Firs off, I want to mention that I am a purist, and I basically agree with you. Playing without a shoulder rest isnt an issue and is actually easier for some people. But I also want to say that the only reason it's so easy for you is because you have those giant hunky bull muscles on the back of your shoulders connecting to your neck... that's certainly acting like a shoulder rest.... most of us basic Bs dont have that much muscle definition 😭😭😭

Oof TwoSetViolin got roasted for once

This changed my life! Ive been playing with shoulder rest for 19 years and thought upper body pain was just a price to pay when playing. After trying this, this is the first time in my life where I have practiced for more than an hour without upper back, left shoulder and neck pain. You are the bossman my guy! Cheers from UK!

64 year old raw beginner. I was told I absolutely must use a shoulder rest. I’ve tried two different designs in as many positions as I can think of. The question has always been “how come so many great players don’t use a shoulder rest or even their chins to hold the violin?” Now I know. Thank you. The shoulder rest gets consigned to the junk box and now I understand that holding the instrument won’t feel natural at first and that’s okay. Probably the most pivotal lesson so far! 👍🙏

I was having anxiety almost seeing 90 percent of the violinists on youtube having shoulder rests, i was desperately looking for a video on vibrato without shoulder rests and i found nothing. Thank you so much for this video, adds a little comfort and motivation to continue practicing the violin lol

Heifetz didn’t use a shoulder rest but he used a shoulder pad underneath his suit. In fact, most 20th century violinists who don’t use shoulder rests still used some sort of support, besides Perlman, Ricci, and Gitlis.

I had been trying to teach myself to play the violin but I got discouraged and gave up because I could NEVER get a chin rest/shoulder rest combo that didn't feel awkward as hell. (I was a voice major in college and I also play the flute, but stringed instruments confound me.) This has inspired me to give it a go again, forgoing the shoulder rest altogether, especially since the kind of music I would like to play is Celtic fiddle tunes, which would not have been played with a shoulder rest initially anyway! Thanks for inspiring me to give it another try!

I began using a shoulder rest as young adult because of pain in my neck. I tried them all-Kun, Playonaire, Mach I-the pain got worse. Then I remembered what Milstein told me when I was 16 or so (He was very accessible after concerts) "You hold the viol;in with the left hand." No violinist was more egonomonically correct than he was, which is prbably why he was able to play so well for so long. I stopped using the shoulder rest. Pain went away. Intonation, tone, facility improved. I would take it a step further: I think it is a good idea-as an experiment-to try playing without a chin rest, just so the student can feel what it's like not to clamp the violin with the chin.

I began to play without a shoulder rest about 5 years ago. And it's cured all my technical problems.

This SOB is a GODSEND!!!!! The most underrated violin channel on KZfaq. Why there isn't a gazillion views & subscribers is beyond me. SUBSCRIBED!!!!!!!!!!

I'm still a violin beginner since I haven't played it for that long, but one of my first problems was tension, just like so many other beginners. I thought it had to do with my long neck and thin body, struggled for a whole day trying different positions for my shoulder rest, but nothing really worked and I ended up with a fully raised shoulder rest as and clamping my chin to the violin, a very awkward position that of course resulted in more pain. But as I'm a trained guitarist and is used to support the instrument with my hand, I finally tried with no shoulder rest and to my surprise, everything immediately got easier! More flexibility, the violin is lighter to hold, and it's closer to my body resulting in better contact between the instrument/player. I still have a lot of training to do getting used to all the ergonomics, so this video and your instructions were really helpful! Thank you so much!

I just recently bought a violin and I was thinking about ordering a shoulder rest. Murphy changed my mind.

How you joke about stuff tells me a lot about how good of a teacher you are. 😍

Thank you so much! I just started 8 months ago and have struggled with shoulder rests, chin rests and neck strain. After watching this video, I played without it and OMG! I can really “feel” the violin and turns out all of my issues were due to strain/tensions. So no shoulder rest for me ever again! Thank you again for opening a new world of playing, my teachers never even thought of removing the rest, They just kept telling me I needed to relax. It was the position not being right. Very excited to really starting to play this instrument FINALLY!

