Short story, there is no substitute for an open fire, especially when replicating ancient pottery that was fired that way. Onward and upward. If you want to learn more about open firing pottery here is a playlist of videos on that subject kzfaq.info/sun/PLxjk09ZJzrlsyEo-ickFHnMDwQBT1HP5b

Kiln, you're fired.

I find these “fails” to be valuable, extremely valuable. I’m also grateful that you are humble enough to post these failures. You remind me of Thomas Edison searching for the ideal light bulb filament ( the little metal wire inside the glass light bulb that makes the light). Edison tried about 1,000 different setups before he found “the one”. He said the first 999 times he learned what not to do. They were not failures, just steps towards success. So thanks to you and Edison and the early potters, all. And last seeing the flops conditions us for failure when we have ‘um. Sincerely, Pete

Hi Andy. I’m from Australia and have been watching your videos for about 4 months now. I love them, although I’m not a potter. I particularly enjoy your honesty: the successes and the failures. You present your creations warts and all, and that’s why I continue to watch your videos. As an aside I have a good friend in Melbourne here who is the spitting image of you, although he is a little older. He is a jazz musician and you would pass as brothers! Thanks once again for sharing your unique talent. I deeply appreciate it.

If you want to try one last thing before you dismantle it, you could try using a pipe to get some fresh air right below the pottery, because the fresh air would be heated by the flames but not as much as if it was mixed into the flames, which would help lower the temperature in the middle of the pottery pile, and it would also add more oxygen to avoid the reduction atmosphere. You might have to experiment with a few different pipe diameters, to find one which doesn't add so much fresh air that the temperature drops significantly, but also doesn't add so little that it doesn't really change much. For conventional kilns, you would need a dakota fireplace (without the fire) with a raised inner chimney which to get closer to the pottery, and between that inner chimney and the intake of the dakota fireplace you need to have both the kiln walls and some room for fuel to be placed and burn, but this could be done by the natives, even though I don't know if it was used for something like that.

Not sure if you'll read this since this video is over a year old and you've probably moved on with this type of kiln, but your comment towards the end about using a brick enclosure instead of a mortar-sealed kiln is probably right on point. Over at the "Primitive Technology" channel, when he built his brick kiln, he never sealed the gaps between his bricks with mud either. True, he used quite a lot of wood but I think the extra gaps allowed more oxygen to come in. The inside of his kilns are never black or discolored and his pots and bricks are always red.

I’m not a potter and I’m new to your channel, but I’m loving the sheer depth of this world that you open up here. The fact that some folks use a lion and you use open fires, glazes versus painting, coiling versus throwing versus paddles, it’s all so fascinating to me. Your style is very honest and pleasant too. Thanks for sharing your corner of humanity to the world!

Hey Andy, I actually love the patina you achieved ! Re the firing of that updraft kiln I would definitely not cover the pottery with those sherds, that will create different temperatures and play with the atmosphere... I would also cut the wood smaller and have a longer wood feed. Nice video, Cheers

Good to know. The analysis was thorough.

I think if oxidation is what you’re looking for, then you’re going to have to build a kiln that allows the heat and air to draft across the pottery. You’re getting reduction from that kind of build. You would need a kiln with a firebox in the front, a chamber for the pots, and a draft chimney at the back. Optimally, some vent holes that you could open and shut to control oxygen and temperature would also help.

Out with the old and in with the new!

My son and I came to the same conclusion in the past few weeks. Last summer we built a kiln after your example but have decided that, since Ohio pottery would not have been done like this, we're gonna do it the way they did it; pre-heat and pit fire. We are also letting go of painting pottery and will focus more on construction of the pots following traditional designs. I think I'll try to do more pipes as well. Thank you for another great video and glad we are still on the same wave length.

Nice experiment. Very educational, thanks.

I am thinking the opposite. What if your thermacouple is hotter than everything else? The heat getting radiated off the bricks is transfering to the air, and that hole is sucking more oxygen and reburning the fuels that didn't burn properly from the opening.

I learned a lot from this. I didn't know what too hot looked like. It's good to know what doesn't work. I'll be looking forward to seeing your next setup. 😊

I guess I will say thanks for saving me the trouble!

I just discovered your channel a few days ago when looking for primitive firing ideas and I was all set to build my own little kiln, modeled on this one. Imagine my surprise when I opened up YT this morning and this video was the first suggestion on my list. Talk about timely information! I have really enjoyed watching and learning from your videos and I really appreciate your honest assessment of this kiln. I used to own a studio in Chandler years ago and have really been itching to get back to playing in the mud, but now I live on an island with no access to a kiln, and even though I have reached out to the community on several occasions to see if a private artist would let me pay for a little kiln space, I have had no luck finding anyone willing to do that. I am going to look at the other gentleman's kiln which you mention in this video and have a go at that one as soon as our burn ban has been lifted. Thank you, again, for sharing your valuable knowledge!

