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Hugh Nibley on the book Enoch

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FAIR - Faithful Answers, Informed Response

FAIR - Faithful Answers, Informed Response

Күн бұрын

What Did Hugh Nibley Have to Say About the LDS Enoch and the AramaicBook of the Giants?An Old Testament KnoWhyi for Gospel Doctrine Lesson 5: “If Thou Doest Well, ThouShalt Be Accepted” (Moses 5-7) (JBOTL05D)Question: What did Hugh Nibley have to say after having compared the LDS Enoch (Moses 6-7) and ancient Enoch manuscripts, in particular the Qumran Book of the Giants?Summary: Although an English translation of the Ethiopian book of 1 Enoch appeared in 1821, the ancient manuscripts that are most relevant to the LDS story of Enoch were not available during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. The Qumran Book of Giants, discovered in 1948, contains striking resemblances to Moses 6-7, ranging from general themes in the story line to specific occurrences of rare expressions in corresponding contexts. In this video, Hugh Nibley discusses several of these resemblances. Significantly, he also discusses his ineractions with Matthew Black, a translator of the Book of the Giants, when the latter visited BYU (see 6:04-6:50 in the video).The comments by Nibley are excerpted from a FARMS videocassette entitled “The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Era Dawns.” It contains material recorded in connection with a National Interfaith Conference on the Dead Sea Scrolls, 20 November 1992 in the Kresge Auditorium of Stanford University.In seeking explicit permission for posting this video from Brigham Young University, I was advised that there the copyright ownership of FARMS materials is currently uncertain. However, we have determined that there are reasonable grounds to post this excerpt under the provisions of Fair Use.Thanks to Stephen T. Whitlock for digitizing this excerpt and making it available for posting.

Пікірлер: 112
@jenridge7768
@jenridge7768 3 жыл бұрын
Hugh Nibley was my dad's professor in college in the 60s. He has almost all his books. The only thing I wanted when my dad passed in 2017, was his book collection. I'm 45, and have an intellectual/spiritual/esoteric brain combo...but it will take me until my own death to understand half of those books in his collection. Hugh Nibley was a genius mind.
@ourlifeinwashington4114
@ourlifeinwashington4114 5 жыл бұрын
My great great grandfather saw Joseph Smith preach and he said his face shown light from inside out, a beautiful glow. He said there was no doubt that this man was a Prophet of God. My Grandfather was Peter Maughan and William Maughan temple builders and Bishops of Wellsville and The Cache Valley.
@birgitsvarrelarsen3438
@birgitsvarrelarsen3438 4 жыл бұрын
2 Corinthians 11:14 King James Version (KJV) 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
@rokitman5753
@rokitman5753 4 жыл бұрын
Satan is the prince of this world he fakes like cnn
4 жыл бұрын
If that be the case, then it's best to trample the earth and incinerate all copies of the Bible which have documented these words: Galatians 1:6-9 King James Version (KJV) 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
@huntermorrill2194
@huntermorrill2194 4 жыл бұрын
Aquarian Aged7 in no way is this gospel of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a different gospel than the one taught in the Bible but rather a continuation of that same gospel and proof that God is still guiding His church through His prophets on the earth just as He promised he would do.
@markmcgowan8935
@markmcgowan8935 4 жыл бұрын
You have been deceived greatly.
@tradehead
@tradehead 4 жыл бұрын
George MacRae, former dean of the Harvard Divinity School, heard Hugh expound lengthily on a Greek text without notes including sporadically quoting thirty lines of the original, for which MacCrae covered his face and confessed- "It is obscene for a man to know that much".
@ruexcited2WholeHearted
@ruexcited2WholeHearted 3 жыл бұрын
Listening to this brought the very same incident to my mind. What an amazing intellect!
