I Have A Problem With Games Workshop Minis...

Рет қаралды 88,850

25 күн бұрын

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This has been brewing for a while for me, but this Warhammer Box just pushed me over the edge...
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This channel is about painting miniatures for your warhammer, infinity, warmachine & d&d games, as well as age of sigmar and warhammer 40k. space marines, space wolves, sisters of battle, stormcast eternals, beastclaw raiders, mawtribes, cities of sigmar, chaos space marines. Also painting different scale models and miniature busts! How to paint NMM. How to paint warhammer, how to paint D&D figures.

Пікірлер: 833

@trovarion 24 күн бұрын

Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Use my link to get 50% off your first Factor box and 20% off your next month of orders! strms.net/factor75_trovarion

@SigurdBraathen 4 күн бұрын

*sigh* another commercial. :(

@trovarion 4 күн бұрын

@@SigurdBraathen what are you on about? Without sponsors there would be no videos. So skip ahead if you don't want to watch it and be glad that these companies advertise on our channels, because if not I can assure you that 90% of miniature channels would not exist anymore.

@rthj6446 2 күн бұрын

And this is why I see printing as the best option. Removing the diddly-doodly and simplifying the surfaces to let the paint do more in creating the look, is much easier in blender than with a file.

@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t 24 күн бұрын

As a guy who typically has played relatively high moel count armies, the 'unique' and 'dynamic' poses lose their charm when you have 5 or 6 of them in your army.

@ZhukovsBoots 24 күн бұрын

This is the big problem with the new tyranids, the old hormagants and termagants looked good in large numbers like a true swarm, the new ones would be good for a skirmish game but don't work as well in an army.

@jesterprince4949 24 күн бұрын

I have 100 chaos cultists, not one of them is a clone. I will sit there and hand convert every single mini to be unique and I will be gleeful doing it. The dynamic poses are a good starting point.

@jesterprince4949 24 күн бұрын

@@ZhukovsBoots Doesn't take much to bend or chop them a little bit though. Nids are super easy to repose. Besides a running gaunt is a running gaunt, the old kits were hardly flush with unique poses.

@darkhighwayman1757 24 күн бұрын

I have a bunch of heresy marines and they are all holding the bolter in 2 hands and its rough sometimes to get the arms and hands right. I want some pointing hands or a grenade hand or something

@dziku2222 21 күн бұрын

Yeah, but I make conversions of everything on my infantry armies. Each dude is unique, even if that looks wacky. I make minis to make them rather silly and goofy, but still not breaking the setting immersion that much, this way I feel like those guys are memorable when they do something on the table

@hjorhrafn 21 күн бұрын

I don't mind the over-designed factor on Leaders or Elite units, but bog standard units don't need the level of detail that we seem to be stuck with these days. I don't want to have to paint 9 belts, 8 pouches, 3 daggers, and a letter from Susie on every peasant levyman. I really just want a range that has modern quality with some older, simpler designs. It isn't impossible to find thankfully, and getting easier every day, especially with a 3d printer.

@KujoPainting 24 күн бұрын

100% As well as assembling and prepping issues, I prefer models that let me add my own detail with the paint, over ones that force me to paint details with the sculpt. And when there's too many of them it just kills my motivation to paint it.

@max16 24 күн бұрын

glad to see you are still around brother.

@GoldenKaos 24 күн бұрын

This is a problem I've had with GW minis for about 10 years now tbh, the overabundance in detail is no doubt great creatively for the *designers* at the studio, but it diminishes the creativity left for the customers.

@zera9579 24 күн бұрын

100% man. I finally got round to painting an apothecary the other day. Battle ready, nothing special but still took in the region of 8-10 hours because of all the details. It's a great sculpt and now it's done it looks great but it sucked all my motivation and I'm really struggling to get back into painting something else.

@T_Kempf 24 күн бұрын

Completely agree. I miss the night goblins I painted early 2000s where the mini made you want to add details, now I try to simplify/remove details. And building has always been my least favorite part 😅

@saltedllama2759 24 күн бұрын

They are easily left off or eliminated because they are plastic. You leave it off, fill in the tiny spot where it was supposed to be, sand smooth, and paint away. Still an easier process than what old metal or resin kits used to be like to prepare.

@Zenkujo 24 күн бұрын

For me, cleanup is a terrible motivation killer - I totally believe that "seams"/mouldlines on a kit should be designed to be hidden, deep in a shoulder joint or what not, requiring little-to-no-clean-up. Also I prefered older mentality of breaking the kits up into legs, torso, arms, heads was better than all the mono-posing that goes on now - better for kitbashing, better for posing... I completely agree "overdesigned" - much as many figs are pretty, there's a lot less for you to do your own way.

@Mikester88 24 күн бұрын

I totally understand that cleanup is a motivation killer but for me i actually don't mind it. I find it pretty "zen" to just zone out and get to cleaning, pretty straightforward most of the time. I was thinking about the monopose vs old style of seperating parts the other day. I don't think the old way was that much better, most of the time the models looked pretty much the same anyway and if you are into kitbashing you can still do most of it if you are a little bit creative. But for sure its not AS easy. If i had to choose between great looking dynamic models or more rigid designs of old i take the new ones anyday.

@Zenkujo 24 күн бұрын

@@Mikester88 I get that. It's very much a "to each their own" thing. :) I get that some people prefer the detail to paint, others prefer to create detail with paint for eg. There really is no one way, cos there are too many different aspects to the hobby. Some build. Some paint. Some spend hundreds hrs, some want an hr paint at most. Some play, some don't. Me, I'm a kitbash/customise that utterly hates cleaning mould lines. Mostly cos I always bloody miss one and my dry brush always finds them. I don't mind cleaning up my custom stuff, but cleaning up flash, mould lines etc I'm always like "surely you could design this so this doesn't need to happen". :D

@petlemons 24 күн бұрын

@@Mikester88 For my hobbying, I really appreciate the new exciting dynamic poses, because I only ever paint one of each. However, when I was playing a lot, I wanted something in between the old static poses, and the new dynamic poses. The quesion becomes: what do you want more; 100 clanrats all with the same boring static pose, or 10 groups of 10 rats with the same dynamic pose. I'm not sure which I personally dislike more! The plastic 30k marines are close, but as I look at my 1k Sons army, my eyes are still drawn to the similar poses on many of the minis.