I was having similar issues with this type kiln. (Mostly mine was cracking 9 out of 10 pots) I switched to Steve Mills Philosopher’s Kiln. The way I set mine up, the fire does not touch the pottery and it is pure convection heat. No direct heat. I don’t know if this was done in the Primitive South West, I think it is more colonial or English style. With this style the cracking is minimal, about 1 out of 10 and the color is much more consistent. Also, I am making small adjustment with every firing. At this point I am close to glazing temps.

Not that I'm an expert by any means, but from what I've learned about reduction firing both from the experts and my own experiences with gas I would hazard to speculate that there's not enough air circulation around the pots to feed the fuel. Maybe it's a question of pacing the fuel more...? Just thinking out loud. Thank you for sharing this, always something to learn.

Sayonara old kiln. Glad you posted this before I imitated it.

I hope you continue to make videos for this playlist. I'm curious to see where you go next with these kilns. I'm thinking of trying to do this. Fantastic information! Thanks for putting these videos out!

This was a great follow-up. Thank you.

Thank you for the informative video

AS I see it his reflects the difference between a pyrometer and infrared gun when using wood heat. The cover sherds retain the heat locally and a range of temperature in the kiln is to be expected. I have built a cross flow with a chimney to avoid to use of cover sherds. Cheers

Well your original kiln video (with this kiln) was my first video of yours that I watched and why I joined your channel originally. And why I built a nearly identical kiln to yours. I have already modified it by extending the front by another brick. From my memory of your earlier firings with this kiln you had less items in it and no cover sherds. I think that was part of your problem that you had it overfilled and over covered. I hope your next kiln pleases you more.

I'm looking forward to version 5.0. It would be interesting to know how hot it really got but it probably explains why the glaze was so good. There's always more to learn. Thank you.

My guess, red slip iron is partially reducing to maghemitite . Sure would love some of that white clay that crackled !

Cool video this is why I didn't fire my pottery like this most of the time I get cracking

Thank you so much. This was very informative to me. I'm trying hard to understand all this.

If I made this mug in some bricks in my back yard I'd be so stoked... :D

I like everything that came out of your kiln. They look awesome!!

I’m so sorry to hear you’re giving up on this effort. Thank you for all of your experience and insights. Greatly appreciate your videos.

Thank you for sharing.

Absolutely love your videos.

Beautiful results IMO.

When you press the wood deeper in the kiln you are effectively turning parts of the wood into charcoal before burning it due to the firebox fire using all the oxygen. Therefore increasing the temperature

excellent - thank you

No.!.what a shame , all the effort you have put into it, but if the results are not what your expecting,move on ..hard decision but the right one. Good timing on the video as i was on the verge of building one myself. But im having good results in my Soares style open brick kiln, sometimes i use charcoal /wood mix or just charcoal.With a bucket or cover sherds. Also make a tee pee arrangement like surface fire inside , just keeps all the wood in place .And adjust the height and spacing for air gaps when ever so very adaptable..if you want more or less oxidization ..One more option is to easy dismantle in winter ...been great to watch your progress

I love your videos. Very informative. And you are the first American that consistently uses celsius which is so nice 😊😊😊

And I was thinking of two things as you were stoking the fire, that cheap-looking pine wood (leftovers from something) and the placement of the temperature gauge. With you mentioning the unevenness of measureing temp., perhaps it would prove beneficial to have two temp. gauges, one in the middle and one in the outer circle. And the wood did not seem ripe- if the burning atmosphere of the wood, the chemicals within, could have an effect on how the glazes react? Now, we'll never know. When I was young, many years ago,I was interested in pottery and did a couple of weekend courses, and was very impressed with how little one needed to mould clay, the different methods of achieving a form, and the very small earthen Raku oven. I remembered all the terminology used and thought how much I'd like to do some of the red clay you do. Looking forward to seeing the results of your next firing. Good luck. I loved your designs and shapes. Normlly I m not so fond of this type of design. I think the colour of the clay makes its so sppealing.

So interesting to see the different goals and methods. To me even the pots you criticize are looking great. I always like when the red clay gets some color variation :D So far I only fired with gas. Commercial pottery equipment had always been to expensive for me so I use a self made gas kiln. Someday I'd like to try wood or coal firing pots. I appreciate your approach. Seeing different methods and hearing different opinions is so important. I remember when I brought my first pots to a local art supply store that had an electric kiln the owner told me I could use milk for sealing my pots. Of course I though that's crazy. I'm happy you talk about those methods. Great skills and knowledge. Your chanel is a gem.

The crackling you showed reminds me of raku pottery firing , when temps drop fast they get the crackling effect look , have a look at those pottery firings , maybe you got the crackles from temperature dropping to quickly. Just a thought. 👍

Thank You

Thanks!