@jenridge7768
@jenridge7768 3 жыл бұрын
Hugh Nibley was my dad's professor at BYU in the 1960s. Nibley is the reason my dad chose to study (minor) in archeology
@abctx5
@abctx5 4 жыл бұрын
The Book of Enoch was printed in the Ensign in 12 parts from 1975 - 1977
@hillsofappalachia
@hillsofappalachia 3 жыл бұрын
@völgyes István Even cooler :)
@theelisan30
@theelisan30 5 ай бұрын
What month were those ? Thanks
@theesotericluna
@theesotericluna 6 жыл бұрын
I have always wanted to know about this! Thank you so much for posting!!
@arnelsantomin1782
@arnelsantomin1782 5 жыл бұрын
It is better to belief about the revealed truth rather than discredit them.... Its help me to expand my memory. Thanks for this video.
@MountainDewComacho494
@MountainDewComacho494 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting. I would also love to see more on this.
@zebiraross
@zebiraross 3 жыл бұрын
Joseph version so close to 1950 dead sea scrolls. No way Joseph could have copied that! Like he says at the end with a grin "just coincidence..."
@vincentsheridan284
@vincentsheridan284 13 күн бұрын
Question for Mormons..... In the Book of Mormon, the great battle that is written, hundreds of thousands of warriors with chariots ( no horses were in North America at this time, and warriors replete with shields, swords, and armor were slain on the battlefield. Why has none of them ever been found? In 9Ad 3 Roman Legions were ambushed by Germanic tribes, and lost in the deep forests to history, until NASA satellites photographed their remains recently.
@EMonzon
@EMonzon 5 жыл бұрын
A pearl of a video, thank you! Joseph Smith was indeed a seer and a prophet, a man out of his time.
@stevenbrown7852
@stevenbrown7852 4 жыл бұрын
The giants inquired Enoch to ask God to forgive them but God said to him their hearts are deceitful and not repentful.
@discoqueenmom
@discoqueenmom 6 жыл бұрын
I would love to see more on this topic. I felt like 9mins wasn't enough. I also would like to know what there thoughts are on concerning the Giants and fallen angels etc.
@karlshaner2453
@karlshaner2453 6 жыл бұрын
So Joseph Smith Jr. wrote a story of a man not known in the world until 1950? Interesting.
@Wonderboywonderings
@Wonderboywonderings 4 жыл бұрын
Like a single sentence, right? That makes Enoch a man unknown.
@some_old_guy1976
@some_old_guy1976 4 жыл бұрын
The angels, no sooner had they rebelled against God and descended to earth than they lost their transcendental qualities, and were invested with sublunary bodies, so that a union with the daughters of men became possible. The offspring of these alliances between the angels and the Cainite women were the giants, known for their strength and their sinfulness; as their very name, the Emim, indicates, they inspired fear. They have many other names. Sometimes they go by the name Rephaim, because one glance at them made one's heart grow weak; or by the name Gibborim, simply giants, because their size was so enormous that their thigh measured eighteen ells; or by the name Zamzummim, because they were great masters in war; or by the name Anakim, because they touched the sun with their neck; or by the name Ivvim, because, like the snake, they could judge of the qualities of the soil; or finally, by the name Nephilim, because, bringing the world to its fall, they themselves fell.
@benjaminfalzon4622
@benjaminfalzon4622 4 жыл бұрын
The way I understand it, Satan fallen angels, and the 200 angels mentioned in the book of Enoch are completely two different groups. God gave Lucifer one-third of his angels and placed them on earth, but Lucifer wanted more. Lucifer and his angels ascended to heaven Isiah 14: 12-14. and there was war in heaven Rev12:7-9 "In Isiah 14: 12-14. Satan was still called Lucifer". "Only after the war in heaven Rev 12:7-9 his name was changed to Satan". Satan and his angels were cast out from heaven down to earth. But, the 200 fallen angels in the book of Enoch weren't cast out from heaven at all, they willingly descended from heaven down to earth because they lusted after mortal women, which resulted in the birth of the Nephilim. Also, I think, that there might be a clue about the origins of the dinosaurs. {The book of Enoch says, that they've sinned against Birds, Beasts, Reptiles, and Fish}...The questions are, did the 200 angels also created the dinosaurs by mixing genetics unknown to modern science to this today, with creatures that were already created by God? Did the angels who fathered the Nephilim, also create the dinosaurs? Personally, I do believe that that was the case.