I'm thrilled to have discovered this video! I played the violin from the time I was in the 2nd grade until I left for college. My parents purchased a fine violin for me directly from Toscha Seidel. (People as old as I am and true students of the students of Leopold Auer will recognize him). For over 60 years, my violin sat a shelf reminding me that I wished I would get back to it. When I finally did it, I was immediately reminded that you can't just pick it up and play. Some of the issues are caused by all the changes which seem to have occurred in recommended style of play. A big one was the question of shoulder rests. During my years of playing, the most common "shoulder rest" was just a cloth. Now, I've been told that shoulder rests are de rigueur. I was surprised to hear of this change over the years. Mr. Murphy, as an aside, mentioned that shoulder rests have only been in fashion for about the last 50 years, so after I stopped playing. The moral of this story is that I don't have to try to adapt to using a shoulder rest; they just seem like uncomfortable and clumsy to my untrained shoulder.

As a beginner I started with shoulder rest but have constant tense in the neck. After watching this I decided to take the shoulder rest off and although I have to lower my head more, I have less tension and pain in the neck. Gradually I can feel less stress in the neck/shoulder joints. To add one more content: I recommend the shoulder pad(a round plain pad attached/tied to violin) rather than nothing or a typical shoulder rest. Because a shoulder pad provides more friction and keeps the flexibility as well.

I got a bonmusica rest a while back and it helped me greatly improve my playing. When I was learning I used just a small foam pad but it felt awful. My neck is a bit on the longer side so the little extra height and support really helps and makes it sit incredibly comfortably on my collar bone so I have zero tension compared to when I play without one

Love this video. I play without a shoulder rest. My playing and comfort has improved dramatically. I use a high chin rest made by Kreddle. The violin rests on my collar bone and left hand. I now feel that I can shift much better with the greater connection to the violin. It feels like I am shifting through the instrument rather than imposing my left hand on that which is locked in place. Big game changer for me. When I was starting violin in the 60’s, I never used a shoulder rest. Somehow I got started and then suffered neck and shoulder pain. No more of that now. I have no problem with all the great players that use the rest. It’s not for me.

I have a long neck and got a super tall chin rest that helped. But could never get a comfortable shoulder rest - until a new teacher suggested ditching it. So much more comfortable. Thanks for for this video and also for showing clearly how to hold it in your left hand. (Turns out I'm already doing that - yay!)

I like the fact, that the thumb is automatically involved and active when doing shifts, because it needs to. When I shift with a shoulder rest my thumb tends to be lazy or scared ^^ and do not move together with the hand and the other fingers. :)

In the closing remarks of his book "Left-Hand Technique" Ruggiero Ricci suggests exactly the same, that the left hand will have better contact with the instrument. I was skeptical at first, but decided to ditch my shoulder rest for 2 days of practice (after 14 years playing with shoulder rest). Immediately, I noticed an improvement in accuracy of my shifts and much less neck tension. It was a truly mind-blowing moment. Thank you for this video, it is helping me to further understand the thumb and its relationship to other fingers while playing shoulder rest free.

I’ve been playing violin for about 20 months. I could NOT play with a shoulder rest, the tension was unbelievable. I thought I had a long neck but maybe it is my high shoulders? So, from the beginning I have been playing without a shoulder rest. I can say the challenge has been all about releasing tension in my left hand. Sometimes I am better than others and sometimes I am learning new notes and have to re-work the tension out. Thank you thank you for this video! I’ve been experimenting and challenging this on my own, it’s so great to hear a professional discuss this.

This video literally changed my playing for the better. I am a professional violinist who has been using a shoulder rest for my whole 30 year career, but I took your advice and tried playing without it. What an amazing difference! I find I can be much more expressive and I feel much less tension. My violin (an 1850 J.B. Vuillaume) sounds better, too. Like it can breathe again. I sincerely thank you.

