Why Oram did what he did according to Billy Crudup, "Oram lost his wife and part of his crew, because he made a decision to come to this planet. So what was he hoping to accomplish by going with David into that basement?" "You've got a character who goes through a crisis of faith, and their foundation is shaken and fractured, and they don't have the ability to make the best choices with the resources that they have. You want a moment of redemption, and the writers offered that in this moment, where [Oram] has to make a conscious decision about what it means for him to be a loving, thoughtful and passionate person in the world if he doesn't have this rigid dogma to hold on to. What is his litmus test? Ultimately it comes down to the protection of the people he loves. The crew that now he is in charge of taking care of. So when someone appears to be a dangerous influence, he finds the courage in himself to address it head-on. So that makes it a great moment of redemption and allows me to play right into Michael's hands as David, because David is the little puppet master there. [Oram's] moment of rising up ends up being his downfall, but you do have this moment where you think, "I'm so glad Oram was able to resurrect his belief in humanity and himself."

My interpretation was that Auram was a survivor of abuse within the church when he was a boy, and instead of allowing it to destroy his faith, he clung ever harder to it. David's perverse behaviour and closeted actions reminded him of his abuser. This may also explain why he looked into the egg without hesitation, he was determined not to give in to his own fear.

IMO, I think the line is a way of presenting Orum as a dark mirror to Shaw: Both are people of faith. Shaw's faith made her optimistic, curious and kind-hearted (traits which David would later take advantage of). Orum by comparison was hardened and slow to trust.

I wish they hadn't left out so many little details from the movie, kinda bothers me that you need to go out and buy the novelisation just to learn stuff they left out of the movie.

He saw David was evil, was hiding evil intentions. Knows evil in all it's disguises.

He knows what evil is, and he finally realized that David was no bueno. But still put his face over the egg.

By this time, Oram knows that everyone will die unless he confronts David. All he can hope to do is force David to show his hand, thereby warning the others. Oram wasn't being stupid or suicidal [although he felt responsible for the crew deaths] when he looked into the egg, he was testing David. And he was right: David couldn't be trusted. This has been a minor theme in film lately: Protagonist putting themselves into situations where the bad-guy can't help but take advantage. Good-guy knows the other guy is Evil, but needs proof, motivation or justification before taking definitive action. Sometimes the Good-guy dies, which galvanizes their crew to 'do the right thing'. "Avenge me!" as the Hero lays dying carries the story forward with more gravitas than "He may be a bad guy, let me explain in great detail all the evidence that I have gathered over the last few days. I can prove with geometric logic that there is a bad-guy, and that David might be this bad guy. Unless, of course, all the horrors we have seen were really was just a series of bizarre accidents, and David is just badly misunderstood."

I always took it to mean he encountered a malfunctioning android as a kid that tried to kill him or his family or something, and therefore he recognizes David is up to something and he is letting David know he knows that.

His devil was men who thought they were divine.

I really liked the crew of the Covenant, I cared about them and I think Oram was a compelling character. The novelisation was a nice supplement to what we got onscreen.

I really love all your alien video's. They are very intelligently told and full of depth.

The gift of tongues as described in the New Testament is nothing at all like the speaking-in-gibberish beloved by the Pentecostalists. What is actually described in the Bible is a group of apostles preaching to a racially, culturally and linguistically diverse crowd, all of whom _simultaneously_ heard the sermon _in their own native language_ (whatever that happened to be). It's the gift of being understood by everybody, as opposed to the phenomenon of blurting out garbage that's intelligible to nobody. What Oram ultimately succumbs to is curiosity, and therein perhaps lies another biblical metaphor.

I did like Oram as a character, shame we didn't get much of him, he had a potentially interesting character arc. Billy is a great actor too.

Easy he met Jack Napier as a kid: "Tell Me Kid..You Ever Dance, With The Devil In The Pale Moon Light..? >:•D"

I think he met Shrek when he was a child

Just found your channel and I love it man. I sure hope we get to see this story continued, covenant has been one of my favorite movies of all time

That'll be just my wild guess, but I think that almost every "mystery" in covenant is created just by editing, re-editing, and re-editing of re-editing while production of this film. It already happened in Alien3, but that was an blind luck and the last time, they managed to pull of a decent movie of the franchise. This is nothing. And yes: while watching it for a first time, I was curious what happened in the past of captain Oram, to make such a remark, but later... I said it at the beginning.

I'm glad u cleared this up for me! Rhanks

Love your Alien videos!

Outstanding content! Keep it up!