@Mikester88 24 күн бұрын

@@petlemons Yeah, fair point. It is a difficult nut to crack. Ideally you should have the option to do both but that might be asking too much. Then some armies lend themselves better to more monopose. My necrons are sets of 5different poses, albeit very similar poses, and in a bigger group it fits. Probably same with the skaven then, horde armies overall would probably benefit. When it comes to smaller more elite armies i like to do some converting just to mix the models up a bit. But i don't do it for playing either.

@J-Teg 22 күн бұрын

It very depends on the model . The Redemptor Design is awesome. You can move every part of it. But on the other hand I still find mould lines on textured parts which are impossible to clean up. GW improved the mould lines but now them really design to much gaps.

@ThurzagLP 24 күн бұрын

What i like the least are not the gaps but rather the fact that these new designs discourage Kitbashing and adding your own flavor by making it more difficult. You don't get alot of flat surfaces that allow room for your own interpretation, instead you get parts that fit like the ones you have shown and it's like: "Where do i even start?". It also makes your quote at 03:21 hit twice as much for these cases, your Kitbash might look like garbage until you add that final part which perfectly covers up your "Mistakes". You basically need a final image in your head before you even start, instead of just going at it like gits used to.

@petlemons 24 күн бұрын

I agree, but I have found a technique that has made it more manageable. Things don't go into my bitz box as individual pieces anymore. They will go in as sub assemblies. Just like you might cut a part a weapon to use different pieces of it, I cut apart the sub assemblies. It does require a bit more sculpting, but it has made these minis much easier to kitbash with.

@paulgibbons2320 13 күн бұрын

From the comments, I think most of us agree with that. ❤

@81Earthangel 22 күн бұрын

I 100% agree. Just look at the original HeroQuest miniatures. You stand 2 meters away and you can see that guy is “The Barbarian” and that guy is a “Chaos Warrior” and that guy the “Dwarf”. And look at this cool little goblins over there and this amazing skeletons at the other side of the room. Now a look at the battle field and I have no fucking clue what I am looking at.

@AbenZin1 12 күн бұрын

"You can't even tell what this is! This is a Gargoyle."

@rangda_prime 11 күн бұрын

Well said. I'm actually printing scans of old Heroquest and adjacent minis right now to get back to the older, simpler style of minis.

@MatthewFederico 8 күн бұрын

I don't agree at all. If I had to build minis in the style of Heroquest, I wouldn't want anything to do with the hobby. They are just as ugly as they are easy to build. I love the new range of GW minis for being full of personality and a top tier artistic direction. You can see the difference in quality between Age of Sigmar and The Old World.

@81Earthangel 7 күн бұрын

@@MatthewFederico Old Hero quest figures cam fully assembled, except for one model which had 3 parts. They were really well designed and had a great art style. I am not talking about the new HeroQuest.

@skraaj007 2 күн бұрын

That type of design mentality crept everywhere. Noticed it first with Diablo 3, in D1 you k ew which mob is which - D3 is all generic. And later I started to notice that in GW minis as well. All very similar in terms of garments, spikes etc. Kind of glad that OW has old-ish models

@helekarsargarian6831 24 күн бұрын

My issue is a "if you gaze long into a gap, the gap also gazes into you" thing, and i cannot, for the life of me ignore it

@zaynevanday142 24 күн бұрын

😂😂😂

@gwaltigel 24 күн бұрын

I feel you :|

@magicianman534 23 күн бұрын

Them: What's the matter? Your mini looks great to me. You: *BUT IT'S WRONG*

@mrsupaconducta 22 күн бұрын

I avoid gazing at glazes because I don't want to connect on a personal level with my donuts.

@brionl4741 22 күн бұрын

Ginnungagap

@Adam4A4 24 күн бұрын

1. Wherever a sculptor's chisel could get, a brush can get there. Additionally, hand-carved details could have a specific size depending on the size of the tools and the precision of the eye. Today's models are too complicated. Details made in a 3D program can be much smaller. I miss the old, slightly chunky models. The cartoonish proportions in old Warhammer had their own charm. 2. Filling gaps is frustrating and often involves the destruction of the texture (scales, folds, scars, etc.) in the process of abrasion with sandpaper. Perfectionists will not get easy times with new models.

@Rivetlicker 24 күн бұрын

The main problem I have with complex posees, and models having a lot "stuff" orbiting around them, is that they make it less easy to carry them around. And gaming is one of the aspects a lot of people are in for this hobby. if you need a seperate box for each single model, it feels like you're moving an army, rather than just bringing some mini's along to game. And personally, as someone who doesn't own a car, it's just getting more and more of a hassle... Don't get me wrong, I love centerpiece models, but everything is so wildly posed, with so many details, there isn't any centrepiece model... all models are.

@NINETAILEDF0X 24 күн бұрын

Mini’s are getting over designed in general IMO - sometimes less is more. I saw a comment recently on reddit that said ‘wow I didn’t think you’d be able to make this mini look good cos there’s hardly any detail on the sculpt, but it looks great!’ It’s really stuck with me as a super strange way of looking at models and painting, but it was highly upvoted so I guess it’s not that uncommon an opinion.

@Suiberis 24 күн бұрын

It's one of the reasons why in the DnD communities where minis are less important, some painters have started going with knockoffs of Schleich fantasy toys or even Schelich inspired toys from Aliexpress. Simpler sculpts and poses, but enough detail to look good when given some care, especially on the larger 5 inch monsters.

@Hot_Dice 24 күн бұрын

Well you’re talking about Reddit so…

@Finn-pe7uj 22 күн бұрын

It’s Reddit. What do you expect from those soulless creatures?

@spikeydood4241 24 күн бұрын

I am a collector, “enthusiastic” painter who enjoys building armies for the fun of it, historically mostly GW armies. After 30+ years of doing this, I have obviously noticed the detail creep that has happened with the advent of 3d sculpting. As my grandkids get older, more and more do they want to “play a game” with my minis. I would let them but with all the spikes and fragility of these beautifully sculpted masterpieces I just couldn’t let them. Instead, I purchased Mantic’s skirmish game Deadzone and boy! I had an absolute blast. The minis were so simple, yes nowhere near the amount of detail but within a week of evenings I had them built, painted and ready for the Boys first taste or wargaming. And that included the scenery! It was a revelation that I had actually been feeling more and more reluctant to start assembling and painting the latest goodness from GW without even knowing it. Will I continue to collect GW products. As long as I can afford to then yes. Will I be adding to the Boys Mantic armies…Oh yes I am already doing so and enjoying the Hell out of it.

