Great to hear. If you haven't already seen it, my other video on the printing process might also be useful kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7yXgtyfztrRcmw.html

Great to hear. I love to hear when I have helped someone.

You're very welcome! It's great to hear that I've helped.

Thanks, will do!

Glad it was helpful!

Thank you very much.

Thanks. It's great to hear you found it helpful.

Thank you. It does work now in the latest LR CC but it's not the way that it used to work. At least it's consistent now and I can work with that.

Thank you

Good question and I was planning to do another video about that. It comes down to making adjustments and using the Rendering Intent options. Some images look fine even when printed with OOG colours. If they don't, you need to make tweaks to the contrast, saturation and hue. Usually, it's a trade-off. I cover how to do this in depth in my books "Perfect Prints Every Time" and "Essential Colour Management" (both on Amazon). Sorry to advertise books in an answer but there's a lot of information and techniques to cover. A lot more than I can cover with a few videos.

Glad it was helpful! Thank you

I'm pleased this helped and thanks for letting know about Simulate Paper and Ink working for you. It's not working on any of my Mac's or my PC. BUT, I think I have traced the problem. I'm just doing a little more research first.

Hi Dave. The process is identical but you will need the printing company's profile. A lot of companies now have these on their website to download (the subject of a future video). If they don't, be sure to email them. Some companies also like to know you have soft proofed the image when you make an order so be sure to read their instructions carefully. I have a few metal prints from a company called White Wall. I did all the soft proofing myself and the results were excellent.

Thank you

Great to hear you found it useful.

Thank you. That's much appreciated.

Thank you. Soft Proofing in Classic 11.5 is still the same as far as I can see.

You're very welcome!

You are welcome!

Thanks David. Pleased you like it.

Thank you

Thank you. I'm pleased to hear it's helped you.

Thank you, but have you seen my perfect prints video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7yXgtyfztrRcmw.html

@@RobinWhalley Thank you so much, I will watch it.

@@blackfootslave No problem.

I'm not sure where you would find the Costco profiles as I don;t know what paper they use. I would suggest contacting them via their website.

It's good that you're satisfied. I can imagine a few things that might allow this to work for you for example papers like Ilford Gold Fibre are pretty close to the image without any soft proofing adjustment. Most of the time, cotton rag papers need adjustment, at least on any of my printer and computer combinations. I wish I didn't need to bother as it would be a big time saver.

Thanks for adding the tips. And to answer your question, the soft proofing is exactly the same process if you are printing to a file and then sending that to a third party printer.

Hi John. Where can I find the box to tick or rather take away Auto Sync ? Thanks in advance :-) Great video from Robin this :-)

Thank you

Thanks

It's possible you're making a mistake but without sitting and watching you I wouldn't be able to identify it. It's also possible the profile you're using is wrong. Whilst this is unlikely, I've had it happen to me in the past where I downloaded generic profiles from websites. I also know some people have a similar problem to this and correct for it using the adjustments at the bottom of the printing panel (in the colour management settings section). I have another video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7yXgtyfztrRcmw.html) covering printing which may also help in case you are making a mistake.

You're welcome

Whilst it's not exported to a file you can see and open, it's still generated and written to the print system for output. I'm not sure how the different operating systems deal with it now but it used to be that there was a print spool where the data was written as a temp file before being cleaned up after the print (I'm going back some 20-30 years). I suspect something similar happens today but I gave up software development a long time ago.

I'm assuming you're in the Lightroom Print module. On the left of the screen you have the "Page Settup" button. When you click this you can select to use the printer to use. It should list all the printers installed to your computer. The other button is the "Print Settings" which allows you to configure your printer including the paper type. The final part to be aware of is the "Color Management" panel on the right of the screen (very bottom of the panels) where you can set either the printer to manage the colour of the print or use a paper profile (almost always the better option). It's a lengthy subject so I suggest watching my video "How to Make Perfect Prints Every Time" (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7yXgtyfztrRcmw.html). Hope this helps.

It hasn't been rectified in that it doesn't work the way that it used to. Fortunately, it does now work consistently. Just be sure you don't have the gamut warnings on (paper and monitor) when you're soft proofing and it now works fine.

