Tesla’s don’t use hub motors! They use the same principle motor though. A single speed fed through a gear reduction. Also. Hub motors don’t cause loose spokes. But cheap, poorly made ones do😀 Hub motors still suck 🙌

Speaking as a 62 year old disabled person If anyone out there is confused or undecided on which configuration ebike to get I say any ebike configuration is better than riding a non ebike, don't fear jump in. I spent too much time trying to decide on the perfect one for me. I ended up buying a used one for a great price that doesn't meet the standards that I want in any way. The quality of my life has improved 100% by the mobility I now enjoy. I'm going to upgrade to a better ebike but in the meantime life is good. 😊

I have both, practically speaking, I like redundancy with no down time, so my preference is hub. If my hub goes out I can still pedal, if my chain or gearset goes out, I have the hub. Two independent systems working in parallel. In my mid motor, if chain or gears go, I have to stop. Both have pros n cons as your video shows, I just prefer not to stop for my very ordinary rides.

I’ve had both. Although the mid drive does offer more torque via mechanical advantage of the gear system, I got tired of the chain getting whacked off because of the torque. Happy with my hub drive…

I've got both. The hubbers only fall short on the steep climbs. That's what the mid drive is for, tough single track. For exploring old tracks in the countryside the hubbers shine. The hubbers can negotiate high grass and overgrowth without getting the drivetrain entangled in grass. Just don't peddle and let the hub motor do the work. That is not possible on a mid drive or regular bike. Other advantages to a hubber is drive train redundancy, twice I've had to peddle and, once after bending the chain ring on a hidden stump at speed, rode out with just the hub motor. Also hubbers are cheap to repair. All in all I agree with Mr. Nerdout that mids out preform hubbers, but that doesn't mean hub motors aren't good. Just because a Ferrari will outpreform a Miata doesn't mean the Miata is no good.

Hub motors are great. I have a hub drive 750w Himiway Cruiser. I don't need a lot of high end type performance. Im sure that mid drives are great, but that doesn't just simply discount all the benefits of a hub drive system. I weigh 230 lbs and my hub drive zips me up hills in my town no problems. I have almost 450 miles on my ebike and have zero complaints.

Thanks for the info, I’m happy with my folding 500 watt hub, bought it in 19 and have had no problems. I’m retired and use it to cruise around every other day, it’s great against the wind and will go uphill a bit, not like your bike but good enough on the prairies. The one problem I should mention is that in hot weather after a while the thermal switch kicks in and it shuts down. 5 minutes in the shade and it’s ready to go. I’ll try out your recommendation for my next bike.

One kind of related comment: The hub motor shown here has a relatively small diameter, I've used one with a 10" diameter and the torque is enormous because the moment arm is longer. So a better comparison would be between a mid motor and a large hub motor with the same wattage.

I watched your intro video and loved it. I felt like I now have a friend that is a e-bike pro! I had a bunch of questions and found that you have a ton of videos already posted that answer most of my questions. Now I just need to make the time to watch all of them. Thanks and keep up the great work!

I like hub motor you don’t have to talk to the bank in order to buy an electric bike.

the price is the real diferance i use hub every time 1500-5000w i love it

Thank you ! I searched for weeks to find info on electric bikes . Today I use a standard pedal , it's great exe4cise BUT...I am 86 yr old ...hope to be around another 14 years.

Your videos gave me knowledge and confidence. I just finished a bafang 750w motor. WOW I am impressed. I've only ever tried hubs before. Love the setup and love your channel

Thanks for the comparison. I've broken a couple of spokes on my $200 ebay 1kw hub motor but it otherwise seems bombproof. I use it solely for commuting and errands but have over 3k miles on my 2nd hand kit, seems very reliable. Not having to pedal is nice when I take it to work so I'm not sweaty, definitely an advantage of the hub motor if that's your use case.