I struggled to find just the right height and angle and chin placement with my shoulder rest, buying all kinds of expensive rest, just to watch your video and realize I didn’t need one! Thank you, I hope to be free of my shoulder rest now that I have spent so much time acclimating myself to it. I have noticed that my fourth finger sounds a lot more clear with out having a Shoulder rest, so I hope this is the right move for me.

Very interesting ! Just a detail : oistrakh always played with a shoulder rest. I saw it un many videos because ì m a huge fan of his free playing. He used a small coussin, I mean kind of black sponge to keep an angle with the violin. You can really see it on many videos if you pay attention. Congrats for your work

I got ripped in 4 weeks now I can play without a shoulder rest. Haha. Great video. I'm convinced I'll always play with a shoulder rest but I've just started experimenting without shoulder rest and it's definitely changing how I think about shifting.

I really appreciate this advice, it goes against what literally everyone else on KZfaq is saying... I think it's about to save me an insane amount of neck strain. I do find it most comfortable to keep the shoulder rest (probably because I'm on a viola and it helps with the added weight), but not feeling the need to hold my instrument up with my shoulder and chin is a great relief. Every time I start to get serious about practicing, I end up putting it away after a few weeks because of the upper body tension/pain. Maybe with this new way of playing I'll be able to stick with it. Here's hoping!

Thank you so much for your work!! Precise and intelligent explanations. Congrats.

Two thumbs up ! Thanks for a very informative lesson !

My shoulder rest bit the dust tonight. I’ve been playing without one and I actually like it better. Thank you for your video!

Howdy, thanks for your informative video. As someone who has done it both ways - and in the end decided to play without - I would like to share my experience. First off, I started learning violin at a time when shoulder rests were still not very common amongst students. On the other hand, I was taught to sandwich the violin firmly between my chin and the shoulder without support from the left arm. Since I have a long neck, I would need to shrug to keep my fiddle in place. This, of course, caused my right shoulder to shrug as well, which created a lot of tension while playing. Shifting also became less agile was I paid more attention maintaining the position of my violin. So I bought a shoulder rest to hope that it would solve these problems. The effect was immediate. I was able to play with level shoulders, which improved tone production through better movement on both arms. However, I noticed that playing was getting uncomfortable, as I could no longer bring my violin to my bow easily, but instead I had to strech my right arm to bring the bow to the violin. In addition, the violin still kept slipping off my shoulder (I incorrectly assumed that the shoulder rest would secure my violin in place). I ended up playing it in a slightly contorted position, which resulted in neck pain after prolonged playing. In time I learnt to keep my shoulders level without the shoulder rest. I also accepted that you can never keep the violin in place without some support from the left arm. Playing became much more free and comfortable. I was able to retain the tone (and perhaps better) I got from using the shoulder rest, while without the restriction and ergonomic concerns. In a sense, the shoulder rest was like the training wheel which allowed me to know how I should be playing.

I play with a shoulderrest and a piece of cloth that is held in place by the tailpiece instead of a chinrest. I tried playing without a shoulderrest for a while but I think this is much more comfortable and gives me more freedom than playing without a shoulderrest, which I also tried for a while. I could play without a shoulderrest just fine but the problem was, that I never got used to the constant fear, that I could make a mistake and see my precious violin hit the ground and disintegrate. Also I prefer my violin to be angled forward in relation to my upper body because It gives my left hand a lot more freedom. I will just lean back a bit when I need that extra weight on the strings.

Great info in your videos man. Picked up a violin for the first time four days ago after wanting to for a while. Appreciate you

Wow! This is an eye-opener. Thanks so much.

