ceave gaming made a good episode on why super mario 1 felt more enjoyable then 2. to boil down is discussion, its that the ui is counter intuitive and inconvenient, with poor priorities which made level building a chore rather than fun.

To this day we still don't know why they said "Extra Game Styles" (with an S), when there was only ONE extra game style (that being Mario 3D World)... Such a tease

The biggest issue was the searchability and lack of the amiibo skins. There needed to be a more community based search for levels. Also the amiibo skins added so much to the theming, if licensing was an issue just add in the Nintendo ones. Also 3D World being isolated just limited the game feeling more new.

You can tell a game is good when the biggest problem with the game is that there wasn’t more of it…

The big issue is the online service. If it was free there like in the Wii U, this game would be more alive.

Everytime I hear Mario Maker 2, I just feel sad, I was hyped for the game, I saw the direct, I bought the cartridge. But I always enjoy what others have to say about the game. The game isn't "ruined" in a sense as it's unplayable for me, but it just feels like it was wasted. There were 3 updates, that's it, with not much stuff in between. The last update was 2 years ago, and seeing all that potential that just went down the drain... I find it odd too, like Smash Ultimate had loads of updates, that game was given love and care while SMM2 feels like it's lacking that PUSH to update the game and be hyped for new things in the game. In short, the thing that ruins the game is NOT a new extra theme, but just the lack of support. Additionally if Nintendo makes a Mario Maker 3, you bet they'll close down the SMM2 servers, specifically not letting you upload levels.

13:22 I am so honored to have one of my levels featured in this video. Thank you, Demeech for playing it, and hope you enjoyed it. I do wish this game still had a vast player base. Of course you’ll always have people like Panga or DGR Dave who will always play this game, but it becomes harder to send levels for streamers on twitch and KZfaq to play, and it’s very sad because the possibilities with this game are infinite. Although I will say I personally think the super worlds need to be more fleshed out.

The biggest mistake was the 3DWorld theme being a separate thing. Why the actual hell is the fire bro exclusive to that theme when it’s been in nearly all the other represented games and would be the absolute easiest to add to those he hasn’t been in, just pallet swap the hammer bro and give him a fireball which is already present as Mario‘s and Piranha Plants main projectile

They stopped supporting it because it didn't sell. You can argue that more support would have sold more units, but that's not a guarantee. Nintendo didn't see enough interest in the title, and you can't just keep throwing good money after bad.

I think the worst thing about Maker 2 is the lack of level bookmark. With SMM1, I used to find levels during the week, bookmark them and then, play them during the week-end. They were all ready in the game. With SMM2, sure, I can note the level codes of the levels I want to play but having to write down every single code of every single level I want to play is just painful and way too time consuming (especially if you miss type)! Sadly though, the sheer existence of SMM2 also overshadows other amazing creative games like Levelhead or Super Dungeon Maker which actually have level bookmarks!

Some time after this game's release, Nintendo have started putting online play behind a paywall, making it strictly worse than Super Mario Maker 1. It's messed up enough that Nintendo is charging us to use our own online connections that we're already paying for, but it's even worse that you have to pay for online after having already paid full price for an essentially online-only game.

I feel like the reason this game wasn't as popular as the first was more due to how Nintendo treated the people who were trying to experiment with the game rather than the general audiences not liking it. I remember Ceave Gaming talking about how a lot of fun glitches that looked like harmless features were patched just because they didn't intend to include them or how if your level played around with those glitches, they often wouldn't allow you to upload it. It's also due to the fact that in Mario Maker 1, a lot of crazy things were possible which weren't in the sequel. Super Mario Maker 1 lived on because of those who pushed the limits of the game and wanted to prove what was possible and what wasn't. Levels that are impossible if you play an earlier version or if you die after the checkpoint, glitches that allow you to multiply enemies more than intended, levels that were so hard that they took 7 YEARS to beat and were never uploaded thanks to Nintendo's desire of shutting down the ability to upload courses because of its sequel. That's what I think made the first Mario Maker the more relevant game! It's kinda like Super Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl in a way. Objectively, Brawl is the better game. It's got the better roster, better story mode and tons of new content and yet, it suffered competitively. And yes, Smash 4 and Ultimate had better competitive scenes, but Melee is still being played competitively the most because of all the techniques and the players who pushed the game to its limits. Recently, aMSa rised in the community as a Yoshi main and even proved that, despite his flaws, his character is legitmately viable, like how HungryBox did with Jigglypuff (not sure if he has won a major yet tho, I didn't keep up with competitive Melee).