I live in Europe and here, things are a bit more complicated. If you want to buy a new bike with a mid drive, you will pay a lot more, than with a hub drive. I drive both and for me, it's more a question of the riding style. I totally agree with you on the fact, that a mid drive is more natural, like a normal bike. I have a Bosch on my Cube, and yes it's really good. On the other side I have a totally cheap trekking bike with a 250W hub motor, just a cadence sensor, no throttle as it isn't allowed here, and I love it too. As much as I love the Bosch, it is to loud and at 25km/h I get stuck in a to slow or fast gear. Thats frustrating and I don't get a Deore 10 speed cassette with a better ratio to fix that problem. Thats an unknown problem with my hubmotor, as it feels like you just riding a wave. I really love high cadences, and for that, a hub motor is the best, in my opinion. All mid drive motors I've tested, are getting very loud once get over 90 crank revolutions. When you hit 100 and more, you just have to love the sound of motors. My hub motor is just quit. I will never get up mountains with it, but if you live in a flat area I think, the hub motor is a very nice option. And another thing, my Bosch bike needed a fresh wear set after 4000km, my trekkingbike with the hub motor is on it's first wear set without any problems after 12.000km. So when someone ask me, what should I get, I wouldn't just say mid drive as I think hub motors can be very very nice.

Other thing to keep in mind on a bike with rear suspensions is that a hub motor is adding unsprung mass.

Hey Johnny, HAPPY THANKSGIVING! I have a Haluzak Horizon and am intrigued by your research. I have been thinking about enhancing my bike. The Horizon has an idler pully as the chain is 2 1/4 normal chains together. Can a mid drive be adapted to do this?

I wanted to get an e-bike kit for some time but I couldn’t decide whether to get a hub or mid drive but your video convinced me to get a mid drive so yesterday I ordered a Bafang 750W BBS02B mid drive kit. Thanks.

Both mid-drive Motors and hub Motors transmit all the power to the tire through the spokes. And in fact if the mid Drive motor is more powerful and allows you to accelerate harder than the hub Drive motor it would be harder on the spokes then would be the Hub Drive motor which is weaker.

I’ve had both a hub and mid drive@ Specialized Vado and a Rad Rover, much prefer the hub motor on the Rad. Just my opinion. Haven’t had any problems with my hub drive, but plenty of issues and expensive problems with the mid drive. I also like how the hub drive feels over the mid drive.

In a very glad that there are people like you that take the time to put out valuable information because when I bought my bike I shopped for months before settling on the all-wheel drive one that I did but please keep making more videos they're very well done and well thought out

I converted my Santa Cruz blur to a bafang mid drive over a year ago. It's brilliant so much power. I love it off road. Recently I added a boxer tripple crown fork (2nd hand) and a dropper seat post. Pavement road riding 35+ miles. Dirt steep hills and canyons 20+. 500 watt battery. Cheers from California

Hub motors are starting to be more mainstream, and by more mainstream, I mean cheap. Mid drive ebikes off the shelf did command a huge premium just a few years ago, and are only just now becoming comparable in price to hub motor ebikes. If I were to buy another ebike, I would consider mid drive for the points you mentioned. One thing that bothers me about this comparison is that the example videos you showed is for motor only, without pedaling. For me ebike is supposed to supplement my energy input, not replace it all together. I never coast just because I have an electric bike.

I agree that mid drives are better but the thing you said about the spokes is true for a mid drive as well. When you peddle your bike on a mid drive the power will end up at your back wheel and if it making more power it should be harder on your spokes on that wheel.

Great video Johnny. I agree with Johnny. I decided to use an E-bike to commute to work, so I can avoid looking like I was in the TDF when I get to work. I converted my 8 speed internally geared bike using a 750 watt mid-drive. It has a tension sensor on my shift cable. The sensor causes the motor to pause when I shift through my gears. It reminds me of cars I have owned that have a stick shift and a clutch! It works great. I start in 1st gear and shift up as I gain speed. I don't have to use the high assist to accelerate. I have lots of stop/start intersections to deal with in my commute and using the gears is a lot better on the battery. I rarely get past the 5th level of assist in my commute and its usually 4-5 minutes fast than just pedaling. I don't think I will break a 1/8" chain any time soon.

JohnnyNerd, I did it. I successfully converted my hub motor ebike to the Bafang mid-motor and WOW, what a difference. Smoother ride, better acceleration, more power, and quieter. Thanks for your advice and videos. I will be upgrading my wife's bike next.

Thank you for this succint but detailed breakdown of the differences between the two. I think I was leaning toward a hub only for the sake of a more convenient installation. But understanding the (now) obvious performance of a drivetrain versus a wheel in terms of torque I have no doubt about mid drive. This is an older video but I am curious which motor would be geared the best for a utility bike that is used towing a trailer and hill climbs, sometimes both. I was planning to add a e-bike drivetrain sooner but as I rode more I got in shape I find I dont need it as much as I needed to get in shape but it would be nice having assist in the hilly terrain I explore on bike camp trips with a small trailer for gear/surfboard.