Thanks for your video. I played violin for 2 years with shoulder rest. I have not played for the last 6 months due to chronic pain in neck, upper back, shoulders. I miss it alot. I came across your video recently and am going to give it a try as the way you explain it makes alot of sense. Thankyou. I also started learning at 47 years hahaha so old

Thank you very much! Brand new (60 year old) to the violin and my first lesson with an instructor caused nothing but pain as I tried to clamp the violin using a shoulder rest. I cam home to do my practice and played with the rest a while and then thought I would Google playing without it...... Complete change in the ability to hold my fingers correctly after this! Having played the guitar for 45 years the violin left hand position is foreign to me but without the rest, using a a very thin piece of foam for slippage, I can now position my hand correctly. Thanks for the insights and great delivery.

Fantastic video!! Ditching the shoulder rest when I was 17 was the best decision ever - so much more freedom!

Just starting out and this video helped me immensely! Thanks so much!

You have truly opened my mind

excellent- thank you! This was really helpful.

Thank you so much for making this video. I started playing at 21 and have struggled to get relaxed and figured it was do to the late start. After watching it I proceeded to play with my shoulder rest but with the use of my left hand. It’s phenomenal, the ease of playing. It’s like I’ve been trying to jump rope on one foot 🎉🙏🙏🙏

I’ve been playing with the shoulder rest, but I’ve been working on freeing myself of the shoulder rest, because I find it ultimately gives the player more flexibility and better ergonomics … My experience so far dictates that you are 100% right on everything you said about the pros and cons of using and not using the shoulder rest! Thank you again for an excellent video in violin pedagogy.👍👍

Awesome advice! I’m one day in to learning to play, and already have been stressing about the shoulder rest, I can’t get it right…so glad to have a reason to start again without it!

You're my hero. Thanks for your example. Your efforts inspire.

I find this a terrific presentation of this subject, very compelling. May I suggest that you make a video exploring the kinds of sounds, the quality and bigness of sounds one can make without a rest that differ from the sounds achievable with one. I believe that the best argument for having this “rest-less” attitude towards the instrument (even if one chooses to use a shoulder rest as the example at 14:00 showed so perfectly) is based on sound potential of the different support method options.

As a beginner, I appreciate this so much! It really helped and I've learned a lot!

I’ve been looking for this for months! Thank you so much for the detailed explanation and examples! I’ve been practicing now for about 7 months and my only real issue right now seems to be maintaining balance when playing the E string. Though considering what you said about moving the violin around to easily bow the strings, it may be the solution I’ve been seeking. I’ll go try that.. right now!

I was in a audition and this professional French horn player on a panel got Mad at me that Why I'm not using a showlder rest, it was long time ago, and I said to him, I can't afford one and he got very mad, but I played anyway. The reason behind was because I was still more comfortable to play without a showlder rest and Young as well. Now I'm enjoying playing with a showlder rest. THIS VIDEO MEANS A LOT, THANK YOU 👏👏👏🤜🤛

Great advice and encouragement.

Thank you. This answered a lot of my questions. 😊

Fantastic . Shoulder rest is like trying to swim the plympics with water wings !!

Many thanks for your explanation. I am an adult self-taught player with good musical background from other instruments and activities. Being able to sit in my daughter’s violin classes with a wonderful teacher (Russian school influenced), I just went for it and reached a satisfying level. Then I stopped for various reasons and came back after several years, viola this time. I’ve been struggling terribly just to hold he instrument, tension and pains everywhere and I thought I would give that up for good. Now I am motivated again and I am going to give it a fresh start. Yo!

After playing 15 years without shoulder rest I decided 3 years ago to experiment without the chinrest and it's wonderful, the freedom is unique. you have to experiment with the point of gravity and with the variety of angles of inclination very subtly, almost imperceptibly.

I have returned to the violin at 64. Now I have a neck C4 C5 problem, and also a deep partial tear in my left shoulder muscle. So the shoulder rest is the only way for me to avoid pain. But I guess I'm a special case. And I've had to relearn muscular movements which were automatic when I was young

Thank you for this video. I learned violin as a child 40+ years ago with a little moon-shaped pad for a shoulder rest. When I took up violin again a few years ago, I just couldn't get comfortable with modern shoulder rests. I did try, but it just didn't feel natural. I gave up trying. Thanks for validating my decision!

