that wont work in forza, rally physic are shit in that game. better get WRC or Dirt rally

Yeah. I usually try other concepts like cadence or threshold braking on my steering wheel. I’ll have to try this

@@mcwater3439 is it gonna work on gran turismo, grid, or nfs?

@@tegarkusuma8008 I play forza so idek

wat

Only works with a S15 though

Make it a goal 🖤

Don't flip the car :P

Make sure to lower the tire pressure for better handling first

@@JohnClarkGaming dick

@@djstatyk1540 why? He's not wrong. Less pressure means more rubber in contact with the road. Just don't underinflate.

LegitCyan he’s trying to getting him killed :P

lol I wear steel toe every day and I've pulled off some wild shit with them on once you get used to it it's easy you just can't heel toe very easily

I wear work boots/snow boots daily and I live on 15 miles of dirt roads with lots of turns. It's what I'm use to doing, it's almost weird wearing shoes and driving aggressive. I also overbrake the first couple turns due to them being alot lighter

really, those boots!! ... driving shoes are narrow and don't have edges that can catch on each other... cause ya don't want to be stepping on your own feet.

Def can't do that in Italian cars.

keep the heel on the floor and practice when youre slow and slowly get your left foot out of clutch mode

Practice. Your left foot is dumb. It only knows the clutch. Make it smart, "teach" it the brake. Start in a an open parking lot. Then, on the street with no traffic. Then, in traffic. And finally drive your car all day to and from work resolved to ONLY left foot brake. And now your left foot is smarter.

hahahaha thanks xD was about to pull the pipe from the booster lol

@@bencrosbie First time i tried left foot braking in a parking lot, I ended up with a helluva bruise on my hips from the seatbelt (this was way back before shoulder belts were required by law or even very common) locked up the brakes on my little datsun 510 and about kissed the wind shield. Lol.

the heel on the floor is a good advice, what works for me is to allign the heel to the brake pedal and not the clutch it make it far easier and i guess it is the correct way to do it

Foresters are great! They definitely do it all and they are a lot of fun to drive. The Forester XT especially with the WRX engine is a great deal too, you can get your hands on them usually much cheaper in great condition than a WRX (at least here in the northeast US).

@@Teamoneilrally I am from Europe though and not in a rich country thats for sure... Every car with turbo is expensive here... So mine is just the 125hp one BUT it has a dual range gearbox... Theres nothing better offroad than a low gear subaru... My forester is pretty stock, except the tires and the shield on the bottom. I daily it so i got to have some balance you know? :D Also i am thankful for your answer and i really enjoy your lessons!

Old volvo 850's are a lot of fun too

Also, 90s mini-trucks are awesome for rally and auto-x

certaintly is less important on gravel, which is a rather forgiving surface

fredy gump reminds me of so many instances it has happened to me here. Proves that the unavoidable really is avoidable with experience.

Exactly right! That and looking optimistically into the turn where you want to go (not straight ahead at the snowbank and bracing for impact). It's amazing what your hand-eye coordination will do for you naturally if you can manage to keep your eyes on the prize.

Don't listen to fredy grump, this is fake news full of alternative facts. Taking a turn safely in icy roads requires the drive to ram the gas all the way to the floor (ram it down as hard as you can, even if you have to lift your butt off from the seat and extend your whole body down onto the gas pedal), then jerk the steering wheel to whatever direction you want to go. This maneuver will initiate a power slide which is the universally accepted way of safely making turns on icy roads. This tactic is also safe for motorcycles and large semi trucks.

@@Teamoneilrally i learned how effective that coordination is when i bought a street bike. very important to know how to do this on 2 and 4 wheels

CafeArtuk will be competing Ellen and mullah Julia Ella and mellow

You brake hard initially to slow the car down quickly, which also puts the weight on the front. Then you ease off the brakes slowly as you turn so that the weight stays on the front as you enter the corner (and also keeps decelerating somewhat as you enter the turn).

Thanks a lot, makes sense!

Anytime!

I think you guys should pin this comment, good explanation!

Hmm I just naturally knew how to trail brake before I learned what it was a couple years ago 👌

Are you still trying to get round the track as fast as you possibly can whilst trying this? Because that would explain why. Mental capacity improves by making actions automatic so that they no longer need your full attention, you can't expect to hone that skill if you're operating near your maximum already. Slow it down, focus on the technique and not the lap, one corner at a time. You'll be slower for a while, until you're suddenly faster.

Dylan O'Carroll thanks Dylan, fair comment. I do occasionally drive a lap at 80% and always notice and register things I wouldn’t normally. Have you driven on the nurburgring yourself?

