HP All-in-One PC Short Circuit Tracing Motherboard Component Level Repair Tutorial

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LER #173
This HP All In One has a short circuit on the motherboard - can we fix it? Learn Short Circuit Tracing Techniques
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Richard

Пікірлер: 73

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

Yes I know the MOSFET gate resistor broke off the board - obviously it was not soldered as well as I thought. I mention this later in the video. I don't know what value it was, it pulls the gate high to hold the MOSFET off until the SIO or PCH turns it on by pulling it low. Remember this is a P Channel MOSFET so the gate voltage must be negative relative to the source to switch it on. I doubt the value is critical, I'll put a 10K in there most likely unless anyone wants to suggest another value

@Adrian_Finn 2 жыл бұрын

On page 3 of the data sheet I was looking at, in the table is a circuit diagram which seems to have a 4.7ohm pull down resistor on the gate, maybe a good place to start.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

@@Adrian_Finn Thanks for the info

@standishgeezer 2 жыл бұрын

Did I not notice you measuring the broken off resistor @ 17:22?

@mhoop1 7 ай бұрын

Was there ever a followup on this video? I'm looking at the exact same power issue on the same model and wondered if your solution was correct?

@maxwarfield6699 Жыл бұрын

I find a lot of videos on KZfaq which help us find shorted components on PCBs but I don’t see any, which show how to find the issue on a board, when a component is “open” causing the board to malfunction. I find those repairs to be really difficult. Perhaps, you could make a videos about that. Anyhoo, another great video right here so, thank you kindly sir. Cheers!

@Mymatevince 2 жыл бұрын

Great video Richard, full of info. Thanks for making it 👍👍👍

@fountechelectronicsandsolu8898 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing your technics and tips and knowledge with everyone. This is the electronics technology....

@user-xl4ev4uh5v 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing techniques 👍

@anthonydenn4345 2 жыл бұрын

Well done finding the shorted part. Interesting technique you used, thanks for sharing it.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. I've been asked recently a few times to do a video showing short finding with voltage injection - I think this one is a very interesting example and explains why sometimes you can have a dead short (or very close) and nothing gets hot. The shorted capacitor had 80mV across it. The PSU was supplying 5A so the wattage dissipated by the faulty component (which basically is what makes it get hot) was 0.08 (80mV) x 5A = 0.4W and it was also in area of the board that could sink a lot of heat. Hence it was barely getting warm.

@wasiuwahab8183 2 жыл бұрын

Great video man. Thanks

@RickL_was_here Жыл бұрын

Funny watching this now and your comment about the thermal camera... Seems someone watched this and fulfilled your wish.

@DevilbyMoonlight Жыл бұрын

I may be late to the party as I've only just come across this one.. but incase you didnt already know, the middle pin can sometimes be used on laptop style charger for charger ID via the 1 wire protocol using a series of packets sent from the psu and can be identified in the bios on some machines - I 1st came across these with the Dell pa10 & pa12 chargers, but hp sometimes do the same, but great stuff as usual richard :)

@CXensation 2 жыл бұрын

A little trick to locate a warm/hot spot is to brushpaint the suspected area with IPA. The hot spot will immediately evapourate the IPA, whilst the surrounding cooler components will keep wet for some time longer. You can still use your standard ATX supply for tracing shorts. You just need a simple way to limit the current, like a car headlamp bulb in series with either 5V or 12V output. That would give you something like either 1.5A or 5A current limit. If you use a standard H4 bulb, you can connect both HI/LO filaments in parallel and raise the current limit to something like 9A @ 12V.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that is a good method in may cases. I tried that and also freezer spray on this board but it was generating so little heat it didn't help - only the back of the finger could detect it after it had been on for several minutes. And even that could not tell me exactly which part was short - but the millivolt meter found it 😁

@hobo2566 2 жыл бұрын

Kinda enjoying your British accent and all it comes with, yeah :)

@Xorat 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Richard, are you going to buy a thermal cam some day or are you always going to do the ouchi test ? Good video as always!

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

Well I am hoping to eventually get enough subscribers to get offered some product reviews LOL so I'll hold off on that one for a bit. The finger worked well this last 40 odd years and has a bit of life left in it yet!

@Infiniti25 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair there’s a FLIR thermal camera in the CAT S60 and I think S61 and S62 smartphones in case you can pick one of those up for around £100 like I did.

@ralphj4012 2 жыл бұрын

Prior to getting a thermal cam you could use the 'lighter fluid technique', albeit a bit hazardous.

@johnprescott6614 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair "The finger worked well this last 40 odd years" lol, imagination running wild.

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

@@johnprescott6614 ha ha ha.

