How to Size Your Solar Panel System - Planning Your DIY Solar Array Part 1
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Күн бұрынThis is part one in a short series on planning your solar array. Explanation on how to size your solar panel system would be good to follow for your DIY array or to confirm the proposal a company is making to you is valid. Find More information for this project and others on my website: projectswithdave.com
Here is a link to the work sheet mentioned in the video: drive.google.com/file/d/1pbkr...
Here is a link to estimate your array production: pvwatts.nrel.gov/
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Check out my other projects: projectswithdave.com/#projects
Recommended sources for Bifacial and Discounted Solar Panels: projectswithdave.com/solar-pa...
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Learn how to do your own DIY Solar System: projectswithdave.com/#edu-video
Sources for LiFePO4 batteries: projectswithdave.com/batteries/
Inverter Solutions: projectswithdave.com/inverters/
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For great prices on used and clearance solar panels use SanTan Solar: www.santansolar.com/product-c...
For large orders and pallet pricing from SanTan, contact Alex (480-360-6203; or alexanderson@santansolar.com ) and mention EverydayDave for 5% off.
Best Value Source For Solar Panels and Batteries - Signature Solar: signaturesolar.com/shop-all/s...
Quality & Service Source for Batteries and Inverters- Current Connected: www.currentconnected.com/?ref...
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Or, Try Energy Sage - It's free: www.energysage.com/p/everyday...
I used Energy Sage to research solar and receive multiple competing quotes for my install.
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Time Stamps:
00:00 Intro
00:58 Grid Tie VS Off Grid
04:34 Estimating Your Power Consumption
05:58 Planning Your Power Production
08:43 Sizing Solar Panel System to Achieve Your Production Target
10:56 Using the Production Estimate Excel Sheet
13:50 Conclusion
Disclaimers:
This video is for information purposes only, and does not constitute professional advice. Solar systems can and do involve dangerous electrical connections. If you do not have experience with electrical wiring, please seek professional support.
Affiliate information and disclaimers:
Links in description may be affiliate links, we may get paid if you purchase something through one of these links. This helps out our channel at no extra cost to you. Thank You!
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@jonzuber7193 10 ай бұрын
Very comprehensive video, well done. Thank you for taking the time putting together this very informative detailed video series.
@ProjectsWithDave 10 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@jimc3891 2 жыл бұрын
Year old video, great job! Clear, concise, information heavy presentation. Have started to view your other videos. Excellent and easily understood by my brain. It’s almost as if you have taken the wisdom from “Elements of Style” for writing by Strunk & White and applied them to video creation.
@Mysticsimon7399 Жыл бұрын
I love your setup. I'm in the process of building one like your system.
@SEANRMZ Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I am going through the start up phase, selecting inverter, panels and solar size. Here in Quebec our summers are hot, and winters are very cold so my consumption is double. Also I can put a ground instal so it would need to be on roof and dont want to look like a space center. So I will choose the right solar sizing
@Michel.Samaha 2 жыл бұрын
Very comprehensive. Thank you for sharing.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@manojkumar-mn8hn 2 жыл бұрын
amaaaaazing videos.... very very useful information . thanks a bunch!!! please keep up the great work....
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, will do!
@markrunion1769 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. Very informative.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@chrismaxny4066 Жыл бұрын
We have a similar setup: a 5 ton Geothermal System and a 16K grid tied ground mounted Solar System and we just got an electric car. Thanks for the worksheet and in our case we stand to save $5778 a year! The payback is 5.34 years. Even though the video is 2 years old the information is still relevant.
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Nice! I'm glad it was helpful. 5 years is a great payback time period. With more and more electric vehicles coming on line, it's going to make sense to have bigger systems. That's an easy place to dump extra power in the summer.
@chrismaxny4066 Жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDaveOur power company reads the meter every two months and it's a kWh for kWh exchange rate though they don't pay for any excess. So basically if we have excess it's applied to the next bill. Our electric rate is .281/kWh and there is only a delivery and supply charge. If we don't import any power there is a $19.95 fee for that month.
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Wow! At $0.281/kWh it's pretty easy to justify solar. My base fee is $40 even if I don't use any power, but my rate is only $0.14/kWh.
@carolinegao3425 Жыл бұрын
Nice explaination
@adakris7371 10 ай бұрын
Great video and learn a lot from that.
@ProjectsWithDave 10 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Watch next Part 2 - Roof VS Ground Solar Panel Systems - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rZOZhsJpyp3SZmQ.html Find More information for this project and others on my website: projectswithdave.com Other Helpful Solar Videos: Super Cheap Solar Panel Review: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9tknKqpp87Vqqc.html Full Solar System Install: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ld5xadSA3NS9koE.html Check out the first year performance results here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eMekh8iE1paZook.html See the total system cost here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hrSEgptkq9zFfGg.html And How to size your solar system here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qMh2ob2ipparc30.html 4 Things to Know About Solar in the Snow: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rL9jg9iX37a5nn0.html How to Get A Permit For Your Solar System: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n9OZeLx1rbKrZHU.html How to Crimp MC4 Connectors: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pa5jf9SF2pqmaHk.html 3 Solar Panel Wiring Issues Answered: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n52me6h5p5nFXYE.html Net Metering Explained With Actual Data: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f92FfpSVs7CXnmw.html
@artemas33 2 жыл бұрын
GREAT VIDEO! If you are not going off grid. Otherwise if your going off grid this isn’t the video for you. The Excel spreadsheet tho is great.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, off grid is a completely different analysis.