I figured it out while learning how to drive. At the beginning, when slowing down from a 55 mph road, I'd turn into another street and have to stay on the brakes to not miss the corner and make it through the corner. I also felt it was more stable to keep the car on the brakes since I can brake as needed. This was far before I learned to appreciate cars and racing, I just didn't know how to judge braking distance lmao. Didn't get back on the throttle immediately and I still tend to let off the brake abruptly

As he said, worry about getting around the corner FIRST then worry about getting back in the right gear. Makes sense especially for anyone new to trail braking AND heeltoe downshifting.

the car is going to wanna die out when youre going super slow in 3rd

whadda u mean by help. by slowing car down with engine compression. NOT! i know what u mean. yes, getting the downshift done before is traditional turn entry. he's saying this cause there's no reason to flipout if u cant get downshift done, do it when u comfortably can, no biggee, do it after, turn. In general, you shift when ever its appropriate, period. Even if its in a turn, u have to execute all shifts with skill to not upset the balance of car with those negative consequences. He fails to discuss why u trail brake or what is its benefits. Trail braking is necessary to move to the next level of driving, ie going faster and higher level of car control. its using the brakes to transfer weight forward on to the steering wheels to improve/optimize turn in while simultaneously stay longer on the gas, faster on the preceding straight. Noobs are taught to finish all braking in a straight line, because the downside of clumsy, poorly done trailing brakes or trailing throttle into a turn is oversteer spin. Racing schools don't want noobs crashing all their cars, and it is helpful to not overwhelm noob drivers with higher level riskier techniques until later. It is impossible to drive fast or elegantly on circuit or rally without this technique. Plus, its huge fun, and on dirt, sometimes the only way to satisfactorily get the vehicle even turned in without undesirable mild, to massive, to terminal understeer. the term : Left foot braking :generally alludes to using dabs of it to transfer weight forward to mitigate understeer, which is related to or a form of trail braking. He describes it in scenario of hard full threshold braking, which is typical on loose surfaces of rally, but can be doled out as needed on circuit, classically trail more into slower tighter turns, less on faster turns, and avoid on high speed turns(want to keep weight transferred rearward to prevent oversteer), which is all based on car control. Mario Andretti is famous for a quote when interviewed on why he was so fast, and he said something like: " Because the other drivers use the brakes to slow down, I use the brakes to go faster" he's basically alluding to trail braking, i believe.

@@drtone thanks for the explanation i play a lot of sims with a wheel and pedals while im studying for my licence. knowing that what i learn in game has good similarities with real life, Its always handy to hear. Especially from someone who knows what they are talking about. Also yes i know sims have cosistent surfaces etc etc but its the only practical tool i have right now. Thanks for the "brakedown" on that.

@@drtone first of all, what you said was quite informative and helpful, thank you... But I believe the question was aimed more towards braking with the right foot to bleep the throttle in heel-N-toe for a smoother downshift?

We could do a whole video on this question (and we should) but basically there's no "right" answer. There is a time and place for both methods, but one response to your question would be: If you brake very late and aggressively, the speed is dropping fast enough that the RPM will match the gear you want without needing to heel/toe and blip the throttle etc. A secondary of that is: If you brake very late and aggressively, your attention will need to be 100% on feeling your brake pressure, grip and bumps and tire placement on the road, your steering angle, line into the corner, etc. One of our favorite videos for this is: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e71ygq51m8yrpWQ.html

I am far from experienced with high performance driving techniques, but I can still throw in my two cents. As far as not braking too much, that's one of the biggest things for me right now. When I autocross my 01 legacy (with an automatic), I don't have the power so I need to carry as much speed as possible into, through, and out of the corners. When I'm driving IRL, I find myself slowing down more than necessary, which is safe, but not as fast as possible. I really need a big open space to myself to experiment and build up my trust in both the car and the surface. I have a similar issue to you when I'm driving in racing sims with front wheel drive cars; I can get the car to rotate initially but it's very difficult to keep the car turning without loosing all of my speed. I don't want to say that I need to enter the corners faster, but I, too, feel like I'm missing something. Perhaps some suspension and alignment adjustments could make the car understeer less to begin with so you don't need to brake as much to maintain the turning? Seems like something that cannot be attained without lots of practice and guidance from instructors who know what they're doing. Also, my understanding of stability control is that it exists to reduce or eliminate "uncontrolled" sliding. When you get your car to rotate, the stability control is probably going to be stepping in and applying the brakes on its own accord to fight the slide and keep the direction of travel aligned with where the front wheels are pointing. Traction control fights wheel spin, stability control fights sliding. Give it a shot without stability control and feel it out; perhaps you will spin but electronic assists seldom assist in anything that isn't normal driving.