Good video thanks. I’ve converted my Carrera (do you have those in America ?) to mid drive 750w 42v setup with an 850c display. It"s brilliant. It does 32 mph but I have just bought a lead to tune it up differently. Do you have any setup ideas? Keep up the good work mate...

Thank you for the video & info. I have been kicking around the idea of building a e-bike for some time. I have built two motorized bike kits 2 stroke & 4 stroke. Where I live there are a few nasty hills. The mid drive motor sounds like the ticket for sure my friend. Thank you!

I will keep my hub. I'm very happy with it.

People just learning about e-bikes should take note of your advice. Back in 2015, when I got interested in e-bikes, it took months of research to learn what you just covered in under 12 minutes. Well done!

Thank You Jonnynerdout !!! I am a 69 year old lifelong garage nerd. I have recently become fascinated by ebikes. Yours is a educated hub motor middrive comparison. Thanks. Subscribed.

I have both drive types and I had the hub first since it is cheaper. My first bike $800 amazon, second $2100 from China direct. The later bike has a 1000w Bafang mid drive. The ability to use the assist up hill is cool, but the 7 gears are not always easy to use. The difference between driving stick and manual, you have to think, and not always when it is convenient. You have to shift ahead of hills or you end up power skipping the chain with the motor assist. For my $2100 bike it only uses gear 1 to climb any significant hill. I tried gear 2 and it skips like crazy in any assist level. My 7 only works on a perfectly flat road or down hill, or it will skip with assist even in assist level 1. 6 is my go to cruise speed. I work through 3, 4, and 5, often. I been riding both bikes to the battery is out lately. I park one and hope on the other. The top speeds and average speed is not that different. The key difference to top speed is how full the battery is. When it gets low it gets much slower. When either bike is full I hit 20pmh easy. I think that is funny since the cheaper bike has the 500w hub motor. The hub motor bike I leave in the mid range of gears most the time and forget it unless necessary in the moment. Now for the steepest hills, mid-drive wins, being in gear 1 with power assist 5 is a dream, as it mitigates the down side of the granny gear, the infinite crank turns it normal takes to get to the top, can be streamlined by the motor. I hope it is easy to upgrade and replace the sprockets on my mid drive bike. It will surely destroy chains and the gears faster with the motor torqueing the drive train. So my conclusion is the increase in money had some rewards but not necessary enough to justify the cost increase. Both ways have pros and cons that any buyer should understand. For a budget friendly entry into ebikes. I recommend the hub as it is much cheaper. A lot of people I know do not use the bikes as much as the imagine any how. The thrill of the motor assist bike can be had on either. At least hub motors chain won't suck your pants in!

Thank you so much for sharing that, you just made my decision for me Very informative I loved how you explain the mechanics of both choices by far the most intelligent explanationThank you.

I had a hub motor that drew 1100 to 1200 watts going up a particular hill at 7 mph with me pedaling as hard as I could in my long-wheelbase recumbent. I ground the spoke rings off that *exact* *same* *motor* and clamped the axle to a frame extension so it drove a freewheeling sprocket crank-motor style. (The whole motor still spun.) From there, I ran a chain to a freewheeling crank and adjusted the sprocket size until the motor's ideal RPM matched my preferred cadence. I went up that same hill at 12 miles per hour using 700 watts, also pedaling as hard as I could. I had much more power, much more speed, and about three times the range with the motor mounted to drive the crank. Not only that, but one day the motor seized on me. I just removed the chain that ran from the motor to the crank and pedaled home the old fashioned way. If it had seized on the hub I would have been calling everyone I knew who had a pickup truck. So, the only thing I like better than a motor that drives the crank is a motor that drives a chain that drives the crank.

Hey man, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I was hesitant and nervous about getting a mid drive on my last bike. I had 4 hub drive bikes before and knew what I had so I didn't want to take a chance. I visualized the chain being a major player in the mid drive and got nervous of having the chain break or slip out on the road. With the hub drive even if my chain is off the crank I can still move. Having a motor put all that force on the chain and gears didn't appeal to me. I'm sure if I did get the mid drive I may never want to go back to hub. It didn't help that in Manhattan a lot of bike shops don't like you walking in with an electric bike. All their service charges goes up once you give them an electric bike,

Just picked up my brand spanker 750W Dual Motor E-Bike and it's out of this world AMAZING, very strong torque, example climbed up a 25% gradient hill which approximately 1/4 mile climb , and at a consistent speed of 29 miles an hour , at last I've found an E-Bike that I'm happy with the overall performance!! Love your channel buddy, you are amazing !!