@philippserrin8268 3 жыл бұрын
Three excellent videos. Very well done. Although a system 1.5 or 2.0 times as large as what you installed would not provide as high of a rate of return on investment, the question to ask is what the incremental return is on the incremental investment. I suspect that this return (while not as high as you are currently getting) may still be sufficiently high enough to justify an investment in a bigger system
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
You are right, I'm sure a larger system would not be hard to justify, however, this was an experiment for me. I was also trying to minimize the initial total capital outlay as much as possible.
@gregwilcox1696 3 жыл бұрын
great video
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@electricwhirl5175 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the awesome videos and sharing the stuff. I would mention that you can create a hybrid system with small batteries, so you just calculate the energy usage for constant things (e.g., background stuff running 24x7 like routers, computer, fridge etc) and size the battery based to cover that. In this case the battery would be like 5-10% of off-grid system. Also if you have off-peak tariffs, then you can top up battery at night using cheap tariff in winter or after cloudy days. But for the beginning your variant is the best and easiest, also pay off quite fast. Off grid systems and battery are bad, because when they pay off (e.g,, 7-10years) you need to invest in new batteries again, so all your savings are gone ...
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback!
@90kevin20 2 жыл бұрын
They last 25 plus....
@electricwhirl5175 2 жыл бұрын
@@90kevin20 which batteries last 25 years? (I'm not talking about solar panels which some call solar batteries, but about lead-acid or li-ion etc.)
@sprockkets 2 жыл бұрын
@@electricwhirl5175 I'm not sure they last 25 years but lithium iron phosphate will tolerate more than 10,000 charge cycles vs normal ones with 1000 to 3000.
@shandor2522 2 жыл бұрын
Electric Whirl: Pnone companies have giant lead acid batteries that last decades, to back up landlines. They last because they’re not getting their life shaken out like car batteries. Also lasting decades are flow batteries which aren’t fire hazards and aren’t picky about charging characteristics-I’m not saying they’re cheap yet! Finally, there are more brands of flywheel electricity storage than I thought, and they last decades as well. The key to acceptance of these better storage systems is mass production. It’s hard to find investors willing to sacrifice capital for the long-term payoff. Government will never do it, but a really smart, freedom-minded cooperative of citizens might be persuaded. One precedent is how North Dakota’s electric coops backed by farmers funded the state’s electrification back in the day, when commercial power companies wouldn’t.
@stulishman 8 ай бұрын
wow 24MWh usage per year and i am considered a high usage at 7.5MWh per year in the UK. :) Thanks for the video very useful
@ProjectsWithDave 8 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@shandor2522 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the clarity! One quibble is that you wouldn’t need a battery that makes half the month’s electricity, unless darkness lasts two weeks at a time! Every day there’s sunshine in some amount, so that’s the measure to count on. Denver Colorado gets 300 days of sunshine even if winters can be cold. Another matter not addressed in comments or the video is that payback isn’t always the goal-freedom is. These days, air conditioning and even cooking & heating with gas are under political fire.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
You have a good point, to be fair, optimal battery size will be different for everyone. Battery capacity heavily depends on the climate in your location, your consumption pattern, and the size of your array. My comment was based on a brief look at some of my worst case months for battery backup assuming keeping my current array. In those cases I was overproducing for the first half of the month and then underproducing for the second half of the month. To take full advantage of all production I would need to save the energy produced over the first half of the month to be used later. However, to your point if the array is sufficiently oversized that would not be necessary. There is a balance somewhere between oversizing the array and minimizing the size of the battery. I plan to do some further detailed analysis on where that balance point would be for my system in the future. Thanks!
@TheEmbrio 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Glad I could help!
@CSGATI 2 жыл бұрын
I made mine to keep me out of tier 2 it works for me.
@romanykemp9042 3 жыл бұрын
My co-op - Union Power - in North Carolina - must have similar fees as your does. They told me Friday (when I ask) that they charge $0.10/KWH - but on my January bill they don't break it down - they just show "Energy Charges" - for me for that month it was $143.84 for 1137 KWH.. If you divide that number by KWH you get $0.1265/KWH - so some other fee is in there. If you multiply the KWH consumed by what they say they charge ($0.10) the dollar amount is almost exactly $30 lower - so that additional $30 difference is probably a transmission fee. I looked at the July bill - if you did the same math you also get that $30 figure....it is essentially a grid connection fee - that is always there. I like your approach about coming up with a size estimate to minimize generating a surplus. In your bar graph it looked like you never produced a surplus (when you average things out over a month) - though you came close in September and October. I plugged in a 9KW number the first time - and had 5 months where I had a surplus. I'll try 8KW and see where that gets me....
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you are taking the time to investigate your actual situation. Every utility is different, and the profitability can very drastically. If you ask them, they should be able to give you a breakdown of the base service fee, and the production, transmission, and distribution rates. In my experience co-op's are usually easier to get information from, you are a part owner in the company.
