There are many ways to wire an outlet or a circuit, so it's difficult to cover every possible scenario. Glad you got your problem solved.

Agreed--the terminology can be very confusing. It would be better if the boxes were labeled by how they are installed rather than how they are typically used.

It won't necessarily be complicated, it just depends on how they did it originally. I'd suggest getting your meter out and carefully drawing out how it is wired. The key is to find where power is supplied, and then the other associated wiring will begin to make sense. So use a volt meter to locate the power source. Then with that power disconnected you may be able to use an ohmmeter or continuity tester to trace out where the other wires go. You might want to check out this other video of mine. The subject is completely unrelated, but it does show some electrical troubleshooting ideas you might find useful: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p5dyZNp51Z2lqqc.html

@@enduringcharm Yes! continuity tester. I saw that on someone else's video. "That's the ticket!" Thanks so much. Please keep doing these videos! So grateful

​So if I'm understanding these comments correctly. If someone wants to make a switched outlet into a continuous outlet while re-purposing the switch for an overhead light install all that would need to be done is; find the source power, and put that to the outlet, and have that also go parallel to the switch for the overhead light power. Right? I wouldn't assume running an overhead light plus a common electrical device on a single circuit would be too much of a load.

If you want to eliminate the switch you can probably do that, although you do typically want SOME switch when you enter the room to turn on a light. So you might repurpose the existing switch for a new overhead light, for example. If power enters the receptacle box then you could disconnect and cap the wiring to the switch in that box, disconnect and cap the wiring to the switch in the switch box, and put a cover over it.

There are numerous ways to wire a three way switch, so I can't comment precisely on your situation. However, if your switch is wired in a way that sends power directly from the closest switchbox to the current light, then it would be easy to add a wire for your new sconce. It may also be possible to expand the existing box to add another switch for your sconce if power goes through that existing box. There are lots of possibilities, but you need to understand how power is routed through your existing box in order to make an informed choice.

@@enduringcharm since it's my own house and I wasn't sure I took a large piece out of the drywall. Much easier to trace wires I can see. It is set up to have the 2nd switch only have the traveler [14/3] that was existing. The 1st switch has the traveler, a 14/2 wire from the previously switched receptacle for a power source and a 14/2 going to the new round box for the sconce. So once it is all wired up and working correctly I will patch up my giant hole. I did decide to turn the original receptacle into a quad because that might prevent having a power strip there. The main breaker box has whole house surge protection so if I have enough recepracles I can plug the tv and cable directly into the wall instead.

What you describe is not a normal configuration, especially the switched GFCI. Nor is it normal to have three receptacles controlled by a switch. I suspect a homeowner was in there at some point and made some unfortunate alterations. I've seen some frightening homeowner wiring over the years, and I would strongly urge you to find a local licensed electrician to come straighten that out. It isn't worth the risk and if the circuit was as poorly designed as that then there is likely to be other problems too.

There are so many ways to wire a circuit it's difficult for me to comment without seeing it in person. It is fine to have more than one receptacle or device on a circuit, of course, but just be cautious that the grounds and the neutrals are properly configured. It is possible to have a light work but the wiring be configured incorrectly.

@@enduringcharm ok I’ll pop it open and use my multimeter to check it out. Thanks for the input

Unfortunately there is no simple answer. There are many ways to wire a circuit correctly, and you really have to evaluate each circuit to understand how it is wired. The circuit I showed in the video is a common configuration, but far from the only one. And, it is certainly possible to mis-wire a circuit in a way that will work but which could also be dangerous. So it is likely you can accomplish what you want to do, but you need to trace all the cables coming into each box in order to reconfigure them correctly. I once ran across a single circuit in a house in which the homeowner had accidentally tied together two breakers! Not good. So you'll need to trace the power coming into each box, confirm where it goes and where it came from, and then you can determine how to reconfigure. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, hire an electrician for a few hours to get it right. It isn't worth the risk.

@@enduringcharm thank you so much man! i really appreciate you taking the time to type this out! i appreciate it TONS!