I had too much issues with hub motors. I had to replace two times my hub motor due to internals meltdown. I live in a location with many steep hills and a hub-motor doesnt take the advantages of the chain when driving uphills. Instead the hub-motor just uses full power to reach its speed target. After replacing the motor for second time, I sold it and bought a mid-drive ebike and no issue since then.

Although I prefer mid drive motors over hub motors for my area and riding style for many people hub motors work better. Several of my friends have Rad rovers with thousands of miles on them. Never any spoke issues although one burned out a motor due to weight and over stressing it on super steep hills. For flatter areas and non enthusiasts hub motors are an excellent choice. Mid drive motors stress the drivetrain and chain and poor adjustments to the drivetrain can and will snap chains. The average rider doesn’t know how to swap out a chain quickly and it is usually a messy job. I use a direct drive hub motors in my pusher bob trailer . Small wheel dives great torque and 48 volts gives speeds over 30 mpg. If a wheel is built properly a hub motor should be just fine. Plenty of non motorized bikes have wheel and spoke issues

There is one thing I have not seen people mention. For a hub drive e bike it's very difficult to take the drive wheel off. For example when you have a flat that can not be patched and you have to replace the whole tube or when you have to replace your tire, it is a nightmare especially the hub drives with torque arms installed.

Definitely helped me make my mine up. I'm looking for a good off road bike for hunting mostly, with pedal assist, and full power! What would your recommend bike be, we're I'm not spending 1000sss trying to stay at up to 2500

Having driven both for 10 000 km, I would choose hub motor on front wheel. It's better in deepish snow (or sand), because with both wheel drive it's easier to go straight and have better traction. Lower power output don't really matter, because speed is regulated to 25 kph (well, mine goes 33 kph) and battery capacity is not a problem. And hub motor is more maintenance free, with mid drive I needed to replace chain on that 10 000 km once, no such need with hub motor. ;) For biking enthusiasts who drive longer distances on one go, don't have snow and actually bother to do some maintenance more than once a year, mid drive is probably better. I don't do much maintence, just add some pressure to wheels when it gets so heavy that it drains battery too fast. As a sidenote I don't even change studded winter tires at summer, because with ebikes it's better to have bit of exra sound, so that I don't need to ring a bell to get past people. For some reason, ringing a bell really annoys some people and reaction times are anyways too slow and sometimes reaction is that people get into way.. Much smoother going through traffic with winter tyres, everyone keeps out of way and no negativity at all.. And it seems that bike thieves are not really interested about my bike. There's not so much valuable parts in hub motor ebike, where as mid drives are valuable.

I appreciate the knowledge and advice very much thanks. I think I might have to save up more for middrive Just some clarification please, when you talk about hub drive being single geared, but they actually have various levels of electric assist, or "power levels" generally from 1 to 3 or 1 to 5 where higher level = more power. Eg you could use level 1 as eco mode for longer journey but switch to 3 on a hill climb for more help. In the side by side comparison the middrive bike, the guy wasn't pedalling. Can you throttle only with that motor? I mean if your chain isn't broke. Sometimes it's fun to just cruise like that

Thanks for your video: it confirmed a lot of things I was thinking about and helped draw attention to some new critical points.

EXTREMELY helpful for someone just starting to learn about this before considering an ebike

I enjoy my hub motor conversion . In Australia we can only legally have 250w motors anyway . Yes you get more power from a mid drive but also more drive train wear which you didn't mention . My spokes have never been loose yet and it's easy to keep a eye on them and adjust them if needed . Hub motors are a lot cheaper to buy and less maintenance so it's hubs for me :-)

Great video on the comparison. I have both, a 750W hub and a 1000W BBSHD. Been riding my hub drive bike for like 7 months and yesterday was my first time riding my bike with the BBSHD and the difference in power is night and day. Torque, speed and the quiet motor on the mid drive is super nice.

Perfect explanation of the benefits of a mid-drive at any wattage - well done young man!

Do you think an e bike would be appropriate for a 10 mile commute to work? with moderate hills? I'm considering getting one but really not sure yet

I have a front hub. Maybe not the best, but 2-wheel drive really helps when navigating through some sand or loose dirt.