Just turn off the stability control and the car should be more predictable

@@RChero1010 teamoneil.com book a class. i really want to!

I’ve done it successfully once while rushing a left turn on a yellow. Not an si just a regular 4 cyl non turbo, I was absolutely gone, its really sick if you can get it right.

It's only ever really an issue on very slippery roads (snow and ice). Even if you do manage to stall the engine on pavement or gravel, it'll bump start itself again when you release the brakes... But on ice there might not be enough grip on the road to turn the tires and force the engine to bump start.

Think about it like this. You want to utilize all of the traction available to you at pretty much all times. On straightaways this doesn't apply as much but you want to utilize as much as you can. Go over the edge and you can break traction (over or understeer). Do to physics, you want to be slowing down into the corner, the slowing of the vehicle shifts the weight forward and makes turning into the corner require less steering. Doing the same amount of steering as you normally would could lead to breaking traction. You trail off the brakes until the apex of the corner and then slowly apply more throttle, trying to stay at/near the limit of traction. Correct as needed; because of human error, you will probably eventually break traction in one way or another, just try your best to correct it when it does happen. At the apex, you get on the throttle to increase the speed you carry through the corner and maximize exit speed. Left foot braking makes this transition smooth, but if you drive a manual right foot braking may make sense if you are using the heel and toe technique. You cannot accelerate hard at the beginning of the apex because you will spin out, so you have to ease onto the gas. As you unwind the steering wheel, you apply more gas. Many people use the brake and throttle at the same time mid corner just to stabilize their vehicle for a moment. It is still slow in fast out, you just slow down while you are going toward the apex and go fast out of the apex

@@youraveragegamer8832 I appreciate the information. 👍

Yes you can trail brake almost any vehicle on any surface.

repetition ...lock it up over and over on different surfaces to learn what you can do or if your at a track, flirt with a corner you can over shoot and not die on

Yes definitely

The ideal place to apply throttle (In most corners) according to Ross Bentley's book and every proficient driver I've talked to is BEFORE the apex. There's no reason to start applying throttle well after apex, in most cars, in most corners. If you balance the car well, you can apply some before or during apex. In modern racecars where left foot braking is the norm, good drivers apply some overlapping brake and throttle at the end of trailbraking, and then release the brake while applying more throttle. Not a lot, just a little. I think if you wait until the apex to apply throttle if you're *really* driving the limit, you will have unbalanced the car, either via coasting to the apex, or keeping too much load in the front. My 0.02 from talking to a lot of drivers and driving a lot in sims.

The old idiom goes something like this: On a track, you'll see the same 10 corners 100 times... Go do a rally, and you'll see 1000 corners, 1 time each. The math obviously isn't perfect, but the moral of the story rings true. That said, Arch is spot on: Try to get on the brakes and scrub most of your speed in a straight line, aim for a good line and trail brake in, and hopefully you can be back on the power before you get to the apex. That's plan A most of the time and looks good on a whiteboard, but if Plan A always works, you're probably not pushing hard enough. In the real world you'll end up on the brakes still past the apex sometimes for sure, and if that keeps you on the road, great. You're going to be a lot faster than at the wrong end of a tow strap.

@@Teamoneilrally Yeah, agreed. Even in simulation, where crashing ends up with a press of the escape key and a few clicks and you're back, I've noticed myself and other drivers are reluctant to drive "ideally" when driving a rally/hillclimb for the first time, codriver or not. More so if you're doing actual driving. Unless you're Max Verstappen and don't know the difference :).

Though you do have to be pushing your car fairly hard to feel the effects of it. Plus, it's probably harder on your brakes.

Of course that is not about screaming tyres, but brakes and transmission with heel&toe is an option out there.

That's an intended feature of FWD cars, more or less. Play around with it in an empty parking lot, and try out left foot braking to overlay a bit of throttle. Before you look at the car setup, look at the thing controlling the car.

As he said, it is a universal technique. It's the driver, not the car's fault.

@@ianholmquist8492 Although I will add, some cars are more prone to over-rotation, so you need to correct it as the driver. Some more modern cars especially won't be eager to rotate. And of course, you don't need to *always* trailbrake. Cars are usually best balanced pedal to the metal, so in very fast corners, you might not trailbrake at all, or very little.

@@ArchOfficial for sure, although greatly depending on grip conditions, etc. As our man Wyatt said.

The great thing about fwd is a bit of throttle timed right will bring the rear under control ( unless you have really over rotated ). I found correcting lift off oversteer with the gas pedal is easier and carries more speed through corners than simply steering into it in most situations I've encountered.