Guess it's a bit late to suggest a rebuild, but one of the things I would advise on a future build is putting your pots up higher in a similarly shaped kiln if you're after oxidation. The atmosphere tends to favor reduction the further down/closer you are to the heat source (firebox) as the fire is sucking in as much oxygen as it can gobble up. Without using a forced air solution, you're depending on ambient pressure to supply the in-draft which has a geometric and mathematical preference to length, opening, flow, and a hundred little variances that have a larger net effect. As an example, I helped redesign a fellow's outdoor burn fireplace as he kept complaining of black smoke chasing everyone away. Any time you see that, it's incomplete combustion, so I outlined how to open up his primary feed routes, add secondary and tertiary air supply holes in a reused steel feed trough, and ba bam, hot clean fire. Using just ambient air pressure, I'd opt for the round chamber design and axe the inflow chute (for backyard purposes where it's difficult at best to get a strong, steady draft, having 360* on possible inflow at the base works better, unless you have a known draft angle between two buildings without a fence in the way for example). Mix that with a bit of jet engine know-how and you'd have a very efficient kiln that can play with a lot of different firing techniques simply by varying where you put your pots in the firing chamber. Having a removable top dome with an exit flue would be a nice option to concentrate the exhaust and reflect some of the heat, but takes a bit more work to get them to survive repeat fires. Definitely doable, and done yourself, affordably too!

Hey not sure if it helps but one way you can help control your heat output is with your wood selection. Look up btu output of wood you are using. I run a small farm and heat a greenhouse with a wood stove and wood selection is very important. Some wood burns very hot others will be just warm.

Is there a video where I can find some more details about that black paint you used? I’d love to learn more about it…

Your pottery still looks pretty cool even if it was not what you were aiming at.

Good job

My problem with my Pottery was my fire got too hot and my clay may have had some organic stuff in it that burnt out and I had too much to sand in the clay

you need a taller chimney to draw in more air or use bellows to blow air into your kiln

Nice video … I love the last mug lol you say it’s ghostly , I like ghostly. My burner system is done , build my gas kiln in September. Highly experimental , but in some ways primitive , using earthenware clay Amd it’s an updraft kiln.

Think about the generations of people who started figuring this all out thousands of years ago and then passed the lore along. I'll bet the thermocouple did need to be centered better. Really interesting video. Thanks for sharing your investigations!

I am just in the process of building my kiln out of bricks. It'll be a dual smoker as well with removable metal stacking shelves. toI thought I'd make a first level metal base for the pottery to sit on which will cover the flaming fire. The heat will be directly under the metal sheet and get out around the perimeter of the sheet that will have legs to hold it up above the wood space. I'm making it rectangle with a concrete base. This will also be a smoke house for meats, thus the first level of metal cover sheet that keeps the wood flames from licking up will protect the meat from burning and allow the heat to rise up alone. It will have an opening to place the wood through, similar like the one in your video, to put the fire in. It'll stand about 3' high. I thought I would have a metal lid for the top with vents to release smoke or some heat. What is the recommended temperature for firing earth clay and for how long? What would you recommend for a thermocouple? I've looked on Amazon but there are many choices.

When I have watched you use that kiln I keep thinking of the one used on Primitive Technology when he fires bricks and tiles. Different purposes in the work and product, but they almost always come out bright red over there.

The grayish collors could be due to ash falling on the pots and melting, because of the high temperatures. Just a theory.

It’s torn down now, but I wonder if being hotter, you could have reserved it for clay that needed higher temperatures.

Super content .I will do the first outdoor firing in a couple of days .What do you recommend?do it only with woods or do it in a brick kiln ,witch one has a better success rate?

i think a simpler kiln would have worked better. like Primitive Technology uses in his most recent videos. firegrate extending front to back and its open on both sides so you can feed wood from both. he made a lot of pottery(some quite large pieces) and hunderds of bricks using that and it all looked alright considering the clay he uses.

Kept misreading the title as I Demolished My Primitive Kin. Dude, they're family!

The pots are really beautiful, but it's just that one small detail that could mess the whole thing up that sucks.

You mentioned about post firing before, can you prove that it works so i can paint my pot with organic paint because i have no special slips.