@bojoggs-ik8tq 22 күн бұрын

Just look at the new terminator chaplain, guy has 3 different 4+ invulnerable saves on top of the 5+, all on the model.

@CesarIsaacPerez 20 күн бұрын

I play Boardgames with my nieces, I also don't want them handling my nice minis. Maybe when they get older.

@andreyradchenko8200 2 күн бұрын

Shill bot.

@CharlotteV3D 21 күн бұрын

What I find with overly designed minis, is that first -> this is a marketing trick. They show beautifully on a box, it makes people want to buy them, but once they are assembled (after going through the gazillion steps), you never know by where to start with the painting. Second -> if you really intricately paint every detail, it can become a very difficult thing to recognize the mini from afar when you look at it on the table, as it becomes a visual mess. It makes it very difficult to start painting (particularly for new hobbyists) as you actively have to choose what you want to highlight on the mini before painting it and stick to that plan. Sometimes it's nice to really plan ahead, make sub-assemblies etc. for your hero character or things like that. I don't want to have to go through this whole process for the rest of the normal army. The normal minis should be standardized, posable and easy to chain-pain.

@Wolfnstone 24 күн бұрын

I find the building process therapeutic. I don't play anymore so my painting is mostly for display so no rush to get things done. Personally I'd rather deal with gaps than undercuts. Bit of milliput and a quick sanding usually sorts them whereas essentially re-sculpting an under cut can be a tedious endeavour

@Mikester88 24 күн бұрын

Same here!

@jesterprince4949 24 күн бұрын

Agreed. Trovarion has to pump out videos on the weekly basis to appease the you tube deities, so its a pain if a mini is complex. Us regular people have more time to spend enjoying the build. The people that don't enjoy building won't enjoy it anyway. The building section is one of my favourite parts and the more complex a mini is the more I get excited.

@chappy4756 24 күн бұрын

I'm one of those freaks who enjoys the building process as much as the painting piece, especially vehicles - i think it's the engineer part of me. However, i agree 110% with the mold lines, i just built the Ursula Creed and Canoness figs and there were some very inconvenient mold lines that needed OCD attention. You aren't the only one with a beef over the "over-built" minis these days. Pete the Wargamer is constantly shaving off and stripping down minis in his builds, like his Raptors. Pros and Cons. I don't need infinite pouches on my 150 Guardsmen to paint, but on my Officers and characters, definitely. Henry on Cult of Paint talked about this in his recent Solar Auxilia vid. love your content man, keep it up!

@theWolfnMiniatures 24 күн бұрын

One of my biggest problems with modern cutting is when a piece of the sculpted base is part of the model or vice versa. Like a foot is part of the base, or the tree is attached to the cape. Even when I'm not doing subassemblies I prefer to do the base separate. This is also true with riders and mounts being partially integrated and the legs are attached to the horses back or something (Outriders...). Belthanos' feet? Like...at least the outrides are push-fit....he's a centerpiece.

@IPpainting 24 күн бұрын

I agree with your points. Assembling and cleanup is the #1 motivation killer for me and makes me paint less overall as a result

@DylanGuitar525 24 күн бұрын

i switched from building Gundam to playing/building/painting Warhammer so for me its not that bad. But the moldlines on some miniatures are just atrocious.

@andreasmuller4666 24 күн бұрын

It´s the step I prefer far over doing the paintjob. To each their own I guess.

@flag5enemyinsight397 6 күн бұрын

Aha! The one thick coat painting method comes to the fore with dealing with joins of multiple part models. My time to shine!

@lz1094 24 күн бұрын

its something i just thought about myself recently when i watched another of these " i try to paint an army in 24hours" video, were everyone always fails because they spend at least half the time building the army instead of painting.. as a youngster i would build fantasy regiments in an evening, basecoat them and start painting. now i spend the first weekend assembling a unit half the size. I do love the look of many of the new models, but damn do i hate building them..

@RusoDryLaw 24 күн бұрын

I have to say the ammount of new, small details made in new models... They put me off from painting as well. It feels like a chore lately to paint just one infantry unit, let alone a whole army of them. I agree Chris, it does get overwhelming too often now.

@andresperedo1275 24 күн бұрын

It is clear that when the details are sculpted into the model, they "fit better", but I prefer to have those details as "add ons", so you can choose if you want to include them or not.

@vendorlucid 24 күн бұрын

Yes! Plus the fact that I have to go with subassemblies to be able to paint some models is quite annoying.

@notinterested_1234 24 күн бұрын

I wholeheartedly agree. The amount of details have skyrocketed and is more geared towards slapchop and contrasts, sucking a lot of the fun out of deliberate painting, where you want some freedom of expression. The second point you make on the sprues, yes gap fillings and mold lines are two annoying things, but another point with these overly complex designs is that they make converting your minis a nightmare. So many minis now has half their head on one part, and the other half on another. Same with arms and hands. The modularity is gone, probably to counter 3D printed bits. It’s a damn shame.

@FreelancerND 24 күн бұрын

Even with slapchop, those amounts od etails will look absolutely poopoo if used with slapchop + contrast alone. And good luck painting all those tiny miniscule details with regular acrylics.

@jeancouscous 24 күн бұрын

"probably to counter 3D printed bits" is a conspiracy that is just not true lol. 3d printing is perhaps getting 0.10% of gw bread lol. It's mostly because they have more and more complex designs that doesn't bode well with modularity.

@jesterprince4949 24 күн бұрын

Ah yes, the good old days of GW minis where you had the option of posing you guy taking a dump pointing to the left, or taking a dump pointing slightly less to the left. Or you had a metal mini that did have a dynamic pose, but modifying it was a total pain. I will take the dynamic plastic poses every time, its a better base model to work with. It took so much more work to make a decent pose out of the old minis.... or you had to start with a metal mini, which was even more work.

@FreelancerND 24 күн бұрын

@@jesterprince4949We did not care about this soy shit in 90s cause we bought minis to PLAY tabletop with. Nowadays, people do not play warhammer, they buy overpriced collectible figurines, hence the overcomplication of sculpts. Simple.