Folk fiddlers sometimes play with the violin supported by the chest, entirely away from the neck and shoulder. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about this. (Note: I originally posted this comment with a link to a KZfaq video that had an example, but for some inexplicable reason KZfaq suppressed that comment. KZfaq does that a _lot_ these days, which I find infuriating And they are sneaky about it: the only way to even tell that your comment has been suppressed is to open the video in private mode and see if you can see it there).

I learnt to play the violin as a teenager and never used a shoulder rest because I was too lazy to put the darn thing on. I remember finding learning the violin easy... I've recently picked it up again this year during lockdown (24 years later) and I've been religiously using a shoulder rest. I'm now curious to try without it again and see how it goes! Maybe my lazy approach was why it was easier!

This makes very good sense. I am going to give it a try because there never seems to be a shoulder rest that actually fits my body.

Wow I have been struggling to hold violin with neck and chin for my entire playing life. I can’t wait to try the no shoulder rest thing.

Thank you for this video. I have returned to violin after a break of ...oh, 20 years. I play without a shoulder rest and am doing concentrated work on learning positions. I was trying to stablize the violin with the shoulder-chin death grip in higher positions - which doesn't really work without the shoulder rest and makes the G string impossible to control. (I even pulled out an old shoulder rest to try to fix the problem - which adds stability but feels terrible). Thank you for letting me know it's ok (preferable even) to let the left thumb do the stabilizing work. I am now feeling more comfortable moving up the fingerboard.

Great channel!! Thanks!

Hi just started today and was trying to figure out how to in every way this is my way of trying everything out without having to. tuning and then going for it in a slow motion to get a good sound thank you everyone who has added to this for the information. 😊

Brilliant video

I had a teacher once that made me play without. I think Heifetz had a thin piece of rubber in there. I just dug up some old pieces of leather and a piece about 3"x10" that will also go over the chin rest! And thanks for the Shostakovitch!

I started to transition out of using a shoulder rest about a year ago, it wasn’t easy at first, but eventually I completely dropped it, now I can’t imagine playing with one ever again. Thank you for the video.

I feel that I play better, sound better without a shoulder rest, though I do not have a wealth of education and experience. My intonation improves in a more consistent manner. I do not like feeling separated from my instrument. I feel I can better judge what is happening under my own ear when I don't use a shoulder rest. Everything seems more natural and organic without one.

I use a tall shoulder and chin rest BUT... have found as I get better at the violin, I'm holding it up with my hands exactly as you describe... not with my chin and shoulder. I may try it without the shoulder rest some time soon.

My first violin came yesterday. Without shoulder rest. I thought damn, should’ve thought about that but slowly I get why this is actually a good thing. Will learn it without.

the most beautiful thing about playing without shouler rest is one less accessory to carry

Haha I reacted the same as you hearing TwoSetviolin say that. Great video. Just a question: how do you handle shifting with sweaty hands during a concert or an audition? After a while in which I struggled with this I tried using baby powder on my thumb and index and it worked out fine :D bit still not optimal, since it goes away after a few minutes and the thumb returns sticky again. cheers from Italy x

Great video! It's late at night and I can't put your suggestions into practice until tomorrow, but try I will. I can't wait to see what happens to my playing. 😀 I'll let you know. 👍

Good advice , learned to play as a kid by pushing my (long) neck in the chin rest … got aches and problems and led to me stop playing . Started again after 20 year break and needed to find a relaxed way to hold the violin and to play ! Will probably need a shoulder rest (my violin goes down my shoulder and collar bone very easy …I am quite thin and have a very long neck and the violin hasn’t got much leaning surface…) but just learning the technique of the thumb will be a key for my future new relaxed way and the only way I will be able to play !!!)

