoniz brand largely because you can get it fairly cheap in bulk off of eBay!

Wow. Thanks for such a full and detailed reply and the reminder to spray before gluing. Looking forward to making my pieces :-)

That's a good question! One of the easiest and most reliable options, albeit also more expensive, is to use "mounting film" - basically giant sheets/rolls of double-sided tape. Unroll it, stick it down to the back of your board, then peel the backing off in the same way you would a self-adhesive print. There's a variety of options from single A4/US-Letter sheets (e.g. Graphix Double-Tack) right the way up to big rolls of the stuff often used by signmakers/shop dress people (e.g. Neschen Gudy). A cheaper but potentially-messier option _might_ be contact adhesive. This comes in cans or tubes and is often thinned with volatile organic solvents, so do it outside or in a well-ventilated space... and also double-check that it doesn't react badly with the vinyl! Test on a bit of scrap if you can, but the packaging may give you an idea. You smear a thin layer of the adhesive on both the back of the print and also the top of your chipboard, wait for it to dry to a rubbery tack, and press them together - you can put a large sheet of paper between them to allow you to position before they touch, because once they stick they're not coming apart easily. Press down firmly with a roller or squeegee to get a really strong bond (with a bit of paper over the top if you're worried about damaging the print). You may want to map out exactly where you want the adhesive on the chipboard first and lay masking tape around to allow you to cleanly remove the adhesive from the edges if you spread it a bit too far. A heavy-duty spray adhesive may work - something like Super77 - but again, try it on a bit of scrap first if you can, just in case. To aid in positioning you can often lay spray-adhesive-covered material down on the waxed side of greaseproof baking paper, and use that as a makeshift sticker backing.

Thank you kindly for your reply, this is great information! I looked into some of these ideas as well as supplies I already had at home. I had great success with your suggestion of "creating my own backing" for Super77. I found that Reynold's Freezer Paper worked perfectly for this. It stuck to my Super77 covered artwork almost exactly like a "sticker backing" then peeled off cleanly as I needed it to while deploying onto the board. :-)

The place I got that particular print from was Zip Posters, here in the UK: www.zip-posters.co.uk/high-tac-self-adhesive-signs/ It's actually printed on vinyl, it's intended for outdoor signage and so on, but it works great for boards. Nearly all poster-printing places will print large-format prints which are great for boards. If you don't find one that does self-adhesive but you can get your board printed on regular paper at the size you want, there are a number of options anyway. There'll be a tips video on it at some point in the future, but the short version is: - Check out sign-making suppliers for "adhesive film" or "mount film". This is basically a layer of glue - or glue-covered vinyl or similar - which you can stick to your board graphics, then peel back the backing to stick to something else. It's like giant double-sided tape. - For a quick-and-dirty option, spray the back of the board all over with spray-glue, then immediately lay down greaseproof baking parchment. This doesn't stick very well (if at all!) to the glue, but you can use it as giant sticker-backing to position the board artwork - then you can tap down the edge and peel the baking paper out from underneath, just like a full-sheet label that happens to be board-sized. - As a last resort, use PVA glue... but spread it onto the thick substrate and not the paper artwork, or the artwork will go all wrinkly. Spread it as thinly as possible, then use a roller to roll down the artwork to make sure that it's pressed well down and to prevent it going wrinkly. It might help to have another sheet over the top of the artwork so the roller doesn't mess up the print while you're rolling.

I7rag0n its different I used table finishing vinyl

I'm in the UK, so I can't give you specific product pointers, but I can offer some general advice! Double-sided tape: I've seen the same Scotch tape over here! I generally find my double-sided tape in stationery shops here in the UK - the type with the peel-away backing is definitely rarer than the type which just has glue both sides of the plastic film, but it's often found in larger stationers. If you don't find it there, though, try DIY shops - carpet tape is basically the same product but wider. As a last resort, you could look at specialist woodworking supply places as well - I know I see American woodworkers on KZfaq using double-sided tape with a peel-away backing quite frequently to stick blanks together in order to cut an identical shape in multiple parts, for example. Board: It might be worth looking for "greyboard" instead of "chipboard". Greyboard (I guess maybe "grayboard" in the US?) is the stuff that bookbinders use for hardback covers, which is largely what I use for PnP boards, so as a last resort you could try a bindery supplier... but it'd probably be more expensive! From what I understand, US suppliers often measure in "points", which really just means "thousandths of an inch". So my UK 2-3mm greyboard would turn into 80-120pt greyboard/chipboard in the US; a 1-1.5mm greyboard that's good for tokens and small player boards would be a 40-60pt board in US terms. 2mm/80pt is absolutely fine for game boards like these; 3mm is super-thick. If I search US Amazon for "60pt chipboard" or "80pt chipboard" a fair number of results come up, so hopefully it's widely available by that kind of measurement. Vinyl: The DC-Fix brand I use (which seems to be widely available across Europe) seems to be generally intended to dress up the sides of kitchen cabinets and similar, so if you're looking for larger rolls, you might try looking at DIY shops, interior-design suppliers, that kind of place. There are some other brands available around here which are just as good, and obviously it doesn't *have* to have the leather effect - it's just a common feature of commercial game boards, so since one self-adhesive vinyl costs the same as the next, I figure I might as well! You can actually sometimes find other products which are just as good, but may be a little trickier to apply; I've seen thick paper-based wraps which also have a nice texture and would do well enough as board game backing - the important thing is really just that you stick something on the back which has a similar moisture permeability to the front, because otherwise your board may warp if the local humidity changes from the day you built it. Good luck finding supplies!