@jesterprince4949 24 күн бұрын

@@FreelancerND Sod off, I was there too mate, we wanted cool as shit minis, we just had to work harder to get them.

@PeterResponsible 19 күн бұрын

100% agree that the assembly is killing fun. I also started investing more into Kickstarter board games with minis (most recently marvel zombies, marvel united recently) because these come assembled in a box and that makes all the difference for me.

@ronuss 24 күн бұрын

As someone who doesn't play but just paints and enters the odd painting comp, yes i gap fill and yes it has gotten worse over time. I will say i do enjoy building anyway. If im just painting something for fun though , with nothing in mind i will only fill big gaps that can catch the eye, anything behind / underneath is just not worth it. I think the biggest issue with new minis is they are starting to cram so much detail into every part of the mini it takes away a lot of freedom you have to free flow ur own ideas and styles into the mini. The edge highlight lines on some of the snap to fit minis are awful. Still you have to think there doing all this as most people who buy and paint probably are only doing it on a paint to play and care little about gaps or mold lines ext.

@alejandroballesteroshernan1678 24 күн бұрын

Hello Sir. The overdesign is most prevalent among 3d prints, as they have more variety obviously. For me as a painter, I dont find those models enjoyable, so what I've found myself doing more and more is taking small scale (10-15mm) and upscale them up 200-300% to have my regular warhammer sized minis, and they are so chunky and so nice and so satisfying to paint. Particularly Varus dwarves are really good warhammer dwarves when upscaled. Regarding the overengineered size, well, those kind of minis usually can be printed in one part

@Zulfrak 23 күн бұрын

yeah this is a problem i found with a bunch of 3D designes for Print. The modesl look grat in renders but are so full of details and textures and whatsoever. Some designers recogniced this and keep it simple, but then the minis are harder to "sell" cause they may look plain.

@lorenzostupify 23 күн бұрын

My biggest inconvenient with new GW minis is how complicated can be kitbash them to make them unique, and I know they do this to prevent 3d prints to reused all the extra parts they put on their kits, which is A LOT I do not like having multiple exactly the same pose units in my army, and the amount of time spent on kitbash is disgusting (even if I love it) compared to how much time I spend actually painting, which is even worst when you think that some big units is just impossible doing this for how they are made, and I'm not even talking about Tyranids which is just something else GW should work more in this concept that they used to be so good at it that was having your own personal army with the tools they provide, which now days is just a simple upgrade kit that doesn't even work for the amount of units you need for a match. That or let me sculpt/3d print the parts that I need without having to saw an arm and a leg to make my unit not look the same

@hamishbryant8488 24 күн бұрын

About the handrail edge, It's quite interesting because this is something that we usually do in modelling for video games to help bring out the shapes of different elements. Especially with video game engine highlighting silhouette in the geometry and textures is super important for it to look decent. Could be some of these were designed by modellers who moved from games to mini's :)

@TheRotbringer 22 күн бұрын

That’s why the Old World feels so good. Simple models that I can make as complex as I want.

@martinezjoaquin9607 24 күн бұрын

Totally agree with you on this. My main problem being the overdesign leaving you with flavorless characters, no room for painting and figurines that are really fragile. I prefer a lot oldhammers sturdy figurines. I would add that most overcomplicated design makes no sense most of the time on the battlefield (that dwarf is really jumping everytime and carry his rock everywhere ?)

@garrgravarr 8 күн бұрын

I'm assembling a Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince right now and it's like the algorithm could detect my pain and frustration...

@klavakkhazga3996 24 күн бұрын

I hate building models and getting glue on my fingers, particularly GW ones. But discovering games where the minis come already preassembled (like asoiaf), and 3d printing models that need no assembly has made me enjoy the hobby a lot again

@timreeves 24 күн бұрын

use sprue glue to glue the parts together, with enough that it squeezes out a little, then blend that away with sculpting tools (pointy silicon one and the little metal ball on the end of a stick ones are my most used). works great on anything organic, and if it's on an armour panel you can just sand it flush after anyway.

@Scribbinge 24 күн бұрын

100% depends on the model for me. If its a monster or the centrepiece of an army I'm happy for both the sculptor to go all out with details and myself with gap filling and sanding, because thats what draws your eye for a tabletop army - but if its like that for every model it gets very fatiguing.

@BlackKara 24 күн бұрын

I really Like how Rouge Hobbies has handled this, by finding older models, making her own, and bringing attention to nice simple models.

@Vorpal_Wit 24 күн бұрын

Generally I spend a lot of time with test fitting, and don't have much issue with seems. The sculpts are so accurate, and there is almost no shrinkage in the material so the gaps are air tight...IF you spend the time on cleaning and test-fitting. I happen to be one of the rare individuals that enjoys assembly so this comes easier to me that it does to most people, who rush it because they want to get to the painting as fast as possible. My bigger issue is that the parting DOES NOT take into account the painter's need for logical sub-assemblies on larger and/or more complicated poses.

@Yormolch 3 сағат бұрын

When I read the title of the video, I didn't think I would have the same experience as a top notch miniature painter and builder, but I kind of do. For me, the overdesigning has two major flaws: 1. It greatly complicates, diminishes or even takes away the ability to kitbash and make a miniature "your own". In the past I could add little bits and pieces, exchange weapons, heads and arms, to make two miniatures that have the same base sprue look diferent from each other. Get two Space Marine Captains, change up a few bits and boom, they look like completely different characters. With newer sets, like the Immolation Squad for example, I get 10 models, that are 2 times the same five guys, in very "striking" poses, that make it very hard to add anything on to them, that makes them look more like a part of my army. I can't even exchange shoulder pads, because 2. The digital method makes the miniature creators lazier. It's the only reason that can explain the dogsh*t placement of the parts in the sprue. The shoulders are sometimes attached to the torso, sometimes to the arms, never are they seperate. Sometimes the Torso is split in two, or even three parts, that wrap around each other in kind of twisting motion. You can't change any parts in that mini. This whole problem extends to painting as well, because the poses make it nearly impossible to reach certain areas of the miniature, without painting "in subassembly". But with the individual parts being cut in such weird angles, gluing them together afterwards can make the connection points stick out very badly and causes more work. I really don't enjoy sets when they are like this. But what frustrates me the most, is that you can see, that they still have people on their team that understand how to create sprues in a consumer friendly way. The new Terminator Set is awsome for kitbashing and easy assembly, without big gaps. So yeah... some more quality control from a consumer standpoint would be nice I guess.