They really should’ve done a super Mario land 2 style. It would’ve saved them.

Where's the critique for SMB3's lack of new music for many themes? I get the original SMB3 had the same track for many areas, but seeing no new desert or forest music disappointed me anyway. The fact the game's MAIN PLAYING MODE, Course World, is stuck behind a paywall is IMO the main reason it didn't take off. Like, people didn't have to pay extra every year to keep Super Mario Maker 1 alive. It stayed alive because it was easy to understand and all you had to do was make, share online, look for levels, and play. In Super Mario Maker 2, making is a little more difficult, and you can't share online, or even look for and play user created levels without having to pay extra for the online service. And IMO, the Story Mode wasn't enough. If anything really needed to be updated, it was the amount of content you could play without having to go online. There's also the fact that Super Worlds, my most requested feature for the original, was not included in the game when it launched. First impressions make a big difference, so the ability to create world maps to put your levels on would've made a much bigger difference had the game launched with it, whether you consider the game finished or not. As someone who really couldn't afford to keep online going every month, I still remember the disappointment when I found out I couldn't even do the bare minimum of SHARING my levels unless I sold my soul to Nintendo. I was willing to accept not being able to play levels, but not being able to share? What was the point then?

I miss SMM1’s ability to see how levels you downloaded were constructed.

10:44 Dude, thanks a lot for featuring my rendition of the level from the Mario 3 Genesis bootleg. I really appreciate it! :'D It makes me overjoyed, to say the least but I'm more than glad that you enjoyed it that much.

The best aspect of Wonder is the expressive animation imo. The fact that they finally animated Mario entering a pipe instead of just sliding him up is huge

It really is a shame because mario maker 1 and 2 could have been something incredible but sadly they just lack so much content to make decent levels . So many requested themes never showed up either it just feels like a missed opportunity

Thank you so much for featuring my level! I really hope you enjoyed it. 7:14 Unfortunately, Mario Maker is a type of game that requires a lot of patience when building levels, and lately I haven't had the motivation to finish the super world.

Ngl Super Mario Maker 2 is a way better sequel than Super Mario Maker 1 but the thing 1 did better than 2 is keep me hooked idk how many years I played that game without getting bored the level editor was so fun, playing with the letters on the title screen was fun, the minigames, collecting amiibo costumes was fun (which is literally the only reason I bought amiibo was bc of the cool skins). But after like a year and a half of playing Super Mario Maker 2 I abandoned it which is the issue with the game like Super Mario Maker was so exciting bc nobody has ever seen anything like it. I played that game for over 3 years every day because I loved it and somehow the 3DS port kept me hooked longer than 2 did aswell ik people hate the 3DS port but I have a soft spot for it because it was the first version I ever played plus it was Mario Maker on the go I loved creating my own levels to play and I also loved the story mode and trying to get the medals me and my dad spent a lot of time together playing that game. I remember also playing the wii u version on road trips and vacations because it was so much fun. Super Mario Maker 2 I was so hyped for and couldn't wait to play it but after the first year it slowly started to fade away and I barely revisit it anymore. So yes SMM2 is the better game but SMM1 kept people hooked for a very long time. People still play it to this day which is pretty crazy. I am still sad to this day that my favorite wii u game of all time is completely dead, but all good things must come to an end.

Something that few people realize is the lack of Miiverse. Miiverse was amazing for a game like Super Mario Maker, a place where people could share the levels they made or comment on other levels. It made everything feel so much more social.

Amazing retrospective as always, I also have a suggestion: how about doing a live stream where you play our levels?