@jameswilliamson8758
@jameswilliamson8758 4 жыл бұрын
@@benjaminfalzon4622 ty for that I thought same thing about the dinosaur I've not completely read the book of Enoch but that was my theory to
@protochris
@protochris Жыл бұрын
The Book of Enoch was well known in the United States in the 1820's, prior to the publication of the BoM. Lord Byron's commentary was published in Philadelphia newspapers in 1825.
@Nick-zb4bp
@Nick-zb4bp 4 ай бұрын
This is a lie.
@Seraphim-Hamilton
@Seraphim-Hamilton 5 жыл бұрын
Since Nibley's time, there has been some new scholarship questioning his skepticism about whether Joseph Smith could have had access to the Enochic literature. There has been a lot of good historical work done on the nature of the book trade in the early 19th century, most LDS scholars seem to me to be working with an outdated understanding of it. Salvatore Cirillo did an MA thesis on the relationship of Joseph Smith and the Enochic material. As far as the person "Mahijah" goes, I'd say the likeliest source for the personal name is in the "Malchijah" mentioned in the genealogies of Chronicles and then again in Ezra and Nehemiah. I don't have a defniitive view of whether Joseph Smith was intentionally fabricating texts like the Book of Moses, but if I were writing a text in biblical-style, the first place I'd go for names is 1 Chronicles 1-10, since there is such an abundance and variety of personal names,. Of course, this isn't intended as proof that Joseph Smith was not a prophet or a refutation of the Book of Moses. Rather, it's meant to show that if one is not otherwise convinced of Joseph Smith's prophetic calling, there are plausible explanations for how he arrived at the name "Mahijah."
@artheis1342
@artheis1342 5 жыл бұрын
In this world you can explain away anything, even the truth.
@Seraphim-Hamilton
@Seraphim-Hamilton 5 жыл бұрын
@@artheis1342 Whether or not the LDS Church is true doesn't have anything to do with whether this argument for it is true. Nibley's argument depends on Joseph Smith not having access to these traditions about Enoch. Nibley was a genius, and an excellent scholar, but we continue to gain new knowledge. In this case (and I would suggest other cases), our increasing knowledge about the world of the 19th century has undermined Nibley's argument here.
@Nick-zb4bp
@Nick-zb4bp 5 жыл бұрын
Lots of emmy claims by you.
@jerryvennerholm
@jerryvennerholm Жыл бұрын
So, you're saying that Joseph chose a random name from the Bible - which mentions 3000+ names - and that name turns out by pure coincidence to be somewhat similar to what was found 120 years after the Bok of Moses was written? What are the odds?
@Nick-zb4bp
@Nick-zb4bp 4 ай бұрын
There is nothing near a consensus that Joseph had access to this. Nice try.
@newfound_adventures
@newfound_adventures 6 жыл бұрын
Parts of what you say is genius. Your very smart.
@donnavaughn9409
@donnavaughn9409 5 жыл бұрын
nibley passed away
@gertvanpeet3120
@gertvanpeet3120 4 жыл бұрын
The first part of Enoch...book of the giants, was found in turfan, China before the findings of the dead sea Scrolls...see Them in Berlin museum...