@guywhoknows 2 жыл бұрын
There is a out 2,840 hours of sun light per year. 12000/spa. Is 4.84kwh array. So if you had a tracker that was around 5 kWh then you should meet your target.
@pstoneking3418 2 жыл бұрын
Since you produce more power during the winter months you could use some of that power to heat your home during the winter months. Any time you over produce it would pay to use that excess power to heat water used in your home.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I currently under produce in the winter. My house is all electric and heated by geothermal.
@lorenzodelacruz1887 Жыл бұрын
I only use 500 kwh per mo. avg. You use a bunch more. I have nat gas for now until it banned? Who knows. Just thinking ahead. Thanks for another great show.
@williambutler3269 11 ай бұрын
Will this software do the same for a 2 mw farm with dc fast charging ev stations beginning with two in a very rural area?
@jstaffordii 3 жыл бұрын
Thank goodness my utility only has a $13/month connection fee and does the net meter washout annually. We are expecting a $80 washout check and we were net zero for the first year on 9.25 Kwp. I oversized by 20% based on NOCT vs annual usage so the system will stay net zero for the life cycle of 25 years even with panel degradation . Payback is still 6.6 years.
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Wow! That's an amazing setup with your utility, makes a net zero plan much more affordable.
@typxxilps Жыл бұрын
quite cheap kWh and therefor 24.000 kWh can be used cause imagine you would have to pay 35 or even 40 Cent instead of 10 cent your consumption would go down a lot and any device would be very efficient. good video you might check also pvgis which provides data for the whole world. That simulation is then able to add your local shadow line (based on the obstacles on the horizon that will cause shadows over the day and year) you can measure on your own cause usually some shadow will appear and the shadowline caused by building or trees or terrain (terrain will be detected automatically) You will get far better results even though your systems seems to be free of shadows.
@veikosinivee5397 2 жыл бұрын
very nice explanation. Perhaps consider also maintaining an array of batteries.True they cost extra, but they allowe you to consume the electricity that you have proudced before sending it to th grid. This is more effectice as you mentioned that utility charges 11 cents/kwh but pays you only 4 cents/kwh for electricity you produced. Second idea is to use batteries in winter to accumulate to more cheaper nightly electricity rate and then consume it in the morning before starting to pull energy from the grid
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
The grid acts like a month long battery. That is way more capacity than any battery I could purchase. Adding a battery would help in a power outage, but have no affect on the payback of the system. You can see that analysis here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f92FfpSVs7CXnmw.html
@veikosinivee5397 2 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave Hi!, Thanks for your reply. I don't intend to design an off-grid system but an on-grid system however with batteries as well. The point is that in the wintertime panels don't produce much anything but the price difference between nightly and daily electricity is almost 100%. So the idea is to charget the batteries during the night and consume this energy during day when electricity from grid is much more expensive. Offcourse I hope that panels produce a lot of energy during the summer that I would be sending back to the grid in order to earn some money that would offset the higher consumption during winter. Even here batteries might be useful. You pointed out in your video that you get electricity from grid for 0.11 USD/kWh but grid pays you only 0.04 USD/kWh. So it might make sense to store the energy you created and use it yourself before selling to grid
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I essentially get $0.11/kWh for daily overage since I only pay the net at the end of the month. It is only over production for the month as a whole that is at the lower $0.04/kWh.
@davidwatson1923 2 жыл бұрын
I cannot find the excel spreadsheet. Nice video.
@battistuzzijohn Жыл бұрын
Hi... love your videos. Wanted help sizeing a small pv setup with battery for my intex pool. It has a 750w pump and a 125w clorene generator. Both have to run 8 hours a day. The only reason for the battery would be to guarantee a constant power supply to the chlorine generator or else it resets the programming.
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Does it only need to work on sunny days, or also on cloudy days? That will make a significant difference in the battery and array sizing. Are you drawing 875W continuously for 8 hours?
@savannahrei8674 2 жыл бұрын
Great videos I am learning so much from these. Thank you! Is there a calculator that estimates system loss based upon voltage and distance to array? I live in the mountains and would have to go 400-500 yards to get to a south facing open spot.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I have been working on a video to help determine the best solution for the conductors running from the array to your house, but it isn't finished yet. There are many calculators online to help you size your conductors (such as this one: www.southwire.com/calculator-vdrop ). The higher the voltage the smaller the conductors can be. However 500 yards is a very long distance, you would probably need a 4 AWG conductor for that run (assuming 400VDC at 10A) which would be cost prohibitive.
@savannahrei8674 2 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave I meant to say feet, not yards, but still, a pretty good little hike down into the pasture
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Well, that's a big difference! A 500ft run, assuming 400VDC at 10A, could be done with a 10AWG conductor, that brings you back into the realm of realistic. : )
@savannahrei8674 2 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave 400VDC is that the highest practical voltage to use or is that a code limit thing?
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
If you are using a string inverter, many will go much higher. I would use an inverter that can handle at least 600VDC on the input and then string your panels to get as close to that as possible. I used 400VDC because that is the voltage SolarEdge optimizers hold the system to and it is a good minimum to design around for distance runs.