@robertpenduck8455 24 күн бұрын

I use liquid resin and I can thicken it by adding talc powder increases the thickness of the paste and if its thick I just add more resin then cura with a UV torch.

@diggah 24 күн бұрын

I wholeheartedly agree with your issues with modern gdubs minis. I remember the first time I saw one of their over-designed minis and thinking “ ok but how would you store and transport that?”. Tbh I mostly paint oldhammer minis now simply due to the aesthetic leaning too hard into the hyper detailed. Conversely I actually like building miniatures so the assembly isn’t the off putting part, but more the shotgun-blast-like approach to details.

@Squirrelsquid 16 күн бұрын

In my hobby journey, I started with second edition 40k starter box, and back then, obviously the models were simple. I was also a kid, and didn't really care so much about mold lines, and was not aware of putty to fill gaps. Fast forward to around 2010, and I had a brief stint in Warmachine and Hordes, painting 3 battle groups, and some additional units for them. Those models were significantly more complex than the ol 2. edition monopose marines, and my painting significantly improved ( always artistically inclined, better grasp of techniques, etc ), so I had a lot of fun with the 25-30 models I painted during that time. Arriving in the "now times" - I had that spur of urge to get some Battle Sisters ( just a 10 girl squad ), and obviously needed all the things again. So, after 350 € spent on tools, brushes, paints, and the price of the minis, it cost almost a fortune. When everything was there, I was eager to start, and then looked at the assembly guide. Some part splits, I can totally understand. But others? They have a split on the legs, running from the knee to the heel, and I REALLY don't get why they were printed as separate pieces, because without a good gap filling putty, that leg will look atrocious. The whole assembly has put me so off, that the squad is laying around half assembled for weeks now. The excessive mold lines and gap filling are just no fun.

@W.edgewargames 24 күн бұрын

As a primary painter and not much of a gamer, I spend a good amount of time filling gaps when necessary, smoothing any additional materials off and generally making sure the minis I'm working on are in the bed possible condition before I even put primer on them. Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm neurotic about it. I know when I look at other people's work, if I see mold lines of gaps, it immediately reads as "they didn't care enough to take those bits off", and that to me is a bit of laziness. I have a good friend who doesn't clean his minis before painting, and it shows.

@BryanParryArtist 20 күн бұрын

As someone who sculpts miniatures, I have tried to learn how to sculpt miniatures by researching what already works. An important detail is whether or not the piece is going to be used instead of just sit in a display case. There's a good reason the old designs were chonky. They didn't break easy when being handled and transported. I would postulate that this shift to display quality over play focused is that most people don't play Warhammer. Most people just paint them. And as anyone who has played Warhammer knows, you're shoving these things together in units and their spindly bits hook onto everything. Thankfully they are made of plastic. Which brings us to resin printing. There are ways to get resin stronger but anyone whose used small resin miniatures knows - they break easy. Ive had skeletons with almost perfect anatomical accuracy shatter from hooking my finger and dropping an inch back onto the table when playing a ttrpg. They look fantastic! But are impractical for play. Chess pieces are chunky for a reason. So they can last. You have to sculpt them to print well and easy as well as make them thick. Look at Heroforge. Their clothes are cartoonishly thick and their weapons are like holding a log. But they're durable. In conclusion, we can see that Games Workshop is making a choice to lean towards the painting side. And they may be prioritizing taking a sculpt that wasn't made for printing and figuring it out after it's handed to the engineering team. They may get better with time but I doubt games workshop is going to pay sculptors enough for them to learn faster. Otherwise we'd know who sculpts these things. (I have a personal grudge against Games Workshop because they never post artwork or minis with the artist's name)

@DarlekProductions 24 күн бұрын

Great video explaining some of the challenges of modern miniature design. So often I see details in 3d sculpted minis that are either too small to see on the printed model or too small to paint accurately. Main issue I see with most GW models lately isn't even the 3d sculpting, but the slicing of the models for the mass produced plastic sprues. Imagine this is most likely because of their schedules and turn around times for producing these models, which likely prevents the degree of quality control required to reduce the ongoing issues with mould lines and gaps. Another issue in the great bucket of problems that GW has left unaddressed for too long.

@DetroitTyler 22 күн бұрын

I agree with everything, just returned to the hobby and kitbashed a model using the Legion Praetor model and here i am attaching a sliver of a cape bit because they wanted a fold/wrinkle detail, now the cape has a slight gap and didn't even really have a joint for the cape to cape space making it extremely brittle. Didn't realize I needed a bunch of extra supplies for assembly until then. For what they charge for mini's these days people shouldn't have to deal with some of these BS micro details/headaches.

@lunatykuku 23 күн бұрын

100% agree. Painting minis from other companies, that are not over-designed is breath of fresh air

@Jammil2477 23 күн бұрын

What grinds my gears most with mould lines etc…I’ll think I’ve done a good job prepping my model, then start painting…finding a line that I missed…I know it’s ruined my model and I don’t want to go any further with it…it’ll usually be in the leg or backpack of a space marine and I know it’s highly visible to me. It really knocks my enthusiasm to carry on as I know I have to strip the model, start afresh and with limited time..I toss it aside and think the 2-3 hours I’ve set aside are ruined. Where time pressures compete with hobby time…it’s a choice that gets easier and easier to move away from the hobby.

@kylarstern671 13 күн бұрын

I usually try to get rid of any moldlines on my minis and fill in any gaps. Its just everytime when I thought I was very thorough on a mini, I end up finding a god damn mold line, right when I am doing my NMM or an OSL.

@BelIa42 24 күн бұрын

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. It's very interesting to me. I really like building the minis. To me it's relaxing and I can completely zone out and get lost without any of the pressure I feel towards choosing "the best possible painting scheme". There is nothing I need to decide except what weapons/arms/heads I'd like where. So, I can simply enjoy building the mini because there is nothing I can do wrong (might just be that I trust my ability to remove mold lines and fill gaps more than choosing paint schemes and actual painting, though). So, I'm always a bit sad when I have built everything.