Honestly, many of the issues you mentioned were a factor, but I think Ceave Gaming had a good point when he talked about a lot of the technical level from Maker 1 not being possible in Maker 2. You simply can't create a good calculator in Maker 2 like you can make one in Maker 1, etc. These technical levels were part of the joy of watching people play Maker 1 and it's a shame they can't really be remade in Maker 2, when many of these former viewers can finally experience the levels themselves.

This is the game that needs the extended DLC treatment that Mario Kart 8 is getting.. Would help it so much.

I personally played the heck out of the first game, and when I got my Switch, my second game was Super Mario Maker 2. So it's important to my switch life. But for me, it was pretty obnoxious to make levels, I found it really boring and weird, unlike the first game, where it would be great (specially with the gamepad).

IMO, the biggest missteps with SMM2 were a) the lack of a website where you could bookmark and link to levels, and b) they removed the feature where you could look at other people's levels in the editor. The former made it so much more convenient to play levels you see in a video, while the latter was such a cool way to see how other levels worked. The latter is especially disappointing given that SMM2 is so much more contraption-oriented.

ngl, I thought there would be a fury segment. But I guess the lack thereof reflects your own feelings towards the game: disappointed, but not irritated. I'm guessing none of the flaws you pointed out during the video completely ruin their corresponding features, either, just hold them back in some capacity. An outstanding game that nonetheless still needed more dev love

28:25 Thank you so much for featuring my level in the video, I really hope you enjoyed it. :)

You nailed on every criticism of SMM2 on the long road. And let me say it, if Nintendo gave SMM 2 10~20% of the support they gave to Super Smash Bros Ultimate, the game would be infinitely better, because, what we got? Link, SMB 2 Power-up's, Super Worlds and Ninji Speedruns. And on a irony case, it's kinda the same philosophy Nintendo gave to their sports games on Switch, but in reverse. A game released complete, but with almost no post content.

I feel like SMM2 ended so soon because Nintendo EPD 10 (the 2D Mario and Modern Pikmin devs) wanted to focus their time on Mario Bros. Wonder and Pikmin 4, kinda like how EPD 5 probably ended ACNH early to focus on Splatoon 3.

An amazing informative retrospective. I hope Super Mario Maker 3 is an even better experience

Really happy to see my level (The House in the Level) made it into the video! Good Video Demeech!

I'm surprised you didn't mention how the stone block and toad escorts in story mode aren't available in the level editor, and how Fire Bros are exclusive to 3D World for some reason.

Another great video, as always. I wish I watched it much, much earlier. Nice to see a retrospective that isn’t exactly all for the pros or the cons. Of course, many thanks for bothering to feature my level at 2:43 , it means a lot. Hoping to see many more high quality retrospectives in the future.

Good point. I am not entirely sure why Nintendo would bring in the Snow and Forest themes, but not the Tower, Mountain, Beach and Volcano themes.

This game failed me on a simple basic level. I was an amiibo collector when it came out, however not owning a Wii U meant I never got to try out the amiibo costumes in Mario Maker. Them removing the costumes for no reason in the sequel was a big blow to my overall enjoyment.

I am so sad that SMM2 is in decline. I remember getting it on launch day, going as far as pre-ordering it and I loved it and still do. So it is a real shame to me.

Who remembers waiting for the checkpoint update in Mario Maker 1 for the Wii U?

I wish Nintendo weren't so out of touch with modern gaming. SMM2 should have had regular updates like Minecraft does over 10 years after release.

I prefer 2 by far, spent over 4k hours in the game. It has so much more, and I can get around to using it. 2 has much greater potential but it was hindered by 1 being novelty.

A creative community will be formed regardless of Nintendo's input. The main issue of SMM2 is locking the online sharing behind a paywall. Not everyone will be making new levels, they will play the offline portion and download user made levels. If they can't download anything because they don't have NSO, they lose interest. If anyone wanting to share levels with the world don't have NSO, they lose interest. Also, it is a Switch exclusive game. Despite being a popular console, these kinds of games are most played with mouse on PC.