I think it's a really weird and off kilter line but something about it makes Oram more interesting and mysterious. You have this guy that's nice to a fault, you almost see him as too naive and foolish to be Captain. And suddenly he's revealed to be someone that has probably been through something very traumatic and life changing which adds a dark side to this otherwise pristine character. I love scenes in horror movies where an actor says some off-the-wall, provocative shit. Kind of reminds me of that "Jesus wept" line from Hellraiser.

Very interesting and awesome video !

Good show! Want more Sir Ridley!

You summed it up perfectly. Oram’s entire life was centered around people who claimed to have all the answers, knowledge or the “ultimate truth”, and seeing first hand the hypocrisy in their statements by their savage beatings, he knew not to be so open minded to radical ideologies. He knew exactly what David was doing and how it was wrong. Too bad this foresight didn’t end up saving him.

I don't care what other people think, I rather enjoyed Covenant.

Oram is the kind of guy who's parents told him not to take candy from strangers and then he would go ahead and take candy from a stranger...

Brilliant work! Loving your videos. Hooked!!

Like both of Scott’s recent reentries to the Alien Universe, he lets characters do insanely stupid things for no reason. If he thought David was the Devil and “could see though his lies” why would he accept David’s explanation that looking inside the egg was “perfectly safe, I assure you.” Wouldn’t Oram automatically assume he’s lying. Even though he’s captain, and has already lost a bunch of people to the Alien’s which David clearly has a reverence, and wants to seek answers, I don’t understand why he would throw away all common sense, and even his own faith in what he’s seen to look inside the egg.

I think he was referring to abuse of power. How priests use privilege and power to abuse the innocent and how a science virtue mission is really a mission to get weapons of death.

Alien Theory, please make a vid regarding the state of Elizabeth Shaw's, dissected body. I've yet to see any video, anywhere, on this topic!! What the hell are the bone like 'growths' around Her head?! It almost seems like Her head had been..encased(?) for some reason(?), then prized open again. I'd be V' interested to hear other view's on exactly how Her remains got that way?? Was She alive, while this happened to Her?? Lol I want to know!! (poor Shaw) Thanks Guy's..and, (hopefully) Alien Theory ;)

I think you nailed this one!

Like promethus just watch the deleted scenes they left out good stuff

Covenant would have been so much better if they included this background stuff for the crew in the movie itself. Oram's faith seems like such a pointless detail without it being in the movie to frame his narrative. Instead of spending time in the pre-credits sequence with David and Weyland, they could have spent it focusing on the crew. They could have replaced some of the down time on the planet with more crew character building... I liked Covenant, as a movie it entertained me, but at the same time I realize there was just so much dumb stuff. Like Prometheus, it was just a good movie that could have been great.

Alien Theorist So many of us Alien fans miss all the different videos that you put out and the other top KZfaq channel guys when Alien Covenant was not quite released then released!!! On the Alien fan website is this that popped up last Thursday. ALIEN: EARTH BOUND: THE ALIEN 3 SEQUEL THAT NEVER GOT MADE! Please please please!! Do a video on this!!

insightful.

From all of the characters in this universe, this one qualifies as completly disposable

Love this film. Actually, I didn't even think of this line. But it opens my eyes for sure. :)

on point. perfect

I think you nailed the most likely meaning!

An undertone of remembrance.... "it's like... I remember..." 😅😂🤣

I'm not sure if this is video is regarding more or less to novelization of this movie, but I listened to a podcast put out by Empire Magazine interviewing Ridley Scott about this movie. This was one of the questions the interviewer asked Ridley and if I'm remembering correctly he said Billy Crudup brought the line to the table and Scott liked his presentation and made him think it pertained to molestation he may have experienced over and over. He liked how it fit in the movie and character. I found the podcast on SoundCloud if anyone wants to fact check me.

Great video as always! How long before the next instalment, do you think?

Now I'm watching this video for first time and after I saw covenant with my uncle he had speculated that may be when oram said "David I met the devil when I was a child"possibly he was molested as a kid and keep in mind I'm watching this before this video also btw love your channel alien theory

Awesome series here ! I watched all alien movies & both prometheus & covenant movies're definetly wasn't near as bad as these usual (possiblity & usually braindead highschooler) Cringe Trolls are claiming to be; yet almost all of them blindly likes Cliché super hero movies; the irony

Good detective work

Loved your video content. I agree with your comparison of Oram's remark to the strict laws of being brought up in an overlord type of religion. You will see the devil behind some typical overzealous as well as hypocritical laws of right and wrong, do exist in these types of religions. I speak from experience myself.....

whats the background music?

He meant, he met the devil as a child, and was utterly violated and brutalized by him.

I never understood the cpt "well...statues of giants" comment when she says "they were giants" as they enter the flight deck on the juggernaut?

Seems a good analysis.

I think the bigger question is why he trusted David's promise of the egg being safe before sticking his nose in it. Worst. Captain. Ever.