@barrthom603 2 жыл бұрын
Great channel! Do you have much experience with doing solar setups for Michigan residents? Looks like Michigan averages around 4 hours of sunlight for the year? I need a system for 15kw...and to possibly future proof for an electric car or two. We are currently on NG furnace, water heater, and dryer.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Michigan is a little further north than I am so you would want a slightly more aggressive tilt on your panels. I would face them all the the South. Also, you should do some calculations on your electric car consumption, you may be surprised how much extra that will add. Also the technologies linking solar and EV's is changing rapidly. Check out my video on the topic here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i5iZn6tp3rXNZ3U.html
@shandor2522 2 жыл бұрын
Barr: Solar panels will be paid back much faster by charging the EV than by savings on house electrical costs. I only wish I could afford a Tesla! Cheaper brands will work, though.
@9111logic Жыл бұрын
Extremely interesting thank you, however, in this calculator, I do not seem to find an option for fixed azimuth (180º in my case) but with a variable tilt for different weeks/months ( 71º/28º) 🤔 or perhaps it is the "1-axis tracking"? But it is still asking for the tilt angle 🤔
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Run the calculator for the different angles you want to analyze and then select and combine the months from each run into one spreadsheet to get a combined result.
@rainerjahr579 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome videos- Did you ever think of buying a used inverter- I see they can be had for 1/3 the cost- also you mentioned the need for optimizers but everywhere I"ve seen says solaredge inverters have to have optimizers to work even if the string is all in the same direction or without any obstacles in it's way- any truth in that
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I would consider a used inverter if the price was right, but it would have to be a pretty big savings to build a system around it. The inverter technology is changing so quickly it may be worth it to buy new. As for the Solar Edge system, it is designed to only work with the optimizers. Part of the efficiency of the system is achieved by maintaining the DC voltage at 400V for the inverter.
@coziii.1829 2 жыл бұрын
If I over produce and I do It goes to my thermal heat bank I have them in winter I use it to heat my long driveway, my water , my greenhouse etc.
@rontuengel5849 Жыл бұрын
Lights lights lights add lights to your system!
@bigcfilms2414 2 жыл бұрын
Did you ever consider using the solar panels as the roof for a carport or shed. Would it be possible to seal the gap between the panels to create a water tight roof system.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I have considered that, it makes a lot of sense especially if you are installing used panels. There are people that have made solutions similar to your proposal. My initial concern is the management of thermal expansion of the panels. If someone knows the impact of thermal expansion on installing panels with no gaps, I would love to hear about it.
@shrujanamsyama9940 2 жыл бұрын
The problem with solar roofing is the gap between solar panels. There is very little one can do to seal it properly. Using any type of heat treatment like soldering or welding solar panels is a big safety risk and must be avoided. One can try using aluminium grooves but it does not make it economical nor completely leak proof. It is better to simply install an aluminium roof and then fit the solar panels on them.
@angrydragonslayer 2 жыл бұрын
@@shrujanamsyama9940 the designs i've seen are all slate roofs with the panels acting as slates
@glentaybow 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Dave I opened the work sheet link you provided, but it's listed as "view only". Do I need your specific permission to use the work sheets? I'm not spread sheet savvy. Thanks.
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
You just need to download it to edit it. Thanks
@roncaringal7332 Жыл бұрын
just wondering how were you able to compute for the 9.4kw SPV system that you installed
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
I used the PV Watts calculator I mention in the video.
@todamnbad 2 жыл бұрын
Do you do any one on one help? I am trying to do some figuring and keep getting stuck on a few things
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry, I don't have the time to do one on one help. If you post your question here, you may be able to get it answered.
@ivandugandzic8028 9 ай бұрын
Hello, first of all great content. I have 36kw of solar panels, ground installation. It must be limited on 23kw cause that will be max grid will accept. I 'm in dillema of choosing inverter between 25kw SMA or some 30 or 33kw Huawei. I'm closer with SMA cause they are more premium brand but i have concern about power. They do not offer anything between 25 and 50.
@ProjectsWithDave 9 ай бұрын
I don't have experience with the Huawei inverters, but I do know SMA is going to work well for you.
@pwrmx24 Жыл бұрын
Dave, the .10 Solar Energy Rate $/ kWh cell in your sheet is not clear. is this the utility rate?
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
This is the rate you pay for electricity.
@walterbrooks3539 2 жыл бұрын
I must have missed where you talk about sizing the array. You seem to have entered the size of your array (9.4) into that website before any other data. If you have your yearly usage, how do you come up with the array size? Eg Southern Ontario, 18000 kwh/year, annual net metering, $2500/yr total charges
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
The idea is to try different size arrays in the calculator using your address and the orientation of your array. When you find a size that meets your production target, you can design a system around that. Hope that helps!
@coziii.1829 2 жыл бұрын
I power 3 houses a barn 4-6 outcrop buildings My water pumps Barns Etc
@iss9875 2 жыл бұрын
So 9.4 kW system produces 12763 kWh per year you must live in exceptionally sunny location. May I know what state you are in? Must be north of USA as I saw snow on your panels. Also I used PV calculator for my area and noticed that if I choose premium panels or thin film panels with lower efficiency and lower temp/power loss coefficient then I produce more energy. That means that low coefficient is more important in some cases than maximum nominal efficiency
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I live in Ohio, not the most sunny place in the US. With all the analysis you do, convert everything into cost/watt. It doesn't matter if one panel is 10% more efficient if it cost 30% more.