I think one of the two big factors impacting how much attention Mario Maker 2 got is that the first one did good enough that people got their fill on the concept of custom mario stages, and experienced all the ups and downs that you'd get from that. All the features in SMM2 appealed more to people that were big fans of the game, but not enough to push it to new heights than what was seen in 1. Trying to point at all the features that were added and those that were cut, are aspects that matter more to people that were going to buy and play it heavily regardless of how the game turned out, while the majority of the casual audience "oh, I'd rather have a normal 2D Mario again, I'm good." Cause like, regardless of how many tools are added, and how many talented people you have contributing to the game, you're always going to deal with 4-9 stinkers before getting to a level that's executing it's idea well, and that's not assuming the idea it's going for is even one you enjoy. The second factor is that SMM2 came out on a good system. The Switch has more than a handful of games you could enjoy playing being released each year. I think SMM1 did about the most you could expect with the Wii U without getting into gimmicky territory, and with how few decent titles it got, you could always go back to that title because, well, infinite levels. As someone who got both games, I just don't really see myself returning to 2. I barely even hear my friends talk about it beyond the year it came out. I'll also say the lack of fun custom sprite swaps to unlock over time made it less fun to replay. It's a small, dumb goal, but it's at least something to look forward to after the fiftieth Hold Right To Win stage

Each player getting their own screen in a 2D co-op game is a godsend that Sonic Advance 3 and Super Mario Maker 2 features It’s a shame you don’t see that often in other titles

I don't know how to describe Mario Maker 1 versus 2 other than that 2 just feels like a regular game whereas 1 is very weird and it's that lack of weirdness that makes me not like Maker 2 as much. The random mushroom being gone make sense because they would have to somehow acquire all the licenses for all the weird suits again but other than that All the weird things that are missing don't need to be missing. Also some people say the original wiremaker had a better level editor and in some ways yes in some ways no but there should be a more touchscreen optimized interface that you can select when using it in handheld mode.

31:21 thanks for featuring my level, feels cool to see it in an actual video! Nice retrospective.

I have a theory as to why the multiplayer sucks so badly: It’s not Nintendo’s servers, it’s the players’ connections. You see, the game is only as fast as the player with the worst connection, to accommodate that player’s bad connection. The switch is also a portable console, and so it often is brought into places with little to no WiFi. This leads to the bad connection, and the suffering of EVERYONE rather than the guy wth the bad internet. You can actually confirm this by watching the guy with the bad connection leave, and suddenly right afterwards the game speeds right back up to normal.

Thanks for featuring my course in the video! (10:14)

28:48 Thanks for featuring my level Demeech!

This is one of my shorter reviews mostly cause I rather to keep stuff short, yes I do think super mario maker 2 is overall an improvment over super mario maker 1 in most cases, a new style, more enemies and stuff to mess around with, bosses, and power ups even though I wish amiibo mushrooms would show up, the story mode is solid and I say is an intresting one to say the least my main issue with SMM2 is how laggy the online co op like I so some in YT a lot back then, but for more stuff is overall feel like missed potential the game had a lot of stuff around and while it can be the worst mario game in the worng hands it can be the best but it seems like nintendo stop support the game I feel is mostly due to 2020 being 2020 but also for maybe a poor corporate decision the game get the rank of mid A tier still worthwhile to play but still kinda wish it would get more updates or a sequel would have come to give what have could be in 2 but is more than likley be on the next console more than anything *sigh* But to end on a high note I say you defenitley show ambition and care to your retrospect gator boi keep it up I am sure look for what be next

It's here

There's just something about ur voice that is so iconic and I love it every time I watch a demeech video, really separates from the rest

You can play levels online in local multiplayer, just not in endless challenge or vs mode. I used to do it a lot because my friends didn't wanna play mario kart or mario party (for some reason)

