How To Modify Existing Ceiling or Floor Framing To Install Pull Down Stairs For Attic Storage

  Рет қаралды 79,394

stairbuilding

stairbuilding

3 жыл бұрын

www.homebuildingandrepairs.com Visit our website today to learn more about floor framing remodeling, repairs and even how to build stairs. This video will help you figure out how to build or remodel a floor or ceiling so that pull down stairs can be installed. It will provide you with a few ideas, but not lumber sizes or building hardware or structural engineering that might be required for your job or project.

Пікірлер: 95
@yorktugle
@yorktugle 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this video, and the other stairbuilding videos. Always very helpful. I especially appreciate how you point out possible points of failure and caution against doing it in certain unwise ways you have seen in your experience. Blessings!
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@wg1408
@wg1408 2 жыл бұрын
Phenomenal work. Exactly what I was looking for. Putting a trap door/stair ladder going from livingroom into basement
@josephtaylor630
@josephtaylor630 Жыл бұрын
Bolt your recliner on it, so you can drop anyone who site in your chair. 😂
@GeorgeKouloumbis
@GeorgeKouloumbis 2 жыл бұрын
Mate you’re a saviour. Just watching your lovely video ideas I decided to do it myself in an old Welsh miners cottage. Perfect. Take care of yourself
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic!
@DerekTJ
@DerekTJ 3 жыл бұрын
Just bought a house, so gobbling up this stuff. Will need an expanded hatch to lift and cutting rafters for skylight. Very informative.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 3 жыл бұрын
Right on!
@geraldholmes190
@geraldholmes190 5 ай бұрын
This video was an EXCELLENT Explanation of different situations and how to adjust the opening to fit the attic ladder. THANK YOU 😎👍🏼
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 5 ай бұрын
You're very welcome!
@edsonciriaco2336
@edsonciriaco2336 2 жыл бұрын
Muchas gracias!! Por compartir tus conocimientos para mi fue de gran ayuda .
@lucysarahbest
@lucysarahbest 2 жыл бұрын
brilliant video and chat, thank you so much. You make it very clear.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome
@drumttocs8
@drumttocs8 5 ай бұрын
Any way to show the math or simulation of what loading would look like? I get it intuitively, but the engineer in me wants to feel sure.
@6smithsVideos
@6smithsVideos 3 жыл бұрын
Helpful video, cheers.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you think so!
@wg1408
@wg1408 2 жыл бұрын
Thinking about adding a small hatch with ladder to access my basement from livingroom. Was afraid I couldn't cut multiple floor joist for opening. Looks like it's doable now. Assuming I have to put floor jacks in for temporary support as I cut the 2 floor joist for a 48" long opening? Now I just need to research the steepest stair/ladder so it doesn't take up much room in my 250sqft basement.
@thungp
@thungp 7 ай бұрын
Thank you for all of your examples. I have a joist that happens to span over a wall and existing contractors added some 2x4 horizontally half over the wall and half into the room to support blocking hanging dry wall in the ceiling. If you wanted, needed to attach a joist to an existing joist where there is drywall blocking covering the bottom 1 1/2" of an existing joist, is it okay just to notch into the joist you are attaching? I think obviously it is better to notch into the existing dry wall blocking and hope you don't run into any existing dry wall screws where you notch out the 1 1/2" noyxh for the new joist to slip in.mayne look for zome special hangers that can acomodate the 1 1/2" blocking at the bottom or perhaps make the notch wider if usimg hangers. Jusy wondering if we have equivakent options thatbwould both be sound even though one may be better thannthe other from a structural point of view. Would you know if they would still meet code? One thought is that as long as you follow joist notching rules it should be okay. Separately instead of structural joist hangers could you use structural screws and either toe nail them in with a certain pattern and certain length depth screws? Could you attatch a cross joist through an existing joist with long enough and stronf enough screws to the ends of the joists on tbe off chance there isnt enough room to atratch hangers because due to location of whereuou want to put it there isn't enough space fir hammering in nails or screwing in screws. Separately if you are just going to add a doubler joist to frame out what dimensions you need instead of doubling an existing joist, lets say existing joists are 2x6 nominal. Could you just add a 4x6 joist nominal? I know on the 4 side you have an extra 1/2" due to the 4 side being 3.5" actual where if you put two 2x6 together ti make a doubler, actual thickness is two 1.5" which gets you actual 3". In you example you have a beam in tbe middle if the garage. Could you provide an example of what if the beam instead is a load bearing 2x4 walls with 2x6 x14' joists spanning a 13 ft span of opening. inner stud to inner stud tbat has a span. I see existing fra
@khalkhali1960
@khalkhali1960 5 ай бұрын
great explanation,Thanks
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 5 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@r0z3d
@r0z3d 6 ай бұрын
The internet is amazing. Thank you for this.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 6 ай бұрын
Our pleasure!