@quitamgogh 24 күн бұрын

I just did this on the manticore in the Talia Vedra kit. Sprue goo seemed fill a couple of gaps on the wings and I primed it and went ahead and did a base coat while i had the airbrush out but the gaps were very visible. Just put the milliput right over the paint, when back with primer and another base coat. Slowed down my progress by like 2 days. Not ideal but the mini went together really well. Not sure how I feel about it but I don’t like assembly either!

@andrewaddison2222 24 күн бұрын

The old Hexwraiths were so difficult to build that I stopped halfway. Things that really put a blocker on my enjoyment: tiny little bits that you have to glue! They often get broken, I end up having loads of mould line clean up and are a real pain to clean up. I don't mind having to fix gapping if it's easy to get to. The mawpit is an example of this.

@Gillford0 24 күн бұрын

I try to hide the crime with paint. I make a thic coat of base paint fill it as best as i can and then divert the eye with strategicly placed Highlights

@JoyfulNerd400 24 күн бұрын

Building my minis is sometimes my favourite part of miniature painting, I can’t say I agree at all

@JmccallT 24 күн бұрын

Although I think alot of comments here are valid and agree with them, talking about mould lines, loss of modular parts and building being a chore with over complex parts. I think people forget how far we have come from old pewter models, cleaning those, sanding, filling gaps, repairing miscast parts with green stuff and not being able to kitbash them like with can with kits now. I think its good to remember GW produces some of the best kits in the world that allow us to do this hobby we love so much. There is something for everyone, even more so now with 3D printers, from the naustalgia of metal scultps to super high res over designed display models and every army in between. It really just depends what you collect for

@mn01_ 24 күн бұрын

Totally agree. I enjoy painting and I always get hyped for new kits. Then I open the box and see a bunch of snipping and sanding and gap filling and lose momentum. The best part of the GW metal era was the speed which you could get to painting. I would honestly pay an extra dollar per GW model to have them assembled and ready to go after some light prep.

@panimauser970 23 күн бұрын

I am using thicker sprue goo, closer to putty in consistency, and then I'm using plastic glue with nail polish brush to move the bead of goo around to make perfectly smooth surface. Also, nail polish brush takes care of minor mould lines without sanding or scraping too. This makes building plastic models so easy I really do not want to work with models made from other materials anymore. Still do sometimes, but there's a lot of swearing involved. Overall in my experience gaps and mould lines are so much worse on older GW kits. Building older plastic orcs compared to new ones is a chore. As for overdesigning - I see how it is annoying for someone with high-end painting style. But it works so well for drybrushing+washes/contrasts! Even a complete beginner can knock out this box in a week this way. And I'm pretty sure they aim for the crowd that wants to put painted armies on the tables fast rather than people who spend tens or even hundreds of hours painting a single skink. After all, if one is willing to put this much time into painting - what is an extra hour to sand off the raised 'trim' on fabric or make the banner/shield smooth for freehand?

@SeppukoGaming 23 күн бұрын

I am absolutely with you on that. They added so much details to the minis and limited us on positioning the minis like we could do back in the day since basically everything was a flat surface to glue to another flat surface. Yeah, the minis look amazing, but giving us more "empty" spaces without thousands of pouches and skulls would be great. Add them like back in the day and give us the chance to add them or leave them away without having to hack away at the mini like a butcher and then rescuplting the areas. I hope they get to a point where they give us more opportunities to create our own visions again with multipose kits that look amazing and not overdesigned with detail 🙏

@Daealis 23 күн бұрын

I've started using undercutting pretty aggressively in my 3D sculpts too: To cut down on the part count, fill impossible-to-paint areas, and make the prints sturdier (cheap resin is still brittle).

@MikeScarbro 23 күн бұрын

I agree with the point you're trying to make about the overly designed models. Personally I don't mind so much the activity of assembly and cleanup, but I'm so anal about every little detail that it takes me ages and ages to get models ready to paint. It takes so long, in fact, that by the time I've assembled one box I'm often distracted by the next thing and I somehow end up with multiple armies of zenithal primed minis and a collection of unbuilt plastic in my closet that taunts me every day. I'm also a very slow painter even though I like the process of it, so if I were to ever "catch up" in my building pipeline, the painting backlog is nearing double digit number of years before I could realistically finish.

@jacobstrong1494 20 күн бұрын

Ahhh, I really enjoy the building part of the hobby. Sanding, cutting, filling gaps, yes I agree it can be annoying when there's a bunch of unnecessary gaps, but I don't mind doing some work to build and clean up a model. I build and paint Gunpla models as well. I enjoy both side of the hobby. Building and painting.

@xxalsinusxx2038 24 күн бұрын

I'm someone that really enjoys the building process so it doesn't really bother me, but I'm also not someone who is painting for a living. I'm not stuck on some harsh deadline. I'll build a mini over the course of a week using spru goo and sanding things back as well as putting extra little bits over spots that didn't cooperate through that process because I can. If the thing that decided if I paid rent was the mini being finished with paint, I too would begin hating models that need to be babied.

@sovietbear1917 23 күн бұрын

I'm assembling some Kroxigors right now and I'm feeling this video. SO MANY SEAMS! and each kroxigor is 15-20 parts that need clipped and clean. It's been taking me 2-3 hours to assemble each model, and around 20-30 minutes to sprue goo and sand the gaps. Very frustrating.

@randykeeling1916 21 күн бұрын

I can't remember the last time I put together a model that ended up with gaps in them. But building is my favorite part of the "hobby" process. If you take your time with them I find that most kits are machined so exactly that they do go together seamlessly. I've not put together the darkoath box so that might be one of the kits that has those errors in them. Most of the time though, if there is a gap or line in the model I find heavy primer does a good job sealing those areas.

@rumant455 22 күн бұрын

I don't know if I made a mistake when building the Glottkin but mine had a crazy amount of gaps to fill. I'm not the best at sanding and filling so I plan to add random Nurgle goo or grit to cover up anything I missed. I somehow always find something I missed after priming

@damiansmash 24 күн бұрын

I agree, I assembled some AoS Chaos Knights recently. They were very complex and it has made painting them daunting. They look amazing, but probably would still look amazing if they toned the details down slightly

@DJRockford83 20 күн бұрын

The kind of detail in stargrave, frostgrave, 2000s Warhammer, Wargames Atlantic are the perfect blend between gaming pieces and interesting minis

@GiggityGoo205 24 күн бұрын

I just got the made to order metal Ork Nobz which are dated for 1998 and I think they look a lot more lively than the plastic ones but both look good to me. There's aspects of each that are better than one another and I think having them all mixed up in their units makes them all feel more characterful. I also think Kromlech's resin hand sculpted models look more lively than a lot of the plastic GW models but that's part of the reason why kitbashing with them is so fun.