@@RobinWhalley Good point but, I will still soft proof in LightRoom 5.Cheers

Glad it was helpful! Thank you.

Found my own answer I think. Instead of using the R/A view, I needed the Y/Y view or before and after. That works with soft proofing. Thanks again for a great explanation and solution to my color issues.

Thanks. Sorry I couldn't respoind sooner but I was away travelling.

@@normanrehme3836 just had this same issue. thanks for answering it!

You can soft proof any supported file format. The limitation with JPEG will be the editing quality if you need to make a lot of changes. JPEG is only an 8 bit file format so you may see problems like banding in areas of continious tone if you make strong adjustments.

First, be sure you’re viewing your print when it’s dry and in daylight. Electric lighting can affect how you perceive the print. Paper can play a part in this as well. Some papers have a slightly warm tone whilst others have a white or blue tone. We sometimes perceive the warmer tone papers as being darker prints. Keep in mind that a print will never look as bright as a screen. One emits light where the other is only reflecting it. Assuming you still have a problem, try resetting your Mac’s printing system. I wrote this article explaining lenscraft.co.uk/photo-editing-tutorials/mac-os-photo-printing-problem/. Assuming this doesn’t fix it, it may be that you are one of the unlucky people who struggle printing from Lightroom. Quite a few people report this issue with the prints being too dark and low in contrast. That’s why Adobe added the adjustment for both at the bottom of the Print section in the Print Module. Try increasing the brightness adjustment to midway and see if this makes an improvement. It will take a little trial and error but once you know how much to add, you can set this for every print. I hope you get this sorted out.

@@RobinWhalley Many thanks. This type of advice from an expert is so essential. Fotospeed emailed me a calibration JPEG. I just printed that -outside of lightroom just printing from the printing options direct from the print menu. Selecting my ICC profile - for that paper. Prints 95% as per what I see on the screen. Yet the photo I printed in lightroom is definitely darker and more 'saturated' then that seen on the same monitor screen. I think I will have to increase the exposure, etc and see what will work. So it will look brighter, etc on the screen soft proof. But hopefully, print close to that of the master copy. I am new to printing. I hope when I know the foibles of lightroom and my printer. These adjustments will become easier. At least your video and help gives me a good start point.

@@Forthejoyofphotography I would still try my suggestions but I am wondering if your calibration print wasn't correct. The last one I created with Fotospeed (a couple of months ago) used Adobe Colour Print Utility to make the calibration print. This ensures there isn't anything interfering with the print. You can find the print utility on this page in the printer profiles section. www.fotospeed.com/TechnicalSupport.asp I would download and install this and also download and read the profiling pack again. It may be worth contacting them again to see if they agree there could be a problem.

I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand the question. Could you expand a little and I will try to answer. Thank you.

:-) The pcitures seems to be not plane on the background, they have a shadow when looking at them at the development modul. In LR CC there isn't a shadow around the pictures

Thanks for clarifying. I hadn't paid any attention to the shadow before. At the time I recorded the video in Feb 2018, it was the latest release of Lightroom Classic CC on the PC with default interface settings. I checked my Mac and PC just now and neither have the shadow in the Develop module now. 🤔

ok...thank you

Pleased to hear you liked the video. Reading your problem I'm struggling to understand it and have a couple of questions: 1) Where are you seeing the problem with the Preview? Is this in Lightroom when you're soft proofing or something else? 2) Why are you using an XPS driver for printing? I thought this was the old Microsoft document layout standard that's their version of PDF. I would have to guess that it's a driver compatibility problem between the XPS driver and Lightroom (if I'm understanding your description properly). If it is a problem with Lightroom, I doubt you will manage to gain support for Lightroom 5 now. Are you seeing the lines in Lightroom prints?