Great video. Your explanation helps me decide the to choose a mid-drive motor, thanks!

I have been pondering dual hub + mid drive on a stretch cruiser frame I bartered for. It can accept 26" x 4.0 wheels, I haven't messured the drop outs since I got it back in November but iirc the rear was 190mm. I will be building the bike for comfort and long distance trips. I have seen some people with the same battery pack getting more range when they went dual hub motors, so I hope you got your dual hub vs mid drive video done : )

Thank you for your knowledge and share! I have been looking into this and you convinced me! Thanks!

Thanks for the insight. I'm just starting to look into converting my bike.

Hey Johnny, thank you for the video! Lots of good points here. I've got a mechanical engineering degree and run an ebike shop that exclusively uses hub motors, so I have a different perspective (obviously!). I think you're mostly incorrect and I'll start with 3 points: reliability, aesthetics, and REGENERATIVE BRAKING! First, you already noted this, but hub motors do not cause broken spokes, and if you know how to properly build a wheel around a hub motor (low spoke angles/cross patterns, quality parts, spoke prep, and attention to detail is basically it!), you're golden. Additionally, hub motors have 0-1 stages of gear reduction, not the typical 2 of a mid drive (fewer parts to fail), and do not contribute to chain wear and breakage. Reliability goes to HUB MOTORS. Second, hub motors look great, smaller ones are super stealth, and it's possible to integrate a controller in a motor (like old BionX systems did) or, as we do, in the battery using a hub motor. So hub motors look better too - or at least, are comparable. THIRD: REGENERATIVE BRAKING! With the right motor and setup, you can recover 15% of your energy used in hilly areas, and more importantly not wear down your brake pads when you brake. It's awesome, you should try a proper high-torque regen ready hub motor some day (like the GMAC motor from Grin Tech paired with their Phaserunner).

I've got two bbshd 58v I built, one on a giant anthem 2 and one on a commencal meta hardtail. Love em, maintain them, 5000+miles no failures. Set up the hall sensor on left brake that acts like a clutch so your not applying power during shifts, shimano 11sp will last indefinitely if you change the chain at or before 0.75%stretch.

Really helpful since most of the reason I'm looking for an E-bike over a regular bike is because my town is very hilly. Anything to make my ability to get around easier. I know it will be hard on the motor either way, but motors can be replaced much more cheaply than my legs which are much closer to needing major surgery.

honestly I'm planning on upcycling old bikes into e-bikes and i love the idea of using hub motors for them. the majority of the market I'm planning on selling to cant afford mid drives. also i love the idea of setting up all wheel drive bikes. making some really fun off-roading possibilities for the kind of off-road i can still do with my shyte back.

I have had 3 mid drives and now have 4 hub drives ( I have built all of these) and I can tell you this opinion is somewhat misleading. All 3 of my mid drives failed; 2 mechanically and 1 controller. I then had huge issue on parts supply to try to fix these. I have done 28,000 miles on the hubs in the last 18 months with no issues whatsoever. Yes watch your spoke tension but after a number of tension adjustments this issue almost never surfaces again as the spokes then "settle". If you use your bike for transport (not off road as the rear axle weight is too great with the hub) then the hub motor is the Best choice. And if there was ever a major issue just buy another hub motor wheel for $200 and install. Saves all the expense of going to a bike shop too.

I saw your conversion from the Juiced Crosscurrent to a mid drive. Can you do a video on that or at least explain what you did - what mid-drive motor did you use and how complex was the rewiring? Did you just leave the disconnected hub-drive wheel in there or replace it? Thanks much!

Hi Johnny. Is there any future for a CVT type trans system for Ebikes? Similar to scooters. Would it be too heavy?

The whole video i disagreed with till the end which made it all make sense, 3,5,10kw motors are insane for speed

I've had both. I only use hub nowadays. Regen braking. Long chain life. Heaps of grunt. Hub is the shizzle

Thanks for your many videos, they are very educational. I'm a new subscriber. Question: How does battery performance vary with hub vs mid drive?

Great presentation, Johnny. Can one change a10 year old Pedego to mid-drive? Presently using a 15 Amp/ 48 volt battery.