I think the ambiguity of what he was referring to is more scary that any direct explanation. A really great line in a movie I didn't much care for.

I think people are way too hard on this movie. Most people can only say "it's shit" "the writing is bad" but never explain how. It's not a perfect movie by any means but jesus christ, chill.

I really like the background music. What's it called?

Wasn't Oram referring to an experience he had as a child, which led to his love of his faith? Isn't that what it takes to convince someone that fairies are real?

Had the Covenant made it to Origae-6, do you think they would have landed and then dismantled the ship to build the colony structures, like they did in the novelization of the Hadley's Hope Colony in ALIENS?

I always just figured he met my ex.

probably not related but I think Aristotle had a quote about the true hero's tragedy is when he comes face to face with his true identity or character. some of us meet the devil as children that way in the midst of some learning what not to do only after having done whatever it was that was bad.

Oram was rationalising events according to his worldview, and it has some resonance because he was right - David was evil. Some of the dialogue in the novelisation gives Covenant more depth and my main criticism of Covenant was the dialogue was a bit ropey, superficial and shallow.

Captain oram was bummed when he was a kid by his special uncle

i imagine that line is there because of oram were in contact with an david model in his youth

I could agree

I think he meant “I have autism and will blindly trust a robot that shat a brick when I killed an alien that just killed my shipmate”

Oh yeah? I danced with the devil in the pale moonlight

I always thought Oram was a bit of a crappy character to be honest, but this definitely shed's a bit more light on him. great video buddy.

I agree with funnypenguin18, I wonder if Franko's character would have done that.

I know this is a probably an odd question, that many may already know the answer to but what does the Yutani is the name Wayland Yutani Represent?

"I know a son of a bitch when I see one." - Jerry, the synthetic Alien

Great videos. Subscribed & liked. In scripture when the apostles are said to be speaking in 'tongues' the context makes it crystal clear that 'tongues' refers to different 'languages'. The gobbledygook that modern Christian's call 'tongues' is just that....gobbledygook.

Whatever it’s meaning I still find it very stupid to call someone the Devil and then just minutes willfully trust him enough to look into a Xeno egg.

All I know is that he never should have trusted David and put his face in the egg.

I'm Pentecostal and I've never been abused in anyway shape or form. That's not how it is with Apostolic Pentecostals. If someone says their Pentecostal, they must show it in deed. And that deed is always love. Our only job is love, any and all judgement is for the Lord. (just throwing that out there)

no he thought he saw the devil till he looked in the egg.

Did anyone else notice that Oram was probably the least fit among everyone to lead the Covenant? It seems like this might have been done by design either by David or Weyland-Yutani as that their mission was actually that outlined by David's transmissions and not one expected to succeed as a colonization mission.

It means that he had a bad childhood, he thought his father was a devil cuz he used to beat him every day. :(

he meet the predator

Dammit I need that book..

What is the suit the engineer is wearing

Given the mention of him being a "man of faith" I thought he was mentioning one gloomy encounter with the Devil and I think his background as described in your video doesn't very much contradict that.

He meant he was about to seriously fuck up David's perfect composure, but didn't.

Maybe, when he was a child, David was his Babysitter or Butler.

These comments here just show how the audience is not willed to think about a movie..they want easy selfsexplaining storys and everything thats a bit deeper is beeing called "bad writing". Well i personally think this movie has a pretty interesting touch of religion. From the very first scene until the end. Its about david who wants to be bigger then his creator. Satan wanted to be bigger then his creator 'god'. So when oram says he knows how the devil looks...he believes that a beeing that tries to recreate life in his own ways will always be a devil. God is perfect an makes no mistakes but as soon as the creations try to create on their own and try to be better then god then all they create is imperfection and evil stuff. David thinks he is perfekt but all he creates is a evil monster...and what for? Only to be bigger then his creators. Its the beginnig of the whole saga...when the enineers tried to create own worlds an life...they come up with imperfect beeing like humans and other races...so later they tried to kill them off again with the black goo....but everything got worse...and their imperfect creation, the humans, try to create on their own also...so they come up with androids. And the android wants to create too...and he comes up with the xenomorph. and this biblical ironie...you go the way of satan and all he will bring you in the end is death....this whole movie is about how beeings make a choice if they go with the devil or god. David is doomed. When he fights walter he asks him what would be better? Beeing on gods side but as a slave or beeing in hell but as a ruler....and thats just what its about. David is the devil in person...just like alot of other beeings too. No respect in gods creation..trying to be god himself...just like the engineers thought they could be god...just like humans thought they could be god.....its no wonder why ridley scott put in religious aspects in prometheus and covenent. Its what he wants to tell us....humanity will create something which will bring us nothing but death when we go on playing god and create synthetic lifeforms...at least one of our tries will go completley wrong and kill us all off....