Two things to remember. First, there are a whole bunch of ways to wire an outlet properly, so it's pretty difficult to make guesses about wiring without seeing it in person. Second, just because a box is wired a certain way doesn't mean it was done correctly in the first place! You can't assume anything when it comes to electricity. What you are describing doesn't make sense to me, so I suspect that either there is some old homeowner-grade wiring you are looking at or maybe you are misinterpreting what you see. You say that both tabs are not broken? Yet only the top receptacle works with the switch? That doesn't make sense, unless the whole outlet is damaged and faulty. You also say that you only see two wires--a black hot and a bare ground? Is that correct? If so then you are missing your neutral and somebody used a ground as a neutral, which is not good. Is there a second set of wires connected to the receptacle, leading to another part of the circuit? All I can suggest is to take a picture of what you have now, and then remove the receptacle from the box so you can test the wires individually with a meter. Find out which is really hot, which is ground and where your neutral went.

Oh, I think I follow now. So you are saying that in the box for the switch itself you only have the black hot wire, which is attached to the switch. Put another way, you have a single cable going into the box for the switch, and the two wires in the cable are coded black for hot. If that's what you have, it means that the source of the power is elsewhere in the room, and that switch is just used to interrupt the black wire/power located in another box. So you need to find the other box where the actual power comes in. That could be in the box for the light or it could be in almost any other box nearby. Once you trace down the source of power you can determine how to reconfigure it for your needs. That may mean running new cables, though, depending on the circuit configuration.

You could certainly do what you wish, but you'll likely have to run at least one cable between the ceiling fan box and the switch. Or, possibly between the ceiling fan and the receptacle box. You'll need to call in an electrician to find the most efficient means of running the cable, but it can be done.

Probably, but I'd have to examine the wiring to tell you how to do it. Any outlet is going to be part of an entire circuit. So you need to determine what is before that outlet and what is after that outlet. Sometimes you get lucky and that is the end if the run, other times you'll need to run another cable to connect whatever is on either side of the outlet. And, sometimes there are other things in that box you need to account for. There is almost always a way to reconfigure, though.

Possibly. It depends on how the original circuit was wired. Of course, that would leave you with a non-working switch in the wall.

These problems can certainly be solved, but it will require some onsite troubleshooting. Probably your porch and entrance lights were wired that way by somebody who was trying to save time or money. The question will be where the power comes in. The power could be supplied to the switch box and go out to the lights from there, or it could be going to one of the light boxes and be fed through the switch from there. You'll have to investigate. Either way, in order to separate the lights you'll need to run another cable to at least one of them from the existing switch box or to a new one. The ideal solution will depend on the physical layout. Electricians do this sort of stuff routinely, and they have ways of pulling new wires without causing too much damage. Since your house was built in the 50s there's a pretty good chance you may have some other wiring issues to consider, such as the age and condition of the cables and the presence of a ground or not. Houses wired after WWII in the 40s and 50s tend to be where I find the most "creative" wiring! So I would recommend finding a pro to help you with this one, but I would not expect it to be a huge expensive project.

You have to understand that there isn't just one way to run a circuit or a switch or an outlet. There are many, many ways they can be run, all of them correctly. So it's impossible to give you specific advice from a distance. To redesign an existing circuit it needs to be tested and examined, and then a new circuit designed to work with what is there. What I can tell you is that this sort of thing is beyond what a homeowner should be attempting--you'll need to call an electrician. I see some horrific wiring sometimes during remodels, from homeowners who got in over their heads! I suspect it won't be a big deal to reconfigure what you have there, but you should have a pro do it for you and be safe.

If there is only one cable in the box with a single white and single black, and a switch controls the outlet, then the power likely will be supplied through the box housing the switch. You could open that box to check and if that's the source you could connect the outlet directly and replace the switch with a blanking plate. You'll have to investigate that box, however. As for the black wire going to the silver terminal, that is wrong. Possibly it is also reversed somewhere else in the circuit, however. You could check with a meter or a plug-in outlet tester.

There's a good chance that you can reconfigure the switched outlet and add a cable from that box to your recessed light, or add a cable from the switch box to your recessed light. It will depend on how they were originally wired, and you likely will need to cut access holes in the ceiling and/or walls in order to run the new cable.