@robnelsen 3 жыл бұрын
If your utility paid you the same as what they charge instead of the $0.04/kWh, would you size your system larger than 50%?
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
If they payed my what they charged me, I probably would have gone for 100%, assuming I could afford the capital expense.
@exploitthechildless1510 Жыл бұрын
I liked this video, but many users are not solely grid-tie or off-grid anymore with hybrid inverters. Many of your new videos are doing a hybrid setup. How would utilizing batteries and a hybrid inverter with grid tie inverters be sized. Also, what about adding EV into your system and barns/shed?
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
As I continue my testing with hybrid and off grid systems, I will work on new methods for calculating system sizes. I did already install EV charging. You can watch it here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i5iZn6tp3rXNZ3U.html
@leeackerson2579 3 жыл бұрын
Could you clarify something for me. You state your system cost is $9000, but the Unbound site says their 9KW system is almost $14K without the mechanical racking. Does the $9000 include the rack system and how much did you pay for that? So, the rebate you get reduces the $14000 plus the cost of the rack system down to $9000?
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
The short answer is, yes, my numbers include the racking system. Typically the package deal on Unbound Solar includes the racking for a roof attachment. When that cost is removed and the ground rack added back in, the difference is only about +$600. I plan to do a future video with the cost breakdown.
@kiptonm 3 жыл бұрын
So based on your numbers do you think you will add panels or are you happy where you are?
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
I think I will eventually add when the economics makes sense, but hit pretty close to the "sweet" spot economically, so I will stay put for now while things pay off.
@warrencarl9955 2 жыл бұрын
Greetings Dave, You do a great job with your videos, thank you. But, I am a little confused regarding the logic you used to size your system. If I recall it correctly you pay $0.11/KWH for power and your utility pays you $0.04/KWH for anything in excess of your power usage on a monthly basis. Ideally it seems that it would be best to generate as much power as you consume or perhaps a little more. By doing this you would not be purchasing any $0.11/KWH power from your utility and selling them very little or none of your $0.04/KWH excess power. Any time the utility is paying you $0.04/KWH for your power means you are not paying $0.11/KWH to the utility for their power. Is this reasonable logic for sizing a system? Thanks again for your information and guidance.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
It is all related to speed of payback. My current system almost never overproduces, but is net zero or close to net zero for abut 6 months, so that equipment will pay off quickly at $0.11/kWh. Lets just make a simplified example. If I installed $10,000 in equipment, it would earn about $1,500/year (with all of it's production working at the rate of $0.11/kWh on a production of 13,636kWh) and pay off in 6.7yr. If I doubled the system for another $10,000, that equipment would be overproducing for 6 months of the year (its production working at the rate of $0.4/kWh on 6,818 kWh) earning $272 and meeting production needs for 6 months (working at a rate of $0.11/kWh on 6,818 kWh) earning $750 for a total of $1,022/yr. It would take the $10,000 cost of the expansion 9.8yr to pay off. The point I was making in the video, is if you have net metering by the month like I do without carryover credits, and want to make the most conservative play for your investment than overproduce as little as possible. If your goal is to cover all your consumption and payback time isn't a concern, than making it bigger would make sense for you. Hope that helps.
@AutoTechElectronic 2 жыл бұрын
Dave, I agree. You are over analyzing the ROI aspect. I have a 18.09K system and my monthly bill ranges from $15 in the summer and $40 in the winter. My goal originally was to have my daily usage covered by the solar panels in the event the price of electricity increases to 20 cent or worst. My suggestion is add another 9k, you already have so much DIy knowledge and know about the lowest $$$ for your next system.
@WolvesHart79 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this...been playing around with the spreadsheet and solar just doesn't seem worth it. I used a quote I got from a company doing door to door soliciting...they quoted a 14kWh system (110% offset) for $70k! I thought it was a joke... I'm not sure if prices have skyrocketed in the last year but $5 per watt seems to be a complete waste of money. It would take 50+ years to pay off according to the chart! The combination of a due west facing roof, cheap energy bills, and the (apparently) crazy high cost of systems...its a big time no good for me. Regardless, I do appreciate your videos.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you were able to make use of my information to help you make an informed decision on what was being proposed. $70k is ridiculous for a 14kWh system, I think you made the right decision. If you live in the US or Canada there is a company called EnergyPal that will give you free advice and maybe give you some options that do make sense. You can connect with them here: energypal.com/everyday-dave
@welshe222 Жыл бұрын
$70k is crazy i hope you shopped around.. Many places give free quotes. I picked up a 6KW system for $6150 (£5400 since im british) came with a 10kw wall mounted battery, all the cables, panel inverters, ESS SMILE5 5000W Single Phase Hybrid Inverter, from a german company from zerohomebills, there is also deals on all the time for -20% off etc
@786otto 3 жыл бұрын
Shouldn't you get some sort of tax credit or utility incentive ? if so did you calculate that in total costs?
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I factored in the tax credit when calculating my returns.