Saw this video 6-7 months ago and started playing with no chin rest. I liked it because it gave me much better control and regular chin rests didn’t work well with my long neck. After a couple months I got symptoms of a pinched nerve in my neck which causes a lot of pain in my arm and shoulder. I have many other contributing factors such as age (62), working all day on computer and lots of physical activity. I went to my luthier and he set me up with a custom fit chin rest. I don’t have the same freedom of movement but with the PT I’ve been doing for a few weeks the pain is less. This may not be a problem for a lot of people but please consider. Your nerve bundles come out of your neck next to your vertebrae so pinching down to your shoulder with your chin may not be the best.

Great video and insight. "Ye Men" playing the Brahms is a fine example ;) 👍🎻

But, but, but, doesn't common violin technique require holding the violin with the chin to free up the left hand to move over the fretboard more easily and quickly? To do that, you might need a shoulder rest to bring the violin up higher. Otherwise, you would have to crank your neck and chin down to meet the violin. Did you notice that most of those violinists shown were "no neck" people? What about us giraffe neck people? Isn't it helpful to elevate the violin so you're not twisting and bending your neck to hold it and inducing great pain as a result?

Interestingly, I have a photo of Oistrakh changing a string and there's a shoulder rest on his violin. A small one that goes across from one edge of the bout to the end pin.

Your advice is so helpful. I am a classical pianist. Was given a violin so am teaching myself. But, was concerned about the fact that I'm learning without a shoulder rest and how I should use my thumb. This video is incredibly helpful.

I'm a beginner adult on violin. I've played many other instruments so finding the notes has been easy, but holding with my chin was frustrating. It hurt like hell. You just improved my tone on a cheap fiddle with generic strings to where it sounds like I've played for a little while. No more pain in the neck. Thanks!

I agree with much of what you're saying. However, Suzuki did not advocate playing without a s/rest. He demonstrated without a s/rest simply when playing open string and to maximise the resonance. However, I play shoulder restless and teach this too and again agree with your main thesis. No need for the Suzuki bashing - no method (yuk) is perfect and SM is far form perfect.

Ohhh you just showed me a completely new world. Thank you good sir, have your like

I love you bro you actually just saved my life do you actually just saved my actual life I have been struggling with this so damn hard

Totally agree with you Tobiah. After studying the violin for about a year I just could not get comfortable with a shoulder rest. I began trying to play without one. I noticed two things: 1) the violin sounded better--it was more resonant, more volume, an overall richer sound. Swapping the shoulder rest on and off definitely demonstrated that it caused a muting effect on how the instrument converted the wave energy of the strings into sound. 2) it felt more natural, more organic, to let the violin move around as opposed to remaining in a fixed position due to the shoulder rest. It felt strange to move around while playing, only to have the instrument remain static. The only downsides I've experienced has been on figuring out shifting and vibrato with the left hand providing support for the instrument. Oh, and tuning. That's probably been one of the bigger challenges, especially with the fine tuners while tuning the strings to perfect fifths. Any recommendations for that? (Disclosure: I'm a lefty so my left hand is naturally the stronger one. Perhaps that might also be a factor in why it felt more natural for me...and why others may feel differently.)

I only recently began teaching myself violin. I got myself a nicer violin, and it came with a shoulder rest. I have a pacemaker, and the shoulder rest keeps the violin from smashing against where my pacemaker wires come out - causing discomfort. After watching this video, I'll give it another whirl without the rest. Some of the example videos on here show me that it might be possible for me, without the discomfort.

Please compare neck lengths of ‘no shoulder rest advocates’ and those that use one. I think you’ll find that the ‘no’ bunch have rather shorter necks than the ‘yes’ bunch!! Mine’s long. I use a shoulder rest!

I tried playing without a shoulder rest in one of my recent practice sessions and the main thing I noticed was my right arm tension improving a ton. I do have quite defined collarbones (I don't think that's a universal, hence the differences in difficulty for switching off a shoulder rest) so the transition was pretty straightforward but I did want to watch a video to have a fuller picture if I do decide to mostly forgo the rest.

Really cool "takes" on that ending of rondo capriccioso ;)

Freedom of movement lets the body dance. Great video in at least a dozen ways. I'm off to find more of that heavy metal you were doing.