@Garageaholic
@Garageaholic Жыл бұрын
Great video!! does the same principles apply to an engineered truss as opposed to standard rafters?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
For the most part, but you might need top flange hangers or check out the installation instructions from truss joist manufacture.
@jimmyajones
@jimmyajones Жыл бұрын
Perfect video! If you're trying to sister the joists in an existing structure and cannot get a full length joist up can you cut them in half and make up for the break by additional fasteners, glue, or even an overlapping 3rd joist that spans the break?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
Maybe, but I don't know if it would be accepted by your local building inspectors. You can contact your local building department for more information.
@thungp
@thungp 5 ай бұрын
Just to confirm, instead of doublers, you could go with a 4x piece of lumber, correct? And as far as the nails or screws to attatch the wood, windering if you could go over options for that instead of using hangars. E.g. perhsps using structural screws for exanple and the minimum thickness and length and or rating you shoukd be looking fir fir sheer forces.
@thungp
@thungp 5 ай бұрын
Also deoending on how close your cross joists are to a beam or rim joist there are some practical distances needed to be able to secure hangars to secure cross joists(not sure what to call them) as hangars ususlly want some toe nail/screws through the hangar. You not only hsve the length of the fastener to deal with but the nail or screw gun as well. Even with right angled bits it is tough and you msy not get enough torque with those. I saw your example of using spacer blocks. That makes sense and I think could address that. Is there a maximum amount of width for spacer blocks? Thinking maybe you could use a 4x iece of lumber then rip down to your exact needs if very close to a beam. It wouls be great if you could go over recommended screw patterns to attatch these types if spacers. Length/type/thickness of fasteners (e. G. Structural screws, lag bolts etc)
@joeldennis1
@joeldennis1 9 ай бұрын
Great video! I'm trying to frame out an attic access into our existing framing. They are 2x4 rafters spaced 22.5" wide. My stairs require a 22.5" wide opening, so that works out well. Would I just add a doubler on the short sides to create that opening or would I have to add extra support to the rafters as well?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 9 ай бұрын
I can't provide engineering advice for your project, but if it was me, I would install it with what I think would work best and if I wasn't happy with the results, then start adding more structural components.
@atkgrl
@atkgrl Жыл бұрын
Can you help with designing a modern full bathroom lay out for old house with long narrow space. I can give you the measurements. I have noticed their are many requests from people in the same situation on how to set up a good efficient bathroom with tub, shower, toilet, vanity the standard stuff all in an old house with huge window at one end. It’s been frustrating and the bathroom at a standstill for a year now because I just don’t have the vision to place the items in the space.
@panda49905
@panda49905 9 ай бұрын
thank you so much for your detail explanation , and I have a question , : by using the same method, can I make the opening or access for 3ft X 3ft ? because I need to have wide opening to put the stuff into my attic.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 9 ай бұрын
I would think so.
@glorygloryhallelujah
@glorygloryhallelujah 3 жыл бұрын
Good vid
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it and thanks for letting us know.
@lukehibner8189
@lukehibner8189 Жыл бұрын
Have joists 16" on center and want to run the ladder parallel with the joists. Suggestions on how to modify framing to fit a 22.5" opening?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
I would think this video would help. Let me know what you're having a problem with.
@markcramer9397
@markcramer9397 Ай бұрын
Thank you for your video. I’m about to install my own attic ladder. The layout of my house is such that the positioning suggests I should cut 2 joists to position the ladder optimally. This has me concerned. I’ve seen videos where one joist is cut and there is another board anchored above to ensure the ceiling doesn’t sag. Ive seen in other videos and yours the doubling of joist which I can do around the frame but not the length of the whole house. Is it enough to double up the front and back of the attic latter hole? From another video I’ve seen it seems I might connect the cut joists together with other unaffected joists to maintain structural integrity. Please share your thoughts and insights. Any help I’d appreciated.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Ай бұрын
I would think any additional structural supports would help make it stronger, but rather or they would be needed, would depend on the project.