Thanks for a swift reply, the lines are only on the preview of the jpeg after soft proofing and when set up to print in lightroom . I do not know why I am using the XPS driver because it seems to make no difference to the print, I was of the understanding that because it is 16 bit as opposed to 8 bit that it would be an improvement. So unless there are other reasons I will continue to use the original driver. I tend to agree with you about a compatibility problem. Once again many thanks for your time and if you can shed any more light on the problem I will be glad to receive your advice, now going to view some more of your videos. many thanks David

It's possible a 16-bit driver will offer a smoother tone transition than an 8-bit driver but I would test it. Try to use an image with a clear blue sky where the blue isn't uniform across the sky. Print a version with each driver and see if you can detect a difference or if the 8-bit driver creates any newton rings. Something else that occurred to me. If you're running Lightroom in Windows, have you tried launching it as the Administrator? Right click on the icon and select "Run as Administrator" from the menu. I'm interested to see if it creates any difference with the Preview (though I doubt it).

Once again thank you for your input, pardon me for not understanding but what are newton rings

No problem. It's an optical effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_rings) but you can also create them in your images where tones don't transition smoothly. Typically if you have an 8-bit image like a JPEG with a lot of blue sky and then apply processing, you will start to see bands of tone appear in the sky. This happens much more with the 8-bit image than a 16-bit image. Hope this helps.

In Feb 2018 when I recorded the video the Simpulate Print option wasn't working correctly in the version of Lightroom CC at that time. If you were to switch off the GPU Acceleration it would work correctly. In the last Pre CC version of Lightroom I had it worked correctly and this is the information in the video. Around 6 months after I made the video Adobe made another release of Lightroom CC which corrected the problems and it's been working correctly in Lightroom Classic CC ever since. I'm not sure about Lightroom CC but I suspect that also works. At the time I made the video Adobe were using the name Lightroom CC for what's now Lighroom Classic CC..

@@RobinWhalley Thank you for this helpful reply.

That’s because what can be displayed on a modern screen can’t be reproduced in print. There are always compromises and choices you will need to make.

That's correct. Adobe appears to have tweaked a few things since I made the video. The problem isn't really a problem now as it's working consistently providing you realise you can't use the gamut warning and Simulate Paper and Ink at the same time.

I htink you may be over complicating things here so I'll try to simplify some points in case it helps you/others: 1. The format you save the file in doesn't affect the colour space you can use. It's perfectly possible to have a JPEG file that uses the ProPhoto RGB colour space The colour space (sRGB, Adobe RGB, Pro Photo etc) determines the range of colours that can be in the image. The bigger the colour space the greater the range of colours or gamut it can reproduce. 3. Whilst a file can reproduce a wide range of colours based on the colour space used, a printer may not be able to reproduce that same colour range. A huge colour range like ProPhoto RGB can't be reproduced in print. The range of colours that can be printed depends on both the printer and paper combination. 4. Soft proofing does two things in the main. First it allows you to check if there are any colours in the image that can't be rerpoduced by the chosen printer and paper. This is done by seelcting the profile to use. Secondly it let's you see those problem or out of gamut colours and try to fix them. These are the adjustments you apply to the virtual copy image in Lightroom. 5. As you probably can't fix evey colour to bring it into rthe ange of the printer, you can choose how they are handled. That's where the rendering intent comes in. You can have Lightroom change just the problem colours to something the printer can deal with. Alternatively it can adjust all the colours in the image relative to the problem colours. 6. After making your changes to the virtual copy to have it look the way you want, either send it to a printer or send it to a JPEG file. You can then send that JPEG file to your print supplier.

​@@RobinWhalleyThank you Robin for your quick reply. My apologise to all I am a natural at overcomplicating things in my life and I very much appreciate your time and knowledge. It is good to be able to have a conversation with someone other than my self over these complex matters. After re reading my message I seem to have conflated two things in my haste to find knowledge. With the greatest of respect may I question a couple of points with in your reply. They are questions not criticisms. 1) You are not suggesting that I send pro photo RGB tagged files to a printers with out converting the image to a smaller colour space that their printer can reproduce. So I must convert all Pro Photo RGB images to a smaller colour space for print. Irrespective of the file type. So is this done before assigning the ICC profile or after adjustments with the ICC profile. 2) Out of gamut was a best guess way, Photoshop back in the 90s provided people a visual way that artist could view, the unprintable/non viewable Hues. (Bothe Photoshop and modern printers have evolved greatly since 1998 and its introduction). With This best guess gamut warning you could delicately adjust work to keep it as faithful as possible to the original. I believe that this method is legacy and was superseded by the more accuracy and modern ICC profiles. These profiles are specific to the printer and its relationship to the medium selected. So we should be adjusting the ICC rendered image and ignoring out of gamut witch is legacy and inaccurate. This is not a criticisms of any ones ideas or work flow I am just after knowledge. I am always happy with been proven wrong. If we use ICC and Gamut we are mistakenly combining two methods of image adjustment that should not be used together. 3) The rendering algorithms have been created to take the majority of the work out of this complicated process. If they seem to fail after combining the unique ICC profile with one of the 6 rendering intents within photoshop CC then it is time for the artist to tweak the final result by eye. This is how I believe it should be done. Thank you very much for your time I wish you well. Live lone and prosper.