@TBooneFisher6931 2 жыл бұрын
Tax credits are a bit misleading. Don't forget that you must have to the tax liability to begin with. For instance, if you are an independent contractor with an LLC, you must first pay the TOTAL amount to yourself from the LLC to create the liability ...... think about it. TANSTAAFL
@BenjaminfLopez 3 жыл бұрын
I have installed a 26 panel sym 320 watt per panel equals8320 watts. Cost 34,600 with interst$48600. My useage last mo.bill $73.60 solar credit was$53.35 so acual balance of bill was$20.25 is it worth it or not to be paying for 25 yrs at $121.99 what do you think?
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Sorry, Benjamin, that's not enough information to calculate the payback period. Do you have the expense vs income over a one year period? It will vary significantly over the year. It sounds like you have a 25year loan? A 25 year loan on $34,600 with a 2.875% interest rate has a total cost of $48,551 but the payment would be $162 not $121.99. Of course you need the average savings on your electric bill to be at least what your are spending on your loan payments, or it doesn't make sense as an investment. Taking 25years to pay of the system seems risky to me. I wouldn't want to go more than 10years. Just my opinion. Thanks.
@786otto 3 жыл бұрын
I think where I live you getting a kw credit that can be used later in low producing months.
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
That's very nice! It would allow you to have a larger array and still maximize your return on investment.
@786otto 3 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave I don't have one , My friend has think 10 kw array, and way it works you can make extra one month and use it next month ,and once a year is reset meaning they calculate all and if you have extra left you get very little for it or nothing , Thanks for replay , great video.
@kingarthurthe5th 3 жыл бұрын
@@786otto if anything, you have wiggle room to connect more electronics down the line. Or not have to worry too much about the degradation of the panels. -\(:/)/-
@786otto 3 жыл бұрын
@@kingarthurthe5th Yep, that how is done. Thanks for your reply.
@chrisrobey77 3 жыл бұрын
With grid tie and no batteries, you need to really know what your peak consumption is on an hourly basis so you don’t over produce. Luckily I have annual net metering, so it doesn’t effect me. I offset 100% in 2020 but I only consumed 43% as it was produced, the remainder was “sold” back and “reused” later resulting in a net of zero.
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Mine works the same way, just monthly. The hourly overproduction gets absorbed by the grid and "reused" by me averaged out over a month. Annual net metering is fantastic! I wish I had that. : )
@niekvandenberg205 11 ай бұрын
This panel can put out close to 100 watts kzfaq.infoUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
@majscrap2629 Жыл бұрын
So if I understand. Other than the overhead charges for power delivery, You are always buying power from the power company every month however much that is. You are merely supplementing with the solar system to keep your power bill down. Is that about it?
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Pretty much, except there are a couple months out of the year that I produce all or slightly more than what I use. I go into more detail on that part in this video on Net Metering: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f92FfpSVs7CXnmw.html
@viliamgajdos5917 2 жыл бұрын
And what about trying to cover 100% of consumption in the month of most solar production which is usually June? You wouldnt overproduce throughout the year then and you would save around 50% on your bills on average.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I think that would be a great place to target as well. There would be some over production in the spring and fall, but it would be small and only degrade the payback period slightly.
@chriscraven33 2 жыл бұрын
average house energy use is x, solar panels produce y, connected to power grid short is z
@Hambone556 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't hear anything about when your power goes out and the power company don't "let" you use your solar panels. First video I've watched so if you mentioned it in the next series my apologies sir. Great video though, very informative
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
You're correct. This system has no battery backup, I mention the reasoning in this video on net metering: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f92FfpSVs7CXnmw.html
@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369 2 жыл бұрын
HOWdy P-W-E-D, Sizing ... COOP ...
@coziii.1829 2 жыл бұрын
Off grid is a one time payment It’s not expensive if you fig out what you pay a month in electric for 20 years For me I would of payed 72,000 in electric bill. 300 a month for 20 years. I think I can buy 2 set up solar systems So I did .
@SPdesi1 Жыл бұрын
Very good video but what I want to know is why you didn't go for 100% or more offset to bring down new electric bill to almost nothing and of course there is a significant savings every month?
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
The equipment cost would be at least 3 or 4 times as much to save the remaining 40% of my yearly electric cost. It would far exceed my target payback period.
@SPdesi1 Жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave Thanks Dave for your 2 Cents which makes sense.
@alanmarkell9510 Жыл бұрын
How do I get the PRODUCTION ANALYSIS spreadsheet.
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
The link is in the description. Just download the .xls file and edit it on your local computer. Or you can get it from this link: drive.google.com/file/d/1pbkrexpzooKA3wIDZtH_6cI4dHyuE6_n/view?usp=sharing
@benjones8977 2 жыл бұрын
You don’t need a battery for two weeks, you need a battery for two or three days and then a gas generator to make up the difference. A much cheaper option long-term. I myself only have a battery for a day and a half and use a generator for those times when there’s not enough sun. Usually it’s just a couple of months out of the year! But my system is off grid, because if you’re connected to the grid and the grid goes down then you have no power at all. It’s better to have a transfer switch, when this happens.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
A battery/generator hybrid solution does significantly reduce the battery size needed. Is your generator sized for your whole load or does it just supplement the batteries when they get low?