@marvinshook9142
@marvinshook9142 Жыл бұрын
thanks for this. exactly what i needed. seems perfect for openings running parallel with ceiling joists. but the methods at 5:35 ff for transverse openings don't "seem" adequate structurally. to my intuition if you're going to open a span of cutting through three joists, then the adjacent full-length joists should be tripled instead of doubled. or perhaps doubling the next pair of full-length joists also (same added lumber as tripling, just spread out).
@josephtaylor630
@josephtaylor630 Жыл бұрын
I think there is more strength in 2 - beams married to each other, than 2 - beams spread at 16-24”. I’m not certain on how much more load it can take, though.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
I can't provide you with lumber sizes and by all means, contact an engineer if you need to.
@DaveAllredDNA3e8
@DaveAllredDNA3e8 2 жыл бұрын
I have purlin braces and rafter for the other half of the house so the doublers can't be both right next to the joust and on the top plates.. Would it be quadrupling up the joist to get over the top plates? Or put a new joust halfway between the existing and extend a double header? Would the new joist need to be a double?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
I can't provide engineering advice, but email me a picture and I will see if I can help.
@RATHER5KEPTICAL
@RATHER5KEPTICAL Ай бұрын
QUESTION: Can you make a video for staircase openings that are on a skewed angle to the joists?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Ай бұрын
I put it on my list.
@RATHER5KEPTICAL
@RATHER5KEPTICAL Ай бұрын
@@stairbuilding cheers buddy I have just purchased a 200 years old cottage and the wall the new staircase will be is up against sits at around 78* degrees to the joists.
@glennmcilvenna3142
@glennmcilvenna3142 7 ай бұрын
Ok great video has given me ideas… here’s my problem I built a golf simulator in my garage but the exposed ceiling joists get clattered by my 3 wood and driver as not enough head room, my swing follow through is always in the same area..your video has me thinking I could make a large box frame in that area of the ceiling joist that are getting in my way, maybe 6 feet long by 5 feet wide on one side of my garage, is there limits on how large I could make the hatch?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 7 ай бұрын
Go for it!
@bkoz319
@bkoz319 Жыл бұрын
Option 2- is this sufficient for the tie strength for the roof rafters since you are interrupting them with the opening? thanks
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
It will depend on the design more than anything. For example a long opening running parallel to ceiling joist might not affect the rafter ties, but a perpendicular one, (7 feet or longer) could create problems.
@sarahcoolester4992
@sarahcoolester4992 2 жыл бұрын
Question- I just bought a house and upon inspecting the attic stairs, noticed they did no use double board system where the header of stairs attaches and only 4 nails. Would you suggest taking whole system down and starting over? Or I was thinking cutting an additional board and securing in place and replacing the nails with bolts running through both boards? Hope that makes sense. Thank you for your time
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
If you don't like the stair design, then I would remove and replace them, but that would only be if they couldn't be fixed. Email me a few pictures and I will take a look at your project.
@riffdex
@riffdex Жыл бұрын
I understand this video is specifically referring to framing an opening for pull-down stairs, but surely it is a similar process framing for a full-size staircase? I would like to add a stairwell to my attic, and it would be going perpendicular to the ceiling joists, in the center of the house. As such, one side of the staircase will be next to the middle (load-bearing) wall of the house where the ceiling joists connect for each side. I presume I need to frame out a box which is perpendicular to the joists as in your example later in this video. I understand I will need to employ some engineering to make up for the fact that I am cutting into the ceiling joists. Is it correct to assume that the side of the house that I have not cut into the ceiling joists will be completely unaffected by the other side being cut? I am specifically worried about the integrity of the attic roof rafters because the ceiling joists act as rafter ties for my roof. Is such framing (using doubling of boards-headers-etc) appropriately distributing the roof rafter load to the newly cut joists positions? My plan is to have the stairwell ascend from the back side of the house and the top of the staircase will be about in the center of the house/attic floor. Would it also be necessary to add load-supporting vertical posts to support the unsupported side of the framing which is not the middle, load-bearing wall of the house? If so, do I need such vertical support beams to go into their own concrete foundation in the crawlspace of the house? If you manage to see this comment, and can take the time to read it and reply, I would really appreciate you taking the time. Dexter
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
I will try to answer you question. The other side could be affected. You might need to add structural components if necessary, but I can't provide engineering advice only opinions. Email me some pictures of what you're trying to do if it's different than the examples in the video.