Thanks so much for the reply. Searching for 100pt chipboard does get some results. There are some 12" x 12" and 8.5" x 11" sheets on amazon.com. I also found some on the Blicks Art Supply website (dickblick.com). They have larger sheets of 100pt chipboard (22" x 28" in store and twice that size online). It's half the price per square inch of what is on amazon if you don't have to pay for shipping, and lucky for me, I pass within a mile of a Blicks store on the way home from work so I picked up a couple sheets. It's brown like the chipboard on the back of a notepad, but much thicker of course. I also picked up the 18" wide Con-Tact vinyl. It is the faux leather type so it has the texturing. I don't think it would be nearly as nice if it was smooth. Blicks also has some double-sided tape with backing which I may try. Although I may also look at some other types of tape that are not double-sided.

@@johns8598 Try an archival supply company that sells bookbinding supplies for the double stick tape. talasonline.com carries four widths of 3M 415 double stick tape, as well as other useful items.

I can't really make a proper "recommendation" for a laser printer since I've only used a few myself. Personally I have a Xerox Phaser 6600 - I chose it because I've had a Xerox printer before that was really reliable, Xerox customer service was excellent (I damaged my previous printer being careless and they were going out of their way to help with it), and most importantly third-party toner was easily available and the printer has control over fuser temperature. That last bit is important - first party toner is seriously expensive, but cheap third-party toner often needs to be fused at a higher temperature to make a good bond. You can achieve this by telling the printer it's printing on thicker paper, but then you lose the possibility of printing on thicker paper. "Good quality" paper is... well, good quality. The cheapest copier paper you find will be fine for printing letters, but it probably doesn't have a perfectly smooth surface and may not be especially bright white, and these things will affect the quality of the print. If I talk about good-quality paper I mean the kind of stuff that gets sold for printing off presentation documents. I buy "silk finish" laser-printer-specific paper which is slightly heavier (100gsm compared to typical copier paper at 75-80gsm), brighter white, and has a silk-smooth finish which produces a higher print quality. The protection spray is an acrylic lacquer. Basically a varnish that you spray on things to protect them. Some types of lacquer will soak very quickly into the paper and make it look greasy - this can happen with acrylic lacquer if you put it on really heavily, but if you're not heavy-handed it's fine. It helps protect the printed surface, and often makes the colours pop a bit more. I use a rotary cutter for most of my cuts, cutting along a steel ruler. I have a video explaining how to use them, but they're not for everyone - if you don't get on, I'd advise a craft knife against a steel ruler rather than using a guillotine. It's much harder to line the cuts up precisely on most guillotines, and they don't leave the cleanest cut edge. But if you find your guillotine cuts accurately enough for you, that's all that matters!

thank you would you recommend xerox 6600dn for cards like Dixit, Catan, and landtiles like Carcasonne and Small World?

If the board in question is thick card with a printed face, then I'd try the following method. I've used it a lot for repairing broken box corners, and I'm guessing it should work at least passably on board folds. - Use a sharp knife, working from the sides of the split, to separate the printed face from the thick card. Be careful not to poke the knife through the printing! You need to separate the printing for the first 10-15mm away from the split, on either side. (I'm assuming it's an interior/valley fold here; if it folds back away from the printing, then cut this slot between the thick board and whatever wrap is on the bottom of the board instead.) - Cut a strip of thin cardstock that's the same length as the fold you're repairing, and a little narrower than twice the depth you cut with the knife - Pre-score a fold directly down the centre of the cardstock. Use a scoring wheel on a rotary cutter if you have one, or an empty ballpoint pen against a ruler if you don't - don't use the back of a knife or scissor blade because you don't want to damage the fibres of this fold at all if you can help it. - Use a strip of card or a thin spatula to dab PVA glue into the interior of the split you cut in the first step - enough to coat the inside, not any more! - then carefully insert the cardstock strip (making sure the scored fold is the right way up!) and put the board back together. - put a bit of greaseproof paper on the inside of the fold, then carefully fold the board back - making sure the cardstock stays inside - and clamp it in place in the folded position (if you don't have clamps, weigh it down with heavy books or something). The greaseproof paper makes sure that if any glue squeezes out, it doesn't stick the board to itself in the folded position. You'll probably find that the fold opens out a little more separated than it was before, but hopefully that gets you quite a few more foldings/unfoldings out of your board!

Thank you very much for the instructions. I think this will do the trick. You have some great material on your channel for us table top/board gamers. Thanks again.

Actually, a lot of the time the board graphics in the PnP files are already split across multiple pages. However, if you do have one giant board graphic, you can usually open it in your graphics editor and print and it'll split it up and print across multiple pages if the graphic is larger than a single page. Additionally if you have the board as a PDF, the Adobe Acrobat Reader client will do this for you. If you do want to change a single-large-board graphic to a split-over-multiple-pages PDF, you could try the tool "Rasterbator", which is designed to do just that: rasterbator.net/

The ones in this video come from existing print-and-play games, but when I do draw my own game boards, I generally use a combination of Photoshop and Illustrator. For open-source free options, I'd suggest Krita and Inkscape.

Pretty much any spray should be fine so long as you're a) using suitable paper for your printer, and b) do light coats with the spray lacquer. You should only have trouble - even with inkjet printing - if you spray the protective coat on too heavily. By way of example - there exists inkjet waterslide decal paper! This stuff requires you to print the image on the paper, coat it carefully in spray lacquer, then soak the paper in water to slide the decal off the sheet and onto a model. If you couldn't spray inkjet printing the printing would be destroyed when you soaked it! I've used this several times and it's worked fine - you just have to do several light coats of the spray instead of one thick one.