It was a quote aimed at david who quotes phylocify from greek roman and so forth i meet the devil as a child and have never forgotten him as he has not forgotten me so i look for his works against men god and myself and stay vigilant for his return. He let david know he know some of what he was doing but was unsure if he was the devil or just a tool and wanted to know more the part where he looks right in to the egg is just that humans are curious creatures and do dumb stuff

Covenant, Covenant..., can you read me? Covenant, we had some casualties.... i repeat we had some casualties to the Alien Franchise. Please come down and pick us up, cuz Ridley is doing diddly doodly doo :(

"You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?"

maybe he experienced a exorcist...

What did he mean by this /tv/?

From what I understand there's a passage that goes "The spirit of the prophet knows the spirit of the prophets" so the people that practice it are supposed to be able to discern the difference from what they call a "spirit of praise", that is someone simply speaking directly from their spirit forgoing their mind so it isn't cluttered and they're just uttering solemn worship words (which they're eventually supposed to learn to do in private worship) and from someone that is speaking something to be interpreted as a message for the group. If they're not well practiced and knowledgeable there's always the danger of the congregation over sensationalizing the event and they can get caught up in awe of the moment and miss something or become deceived by what they refer to as "a lying spirit taking over". Lying spirits were supposedly used by God to speak through prophets to misdirect rulers and guide them to their doom. I suppose the modern interpretation is one sent to misdirect a church. An extreme example in pop culture might be that character in the Poltergeist films that lead his frontier congregation to commit suicide. The popular concept of Pentecostals today are usually the type spoken of by people like Marilyn Manson who grew up in a deeply religious group but they were far from the ideal. I remember him speaking of his grandfather that was a devout member of such a group but he was a sexual deviant and their church group had predators. Manson became disillusioned by these people. I do know other denominations dismiss the practice entirely citing that a prophet and his abilities were supposed to point to the coming of Christ and his purpose and since he's basically been and gone there's no reason for anyone to have a prophetical gift anymore. For the Oram character I suppose it just comes down to his been deceived and traumatized before and was again to his final doom. (...I did an independent study of the occult and religions when I was in high school)

How do you think they don't make the movies more like the novel

I felt bad for the captain. He didn't deserve the end he got

I'm a huge fan of the Alien franchise. I'm just curious- how did you get into Alien franchise and are you a massive fan like me?

i felt that what he said was just that, he could see threw davids bs

He met Ridley Scott as a child.

Each of the installments of this series are drastically different. I would like to think that the alien franchise has resulted in so many movies and comics with so many breaks in continuity for a reason. Perhaps the fascination and popularity will make it a new "classic monster." Many different series center on things like vampires, zombies, werewolves. Perhaps what is giving fans gray hair about what is and what isn't cannon now is just the beginning of that?

+Alien Theory I actually saw ALIEN COVENANT for the first time over this past weekend and thought it was a great movie. I know the (acting) captain did have a dark past and (good) David was trying to share commonality between him and the (acting) captain but yet the (Good) David did have the same personalities from (Prometheus) David but tried to share some indiviudal traits. He mainly hinted this over to him that yes he may look they same as (Prometheus) David but mind wise (Good) David he's much different despite knowing both Davids can have a god complex that make them act like devils. (Prometheus) David proves this point by explaining that he cared for Shaw and how he hoped she was not going to be the sole survivor (and eventually die) at the hands of the engineers who planned on wiping out Earth so (Prometheus) David took that new alien and started breeding it as a species and evolved it into better species then when they became quite advanced he took them and stroke first against the engineers and apparently wiped them out first. Thus making him a god and a devil at the same time.

I learned that he was talking about his grandfather who was very abusive and highly religious. He saw his grandfather as the devil and that's why he said he never forget his face. Also in one of the deleted scenes he is holding and looking at a picture that has a old man in it. That old man was Oram's devil of a grandfather.

The entire time I'm watching Danny McBride I'm expecting him to pull out a doobie and light it or ride off into the distant sunset on a jetski, mullet a flappin in the wind while Freebird plays from, seemingly, Heaven. I can't take him seriously. I can't. He was typecast comedy/idiot stoner the first 10 times I saw him and I can't unsee it now, nor likely ever will I.

1. He saw the Yautja. I know it's no longer in-universe. 2. He was molested by a priest at a young age and brain coded it as "devil", raised in overzelous environment he never spoke of it abd became a man of blind faith as well.

He saw Lost Season 4 & 5

As usual, Alan Dean Foster makes everything better. Oram was a much better realized character in the novelization. But then, so was everyone in the Alien novelization. And Alien 3. Etc.