My hub drive in conjunction with my 24 speed Shimano Gears (3 on the crank & 8 sprocket cassette) allows me to ride my bike like a bike NOT a motorcycle (I almost NEVER use the throttle feature) The reason I bought this setup is so I can get the exercise & not the bike. My daily street ride is 10-15 miles and only use 1-2 power level to assist me on hills that are approx 20% of ride. Utilizing the proper gearing allows me to consistently get 60-70 mile range, between charging, on my Ancheer Blue Spark w/36v/10.4Ah/350 Watt rear Hub motor. I think the most important feature on my bike are the HYDRAULIC disc brakes.

I have the hub drive and really enjoy it. When I priced out the hub drive, which came with the complete wheel, battery with built in controller and a display screen, The cost was half the price. check into the Dillenger off road deluxe kit.

Johnnynerdout can you look into the Honeywell El Capitan X and tell me what you think. Am I going to be happy with this bike performance-wise at 500w rear hub? Just ordered one :/ not sure now after watching this.

Nice video, in general I am more a fan of mid drives too, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the hub drive's regenerative ability; something a mid drive can't be set up for.

My wife's ebike has a 750 watt hub motor, mine has a 250 watt Bosch mid drive. Mine accelerates and climbs much better.

Was taught how to build wheels by Schwinn at the factory in the 80's. Building a wheel is a piece of cake!

All my research on you tube points to your videos. Very informative. Well done and I thanks a lot. If I run into a problem for my conversions can I call you? Yes I am expecting a fee!

Which would be better for a trike? Would the mid driver still work on it? I am a heavy set guy with balance issues, but would love to use an electric bike to get around. I am thinking of trying to get a normal trike frame and converting it to a recline bike. Basically, it would just be one turned around and having a different type of steering connected to the wheel. I would have to mount a new place for the pedals. I have knee issues and getting on and off a low slung bike would be hard.

Not tried a mid-drive but very happy with my hub drive, assist only (UK) Absolutely no trouble with varied terrain (hills, valleys, on my commute) I have had the chain come off when I was starting out, over bumps, but that was probably more how I was riding it, I would stop peddling when hitting a bump but through cycling confidence, I don't anymore.

Have been working on a bicycle shop as well. We sold many mids and hubs. The reliability- you don't mention the effort and cost of fixing a mid that has worn out bearings and gearing system parts. That's why I run a hub motor.

Hello JohnnyNerdOut, I added an ebike conversion kit to a tandem. It has a front hub motor. The front drive gear is on the left side and connects to the rear hub for the second rider. The front hub is in an elliptical device to allow for tensioning the chain between the two sets of pedals. Are there kits out there that could have worked to use a mid drive for this application?

I agree 100% I did my wife's mountain bike and mine we both have front and rear suspension and tons of power I had to go to a 38 front tooth drive gear because the 44 was waaaay to fast, with my 38 I still get 44 Km on gravel road. but climb!!! OMG , gear down and crank the power up to 5 or 6 and you can climb walls. Forget the Hub drive nonsense. My kit was a BFANG everything was supplied . Love it. I did both bikes with a 11AMhr batt for $1500 CND $ 750 WATT.

Geared hub, direct drive hub, front or rear drive, mid drive. No one type outdoes all the others. Each is the best at something. So choose what suits the most of your riding.

I have to admit, I didn't put much stock in mid-drives, until I had a chance to try (at an ebike rental shop) several hub and mid-drive 1000w bikes, while I was selecting which one I wanted. Holy crap the difference in torque is just... insane. There was this inclined driveway (at least 30 degrees) to the shop (a good place to test the bike's climbing power), and with my 120 kilos, even geared 1000w hub motors REALLY struggled to get me up on torque alone. They managed, but at a crawl, something like 8 kph. The single gearless one I tried couldn't even move. The mid-drive - I just shifted to the 3rd lowest gear, and it powered up the driveway effortlessly. Jeezus. With my delivery-job, and the hilly areas I sometimes have to traverse, it was a no-brainer for me to choose the mid-drive one. Now yes, it takes a bit more thinking to drive (I have to remember to downshift on every stoplight), but - that torque. I'm in love.

Thank you for your honesty, and experience. Looking forward to more great content in future 👏 👍

I've ridden my hub motor for about 1000m and I've not had any of the issues you mention. I'm going to try a mid drive anyway but I'm not sure you are correct about the reliability issues of hub motors.

If you want more low end torque with the hub drive, just simply peddle with your motor during acceleration.