@benjones8977 2 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave I didn’t buy the generator that I would buy now, knowing what I know. But at the time I just bought the simplest and not very high wattage generator I could get. It’s only 3100 watts, so it’s basically just for charging up the batteries.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
That's the value of the KZfaq community, you can learn from what others who when before you have done. : )
@basspig 2 жыл бұрын
Due to my shady area I only get about 10% of the rated power from solar panels so I need about 300 kilowatt worth of solar panels to provide me with a power to provide the 50 kilowatt-hours per day of energy usage.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! Seems like it would be hard for that system to pay for itself.
@OneTheAndOnlyOne 11 ай бұрын
Just for fun: I wish we had those utility prices in Europe (The Netherlands. I think our country is 1 of the most expensive countries in the world for energy (and fuel also). ! LoL!!! It costs about 10 times more over here.. The 24001kWh would cost you about 33,600 USD. But no one over here uses this much energy.. The everage household over here uses about 1800kWh A YEAR!(so less than you use in a month! But we have gas for heating) Over here even when you don't use any kWh you'll even pay about 1500 USD (Depending on how large your connection is, it can be cheaper if you have a small connection, for example 1 times 35Amps, but with your usage you need at least 3x35Amps(costs about 5 USD a day). And with taxes and all sorts of costs this will be around 1500USD for a year with ZERO use. Pretty insane and kinda interresting But the solar setup you have would cost about 2500 to 3000 USD so that's a lot cheaper over here. This is also a problem because many people have solar pannels now and the grid can't handle it, resulthing in negative energy prices(when it's a very sunny day) for those who have solar panels. So they have to pay for feeding energy back to the grid. But when the prices are negative you'll get paid for USING energy (again this is only for those who have solar panels), so I know people who just turn on everything, heating outside when it bloody hot outside, etc, and they get paid for doing so. (can get up to 8 or 10 cents per kWh)
@ProjectsWithDave 11 ай бұрын
Very interesting. When you start getting into variable rates and negative rates, you might be able to make sense of a smart battery system that can charge when the rates are negative and discharge when the rates are high.
@OneTheAndOnlyOne 11 ай бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave Yes indeed. That would mean you get paid for charging the battery system (pretty insane right!?) I think some smart people are getting this into Home Assistant. I think I read somehing about it a couple of weeks back. I don't know for how long these weird negative prices will last.. I need to get a big battery system ASAP!
@ProjectsWithDave 11 ай бұрын
Don't go too big. Make sure your payback period is short so you don't get stuck with a huge investment incase the rules change.
@Unstoppable12597 3 жыл бұрын
Can u sell energy to the power company
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, but I only get $0.04/kWh, not really worth it.
@tomaszwida 2 жыл бұрын
u use over 2000 kwh a month oh boy, I use about 300 does it make sense for me to go solar?
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
These systems are all scalable, just run the numbers and see if it works for you.
@jasonbroom7147 Жыл бұрын
This shows you used between 37 and 75 KWH of electricity, per day, during 2019. The average is around 29KWH per day, or around 10,000kwh per year. It looks like you are using about 2.5 times as much power as the average home? Did you perform an energy audit and attempt to reduce your consumption as part of this process? I live in a state where rates are low, like yours. I thought there was no net-metering, but it turns out my REMC does pay $.06/kwh. I'm trying to decide if I should build a system that just barely meets my critical loads, so there's a low cost of installation and very little concern with overproducing, or if I should build a system with 5-10kwh worth of battery. One thing you didn't mention in this particular video is if you build a grid-tied system and the power goes down, you probably won't be able to use the power from your panels, unless you have an approved cut-off/transfer switch? I think you cover that in a later video.
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
My house is all electric, and there are 5 people in my family. Lots of hot water laundry and cooking. I did just install an Emporia Vue ( amzn.to/41Jvcru ), so I will be doing more detailed analysis for the future on the consumption side. My system is paying for itself ahead of schedule. If I was doing it again from scratch, I would shoot for slightly overproducing for the two months closest to net-zero. Technically the payback is slightly longer, but I think it is a better overall balance considering panels slowly degrade over time and electricity usage keeps going up with things like electric cars etc.
@lancebenson8400 3 ай бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave Late to the party here, but great spreadsheet and analysis. I downloaded the spreadsheet and doubled the installation cost and Estimated Production kWh. Payback was the same, and you are giving a little electricity to the utility in September and October. Installation cost would probably not actually double for double the panel kWh (and prices have dropped a good bit--for panels if not for racking).
@unclefester6501 2 жыл бұрын
Your fixed costs are so high and extra inverter capacity is not that much so the marginal cost of additional capacity is low. I say go as large as the authorities will allow. The panels will degrade slowly over time and you will have extra capacity for electric cars. Plus the federal tax credit is going away. Go big.
