If Not Moses, Who? Origin of the Pentateuch

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If Not Moses, Who? Origin of the Pentateuch

Рет қаралды 6,058

Күн бұрын

If Moses didn't write the Pentateuch, then who did?
Even though there is disagreement about the specific ways in which the Torah was put together, biblical scholars all agree on certain key points. Dr. Joel Baden of Yale Divinity School tells us what those key points are!
Click HERE for the full interview! • Did Moses Write the To...
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For general information and sources relating to the Ancient Near East, we recommend these websites:
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Livius.org - bit.ly/2Gzj5rx (general encyclopedia on the ancient world)
ETCSL - bit.ly/2QJsAZS (Sumerian literature)
ORACC - bit.ly/2QJsL7u (collection of projects relating to Mesopotamia)
EPSD - bit.ly/2PY99aw (Online Sumerian dictionary)
CDLI - cdli.ucla.edu (Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative)
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Music: Brak Bnei Original Composition

Пікірлер: 49

@yeinerperez46 4 жыл бұрын

Please, we need KZfaq Channels like this one in spanish. I'm glad i studied english and it gives me the opportunity of listening to you guys. Please, the hispanic world needs people like you. Finally, i just want to express how deeply i admire you. Greetings from Costa Rica.

@What_If_We_Tried 3 ай бұрын

Agree 100% that this information in Spanish is very much needed.

@robertbennett270 4 жыл бұрын

And straight over for the full interview...ty Dr J

@jaaaspokenjay5778 4 жыл бұрын

Love your work. Thank you. Keeps it up.

@BrantAxt 4 жыл бұрын

Yes this is a great idea to split up the highlights for people that don't have time for the whole interview

@0nlyThis 4 жыл бұрын

Evidently, every single copy of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers having been totally destroyed in the razing of the Temple by the Babylonians, all four books had to be totally rewritten from memory by the Persian official, Ezra. The heretofore unknown fifth book of Deuteronomy was discovered miraculously preserved within the walls of the razed Temple. Such good fortune!

@nathanjasper512 4 жыл бұрын

So do you think it was kind of like how we have the four canonical gospels and someone took all those separate literary threads and kind of wove them together?

@smithpeter3629 4 жыл бұрын

No, Moses, the Egyptian, did not write, nor any god, the Pentateuch. A cabal of plagiarizers and plain manipulators did. And to think that such a half baked collection of contradictions passes for sacred is amazing.

@thaliart 4 жыл бұрын

I agree

@oceanmachine1906 3 жыл бұрын

Exactly this.

@sbushido5547 4 жыл бұрын

So much of youtube atheist/religious material is focused on what the literalists believe, that it's nice to be reminded that nothing is even remotely as simple as their proposed "explanations," either for the origin and authorship of these texts or the origins of life and the universe. Even if half of this stuff goes over my head.

@robertpalumbo9089 4 жыл бұрын

History is messy

@interestingreligion5204 4 жыл бұрын

Do people think that your lay person sitting in the pews is bothered about this sort of information. From my conversations most are undeterred in their faith. However i think understanding the historical side is more important.

@DigitalHammurabi 4 жыл бұрын

These are not geared toward the lay person sitting in the pews.

@interestingreligion5204 4 жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi i agree and i think that is the frustrating part, most dont even know or even care about some really good historical facts about the bible,when i think they should.

@interestingreligion5204 4 жыл бұрын

Really enjoyed your snippet. Thank you.

@WalterRMattfeld Жыл бұрын

This video is titled "If not Moses. Who? Origin of the Pentateuch." We are not informed in this video as to THE WHO might possible be? In the past, some scholars have suggested "THE WHO" might possibly be Hilkiah the high priest, who claimed to have found the Torah during renovations in the Temple: 2 Kings 22:8 KJV "And Hil-ki-ah the high priest said unto Sha-phan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord."

@davidfenton3910 11 ай бұрын

The who is most succinctly Plato and in particular Plato's Laws. Best research into this I know of is by Russell G in "Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible". Russell is in a number of YT vids easily found via search. sincerely david

@y11971alex 4 жыл бұрын

Has anyone explored the idea that the exodus to Egypt might be a foil the exile to Babylon?