@crystaldawn9255
@crystaldawn9255 Жыл бұрын
He knows it's more than a coincidence
@jasonwilliams4524
@jasonwilliams4524 4 жыл бұрын
How would this book of enoch be in the bible
@kumotsu01
@kumotsu01 21 күн бұрын
How would it? Well, it should be…
@rockyofusa1
@rockyofusa1 4 жыл бұрын
I am nothing more than a seeker, blind in the ways of the ACT, stumbling and bungling to be a seeker always. are you a seeker too? 4:38 - "written by Enoch in his own scribe" (handwriting.) 1821 the first time the book of Enoch was translated - was the translation from the Ethiopian book or dead sea collection? hmm... Ethiopia is very near where Biblical scholars place the garden of Eden. In Ethiopia Enoch books were taught, just as sunday schools now teaches the canonized (approved books included in the Bible - the books they had approved by the deadline King James had set, many book were not included because of the deadline that was set, not because of any other reason AT THAT TIME.) Enoch scroll was found in the dead sea scroll collection, around 1950's. Further validating (I believe) their authentication. But it is up to each of us to be seekers of the truth and the light. As we enter into what I personally think is the time of the end, I think understanding these books of Enoch (which are as many as probably the whole New Testament , and that's why they probably were not included to go into the Bible ordered by King James, the deadline was too restricted.) You see Enoch tells us of each of the teachings of the fallen Angels that were said to be evil deeds, and which of the lead fallen Angels taught them, (clearly the Fallen Angels knew that once ACT (Almighty Creator Trinity who's true name I am not worthy to speak or write,) saw that the fallen Angels had left their first estate (the realm of ACT and heaven,) and cause mankind to sin, and took (not were given but took,) women all of whom they wished, and had children that were Giants, of course if your a Giant you would be well known by humans (comparatively speaking "the little people.") Your reputation would be well known for your good and your Evil, right? "3 thousand ells in height" but let's say it is only 300 ells or 450 feet tall (before the Flood. were these the Greek Mount Olympian gods? hmmm.) You will find that these sons of the Fallen Angels and daughters of men, whose Names were never written in the book of life because they were never meant to exist, are at their deaths evil demons, searching for anyway to inhabit a life-form, they are what tries to possess any living body like man and in the case of the swine that Jesus cast them into (and out of that of a man.) Or like the Jinn that took possession of Muhammad by Muhammad's own admission. And by trickery of the Jinn, Muhammad thought he was no longer possessed but you can tell he was possessed from that first day unto his last. What sins was man taught that would have influenced enough followers AGAINST ACT as to want to build the tower (later called the Tower of Babel) meant to reach into heaven so that they could overthrow ACT? These sins the fallen ones taught man must be pretty powerful, like the casting of spells but not only that. Seek so you avoid the sins that lead to the trickery of men, that sought to take on ACT at Babel.
@JohnDoe-yz1uf
@JohnDoe-yz1uf 4 жыл бұрын
rockyofusa1 what’s the best book to get to read up on this?
@rockyofusa1
@rockyofusa1 4 жыл бұрын
@@JohnDoe-yz1uf futurerevealed.com/enoch/The-Book-of-Enoch-the-Ethiopian-Enoch.pdf
@JohnDoe-yz1uf
@JohnDoe-yz1uf 4 жыл бұрын
rockyofusa1 whoa!Lol you da best! thanks
@jasonwilliams4524
@jasonwilliams4524 4 жыл бұрын
Should be there
@cloudleopard7695
@cloudleopard7695 4 жыл бұрын
he book of Enoch is a Pseudepigrapha ! 100 percent fact !!!
@bircruz555
@bircruz555 4 жыл бұрын
You miss the point. The seeker of Truth makes no distinction between canon and apocrypha. Only faith demands that. Ancient books were products of the human mind, and they count equally.
@jasonwilliams4524
@jasonwilliams4524 4 жыл бұрын
Catholic beliefs are different
@teoethio
@teoethio 5 жыл бұрын
The oldest and full one is the Ethiopian book of Enoch written in the Geez language . you are misleading people. There is no Greek version at all.
@ej3382
@ej3382 5 жыл бұрын
There are snippets in Latin. I feel the main point of any religious text is to bring the reader closer to the Divine. So let's not strain at a gnat only to swallow a camel
@ej3382
@ej3382 5 жыл бұрын
And Ge'ez is supposedly, historically still a Semitic language, so the Hebrew text is also valid
@richardwhite6062
@richardwhite6062 5 жыл бұрын
I thought that was only 1500 years old and a false claim?
@soli7289
@soli7289 4 жыл бұрын
teoethio true!!!