@stevedebeukelaer1424 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Richard first you need thicker wires for injecting voltagen next time. To find the cultprit where the short was you need to measure the secondary power supply inductiors to the current sensor . The inductir where you measure less then 1 ohm is the problem . To find which component you can use the alcohol or rosin smoke methode to find the faulty component. I hope those tips will help you in future problems diagnostic. You can buy rosin fumer. Or you can just use your iron whit solid rosin. Good luck and i hope those tips will be usefull. Regards Steve from Belgium

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

@Steve De Beukelaer Thanks for the tips. Could you just clarify and expand upon this statement 'to find the culprit where the short was you need to measure the secondary power supply inductors to the current sensor . The inductor where you measure less then 1 ohm is the problem' It sounds like some useful information but I can't quite figure out what you mean. In the case of this example the shorted component was barely warming up at all, I could just detect it with the back of my little finger after it had been on for some minutes. I tried isopropyl alcohol and freezer spray (off video) but neither would help as the heat was so low. I totally agree regards thicker wires, the ones I used were pretty hefty to be honest but anything that reduces the resistance of the leads between the PSU and the device under test will help. I thought the method I used in the end (milli-volt meter) to show how to locate a difficult short was a good one and well worth teaching to those who may not know it as it is not so commonly demonstrated, and I hope you agree with that, but of course I am interested to try the alternative method you suggest. Thanks.

@stevedebeukelaer1424 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair hi what i mean is one probe to the current sensor , secondary probe to large grey coils . Which one that has less then one ohm is the secondary power supply that has an problem , to find the faulty component you use the best rosin smoke the component ( most likely capacitor will heats up and the other one will stay on the smoke that is the one which is shorted. You can double chech the coil to ground then you will find the same resistance to ground as the current resistance to ground. I hope it is more clear sorry it was not clear but english is not my native language. If you have more questions free to ask.

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

Alcohol or rosin smoke method. Now that sounds interesting. This is whats good about the internet. Kind folk sharing.

@vincentclarke7266 2 жыл бұрын

Hello Richard can you tell me what the adaptor is that you use to test pci express graphics of the motherboard thanks Vince

@jilbertohd_yt4559 Жыл бұрын

Hi, which career or online course do you recommend I study to be able to diagnose shorts on electronic boards and circuits? Thanks in advance

@surgingcircuits6955 Жыл бұрын

Not convinced that the bench PSU is actually injecting as it's protection circuit may give those readings. I think something like the Mechanic VC04 Short Killer might work better. Thx for the video.

@mhoop1 7 ай бұрын

@LearnElectronicsRepair Was there ever a followup on this video? I'm looking at the exact same power issue on the same model and wondered if your solution was correct?

@Franklinveterinarycenter1of4 10 ай бұрын

Please sir, it has been better than 1 1/2 years, did the "part" come in and where is part 2 for this repair?

@tarekaouachria835 Жыл бұрын

Is there is any web site to get any pcb board diagram?

@jalukeren7694 11 ай бұрын

hi Richard I have a little problem with the same motherboard as this one, the motherboard turns on normally but the 12v power on the hard drive power pin is missing, so the 3.5' hard drive is not working, do you have any ideas on which part I should focus on to find this problem?

@faustsmith 2 жыл бұрын

What is meant by "live booth ok'"?

@maxwarfield6699 Жыл бұрын

Hello again, At 26:21 min, you say that the component that gives you the lowest reading, in millivolts, should indicate the area/component where the short is. But if there IS a shorted component, doesn’t that mean that, THAT component isn’t offering much resistance, thus allowing more current/volts through? So, why set your DMM on mVs, when what you are looking for is, a component which is letting through a GREATER flow of current/volts - shouldn’t you set your DMM on Volts instead? Please explain this to me, I want to learn. Cheers!

@alunroberts1439 2 жыл бұрын

You had a link for service information on dvd can you tell me were I can not find the video you had it on.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

Nope, wasn't me. There are a lot of schematics on the LER Discord server, you can download them for free on there. Learn Electronics Repair is now on Discord - come and join the fun and let's fix stuff together, it is free discord.gg/vam6YC8vwU

@maxwarfield6699 Жыл бұрын

Hello, At +/-25 min your PSU is putting out 00.6 V but your DMM is reading it as 218.9 mVs [that’s roughly 0.2 Vs, right?] so, what’s wrong there?

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

Im scared of electrecuting myself but want to get into repairs. It looks rather satisfying.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

Start repairing low voltage stuff like computers, games consoles, laptops (with LED backlights) etc. As long as you don't want to work on power supplies you are quite safe.

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair Yes thats the plan. I think im going to play it safe as can be.