@monophthalmus3254 24 күн бұрын

Also, unposable. I cannot stand the mono-pose minis.

@Headpool98 24 күн бұрын

Realistically, how many poses could you get out of posable miniatures?

@LoganGrimmnar 24 күн бұрын

@@Headpool98 more than one. 🥴

@Headpool98 24 күн бұрын

@@LoganGrimmnar two poses stretched out over 20 minis is really not that much.

@Muukip 24 күн бұрын

@@Headpool98 Yeah. And you can still arm and headswap a lot of the contemporary GW minis

@LiamBarden 24 күн бұрын

There's still all sorts of ways you can convert monopole minis, and the results often look much better than the old ball and socket minis. There's a bunch of videos out there on this topic

@stevenborman9110 24 күн бұрын

I sometimes used sprue glue to glue the mini and then as it gets tacky ish, use TET to smooth out the squidge out or sculpting tools as well

@redsven7624 23 күн бұрын

Definitely something I can see, working on Star wars legion, Crisis protocol, burrows and badgers and other minis I find them much more enjoyable to work on. The building is also so much quicker, in part due to the number of peices and gaps but also the deeper more dense sprue seem to cause far more flash which needs cleaning.

@bristlebauss78 24 күн бұрын

The thought of prepping, cleaning, assembling and gaping filling modern kits puts me off building newer stuff and as a result not painting as much. As stunning as the minis are, the amount of work involved before even priming is daunting. It’s one of many contributing factors to how I’ve been falling out of love with warhammer the past couple years.

@cosmoceratops 24 күн бұрын

i fill gaps with sprue goo, smooth it out with thin plastic cememt, and prime with spray cans. Usually the thicker primer hides any imperfections, at least from arms length.

@shyzunk 24 күн бұрын

I just painted some Northgard minis and was amazed by how good it looks on the table after a fairly simple paintjob. They have old style exaggerated details and are somewhat cartoony, and it made painting them an absolute joy, but because they are intentionally stylized it does not take away from their presence on the table. After that I picked up Blood Rage expecting to speed through that one, and got absolutely bogged down but seven trillion random metal rings and pieces everywhere that I had to paint individually but that are so oddly placed and plentiful they can easily just blend into the background once painted because there is no simple surface without bits and bobs to contrast with them. Just a uniform sea of little unidentifiable thingies. Such a pain to make look even decent... And dont even get me started on the Wrath of Kings minis from CMON where they are beautiful but I had to literally cut out ca 5mm of plastic to put them together, because they rely on such precision even the slightest warping of the material makes it impossible to fit all the pieces in...

@ninjamikeus 7 күн бұрын

1000% but GW doesn’t give a fuck as long as their plastic keeps selling.

@krsboss 22 күн бұрын

💯...I also wish they would pay more attention to where the model parts join the sprue...it shits me to tears when they join a SM pauldron, for example, right in the middle of the smooth rounded surface! ...just put it on the edge ffs

@Magnus_Mundus 24 күн бұрын

Recently i have picked up products from other miniature companies like Victrix, Fireforge Games and Northstar and I had so much fun with building and painting these miniatures like i didn't have with Warhammer products anymore. And it was waaaaay more cost effective 😅

@Lanessar8008 24 күн бұрын

Honestly, your Grimdark Black Templar video got me back into Warhammer painting (I was just going to put together some orc minis for my IRL DND group), so after watching you clean up mould lines and gap fill, I cannot now unsee what you are talking about when I assemble minis. You ruined me, I blame you, and my OCD will not let me "just skip that part".

@chrispygingerpie 24 күн бұрын

Interesting thoughts, I have definitely found building minis has gotten harder in recent years. I have dyslexia and I just get overwhelmed trying to cut out 12 bits for one dude. Takes a long time.

@przemekkielczewski9248 24 күн бұрын

Some time ago I built ambots for Necromunda, one leg was roughly 10 parts. I needed instruction to be sure I didn't miss anything and those robots are very monopose as well. Good news is there was almost no gap filling needed. I really struggle with gap filling, especially on large models, my best friend for this is Tamiya Extra Thin, but unfortunately there are moments when you need epoxy putty or green stuff.

@Whitebot187 21 күн бұрын

Yeah I really feel the same. While on the one hand the minis are so much better than they used to be on the other hand I always try to simplify them. The first I usually do with most gw minis is to shave of a lot of the details to give the remaining details some room to shine and to give the model a less cluttered and better readable silhouette.

@3reshKigal 12 күн бұрын

Wow i was saying the same yesterday when i was building some tyranids for a golden demon/ monte san savino project. Spot on! I spent a day filling gaps on a Carnifex.

@TonyEmeryPG20mm 14 күн бұрын

I'm totally with you. I do love the quality of these newer style models of GW and other companies, but my favourite miniatures to paint are my Newline Designs 20mm ancients. They are detailed enough to see what they represent and a joy to paint likewise if I could choose I would have 90s GW metal sculpts over the new stuff. Partly nostalgia but mostly they're more enjoyable to paint and as you become better at painting the "just right" amount of detail provides more of a canvass.

@HappyDuude 24 күн бұрын

It would be useful if they keep doing this, maybe theres a way to make things deliberately designed for subassemblies or painting & cleanup spaces. Basically extend the design to go beyond the aesthetic, but also actively help the builder

@Vorpal_Wit 24 күн бұрын

The people who sculpt the minis are often NOT the people who cut them up for sprue layout and undercut-checking. This may actually contribute to the mess. Two different skill sets, each trying to do the best job - the former is trying to create a dynamic interesting figure while the later is trying to part out the mini in such a ways at to retain the dynamism without having to kick it back down to the sculptor for changes. I am certain the sculptors have been told to not worry about the difficulties of cutting up a miniature for production - it the miniature world equivalent of fixing it in post. I believe there is a happy medium to be found, but you are right, something needs to change for this to happen, and its always going to be a moving target, with some over and under shooting of the issue.