To answer your questions: 1. When you export a soft proofed image from the Lightroom Print module as a JPEG you can set the colour space for the image. Depending on your Lab this is probably sRGB although some may ask for Adobe RGB. This takes care of the conversion for you. 2. The Gamut rnage still applies today. If you are editing in ProPhoto RGB (which you are inside Lightroom) it's a huge colour space and you are likely to create colours the printer and paper combination can;t reproduce. All the bespoke ICC profile for the paper does is allow you to see the results of reproducing the image colours using a specific printer and paper. You then edit the image to make the image colours as close to the original image as you can, taking into account the chosen rendering intent. The job of the rendering intent is to instruct the computer how to convert the out of gamut colours (that don't fit into the colour space of the printer) into something that can be reproduced. 3. Yes the rendering intents do the bulk of the conversion work but you should still tweak the image. The two go hand in hand. The rendering intents will change the colours and tones in the image to make them fit into the target colour space. That may or may not look good with the intended printer and paper. That's the role of soft proofing.

@@RobinWhalley Thankyou sir you have genuinely made my life better for taking the time to reply. I was one of the anoying children in school that Use to put there hands up in school to ask a question and as such spend time in the corridor. Have a great day.

@@RobinWhalleyI had a photo book made by a lab. I downloaded their ICC profile for my chosen paper and soft proofed them. I used the sRGB file exported from LrC as a 100% quality JPEG. I think that’s everything you recommended. Three observations: (a) There was very little difference between the original edit and the soft proof virtual copy BEFORE making any adjustments. (b) The most noticeable difference was the “out of gamut” warnings - especially obvious in shadow areas and greens of some foliage. (c) I tried to improve some images and didn’t alter others. Page turning through the book it’s impossible to tell which images were soft proofed and which were not. Your thoughts please? It seems that colour gamut is perhaps the biggest issue - but I’ve not found anyone giving advice on that. I’ve had lab prints and calendars printed without benefit of ICC profiles and soft proofing. I’ve always been happy with the results. Which leads me to the two thoughts: (1) Is soft proofing overrated? (2) Is soft proofing necessary?

It sounds like you are using the reference image option to compare the image rather than comparing the starting image with the adjustment. There are two sets of icons for making comparisons and you need to use the set on right.

@@RobinWhalley Thanks for getting back to me. Was in a rush and just made a large print already but I plan on making several anyway so they will look even better! Thanks again. I appreciate all you do.

@@sburgos9621 Thanks and good luck with your printing.

If the results are perfect then I think you've been lucky. There's a big difference between editing an image in the Pro RGB colour space and editing it in the printer colour space. You will have been limiting the available colours in the editing and I'm surprised you haven't encountered problems like banding in areas of clear sky. If it's working for you then great but personally I will stick with Soft Proofing.

@@RobinWhalley Let me clarify. I do all my edits in the Pro RGB and the last thing I do before I send it off to the printer is to convert the image to the ICC profile of the printer and paper. The colours are converted to fit inside the gamut of the ICC profile.

Thanks for clarifying, I misunderstood your comment. I'm still not clear how you control the rendering intent when you do the conversion as there has to be some out of gamut colours when you move to the new colour space. Also, how do you allow for the effect of the paper colour in the print?

@@RobinWhalley I use the convert to profile option in Photoshop, and relative colourimetric rendering intent. After that is done, I use the soft-proofing option in PS to make sure there is no need for more contrast/brightness in the image. Finally I print with Print Studio Pro, and use relative colourimetric rendering intent there as well.