We keep the brake boosters in most of the rally school cars... we do take them out of the Fiestas and replace the master cylinders so that the pedal feel is easy still, but the Subarus and BMWs and everything are still pretty standard from the factory.

In the Subarus, how do you manage the brakes while applying throttle? When there's reduced vacuum in the intake manifold, you only get one or two presses of the brake pedal before it goes rock-solid. In the next few years I really want to go through a full course at Team O'Neil but in the meantime I try to pick up what I can for when I'm experimenting with my 01 legacy wagon in the snow. Until I can get stiffer sway bars, I am fighting understeer in every turn in the autocross events I go to... I wish there were a cheaper way to get behind the wheel with an instructor and experience this style of driving because college tuition limits me to sim racing, which is realistic enough to apply real techniques, but not real enough for you to learn them on your own.

The easy thing to do is find a tight corner that's safe to practice on, come in as fast as possible and work on braking later and later, over and over, ten or twenty or a hundred times. After that session, you will probably have a very different opinion of heel toe shifting than you do now.

This would work with an automatic, and yes turn off everything you can!

@@Teamoneilrally okay thanks, I plan to have some fun in winter with my daily driver

Heel and toe is a good technique in some situations, but if you're at maximum braking coming into a corner, the speed is dropping fast enough that you often don't need to worry about it.

Thank you for clarifying

Yes and yes!

That completely depends on the angle of the corner, the tighter the corner is, the slower you have to go around it

@@Teamoneilrally if it's a medium difficulty corner, and your coming into the corner at 70mph, trailbreak then maintain speed throughout the corner, would 50-60mph be considered good? This is of course talking about non-racecars.

We try to leave what someone might do on the street up to them, but to answer your question: Trail braking is definitely a little more risky than the method you described, but it's also definitely faster. Trail braking on a bike is just hard full front brake, then gradually trailing off as you lean in for the corner. Keeping the weight on the front and the front forks compressed into the corner gets maximum grip out of the front tire and also alters the geometry of the bike, with the front compressed the wheelbase is shorter and you also have more rake angle, making the bike easier to turn. You'll see the top riders of every discipline using it, the MotoGP guys routinely come into corners hard enough on the front brake that the rear tire is floating completely off the ground. You're definitely correct that it's dangerous to ride on the street with that kind of commitment, nobody's normal Sunday ride should look like they're racing the Isle of Mann TT, but in an emergency it can save your butt. Say you mis-judge a corner and you've got a bunch too much speed on the way in... you've gotta trail brake or crash , those are your only two options. It's like learning skid control, you might not drive to work like Ken Block every morning but it's great to have in your back pocket when something goes wrong.

It'll work well in any car, as long as you're coming into the corner fast... If it's a 30mph corner and you can come in at even 50 or 60 then trail braking will work great. It's 100% a braking and steering technique on the way into the corner, how much acceleration you get on the way out is just a bonus.

@@Teamoneilrally ohh damnnn I see! I can't wait to have my licence and try stunts n techniques! Getting my licence this December. Thank youu!

I used to break like this in my first years but i got thaught that i have to slow down completely before the corner.

you must be a genius!!

That's very common, but you would have to brake earlier to accomplish that. If you brake at the last possible second, you often end up shifting in the corner.

Indy7272 thats fine, you just take more risk in locking the diff.

Heel and toe should be solving that.

If you always have time to downshift before the corner, you're probably not braking as late and hard as you could be. On the street, that's a good thing! It's safe and consistent... but if you want to go racing, pick a safe corner somewhere and try going faster and faster into it and braking later and later. You'll probably find that if you're braking at the last possible moment, the shift is going to happen somewhere in the corner.

Team O'Neil Rally School quote Colin McCrae

@@Teamoneilrally What about heel to toeing as you brake hard, right before steering input begins? Or do you want to strictly lefty foot brake.

Are you deaf? LMFAO

Negative, we disable the ABS as well as any traction control, stability control, etc. You will find that if you have ABS, your car will not be able to stop as quickly especially on a slippery road.

The ABS has been disabled.

Because it gets a little crazy sometimes here at Rally School and hiking boots are just easier if it's muddy or whatever... Driving shoes wouldn't last very long out here and hiking boots aren't terrible once you get used to them.

New England all-purpose footwear. Can't beat it

When i got my first rally car i drove it on the roafs to get used to it. Due to the fashion back then i was wearing cowboy boots, and when it came to the first event i had to drive in the cowboy boots because anything else felt too weird! As the navigator, hiking boots are great as they give you lots of traction when pushing the car out of a ditch ;)