4 жыл бұрын
Mormons have mentioned that an Ethiopian is under the curse of God !! Racism is at the root of their teachings. An Ethiopian is Black and cursed. Joseph Smith was greater than "Jesus" - listen to him alone !!
@bircruz555
@bircruz555 4 жыл бұрын
Hugh Nibley overplays and dramatizes how Bishop Lawrence's translation of the Book of Enoch was ill received. He paints a distorted picture. The contention revolved around whether the book is canon or apocrypha, not the translation itself. How many Europeans would have had a commanding knowledge of Ethiopic (Ge'ez) and English in the 1820s to count as worthy critics?
@manchildministries
@manchildministries 3 жыл бұрын
We know the “Book of Enoch” is a fraud and not written by Enoch. (Please note: Enoch is the great-grandfather of Noah . . . . Enoch >> Methuselah >> Lamech >> Noah): 1. Enoch was taken by God to heaven before Noah was born. (Study Gen 5 and do some math.) 2. The “Book of Enoch” records conversations between Noah and angels on how to build the ark. Enoch wasn’t present to witness nor record such conversations. (Remember: Enoch taken by God before Noah was born.) 3. The “Book of Enoch” records events that happened during the flood on the ark. Enoch wasn’t on the ark. 4. The “Book of Enoch” says angels built the ark. The Bible says Noah built the ark. 5. The “Book of Enoch” speaks of Mt. Sinai. There was no Mt. Sinai at the time of Enoch or Noah because there were no mountains. Mt. Sinai probably wasn’t even named until hundreds of years after Nimrod/Babel. Yet the “Book of Enoch” names Mt. Sinai by name. 6. The “Book of Enoch” attempts to reveal that Enoch was taken to heaven and told that he would be the Messiah, the savior of mankind. (What ? ? ? ? ! ! ! ! !) 7. The “Book of Enoch” speaks of giants (hybrid-humans) that were 450 feet tall. These giants apparently ate regular humans. 8. The “Book of Enoch” was first recovered around 200 years before Christ. It was written in an Ethiopian dialect, not Hebrew, not Arabic or anything that would be close to Noah-dialect. The New Testament book of Jude does not quote the “Book of Enoch.” It quotes the book of Genesis and prophetic quotes by Enoch that had been passed on through Noah, through the generations by means of oral tradition. The “Book of Enoch” is not from God. But feel free to adorn your faith and belief system founded on the insanity pointed out above (and more) . . . if you feel so illuminated by the one who comes as an angel of illumination. Be it far from me to get in the way of anyone’s ascension to a higher plain of enlightenment. (Ya, I’m contending that the “Book of Enoch” is from the other guy; not from God.) PS. . . . There are multiple KZfaqs revealing this AntiChrist book and the many problems that expose it to be a fraud. People would do well to find them.
@josephlynch4047
@josephlynch4047 3 жыл бұрын
You have a limited understanding and background on what our beliefs are, as is exposed in your statement. I don't expect you to understand what I meant either but I'll give it a shot (just for fun). 😉
@ChristianAuditore14
@ChristianAuditore14 3 жыл бұрын
Read the book of enoch from the lds church...
@SnowAngelfish
@SnowAngelfish 7 ай бұрын
You may be right. I have had my doubts also about the book. The fallen angel stuff and offspring with mortal women is not consistent with the clarifications of Genesis 6 found in the Book of Moses. However, finding the dead sea scroll fragments of the text is interesting but may just show that the fraud went back further than expected.
@jasonwilliams4524
@jasonwilliams4524 4 жыл бұрын
The book of watches nephalim, the bible in genesis only mentions them as the men of fame
@aggie427
@aggie427 4 жыл бұрын
In LDS secret society the Rodmen didn't Joseph Smith call himself Enoch?
@wendyatwood2290
@wendyatwood2290 4 жыл бұрын
no
@wendyatwood2290
@wendyatwood2290 4 жыл бұрын
not so
@aggie427
@aggie427 4 жыл бұрын
@@wendyatwood2290 Do you know about the Rodmen?