@FarrisBarakat
@FarrisBarakat 2 жыл бұрын
Do I have this right: ceiling joists on a single story house tie the rafters, and hold up the drywall for a ceiling. As such there is tension keeping the roof from pushing out the exterior walls, and there is some load on them. If I want to reframe the ceiling joists above the microwave to allow for a vent to go straight up, will the hanger ties be sufficient enough for the tension on the joists. Will the framing in this video work to reframe for a vent?
@FarrisBarakat
@FarrisBarakat 2 жыл бұрын
I say this because the hanging ties are great at hanging a joist and supporting a downwards load but not many fasteners to provide a lot to counter the tension. Almost feel like adding a hanger upside down as well will do a better job of protecting the joists from tension so that the joists is connected from the bottom and top.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
I've used some of these ideas for modifying ceiling joist for stove or microwave vents. However, I can't provide engineering advice for home projects like yours.
@gaelanbellamy1
@gaelanbellamy1 4 ай бұрын
Do you have any thoughts on reinforcing a 44” square opening in the corner of a room? Are there any special considerations when creating the opening in a corner? I’m putting a spiral staircase in the belltower of an old church!
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 4 ай бұрын
I would think this type of opening would be standard construction.
@ReynosoJD
@ReynosoJD Жыл бұрын
Is it recommended to install an attic ladder when joists in garage are 2x4 spaced 22.5" with a span of 20 feet (rafters)? I have concerns whether it will hold the weight of a person and the ladder or am I being over cautious.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
Good point and if you can't add additional supports to make it stronger, I wouldn't install it.
@0livareZ
@0livareZ Жыл бұрын
So is it possible to make an existing attic ladder opening longer and wider? I’m going from a 20x54 to a 25x62, bought it second hand but the ladder is brand new, couldn’t pass up the deal.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
Yes with framing examples in video, most of the time.
@matjusz8985
@matjusz8985 2 жыл бұрын
Do I have to nail the 2 beams together? And then add a hanger?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
Usually that works best.
@charleshenson7756
@charleshenson7756 2 жыл бұрын
I'm planning on adding an opening to my garage ceiling. I want to double up the joists without removing the existing single hangers. Can I place a similar szed board in between as a spacer and use more single hangers?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 2 жыл бұрын
I've seen it done before. The spacer or spacers will need to fill the space between joist so the two joist creating the double joist can be fastened together.
@charleshenson7756
@charleshenson7756 2 жыл бұрын
@@stairbuilding Yes, I have to buy 20ft boards for the full length and I was planning to put the spacer as far as it will fit so probably 19ft and 8 inches or so. It will save me time from removing the old hangers. What hurts is that these are 2x12s. They definitely built my garage to be sturdy.
@shantor100
@shantor100 Жыл бұрын
Just wondering how you get the joist in the finished ceiling ladder hole
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
Not going to happen with out cutting access hole in roof or ceiling. Not easy answer here.
@DavidDouglasZach
@DavidDouglasZach 3 ай бұрын
Can anyone give me help on how I would do this, BUT, I still need to add rafter ties. My issue stems from the fact that my floor joists won't run parallel to the my rafters, which means I still need to add rafter ties. I thought about adding my rafter ties first and then adding my 2 x 10 floor joists above that and then putting down the plywood floor. Help??
@davidcrowe3070
@davidcrowe3070 Жыл бұрын
How do you do this if you have 12" engineered OSB I Beams with a flange
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
Probably with top flange hangers.
@jeremiahwilson5
@jeremiahwilson5 Жыл бұрын
How does this deal with roof thrust, in a typical framing situation? Do the joist hangers and doubler take the thrust and transfer it to the other ceiling joists? Just trying to understand conventional framing
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
The hangers and double joist transfer floor loads to other double joist, beams and walls, then to wall framing studs or posts and then to the foundation and soil or ground.
