The sound actually doesn't come from the bridge, any more than it does the bridge of a guitar. The ribs on the underside of the soundboard spread the vibration to the larger soundboard area, as do the braces inside of a guitar body. The bridge itself doesn't just move up and down, but rocks back and forth perpendicular to the length. The ribs are doweled into the bridge, and the whole assembly vibrates back and forth with the bridge in the middle. Thus the actual sound from the piano comes from somewhere between the bridge and the perimeter of the case, mostly in the middle of the piano. Sound also comes from under the metal frame (aka the "plate") where there are holes to let the sound out from the back side of the bridge. Exactly where the sound comes from and which string(s) is hard to determine without using headphones and a directional mic, and thus the exact location of the "sweet spot" could be anywhere, as you have said. It would also be possible to mic the piano from the bottom (or behind for a vertical piano) since whatever sound is produced above will also be coming from below, and likely a less percussive sound as well. Not a sound engineer, but 30+ years as a piano technician. Thanks very much for your video.
@yookalaylee22892 жыл бұрын
The holes in the plate aren't specifically for letting sound out. They are designed into the casting to allow it to cool more uniformly during production. Also, there is a difference between the resonance of a sand cast and vacuum molded plate.
@cybercomets72603 жыл бұрын
This is underrated
@adamrye432 жыл бұрын
Friendly sound engineer from South Dakota here. Thank you for teaching me your method, George
@tjbuege4 жыл бұрын
Wow, this video is exactly what I need right now. I’ve been looking for ideas on getting better recordings of my piano videos. When I saw you featured piano, I about jumped out of my chair. I have a 1906 Mason and Hamlin AA! You are exactly right, this piano is very different acoustically than other pianos and I’ve struggled to get good stereo separation and balance between treble and bass. You have given me some great ideas to try. I won’t be taking the lid off, though. Lol. It’s just me and my piano in my living room. Thank you!
@thejawshop-AdventureRecording3 ай бұрын
Thanks for this, I use my R88 on the upright piano, and I will now try and drop down away from the hammers. Cheers.
@MarnixMohrmannPiano3 жыл бұрын
Quality content from experienced engineers, I'm subbed!
@aalan624 жыл бұрын
YESS!! LOVE THIS!
@ArvidOlson3 жыл бұрын
Instead of saying “you don’t want the sound of the hammers clacking and mechanical sounds”, it would be much more helpful if you only went through the difference between recording at the bridge and recording at the hammers. What someone wants is up to them. Recording at the hammers can give a very intimate, cinematic sound and is a technique that is definitely in use. Giving as much information as possible without being biased, especially if you haven’t specified that you are detailing a “classical style” or “modern jazz trio style” -recording or whatever, would be much more helpful. Also, talking about sounding “as good as possible” isn’t bad, but I do think detailing how something sounds and bringing up the differences, maybe even talking about what you deem good and why you have chosen a specific pre-amp or mic position for the sound you are after, would again, be much more helpful.
@aryanderek1093 жыл бұрын
sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know a trick to get back into an instagram account? I somehow lost the password. I would love any help you can offer me!
@aryanderek1093 жыл бұрын
@Sam Korbyn thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out now. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@aryanderek1093 жыл бұрын
@Sam Korbyn it worked and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy! Thank you so much, you saved my account!
@samkorbyn16923 жыл бұрын
@Aryan Derek Glad I could help :D
@modernmusicstudio3033 жыл бұрын
Great video! I like how you explained why a grand has more colors of sounds to deal with compared to other instruments.
@PianoforPleasure3 жыл бұрын
This was a great overview thanks! I’m still trying to find the “sweet spot” for the mic position, the gain etc. haven’t expected it can be so challenging actually.
@DistrictSoundLab4 жыл бұрын
Very dope!
@flober19704 жыл бұрын
I so agree with you about the sound coming from the bridge !
@peevonb70702 жыл бұрын
This is great thanks!
@IsraelRuizAyala3 жыл бұрын
Omg that micro + great sound engineering work sounds crazy! Im hearing the album on TIDAL. It's a pity that the micro its expensive, but i thing it worth it one day buy it. Thanks a lot, u gained a subscriber!
@fdschuler78632 жыл бұрын
Good video. I'm keen to try ribbons on my Yamaha C5. Maybe the AEA Nuvo N8's. Blumlein won't work in a room thats mid-rage intense.
@AndreasUlvo3 жыл бұрын
Great video! This is the first good video I've watched on youtube regarding recording the grand piano. Theres a lot of misconceptions about the sound coming from the hammers. As you mention, most of the sound comes from the bridge itself, and that's not very appearant unless you listen to a grand piano without the lid, then you clearly hear where the sound comes from. The main thing, I think, is to be aware of the sound, not what's necessarily the most logical from a visual point of view. The balance between having a full sound with enough low end combined with a nice, airy definition is very important. Do you use any microphones in addition to the r88 on the piano? I often use a mono room mic in addition to my r88 to get more definition and air, but my setup is constantly changing.