I think it has to do with the height of your chimney if the chimney is Too Tall it might create a rocket stove type effect which creates very high temperatures at the core and cooler along the sides

I enjoyed this video,sincerely,A.H

Well, too bad the experiment failed. I'm new here. Awesome stuff :)

I have a recurring problem with wild clay, first in Sweden, now in Greece. I discovered an Iron Age hillfort mainly thanks to local tortoises burrowing and digging out ceramics of all kinds, but mostly hand-made burnished ones. Now I'm trying to localize what was their source of clay, but everywhere around the hill it is an unsorted sandy, stony soil. The only clay i found was at the bottom of a small dried out river which also has quite a lot of silt in it. So I levigated it, but the clay I get is so weak, it is really hard to make it hold. I don't put more temper in it presuming it would just make things worse. Did you already have this problem, because I had the same problem in a totally different context in Sweden and I am starting to wonder if the clay I find is clay at all - I distinguished it by the cracked surface on the bottom of the small dry river. It's a bit dispairing, makes me want to get back to the bought clay that worked so well with added temper. But obviously these people from the "Tortoise Hillfort" did have access to some good clay and their houses were also made of clay which often burned, so I'm still trying to solve the mystery of their clay ressources.

You are certainly a better man than I, for I would do this experiment and not take the temperature at all, and probably fail.

As a non potter and having nothing to do with pottery I think these items are lovely and don't see the discolouration as flaws lol it looks perfect to me

Do you make those bricks by yourself as well? If so, could you make a video about it 🙂

Ben watching you vids for awhile still love them and the insights you give im getting better but way below your standard.

Speaking from the viewpoint of having a carpenter husband, I noticed one piece that you added to your kiln had nails. My husband has told me many times that burning treated wood or wood with nails in it adds chemicals to the fire and smoke that could be toxic and could easily change the colors. Something to consider…

i do see an issue that might be happening in your kiln, you should use a wider air box under the wood box. and you should be pushing more air in. opening another hole is just going to make the interior unevenly heated. the air coming in through the front goes through the fire to make a heated air. the air being pushed through the side is cold and mixing with the hot air. making a lot of potential thermal shock... thats why your getting cracking.

would it be possible to hit 2k degrees, if so how wld i accomplish that?

Hi, after fire.. all my bowl n cup becomes black.. may i know how to remove the burt on the bowl n cup?

I think the bottom having only the one opening to insert wood means the fire was in a oxygen starved state, so would be a reductive atmosphere and resist oxidation.

Sometimes you have to ditch things that don't work!

Is that one you're using now like Tony's firing?

How about adding a bellows to add more oxygen when needed and to keep the temperature up. It could exhaust the fuel near the end, add oxygen and then get it to cool more quickly. Not an expert, just a thought.

Andy, I'm confused a bit by all the brick kiln videos, and what worked best for you. I see you reference "Bill Warner's Kiln" here. Is there a video for that build? I searched but can't find it!

Are the crackled pieces still functional? Water tight? Is it just aesthetic problems with the heat? I am looking at your channel from survivalist point of view. I wanna know how to make a plate and a mug, and containers for hauling water to eat. Being pretty would be secondary to me.

i think it has something to do with the pre heating, i've seen some kiln just like that where im from in a remote village that has been producing earthenware for almost a millenia, they always preheat the pottery outside before putting it in the kiln, the potter said controlling the heat in the kiln is the most difficult part and he did this without any thermometer because that is what their ancestor were doing. It seems like you need to be an expert to do it.

I approve of the memey intro. Very good.

I know nothing about primitive kilns, but could the fact that it sits up next to the building have anything to do with it? Maybe the air circulation could be a problem? Just an idea…

Would a tanoor work?

Your black paint failed....something i have incurred with an open fire many times.......??? Great video...ever goood...

Are they regular bricks or those home depot firebricks? I want to make one of those shorter kilns you now use?

i bought an electric kiln. $1 to fire instead of $5 worth of firewood. i had very little success with wood fired. i am firing my local clay to 1945F. wood cannot do that. i had a hard time melting soda cans, which is 1220/660c. there are some big wood burning kilns that make high temps in yt videos, but they are big brick things. With my clay, an open fire is just like a sledgehammer, good for breaking and that is it.

I built a primitive Kiln using just clay soil that I pounded into a brick mold and used slip as a mortar. While I am proud of the build and it can produce red coloured, water proof ceramic it NEVER reaches the proper temperature and the result is always very weak/fragile In all, I personally believe that the construction of a kiln was actually too specific to just wing it as I did.

I couldn’t find the video about Bill Warner’s kiln.

Hey friend, i got some stuff that looked a lot like a good strong white clay... it felt very sticky and plastic when wet but after dry it destroys very easily into powder when pressed... What can it be? i swear it was white clay !!!

Cuántos ladrillos se necesitan...aprox.?

👍

👍👍👍👍👍

What’s a reduction atmosphere and why is it bad?

Hola bt, no entiendo porque destruye el horno .

I’ll take the mug!

maybe the cracking is due to temperature oscillation during firing? just a wild guess.

If you would allow my feedback, I believe you are too hard on your yourself. These pieces look great and no one would know it was supposed to be more red, for instance. I would love to have one of these and be none the wiser of the color it was 'supposed to be'

Normally your open fairings were about 680°C 720°C 😳

You have any give away pots?