@elizabethfegurgur4532
@elizabethfegurgur4532 4 жыл бұрын
Incite The Millennium Rodmen?
@signedupfordoconly4275
@signedupfordoconly4275 3 жыл бұрын
@@aggie427 I googled rodmen and didn’t get anything. Can you link anything I can read?
@jasonwilliams4524
@jasonwilliams4524 4 жыл бұрын
The book of enoch is not in the bible, so I reckon alot of religious things are hidden or falsified, my opinion only
@jasonwilliams4524
@jasonwilliams4524 4 жыл бұрын
Not in the bible
@gertvanpeet3120
@gertvanpeet3120 4 жыл бұрын
What bible? In the russian orthodox , in Ethiopia IT is, and so on!
@chewybaddog6061
@chewybaddog6061 3 жыл бұрын
I don't believe in The Book of Enoch. It's not in Bible
@emmanuelsson7941
@emmanuelsson7941 4 жыл бұрын
This man seems like a nice guy. Its too bad that he believes the books Joseph smith wrote.
@emmanuelsson7941
@emmanuelsson7941 4 жыл бұрын
@b j Has it changed your life for the better man? :) Honestly look--here's the thing. I don't doubt it might have cleaned some people up from drugs or helped them have a family or whatever but that doesn't make them alive. Without the Gospel of Jesus according to the scripture of the Bible alone you are dead spiritually. So no matter how beautiful a religion looks it is still dead on the inside without the healing power of the blood of Jesus that washes away all your wicked ways and sins. I hope that makes things clear bro. :)
@jaket5751
@jaket5751 4 жыл бұрын
@@emmanuelsson7941 What is your idea of the Bible? Canon alone? Why?
4 жыл бұрын
@Love Only Yeah.....if your Black your "Cursed" !! It definitely gives a psychological negative boost to an enslaved and oppressed MIND !!
@SnowAngelfish
@SnowAngelfish 7 ай бұрын
Why is it too bad? Thats the reason hes so smart and enlightened and you're not.
@saintg4fun829
@saintg4fun829 6 жыл бұрын
9 minutes of incoherent utter psycho-babbling. lol!
@dr.joshaxe1251
@dr.joshaxe1251 6 жыл бұрын
Saintg 4fun i jnow it can feel that way when you have tertiary neurospyhillus (as most exmormons do)
@dr.joshaxe1251
@dr.joshaxe1251 6 жыл бұрын
thats a very big word. anti mormons are getting smarter everyday
@TheRealDonLayton
@TheRealDonLayton 5 жыл бұрын
It would have been easier if you had just admitted that it was way over your head.
@donnavaughn9409
@donnavaughn9409 5 жыл бұрын
he spoke too fast for you right, I know what you mean, it's hard for me to keep also, and because of that you give a negative remark
@artheis1342
@artheis1342 5 жыл бұрын
Well listen with your spiritual ears and you will understand.
@bryanfrombuffalo7685
@bryanfrombuffalo7685 4 жыл бұрын
I debunked Mormonism in 3 min...god n Jesus never appeared together anywhere in the bible at the same time...but they went to ny dairy country
@jaket5751
@jaket5751 4 жыл бұрын
Ah, what did Joseph say? Joseph never claimed to see both here on this Earth. There are multiple accounts given of his vision. One, ONE is written by him. The others are fabrications. I believe you are right, the Father doesn't come to this Earth. Mormonism is worthy of more study than that(not sayings it's "true", it has truth, and error. It's up to you to study it out).
4 жыл бұрын
Now, I know why many are leaving in droves today. Truth would always overcome falsehood !!
@ChristianAuditore14
@ChristianAuditore14 3 жыл бұрын
They literally did...
@ChristianAuditore14
@ChristianAuditore14 3 жыл бұрын
@@jaket5751 all versions are true but told at different times with different details
@adoseofcare
@adoseofcare 3 жыл бұрын
What about in Matthew 3:16 when Jesus was baptized and it states that "the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God" ?
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