@djboing3 жыл бұрын
Very cool, excellent presentation! I'm working towards recording my own solo piano album so this was inspiring!
@maximusfrank28353 жыл бұрын
This is great for jazz recording, but what if I want to record real simple piano music that has a lot of damper resonance/ambiencE?
@jorgedoctormusic3 жыл бұрын
In your recordings you pan the high end of the grand piano to the right and the low end to the left. Why do you prefer that approach rather than the audience's perspective where they would listen more of the low end on the right and the high end to the left? (if you are seating in the center of course and have a great seat) Thank you!
@themike97_58 Жыл бұрын
every time i watch videos like this im always saddened when i see the recommended mics are $2k lol
@HazelriggIndustries4 жыл бұрын
If you'd like to hear out set up in action, you can download the high-res sound example here: bit.ly/39w5zhw We'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to like and subscribe!
@lotusjace2 ай бұрын
Hi George, Doug & Geoff, thank you for this great video! I have a dilemma and I hope you'd be able to help me out. I bought the R88 and the RPQ2 preamp to record at home and it turned out to big a huge mistake as the R88 picks up alot of the interference from the untreated room and makes it extremely noisy and practically impossible to use. If you hop on the forums online there's alot of people complaining about it being super noisy. Apparently you need to be in a pro studio environment to make that amazing mic come alive...Just wondering if perhaps you know of a hack or of sometype of equipment I can incorporate to deal with this noise problem? I really like the natural sound of my home and would really love to be able to use my R88 to capture it. Any suggestions would be really great!!! Thanks.
@HazelriggIndustries2 ай бұрын
Hi. The R88 is fairly sensitive to noises from LED lights and dimmers. When we record we typically have all the lights off in our studio. We only use a lamp or two that we know don't put out any noise. You also might try holding the R88 and moving it around to see what it reacts to in your recording space.
@lotusjace2 ай бұрын
@@HazelriggIndustries Thanks! I've changed a couple of things and going to test it out with a new interface as well. I even bought an emf meter just to check if the electrical sources are an issue. Will definitely try that, thanks for the advice.
@thatjazzshow3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Piano sounds great on the album. Question (not trying to be funny...): Do you ever put the lid back on the piano or do you just keep it in storage somewhere?
@LeeBlaske3 жыл бұрын
You kind of lost me at the "take the lid off" section. Pianos are designed to function with lids. It's always going to be a case-by-case situation based on the piano, the way the piano is mic'ed, and the type of sound you're going for. Taking the lid off might yield a nice sound in a certain situations, but something dry and lifeless in others. Ribbon mics pick up in a figure 8 pattern (picking up sound from the rear), so with the R88 that you're using, the position and angle you've chosen possibly would be picking up reflections off the lid that would be objectionable.
@BarryWarne3 жыл бұрын
Piano lids are mostly about projecting the sound into the audience in a hall - but there is no rule that says you have to record with the lid on the grand piano. Sometimes the lid creates sonic challenges.
@LeeBlaske3 жыл бұрын
@@BarryWarne Totally agree there is no rule, and taking the lid off is an option. You might like the warmer, more intimate sound in some situations. But, leaving the lid on can also give you a sound you might prefer. Leaving the lid on creates a feedback loop that can create a very nice, bright and reverberant sound. The sound reflecting off the lid re-energizes the strings (both the strings with dampers up, and all of the additional non-damped duplex strings). Try putting the sustain pedal down and shouting into the piano with and without the lid on. You'll notice a very different sound when the lid is not there to contain and re-direct the reflections back to the soundboard. You'll get more natural sustain and brightness with the lid on. They're not mostly about projecting the sound into a hall. If that were the case, why wouldn't artists always remove the lids on pianos played in living rooms and practice rooms?
@matthowe70572 жыл бұрын
From Glenn Gould to Elton John have made recordings with lid “off”. If you are working in a small room space & do not wish impart room reflections, you tend to work closer to the instrument. Problem is the when you need to get to within a working distance of 5 ft or so to the lid, or you want to get to within inches of the soundboard then the lid throws in odd cancellation issues & things can get too boomy or resonant. The team here are working with ribbon mics which pickup equal energy from the rear side, so the proximity of the lid is creating big issues if the leave it on (since the guys desire a focused sound for their productions. I’ve also found lid off works great for Jazz & pop projects but I’d not work so close up for classical work in a larger room space.
@irakliminaschvili26413 жыл бұрын
super, thanks for such detailed lesson video! I have a question. As I see, when recording the microphones stand on microphone stands. Is the microphone shok mounth necessary too?