@Infiniti25 2 жыл бұрын

Do you ever listen to PSUs like these laptop style adapters? Over time you will be able to hear when a PSU is likely to be working and when it isn’t switching or is switching incorrectly. You can also hear squeals and how those change when you plug it in. Yet another method of troubleshooting. Would be nice if you could rig up a really sensitive clear microphone for the viewers to “hear” the PSUs and how they change under load and unloaded scenarios etc.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

@Infinity25 _ I'm setting up an audio mixer to improve the sound and it has several inputs so I could have a go. The problem with that technique is that hearing gets worse with age (at least mine did) and with too many disco nights, raves and years of DJing I can't hear a lot of things I once could

@Infiniti25 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair I have never had a hearing test but I know I have some deficiencies. It doesn’t stop me hearing squealing sounds in the PSUs and the clicking noises in hard drives with enough effectiveness to hazard a guess. You have to press your ear against the case for it to transfer better.

@maxwarfield6699 2 жыл бұрын

Hello, I’m still quite the novice when it comes to electronics, so, pardon my ignorance. My question: Couldn’t quite hear what you said, regarding that 2.2 MegaOhm resistor - how come you chose that value and what for? Also, it’s creating an “open” you say, don’t you mean a short? I’m greatly confused. Please clarify, for me. Thank you kindly

@andrewbuntine2871 2 жыл бұрын

He is basically using the resistor to simulate two separate wires. The resistance is so large that it is effectively "open". This way he doesn't really need to worry about the two ends of the resistor shorting. Think of it like two separate wires. One on the negative and one on the positive. But to prevent those two wires from flopping around and shorting together you tie them both to something non-conductive (or something with huge resistance).

@easternperspective0244 2 жыл бұрын

also a video on your techniques generally used to troubleshot this problems i watched many of your videos but they are missing the explanation how you will basically approach a repair problem

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

I rather hoped this was a video showing basic (and not so basic) troubleshooting techniques to trace a short circuit, which is a common fault situation, but if you cold let me know in more detail what you would like to see I will do my best.

@easternperspective0244 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair you made one how to repair atx psu that format was good i mean 1 video about basics is enough then you can make as usually which are also very good but not so good for a noob like me

@easternperspective0244 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair i mean like how to repair atx psu.the full tutorial this is the name of your video and if you make one for desktop motherboard and graphics card it will help alot

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

@@easternperspective0244 Oh I get what you meean now - the GPU equivalent of the 'how to repair any ATX' video is here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/idOGl89p0Mvbj2g.html I haven't done one like that for motherboards yet as it is A: such a complex topic, B: so many generations of motherboards and C: to be totally frank, I don't think my knowledge is extensive enough yet to tackle it... but hopefully at some point in the future I will do my best and have a go

@Martin-ot7xj 2 жыл бұрын

Hi there, i have a question, after that Mosfet, you had a Current Resistor, could you inject voltage on the Current Resistor plus side??? thnx

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

@Martin Could you explain a little bit more what you have in mind so I can answer correctly - thanks

@Martin-ot7xj 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair my question is after mosfet you had current resistor !! why you didn't inject voltage on current resistor?/??thnx

@lucid8191 2 жыл бұрын

Can i make a request to fix my grafick card and how mutch is the price

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

sure - email me electronicanaria@outlook.com

@ColinBoath 2 жыл бұрын

Does anyone still read this? I'm looking to identify a component don't recognise and Google comes up with absolutely nothing.

@easternperspective0244 2 жыл бұрын

can you make a video on desktop motherboards and laptops on the precise power on sequence which chip starts first and how then the various topologies you encountered , it s way more valuable in terms of knowledge than random vids which are good but dont cover the basics of this motherboards power architecture ps and for the basics of graphics cards all i find is indians speaking broken english can t understa nd anything

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

I've done power on sequence videos on GPUs several times - I have not had the chance to do that on motherboards yet but will if/when i get chance - it's not that I am doing 'random' videos - this is what I am being given to repair, I have no idea how it will turn out until i fix it (or can't)

@easternperspective0244 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair ok i found the graphics card ones thanks alot they are perfect exactly what i was missing

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

Couldnt you use a thermal camera?.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, if I had one 😉

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair ha ha thanks. Your the expert im the novice. Im just watching many repairs and looking at the tools and techniques. I am leanring the basics to get a decent foundation in electronics to be able to repair so recycle. Thanks for sharing.

@LearnElectronicsRepair 2 жыл бұрын

@@thegroove2000 Welcome to the channel 😀 If I may recommend a couple of useful free resources www.badcaps.net/forum it's the largest repair forum in the internet. Learn Electronics Repair discord server Learn Electronics Repair is now on Discord! Come and join the fun and let's fix stuff together, it's free and a nice place to be. Here is the invite link: Everyone welcome discord.gg/vam6YC8vwU Richard

@thegroove2000 2 жыл бұрын

@@LearnElectronicsRepair Thanks.

@no1be4me2 2 жыл бұрын

A thermal cam probably save you a lot of time...

@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading Жыл бұрын

Heya, very nice explaned but you really have to know your stuff if you want to find this kind of fault, I meny a good unther standing of how thinks are bild and that you will only get from experience.