I don't have enough information to give you a complete solution, but I can offer some basic guidance. In household electrical circuits the power flows from the circuit breaker or fuse and down a cable toward the first "device." That device is typically a receptacle or perhaps a light. Or, the cable may go to a junction box where it is connected to other cables for power distribution. If the first device is a receptacle, then that receptacle itself acts as a means to continue the flow of electricity because another cable is attached to the terminals of the receptacle. So if you pull off an outlet cover and you see two cables in the box, each connected to the terminals on the receptacle, you know that the outlet is somewhere in the middle of the "run." If you pull off the cover and only see one cable connected to the receptacle and no other wires in the box, you know that the outlet is the last device on the run. from your description, that may be the case with your outlet. In that case, since your whole run of three receptacles is controlled by a single switch, the power to that last box is being fed from another box in the run. It may be possible to separate that last receptacle from switched control, but it would need to be done "upstream" from that last box. You would need to disconnect the cables in the other boxes and determine where power is coming from and where it is going to using a meter. That is a major part of an electrician's work, actually. It is also possible that a new cable would have to be run to that last receptacle or to the box before the last receptacle in order to power it independently of the switch.

@@enduringcharm I just figured out the outlets are on a 3 way switch. 1 at each end of the room. Just bought the house and there are so many light switches. One one each end of each room for each light, it’s getting confusing lol

Well, I think I covered that--you could cut the hole to the size of a quad box if you wish. I chose to add the second single box. As far as cutting holes in the drywall, the point is to minimize repairs if possible, since it takes time and money to repair those holes.

Very true--same goes for kitchen and bath soffits. There was a time when they were all the rage and nobody wants them! Code requires a wall light switch for every habitable room, but it could be either a switched outlet or an overhead light or even sconces.

When you say the outlets are upside down, you just mean that the ground is facing up rather than down? This is actually a minor debate among electricians and some do prefer to install them that way. The good news is that if it bothers you, it's a simple matter to unscrew the receptacle from the box, and reorient it the opposite way. You may just need to redress the wires so they fit snugly.

I'm not certain I understand your question. The switch is used to interrupt the black "hot" wire if you want a switched device of any sort. If you are asking why a neutral might also continue to a box where a switch is located, it's possible that the box is also being used to house a junction for other parts of the circuit. Or, perhaps the white wire you are assuming is a neutral is actually being used as a recoded black wire.

If you don't need a switched outlet at all and you wish to remove the switch on the wall and patch the hole, you could do that. However, typically you want at least one switched outlet in a room for a light, or else a switched ceiling light.

I see. I have a voice-controlled light in the room so my switched outlet is useless and even worse my wifi is plugged into the switched outlet (only other outlet) so its a pain for me because people will accidentally switch off the wifi and ill have to wait for it to reboot. I will cap and put a blank face plate on the switch. I can see why people could need a switched outlet for a light though. I subscribed. Thanks a lot for your response.

Could you elaborate on the circumstances what you wish to achieve?

Do you mean the outlets are on a switch, and both are either on or off? In that case the little tab I mentioned in the video is still connected and the whole receptacle is fed or controlled by the switch . Otherwise, there really isn't a difference and the same options apply.

@@enduringcharm the outlets are connected on a light switch when I turn off light switch .. I want just one to work … like the outlet I have in my living room …. But both outlets turn off ?? Is there a way to fix this ..

Oh, okay, well you can certainly separate the two outlets in the receptacle by breaking the tab. Then you just need to find a way to feed the one that will no longer be on the switch. It's likely this will be easy, especially if the switch is currently used merely to interrupt the power rather than to supply it from that box. I can't really advise you more than that without seeing the circuit in person, but a local electrician would make quick work of that.

@@enduringcharm thanks 😊

True--my point about interrupting the black or "hot" wire was really more about helping people understand which wire is connected to the switch and what it does.

The more work you do on existing or older houses, the more you recognize how screwed up electrical systems can be and yet still function! If you have found a box with no neutral wire, just a hot (black) and a bare wire ground, then something was obviously done incorrectly. Without more detail I can only guess what was done. One possibility is that you actually do have a neutral but the insulation was stripped back too far or lost if it is old cloth insulation. In that case it may be the ground you are missing. That kind of thing is pretty common in houses wired in the 40s, 50s and 60s. If this is a newer house than that, another possibility is that some homeowner wired the circuit incorrectly. A light bulb or other load will light up with a ground wire used instead of a neutral. It's just unsafe, that's all. I would suggest having an electrician come take a look for you. I often find that if one circuit is badly miswired there could be others, too. Better to be safe than sorry.

My switch and plug are in the same box

Breaking the tab separates the two receptacles, but you still need to feed them each with power, so rewiring will still be involved.

@@enduringcharm Do I need another hot or another hot and nuetral?

I'd have to know the rest of the wiring circuit design to give an answer. You might be able to use what's in the box or it might require a new cable run. Probably you should contact a pro and have somebody local take a look if this is beyond your experience.