@MikeG-js1jt2 жыл бұрын
What kind of Mic was that overhead....the mic you guys were speaking into?
@matthowe70572 жыл бұрын
It’s an AEA ku4 reproduction of the RCA Ku 3). All ribbon mics are mostly figure 8 but the exception is the Ku3/4 which has a milled pressure equilization chamber to assist it to become a cardioid pickup mic thus making it it more directional sounding. This was devised as a boom operators microphone for the film industries. The ku3 had a luminous white painted stripe on the rear so that the boom operator could pan & tilt the mic when it was extended high up on the darkened areas of studio sound stages. The Ku2 was its predecessor. The RCA 77dx has a crude variable plate to help assist creating a more directional pattern. The Ku4 has a much increased HF tone response, the 44Bx are less bright & to my ears warmer sounding.
@Tore_Lund3 жыл бұрын
So how do you record an upright? Strip it down and place the mike between the pianists knees?
@bencalhoun5 ай бұрын
Ha
@armpiano3 жыл бұрын
Nice and interesting content. Thanks a lot. Though I wonder about the position of the microphone because the R88 is a "Far-field ribbon mic designed to retain low end and top end at a distance", as describes by AEA. Don't you think by positioning above the strings, so near to the sound board the recording does not really benefit from the whole range of perspective and the breadth of this Blumlein mic ? No offense, it's really a naive question.
@miniatureface3 жыл бұрын
essentailly "Far-field ribbon mic designed to retain low end and top end at a distance" just means it has a lot of proximity effect and is tuned to have a flat or natural bass response outside of the proximity effect. you could always eq the low end down to reduce the proximity effect to get a sound that you like. it would be nice if AEA added a pad and two roll-off switches to their r88a, where the roll-off switches changes to bass response to be flat at different ranges.
@quietpersona3 жыл бұрын
What is that cool looking silver mic (a ribbon maybe?) that you're using for talking? Sounds great!
@matthowe70572 жыл бұрын
It’s an AEA ku4 reproduction of the RCA Ku 3). All ribbon mics are mostly figure 8 but the exception is the Ku3/4 which has a milled pressure equilization chamber to assist it to become a cardioid pickup mic thus making it it more directional sounding. This was devised as a boom operators microphone for the film industries. The ku3 had a luminous white painted stripe on the rear so that the boom operator could pan & tilt the mic when it was extended high up on the darkened areas of studio sound stages. The Ku2 was its predecessor. The RCA 77dx has a crude variable plate to help assist creating a more directional pattern. The Ku4 has a much increased HF tone response, the 44Bx are less bright & to my ears warmer sounding.
@quietpersona2 жыл бұрын
@@matthowe7057 Wow thanks for all the info
@albertobellavia3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your video , very good . Please , could you tell me which Are the best mic for recording grand piano ? I have Rode NT 2000 , Apogee 76 elements , mic - pre Neve Amek 9098 system. I have Yamaha C5 grand Piano . Thank you in advance
@stepheebee3 жыл бұрын
He mentioned using this mic www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R88--aea-r88 I'm looking for one or two for mine and I see all kinds of different recommendations. I will probably get a stereo matched pair of AKG 414s or the new Austrian Audio OC818 because I mic a lot of different stuff so need something that's good on a lot of stuff. I've heard the new AKGs are very bright, and the C5 is a bright piano so that may not be right for you. It sounds to me like the OC818 handles the high end a little smoother, at least from looking around online. There is also a discontinued AKG 414 B-ULS which are on the used market and are a little darker. All pianos are different and mics are different and rooms are different so it's tough to tell. I've heard small diaphragm condensers are good if you want to pick up less room noise, like the Neumann km184.
@KingGrio3 жыл бұрын
YOU NEED TO TAKE THE LID OFF THE PIANO When's the t-shirt coming out with a picture of a piano without a lid on it ?
@urizakay4654 жыл бұрын
Fun video - but no sound example? Now I have to go to another source to sample the result of the whole video ??.... am I missing something here?
@HazelriggIndustries4 жыл бұрын
Sound examples will be up shortly! Thanks for asking.
@FlorianScharnofske4 жыл бұрын
@@HazelriggIndustries Thanks for the great video. Sound samples would be great. Somehow your links are not working at the moment.
@HazelriggIndustries4 жыл бұрын
@@FlorianScharnofske Thanks for letting us know! We'll get the file back up soon.
@Raynozal3 жыл бұрын
Loved 4:23-4:30 YOU NEED TO TAKE THE LID OFF THE PIANO
@stevesmith14932 жыл бұрын
Take the lid off!
@joslinnick3 жыл бұрын
FYI, your site give me a privacy warning when I try to visit it.
@paulmeeldijk55026 ай бұрын
Try mics under the piano….. be aware of pedal noise.