How to set crossover filters in the field when the speakers are already in the air

Рет қаралды 11,867

3 жыл бұрын

To set a HPF for a main+sub alignment you need to pick somewhere to start. In this example I start with an overlap target of 2 octaves. From there you could look at what filter options hit the target.
2nd order @102Hz
3rd order @75Hz
4th order @61Hz
5th order @55Hz
6th order @51Hz
7th order @50Hz
8th order @47Hz
Then you could look at each of those results on the phase graph and find the best match. But, once you start to look at the phase graph you realize that there were a bunch of slopes that worked for the magnitude result, but really only one or two that work for the phase. This is assuming you want a result with minimum delay. Otherwise, if you don't mind more delay, you can have 100 other options.
So instead, maybe you start out by looking at the phase graph to find a filter that produces similar phase slopes. From there you'll still need to adjust the cutoff frequency to hit your target overlap, then finish the alignment with delay and polarity (or APF, whatever), but it seems like a faster way to get into the ballpark.
Covered in depth in Phase Alignment Science Academy: www.sounddesignlive.com/phase...
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I love to geek out about the physics of sound. This channel focuses on the growing opportunity for live sound engineers to improve their confidence and consistency through the understanding of the principles of sound system design and optimization. My goal is to make this channel upfront and honest about my success and failure, so you can learn from both.
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Пікірлер: 27

@halrichard1969 Жыл бұрын

Just slightly above my level of understanding for tuning so it was a very educational video for me. Kind of a leg up in understanding. Thank You. I will save this video for reference in my future efforts.

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Glad it helped!

@SunilKaranjikar 3 жыл бұрын

Nice one Nathan !

@harerton 3 жыл бұрын

I´ve been messing around with the sound system alignment in my church for a while. So I have been watching all your content, I´ve read McCarthy´s book, your book, and other good stuff on the internet. But nothing beats real world examples. Thanks for sharing this info.

@nathanlively 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Harerton! What's going on with the system at your church?

@sal9211 2 жыл бұрын

Nice one, Nathan.

@djbarxxx1000 11 ай бұрын

really nice! thanks alot!!

@akusbass 2 жыл бұрын

Master class! Thanks a lot for share this!

@nathanlively 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@rajivfernando7200 3 жыл бұрын

This is really good. Thank you.

@nathanlively 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you like it!

@buraklatr4961 3 жыл бұрын

Good work🙏🏻 thank you Nathan

@nathanlively 3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

@mashzmash 3 жыл бұрын

I'm tying to wrap my head around the notion of measuring each speaker independently, equidistant from each one, when these locations aren't where the listeners will be, and not where we're interested in the interactions between the two. Is this like, a theoretical starting point for alignment as if the two speakers are at the same point in space, and do you then attempt to follow it up with mic placements at listening locations?

@nathanlively 3 жыл бұрын

You got it. Ideally, we would have put both speakers on the ground next to each other or on tall stands, but they were already in place. It wasn't an install, just an upgrade to the DSP. This done in order to get high SNR actionable data, since measuring out into the room can often make the trace go FUBAR. > do you then attempt to follow it up with mic placements at listening locations? Yes, please see this article: www.sounddesignlive.com/can-you-remove-reflections-from-live-measurements-for-more-accurate-alignments/

@AlexVidrov Жыл бұрын

Amazing video as always. What is the software that you’re using for simulation?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Thanks Alexandr! Looks like Crosslite

@kyle_neuron 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting video as always! I know it was a quick job and as always ‘pick your battles’ but next time you’re trying unmatched filter types & slopes, move the mic out into the room and verify the results as you get farther away… even if you’re not looking at phase out there due to reflections, you should be able to spot fluctuations in the magnitude. I’m also curious on your logic for the mic positions? 1.2m from the grille on each box as the crow flies makes sense, but if the mic location isn’t coincident for both traces, I’d personally want to verify it again after fiddling at a coincident location on the audience plane. After all, that’s where people listen and our ears aren’t microphones 👂 🎙… although on that note did you see the webinar with 606, Jamie Anderson and Merlijn? I’m tempted to mock up a dummy head of sorts for binaural alignment verification but it’s gonna be a long ways off give the number of projects I always have! You seem to be a big fan of Crosslite+ lately… please stop making me crave yet another analysis tool! I already have SMAART, SysTune, EASERA, RoomCapture, RiTA and REW 😅

@nathanlively 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Kyle! > move the mic out into the room and verify the result I did! :) I just didn't talk about it in the video. Please see this article: www.sounddesignlive.com/can-you-remove-reflections-from-live-measurements-for-more-accurate-alignments/ > I’m also curious on your logic for the mic positions? None. Just speed. With more time I suppose I would start at 3x the baffle diagonal and move closer until there was actionable data, but in this case we just put a mic up there, measured the distance and matched the distance with the sub. > did you see the webinar with 606, Jamie Anderson and Merlijn? Yes, great stuff. > mock up a dummy head Do it! > please stop making me crave yet another analysis tool! I know, right?! Too many tools.

@livemixpriyan 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Nathan, Again Good Stuff!!! Thanks a lot. What is this Tool? This doesent look like Smaart right? The Second Question ist very basic level question. because i do not have an educational background in Sound Engineering. (Just my hobby this is :-) ) How Come that you said the summation on the Cross over Point should be in 6 db bei same phase? I have hear adding 2 Waves with same amplitude cause 3 dB summation in apmlitude. Which one is correct? Thanks in Advance

@nathanlively 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Priyan, good to hear from you. That's Crosslite. It's another audio analyzer from Brazil. Great for playing with filters. > summation on the Cross over Point should be in 6 db bei same phase? I can tell you that uncorrelated summation is +3dB and correlated is +6dB, but it will make the most sense if you measure it yourself. You don't even need an audio analyzer. You could just insert some correlated signal on two tracks in time and watch it sum and then the same for some uncorrelated. You might use two copies of a sine tone since it's easy to measure and then two different pink noise files.

@livemixpriyan 3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Thanks a lot Nathan

@pmlaaudio468 3 ай бұрын

What does the C mean in subaligner when you look at the result plot? …also Aligning Speakers that are phase compatible from the same manufacturer… could you recommend a video to watch on that

@nathanlively Ай бұрын

C = center. It's the geometric average between the start and end of the crossover region. > could you recommend a video to watch on that I would consult the manufacturer on that.