I am a senior and I like my hub motor with throttle, I don't have to pedal at all

for the mid drive motor, im planning to use one meant for a gocart and using my 7 speed transmission on my bike to boost it's speed, but i want to keep the peddles, is there a freewheel conversion part for the front crank?

Hi Johnny, I have the 750 middrive Bafang and there's something wrong with it. It slips when I first start to paddle. I think the clutch is the problem. If that is right, is it hard to replace the clutch and where can I get the parts for it? Thank you!

Great info. How does regenerative braking figure in your considerations?

I think I'll go with mid drive. Just gonna wait couple months for price drop promotion. I like being quiet, stelt and more efficient. You don't have drag when you pedal only. It can't overheat. You can climb hills. Also you are lighter with couple kg or so. Only downside is snapping chain and price, but just be little careful and you will be fine.

I bought a yamee fat bear 750 because I wanted a folding fat bike with that ipas regeneration. I got a 750 mid drive for free which I put on the yamee and it actually regens while I pedal with the mid drive. It's an electric /electric hybrid and getting almost double the range from one battery. But the weight is excessive. Great video!

I have hub motor 1000w. Controller built in. Downside is I had to file the dropouts on the bike, a rear puncture is a bch. Pros, it has a throttle, I don't even peddle to work. Goes thirty miles an hour and if I peddle to get it up to speed it's faster than the average car off the mark. I can ride on the tow paths along the canals. It's basically an illegal moped with no tax or fuel costs.. But I agree with the video, stop start riding has big wear on these motors. If you're cruising for miles they're fine. But urban rides I'd like a mid drive in future. Awesome video. A lot of info delivered really well. You got a great talent.

I am so glad I have a hub motor, was approx 10 miles from home on my last ride out and my chain snapped and was not able to repair it there and then but still got home using the hub motor. would have this been possible with a mid drive motor ?

I chose hub drive as I hate chain drive! If I had a belt drive then I be more for it. Also cars as an analogy would have to include another motor cuz that is how you make a hub last longer is to help it take off and climb steep hills by pedaling.

Thanks for lots of info! Very informative. Saw yr video on brands too. Yr 2 for 2. 👍 I'll be looking for yr future videos.

Thanks man I'm going to go this route now. Glad I heard this video

From the start I've always like Mid drive over Hub drive. The reason for this was that if you damage your wheels you can always get better wheels and even run a different size like from 29er to 27.5 without really worrying about the drive. But with a hub drive you have to really get the motor or wheel repaired and that takes time and money. And deep down will you be happy with that large lump of metal in the middle of your wheel? That's why a lot of proper mtb's use mid drive over hub drive. And it's more of the balance of the bike. Better to have the motor in the middle and low down then to have it in the wheel. But yeah it's true what you said about the spokes it kinda makes sense now. I think hub drive is only good if you live in a country that is flat without any hills like Holland where is pretty flat. But for me I would still run a mid drive any day. I have my eye on a Nukeproof Megawatt just waiting for it to drop in price because right now you can buy a car for less.

I started on high torque , geared hub drives and moved on to a mid drive. The middy has its advantages, but overall the downsides have pushed me back to hubs. Endless, one gear power, no drivetrain wear or horrendous banging and crunching. You can change gear under load..you can get home if the chain snaps.

Thanks for the best video I've seen online on both types of motors. I was going to purchase the Willier Filante Hybrid road bike with a rear hub motor but decided my need for a touring bike made me rethink my purchase. I decided to go with the Specialized 2024 Creo 2 road bike with a mid drive motor with touring attatchement points for racks and panniers. The price point was slightly less for a bike that meets my two needs. I've done over 100.000kms over the last twenty years on my own power but time to take some of the stress off my body to enjoy the ride with more ease being a woman in her sixties. Trying to convince my partner to upgrade our co-motion tandem to make riding easier but he's not there yet! Lol 😊

Would there be any performance benifit of putting a hub and mid drive on a bike?

Thoughts on the hub motored Metacycle from sondors?

As far as “transmitting power through the spokes”, that is EXACTLY THE SAME for mid-drive motors. Do you even Physics, bro? In fact, you just got done telling us that mid-drive motors have higher torque, so mid-drive motors are *even harder* on spokes than hub motors!

what would you recommend for a 29inch genesis incline, for the cheapest option doing lots of hill climbs, wanting to buy an e bike but they are so dang expensive, figure converting my current bike will be a better option