Another big issue with s.r. is that they are designed for quite an specific shape of players. In narrow shoulder, skinny and or shorter players, s.r. sits on the shoulder joint, therefore, causing a lot of issues.

Awesome!

All I know is when I was complaining of neck pain I talked to a former concert master for the orchestra in our city who was a friend of my parents. First thing she said was, you need a shoulder rest because you have a long neck. Fill up that space. But your points about intonation and shifting and left hand technique are well made. I could use some work there.

At my first lesson the teacher told me to put on my shoulder rest. I asked her if I had to because I hate it. She looked at me like I had 2 heads then finally said. Do as you like. I played for along time without one. But because of neck pain I started to use one and found that my bowing greatly improved as a result of a consistently placed violin. Vibrato is easier to learn with a rest too. However, I am playing without the shoulder rest again as it really is, in my opinion, the best way to play. I like the loose style of playing you bring to attention here and am going to strive for that. Thanks!

Instantly subscribed after hearing intro jam!

In one of his videos, Nate Cole mentions a book he came across containing advanced techniques that could not be done easily with the shoulder rest. I play without, but I'm still working on the thumb thing.

I used to actually use a shoulder rest. But one year I went out of my country for vacation and took my violin with me, but I forgot my shoulder rest. For about 3 weeks I played without a shoulder rest. It started very hard, but soon it felt very comfortable, and when I came back I tried my shoulder rest and hated it. I still play without a shoulder rest, but my teacher recommends that I should use a shoulder rest since sometimes I lift my shoulder up a bit. Do you have any recommendations on how I can still play without a shoulder rest but not lift my shoulder?

Lol this video makes me so proud I never used a shoulder rest. As I got older at my school everyone else started getting them, and being at a fancy-shmancy private school I felt poor because I couldn’t get one 💀 (the violin itself was already expensive). Anyways, it’s cool to know that I can do something not many people do anymore without some re-learning. Great video!

I agree with EVERYTHING you say about lack of tension and keeping the fiddle out of the Valley between your thumb and index finger. However, young students, and just about any beginner, will want to RAISE their shoulder and press down their head in order to feel secure when holding their fiddle withOUT a shoulder rest. If a student is using muscular tension to keep the instrument in place when using a shoulder rest then it must be pointed out that gravity pulling their head down into the chin rest is what's going to keep the instrument secure, especially when shifting. Too much tension will be the result of NOT using a shoulder rest. Yes, your examples of great violinists are relevant. I'm curious how long it took them to play tension free not having some device to make up the difference between their neck length and width of the fiddle.

If I can play my 17.5 inch viola without a shoulder rest without any problem.. there's no excuse for violinists. Liked the video, I wholeheartedly agree that playing without one helps intonation because you have to feel each note, also it relys heavily for bigger shifts of intermediary notes, which we all should know anyways. Hope you're keeping well!

I FEEL SO LIED TO. I remember my very first lesson at Suzuki at age 4 was to demonstrate that I could clamp the violin between my shoulder and my chin and hold it up with both arms down. I developed an association from a young age between practice and PAIN. I feel like so much of my reluctance to practice and my eventual 20 year hiatus from playing was due in part to this negative association and tension that I developed so early on. I've just started playing again recently and I'm going to keep the shoulder rest but embrace this much looser and relaxed approach and see how it affects my technique. Now if only I can get the disapproving glares of my former teachers out of my head. Anyway, thank you!

The best thing I did for myself was removing the shoulder rest (I am skinny so I do put a cloth folded just enough to pad my collar bone). The second best thing I did was start my student without one. I got quite a different result in them. First thing I noticed, is a more relaxed violin hold (after they got used to violin). They improved left hand position much faster. I've made a complete switch in my playing after I took some time (couple of months) with very little to not playing, and restarting without s.r. Suddenly many things I struggle for years started to change to almost desapear.

thank you - my daughter in law doesn’t use a shoulder rest and I could never figure out how. This was very helpful - I’m going to mess around with it and see what I can do (long neck and all!).