@benjones8977 2 жыл бұрын
To me the power companies are more like banks, they’re not gonna give you much interest or in this case much per watt in benefit. And now I hear you’re being charged more because your on grid system with the panels? Sounds just like a banker! I opted to go off grid, because the benefits to being on grid are next to zero. Not only does my power company not pay much of anything, if your power goes down so does your benefits of your solar. I may have paid more in the long run, but I did it all myself. This saved me a heck of a lot of money! Although I had to get an electrician to do the final connection to the panel, because it was over my head. Being that it’s been only about a year now to see what the actual benefits are. I would say that at least seven months out of the year I’m doing great and totally off grid. The next five months or more of a challenge, with a majority of that running off grid during the day and on grid during the night. Being that I live in the Pacific Northwest, you have 12 hours or so without any light at all. This is why I have 9.6 kW of battery storage and have added another 5 kW recently. I also have 7.5 kW of solar panels. If the grid goes down I can run at least my refrigerator and freezer, some lights and during the day on my 120 appliances, and this is in the winter. There’s a lot of talk about grids going down for weeks or months in the coming years, so it was a no brainer for me to get off grid. I realize that I now need to concentrate on insulating my house better. This is for the winter months. I’m also looking at a small wood stove to augment my needs for keeping warm, which is what most of the energy I’m using in the winter. As I’m using gas to heat my house. And N gas prices are soaring in the US. If I do these two things, I shouldn’t need to increase my solar array at all.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Completely off grid as you have found is a significant challenge. I hope it works out for you.
@coyotiess 3 жыл бұрын
What happens if you elected to do a 60% system
@ProjectsWithDave 3 жыл бұрын
I would slightly over produce in September and October. That would slightly increase my payoff timeframe, because I would only get $0.04/kWh for the overage, but it would not be a big difference.
@thedronezone4924 2 жыл бұрын
Hi , I couldn't believe the numbers of yearly usage ! An average of 24.000Kwh/year or 2000Kwh/month ??? Here in Europe the average is 3500Kwh/year or 292Kwh/month, at a real-cost of 0.73€/Kw. Now I need to sit down and recover a bit...
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
Our house is all electric, heat, hot water, cooking, laundry, etc.
@davidgrieve7691 2 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave Yeah your usage is insane. My yearly usage is 10 MW and not only is my large family home all electric I have a Model S as our only car. I'd suggest adding energy monitoring to see where all your usage is coming from. In Australia we don't have net billing. You buy at retail (20c) and get a feed in tariff. For me its 5c. So I'm highly motivated to self consume.
@coziii.1829 11 ай бұрын
If the electric company is not paying me back with a check I’m going off grid It’s stupid that they just knock it off bill
@thewayidoit8895 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks but hard to understand as you seem to fade as you talk on. My case I have natural gas heat and no A/C. With a solar system, I'd want to upgrade to an electric heat and A/C so it would skew things greatly. I currently pay about $100/month electric bill so any solar is silly.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
I imagine it would be hard to justify solar if you have natural gas heat and no A/C, but at the same time you wouldn't need a very big system to meet your needs. The initial investment would be small.
@thewayidoit8895 2 жыл бұрын
@@ProjectsWithDave I'm retiring next year at 60. I'm getting some cash and think this would be a great investment. Guess my power company does annual reconciliation.
Жыл бұрын
wow, the consumption in the US homes its exorbitant
@pwrmx24 Жыл бұрын
If everyone uses solar we'll all be over producing at the same times.....then there's no incentive for the power company to "bank" kwhr and give that credit back later.
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Yes, that is starting to happen in some places. On solution that power companies are starting to invest in is massive battery banks for managing peak demand fluctuations.
@Dave_the_Dave 10 ай бұрын
Dang, I thought we used a lot of power and we're at about 650 kWh per month.
@ProjectsWithDave 10 ай бұрын
Power consumption and available production varies dramatically around the world. That's why every situation requires some analysis, there is no "one size fits all" for solar.
@N54God666 2 ай бұрын
holy crap is that your actual kW use? you really need to look at a significant life change. my 3200sqft house only uses 800-1100kW, including winter months. no solar yet and my electricity bill is only $50-$80 max. my family size is 5
@ProjectsWithDave 2 ай бұрын
Nice, that will help you minimize the size and cost of your solar system.
@rontuengel5849 Жыл бұрын
I don’t see any lights? Just add lights for 24 hour power supply 365! Wind power just add a electric leaf blower! Hydro power just pump the water back into the lake!
@greg_takacs 2 жыл бұрын
This is all simple math that makes sense but your ROI of 14.7% is flawed and possibly misleading. The thing you didn't calculate into the math is depreciation and maintenance, both of which can be significant numbers. I'm also concerned with the liquidity of the asset, meaning a CD is relatively liquid while a solar installation is as illiquid as assets can get. Having said that with the way utility rates are climbing solar might still make sense. The other benefit is the intangible value of having peace of mind and a reasonable backup should the grid face problems which might be hard to put a price on.
@ProjectsWithDave 2 жыл бұрын
You're right, there are lots of factors that are not considered for the sake of time. My goal here was to show the magnitude of the possible return on investment is great enough to make it worth considering. Of course each situation is going to be a little different, some will have much higher utility prices and see significant utility price increases in the future making the return much greater. Others will have steady prices and may have some maintenance issues reducing their return. As far as CD's go, I'm not saying you should consider replacing CD's with solar installations, but rather it may make sense as a portion of a diversified portfolio of investments. Thanks for your input!
@PapaPiggie Жыл бұрын
I plugged in my array into the calculator and it was dead on my actual production
@ProjectsWithDave Жыл бұрын
Nice! That's why I recommend that site, I have found it to be very close to my actual production.
@sticks0012 Жыл бұрын
Today we talked about how your utility companies will screw you no matter what.
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