@WalterRMattfeld 9 ай бұрын

(12 November 2023 Sunday, 07:30 p.m. EST) An anachronism within the Torah or Pentateuch can perhaps help in establishing WHEN the text was written and by WHOM? The anachronism? Genesis 36:32 and The mention of the Edomite capital of BOZRAH. Genesis 36:32 KJV: "And Bela died, and Jobab the son of Zerah of BOZRAH reigned in his stead." Bozrah (modern Buseirah in present day Jordan) was excavated in the 1970's and determined from its pottery debris to be no earlier than the 8th century BC (the 700s BC). We are informed in 2 Kings 22:8 that the High Priest, Hilkiah, "found the book of the law" in the Temple: 2 Kings 22:8 KJV "And Hilkiah the high priest...found the book of the law in the house of the LORD..." How interesting! Bozrah is no earlier than the 8th century BC according to archaeologists, and this site appears in the Torah allegedly found in the 7th century BC by Hilkiah. Could it be that 8th century BC Bozrah was 100 years old when it appeared in the 7th century BC text found by Hilkiah? If this be so, perhaps it was Hilkiah who oversaw the writing of the Book of the Law, the Law being the Torah in Hebrew? This would account for this anachronism, i.e. an 8th century BC Bozrah appearing in an allegedly found 7th Century BC Torah? If this be so (?) the Torah is accordingly a fraudulent account, claiming to have been composed by Moses ca. 1446 BC based on 1 Kings 6:1.

@user-re5xg4ds6u 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@helenaconstantine 4 жыл бұрын

"the written documents (from which the narrative traditions of the Bible had been formed) had an oral folk history long antedating their literary composition. While accepting that the Yahwistic and Elohistic sources reflected the period of the monarchy, they argued that this late context was decisively applicable only to the final editorial additions and harmonizations involved in the process of unifying a previously oral tradition. The Yahwist and Elohist were not understood as authors, let alone as historians of Israel's past, but much more restrictively as collectors and editors of a variety of legends and folk traditions of disparate date and origin." Tommy Thompson, Early History of the Israelite People, 8. So in other words J and E represent hundreds of different sources which were merely compiled. One imagines one of the Jews in Babylon with some interest in history writing/ compiling traditions known to him, another doing the same thing across town unknown to the first; the nephew of one getting a hold of both of them and make a new compilation, and so on, editing in things they read, things they heard, and things they merely wished (like Israel committing the genocide against the Canaanites) until the last compilation emerged as whatever documents were taken back to Jerusalem where they underwent further, highly ideological editing by the fanatics that ran that place. This explains the bizarre line by line alternation of sources in the flood story, clearly an editorial work in progress that was never finished. J, P, and E. doesn't sound like a good description of this.

@newclarence 4 жыл бұрын

It wasn't me; I got an alibit.

@Justinsatiable 4 жыл бұрын

I know one thing ... It wasn't God.

@nero3901 4 жыл бұрын

Amen

@tariq_sharif 4 жыл бұрын

Spot on ... you do not need to know much more than that... same for quran and any other book

@mikedonigan6665 4 жыл бұрын

Jesus saves!

@Justinsatiable 4 жыл бұрын

@@mikedonigan6665 from what?

@rokitman5753 4 жыл бұрын

@@mikedonigan6665 💖

@briancarney2231 3 жыл бұрын

Since the pentateuch seems to echo everything from Plato, ie laws, literary aspects, metaphysical angles and then gets a double serving of foundation myth, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Greek aristocrats.