@PriyanMeewella 23 күн бұрын

I only recently came back to the hobby so I have been really experiencing this shift in a very stark way, particularly as my painting time is split between my old collection and new releases. The crispness of new designs is a fantastic improvement, but the detail creep and chore of assembly is a drawback. I really want the crispness of modern models with a focus on stylisation rather than detail.

@ratbaby3107 Күн бұрын

For gaps, I just do my best with regular plastic glue and assembly. If there's still gaps after that, as long as they aren't massive, I just don't worry about it. My paint jobs aren't good enough for it to really be too much of a dig anywau

@chaoticpainting1507 14 күн бұрын

Me personally, I do enjoy the process for prepping the minis.. although scraping and scraping mold lines does get a bit arduous after awhile.. I have noticed my gap filling abilities have gotten quite good over the years due to the fact that there most often are gaps that either have to be molded together with plastic glue/sprue goo and then sanded down to invisible or possibly either milliput or green stuff. I would rather take the time and make it look like it's supposed to vs just leaving it and trying to paint something with mold lines and gaps.. it's like nails on a chalk board to my eyes.. I don't care if I've already primed a mini, if I find a mold line I missed, you best believe i'm going to fix it..

@KaptinKhern 24 күн бұрын

I'm in the Warhammer hobby for 30 years now and I totally agree with you. Especially Citadel models have to many details and parts nowadays. It's a drag for me to get it all glued and painted. I'm not saying the metal models were perfect... But still, my preference goes out to the older stuff and that's why I am thrilled with The Old World and the re-release of older models.

@pimvandergeer7179 24 күн бұрын

A nice example of a smarter kit is the new mandrakes. I loved building those, most lines run behind folds, and some on the torso go into the recessed tattoo like designs on the skin, really fantastic kit. Had a lot of fun making those, anticipate the painting will be great as well. 😊 ( Still working on the colours,paints and techniques I'll use in my head. Busy with chaos this month anyway.)

@emceha 24 күн бұрын

I have one of the Necron Cryptecs in psrts in a jar for three years now, because it's flimsy hard to assemble. From the other hand, I 3d printed some "proxy" marines from cults that have ball joints in waist and easy to move arms. Boy it was a blast to put together, Some of them look wonky because of poses but I can't help but smile when I see my marines pointing and looking up at the opponent from the table, or they look at the ground or to the side. What a bunch of goofs.

@tommyakesson8858 24 күн бұрын

As a retro-enjoyer I must say I LOVE going back to them now that Warhammer- The Old World is here. Yeah. The swords are too big. Some hands as well. But they have just the right amount of detail. And a TON of charm. Its like playing SNES games. Are modern games , strictly speaking, better? In a way yes. But no amount of RTX On or extra controller support or whatever can take the place of brilliant design. And SNES often worked so well within its medium. I feel the same way with minis. Newer ones are "better". But I dont always prefer them. I understand newer players not likeing them. Same as some people not likeing the pixel-art of yesteryear. There is ofc some drawbacks in haveing fewer parts when assembling. But damn. I spent like 5 hours assembling the Treeman Ancient Im currently working on. Skill issue? Perhaps. But still

@nordrako1613 24 күн бұрын

I had this exact problem with the kruelboyz chaman. I had a ton of issues fitting the pieces and now it has so many gaps to fill

@TheCatHerder 24 күн бұрын

I have been enjoying twin goddess minis and pin ups primarily because they offer large flat surfaces to paint. I agree that the current trend is leaning towards too many details, but I think those also make it much easier to use time saving methods like contrast paint and washes. Details give places for pigment to settle and look nice, but smooth areas are prone to staining.

@HaseOster 18 күн бұрын

Assembling is my favourite part of the process, but I completely agree with you - because overdesigning gets in the way of conversion and kitbashing.

@jerrymail 3 күн бұрын

Well before being a miniature gamer, I was (and I'm still) an aircraft/ military modeler. So no problems with assembly, sanding, filling gaps etc...

@Slurgical_3D_Terrain_Channel 24 күн бұрын

Sometimes it bothers me. I’m old, so I’m used to imperfect models with billions little parts like tanks, planes and other models like that. But sometimes I just want to get on with it. It’s like 3D printers, I’m a tinkerer, so soldering rebuilding improving printers is great, but other time, like now, I want to get things done and moving forward so I can focus on my craft and business without the hassle. So I’m with you on many aspects.

@Godonstilts 24 күн бұрын

I'm not afraid to either never build certain details (if they can be left off without being noticed - i.e. unless you know the model really well, you won't know it's missing) - or, I will also just clip details off if I can get away with them. Detail is good, but there is a limit because its not just building, but its painting every tiny little detail - this adds up across armies!!

@ComEliazar 24 күн бұрын

Absolutely. After having a lot of fun building the ten part ballistus dreadnought, I am only now taking the million part redemptor out of the box again after months... But even more annoying is that everything is full of a million frilly details, so in addition to gap filling, I spend a lot of time scratching off or filling in these things.

@lolsovs 12 күн бұрын

This overpowering level of detail in modern sculpts are so evident in the AoS mini vs the "newly" released Old World minis. While some of the old sculpts could use a hand (looking at you TK skellies) most of them are great, just the right level of detail for rank and file troops - I dont want to paint 250 rivets on each models armor etc

@pazuzu_666 24 күн бұрын

Mould lines I can deal with as coming from an industry where we cast housings for our electronic devices, I understand they can never be 100% eliminated. Someone has to remove them. Gaps and seams however can be controlled via better planning during the slicing of the model. I get that GW (and myself) includes building as part of the hobby but having too many complex parts is unnecessary. There should be a happy medium between the trifecta of building steps, cleanup, and a great looking model. I too was looking forward to the Darkoath box, but after looking through the instructions, my desire definitely waned.

@getterkaiserz 23 күн бұрын

Its why ive been getting into retro minis from the earlier eras like anything pre 2000s.. Lately been tackling the jes goodwin original skaven and they qre alot of fun to paint

@Kinaro666 24 күн бұрын

I had a building issue with one of the new kroxigors from the seraphon range, I wanted to make the over head swing pose and because of how awkward you have to glue the parts in, one arm endened up not fitting at all! I even double checked I used the right parts... and after having to pull the mini apart before the glue had set I still could not get it to fit right. I must say I do prefer the old GW plastic range then there new more dinamic look. Its ok for hero models but for rank and rile troops I do find it annoying how it takes me hours to build them.