@jeremiahwilson5
@jeremiahwilson5 Жыл бұрын
@@stairbuilding what about the thrust trying to pull the joists apart from the header, that’s really what I was asking,
@gilbertlaque1928
@gilbertlaque1928 Жыл бұрын
Would doubling the joist be necessary if you’re not using the attic space for storage? Just installing the attic stairs only for access to attic.
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
I can't provide engineering information your asking, but can say that I've seen it done before.
@gilbertlaque1928
@gilbertlaque1928 Жыл бұрын
@@stairbuilding thank you
@digitalconsciousness
@digitalconsciousness Жыл бұрын
What about if you have to cut through a truss? Same thing?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
For a truss joist, it would similar, but you shouldn't cut roof truss.
@digitalconsciousness
@digitalconsciousness Жыл бұрын
@@stairbuilding Yeah, I don't like the idea of cutting through trusses either. Not sure what to do then.
@Rexvideowow
@Rexvideowow 11 ай бұрын
What about when your joists are trusses?
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 11 ай бұрын
It will depend on the truss type. Check with truss manufacture for more information.
@MikeCee7
@MikeCee7 5 ай бұрын
It seems like a great video, but since I’m just a DIY person I’m confused about one BIG aspect. This video seems to show how to make all the double joists, and reinforce them etc, but it’s skipping over the steps of HOW you cut the original joists without the ceiling falling and losing any structural integrity? It JUMPS right from the original ceiling rafters, into the revised version, without showing you, how to temporary support the load bearing while you’re cutting & removing the original factor spacing.
@Luckingsworth
@Luckingsworth 5 ай бұрын
You go really quick. That is a joke of course. You add the extra joists first, then you can cut the existing one that existed between without issue.
@MikeCee7
@MikeCee7 5 ай бұрын
@@Luckingsworth​​⁠​​⁠ but it appears in all (most) of the examples, to Start, an original joists has to be cut, Before adding the new joists (perpendicular to the original direction of the joists) Examples 0:21, 2:32, 5:32. So my question (again) is: How do you keep the structure & integrity while you’re cutting the original joist?
@thungp
@thungp 5 ай бұрын
You could install blocking between the joists you are going to cut and the joists you wil not be cutting. To be safe could use structural screws (to make it easy to take out later if you wanted to). Presumably you would be screwing through the ends of the ends of the blocking through the face if attaching joists. Would want to make sure they are long enough and can support the load of the existing remaining joists you will be cutting, until you install the cross joists for the opening you need. You may need to stagger the blocking to be able to pilot drill through the ends before securing with fastener. Else toe nail/screwing may also be an option. For extra safety could install temporary posts and beam under the joists you plan to cut, to support the joists you plan to cut until you can secure the cut joists with the cross joists you plan to secure across the joists you plan to leave in place and not cut. Would want to do research on length of screws type of screws or nails and how many.
@alex1975uk
@alex1975uk 4 ай бұрын
Ceiling joists only hold the ceiling up. Nothing bad will happen if you cut 1.
@gredystar8333
@gredystar8333 Ай бұрын
I just did this in my home. I screwded in a 2x10 board on top of the joists i was cutting on both sides of the cut. The board i used was long enough to screw 2 joists past the ones i was cutting and either side. Didn't have to do any blocking, and it turned out fine.
@lilroyroy
@lilroyroy 3 жыл бұрын
I'm planning on installing a pull down attic ladder in my hallway. What's your email where I can best reach you? I wanna show you my attic and my hallway. I would like to get some advice and if it's possible to do it in my ceiling. Thanks
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding 3 жыл бұрын
Our email address can be found at our website and there's a link in the video description box to the site.
@billjones2005
@billjones2005 Жыл бұрын
NOT 1 video on youtube - have I found that states "you need "X" amount of inches from your pull down end to any beam !!!! I installed mine - with pull down end at a beam - installed my unit & it would NOT pull down - geometry / trigonometry (???) will not NOT let unit come down far enough to triple hinge out - it hits the beam :-(((((((
@stairbuilding
@stairbuilding Жыл бұрын
I would think that information would have been in the instructions, but if not, bummer.
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