@robertpalumbo9089 4 жыл бұрын

I love that you are doing real exegesis

@ameradioactive8401 2 жыл бұрын

There are too many similarities between Greek mythology and the Torah, the creation of the world by the appearance of the Earth in the Chaos, 2 times accounting about creation of humanity, the worldwide flood, etc. Here are interesting similarities between Lucifer and Prometheus Prometheus: Before his fall he was one of the closest titans to Zeus, joining him in titanomachy. Lucifer: Before his fall, was one of the closest angels to God. Prometheus: Disrupts the order and will of Zeus in complicity with man made of clay. Lucifer: Disrupts the order and will of God in complicity with man made of clay. Prometheus: Bearing fire, symbolizing the gift of knowledge. Lucifer: Brings light, symbolizing the gift of knowledge. Prometheus: Brings knowledge to mankind, teaching them the gift of fire. Lucifer: Brings knowledge to mankind, encouraging them to eat from the tree of knowledge. Prometheus: cursed and condemned by Zeus because of man. Lucifer: cursed and condemned by God because of man. Prometheus: every morning the eagle of Zeus flies in to peck his liver, which is restored overnight. And so it goes day after day. Lucifer: also called the morning star, which every morning heralds the beginning of a new day to its end. And so it is day by day. Prometheus: because of Pandora's fire of knowledge and curiosity mankind is condemned to the suffering and torment of life. Lucifer: Because of the tree of knowledge and Eve's curiosity, mankind is condemned to the suffering and torment of life.

@rursus8354 4 жыл бұрын

Deuteronomy? Isn't it obvious who collated it? It was of course the scribes of Hilkia, the high priest of Josiah. Hilkia suddenly "discovering" a *lost* Book of Moses? Hilkia suddenly "recovering" the lost Ark of Covenant? Not likely and too transparent!! He let it be written and he let it be constructed to "prove" his and Josiah's Mosaic reform of the Israelite religion.

@ttown55 11 ай бұрын

“Major priestly stratom”. What the F does this mean? Why not use language normal and most non scholars use?

@postiepaul 6 ай бұрын

The priestly source is P in the JEPD hypothesis as any biblical scholar knows.

@kevinkall8547 4 жыл бұрын

Segmenting text into priestly and not is a bit distracting. One can easily determine authorship by what precedes the passage and that is the genealogy. The person who wrote it writes about their family tree and who were their ancestors. Obviously, there would not be one at the start of Genesis. The next passage would start on chp 5 with Noah describing his ancestors. The next passage starts with chp 11 which would have been written by Abraham. Starting with chp 25, this was written by Jacob. Chp 36 to the end was written by Joseph. Exodus 1:1 starts with yet another ancestral tree aka new author.

@DigitalHammurabi 4 жыл бұрын

Kevin Kall Please link your publications on the topic and relevant CV. Thank you.

@kevinkall8547 4 жыл бұрын

@@DigitalHammurabi You portray that being some type of scholar entry on a CV and the act of being published as something which one needs to do to show others that they know scripture means. Both of these can bring a sense of pride. Let’s see what scripture says about these types of people to lowly persons like me. First and foremost is Pauline verse 1 Corinthians 8:2 “If anyone thinks that he knows somewhat [through some formal schooling], he does not yet know as he should know.” Proverbs 16:5 “Everyone proud in heart is an abomination to יהוה; Hand to hand: he goes not unpunished.” Proverbs 11:2 “Pride comes, then comes shame; But with the humble is wisdom.” Psalm 25:9 “He guides the meek ones in right-ruling, And He teaches the meek ones His way.” Psalm 138:6 “Though יהוה is exalted, He looks on the humble; But the proud He perceives from a distance.” Luke 1:52 “He brought down rulers from their thrones, and exalted the lowly.” Both James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5 cite passage “Elohim resists the proud, but gives favour to the humble” which references Proverbs 3:34 “He certainly scorns the scorners, but gives favour to the humble.” Romans 12:16 “Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not be proud in mind, but go along with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.” Psalm 18:27 “For You יהוה save the afflicted people, but bring down those whose eyes are haughty.” I finish back on Paul’s letter to the Philippians 2:1-3 with emphasis on the last phrase “If, then, there is any encouragement in Messiah, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, having the same love, one in being and of purpose, doing none at all through selfishness or self-conceit, but *in humility consider others better than yourselves.*” and with the “Teach Me” Psalm 25 vs 4-5a, 9 & 14 "Show me Your ways, O יהוה; Teach me Your paths. Lead me in Your truth and teach me... He guides the meek ones in right-ruling, And He teaches the meek ones His way. The secret of יהוה is with those who fear Him, And He makes His covenant known to them." No mention of the need to update any CV after being enlightened.