One of the things I've heard is that SMM2 did not meet Nintendo's sales expectations. Despite the Switch doing super hot, not a lot of people seemed to attach themselves to SMM2 the way they did SMM1. It could be for the reasons you stated in the video, some things 1 had that 2 got rid of or did worse. Could be the lack of a bookmarking site that made loading up levels you found on the internet a simple task. Somehow I think Nintendo got the idea that adding new content and updates were predicated on the game doing well sales-wise, within Nintendo's predictions. Really, those updates are probably what could've drove the numbers Ninty was chasing. But then again, I'm just bitter about the lack of a Hammer Suit in SMB3. And Tanooki Suit. And P-Wings, for that matter. God dammit, there was just so many more things SMM2 could've had and Nintendo killed that dream early.

you really need to share the level codes for the ones you played in video, they look actually very good

I remember crying in the original Mario Maker 1 Nintendo deleted my level for not being popular enough

Super mario maker wii u main theme of amiibo costumes is the main reason why I purchased it. I loved making run through levels with and especially splatoon theme levels. The sequal removed that and sure improved the title in many different ways but the main reason on why I loved mario maker was the costume level themes and I am more a level builder then level player, the costumes is a heavy motivated narrative for me to make levels. The online co op / online play with other players was awful at launch and it was a slide show whenever I played with viewers and after two streams I was done with the title. The story mode is fun but heavily bland / boring in my opinion and I did not want to continue it, as I stopped playing it around fifty or sixty percent completed castle ranking. It was not enjoyable for me. Wii U Mario Maker is heavily superior in my opinion.

It still annoys me that this game sold less than NSMBU Deluxe

Definitely one of my most anticipated Demeech videos

it just sucks cause of the fact they stopped updating for no reason at all, i just hope mario maker 3 becomes better (if it ever comes out) and maybe JUST maybe, we get an actual smb2 style. I mean cmon Nintendo i love you guys but SMB2 not having a lot stuff traditional mario games had isn't an excuse for not having an smb2 style, just make new assets damn it. Also the online levels need some kind of moderation they all suck and are toooo difficult and unfun

Bro you ain't happy with anything bro.

I bought MM1 day one and loved it-played it until 2019. I bought MM2 and I just couldn’t get used to the level designer UI-it felt so clunky to use, difficult to keep track of where everything was, and much less intuitive than the original’s menus. Even if it was designed for a controller, I think they did a very poor job at it, which is mostly why I stopped playing after only a couple months. I do still very much enjoy watching folks play the game though, but I just don’t enjoy playing it myself anymore, making my own levels or playing others’.

22:14 You did the classic!? Mario 3 around the world!? That's amazing of you Demeech ❤

Here what I would have changed/added. I would make SMB2 a full game style, though I'm still glad we got the powerup at least. I want a Samus Suit power up, and for it, Link, and SMB2 you should be able to start the level with them and not lose them when hit. Same screen multiplayer is difficult to survive in since players bump eachother out of the way instead of overlaping. I would allow player overlap especially if players share a screen. With world maker mode the levels needed multiple goal posts so the world map would unlock the route you took, and leave the other locked. For nonlinear routes you need more than 5 levels per world allowed. Without this world maker does not really affect gameplay in any meaningful way. I agree on name searching levels, but also wish there were better level tags such as: multiroute/non-linear, linear, SMB2, Cape Mario, coin collect mission, optional red coins, key level, kaiso, ect. Finally allowing as many checkpoints as you want in a level. There's some other things, but these seem like they should have been there.

One reason it went wrong is because of having to pay for an online membership compared to the original you didn't have to.

Mario Maker 2 is definitely massive a step up from the original especially in terms of the level-building aspect, but its missed potential just can't be ignored. Also, you caught me offguard at 23:33.

Honestly the only reason I stopped playing was because I didn't feel like it was worth paying for nintendo switch online and I really wished there were additional game styles. New Super mario bros Ds or Mario Land 2 would've been my picks.

At 16:32 thank you for playing my level and great video 😁

You can actually play online levels in co-op now, they fixed it in an update a couple years ago.

What is you guys best music for each theme SMB -Desert-Day and night -Underground-Day -Ghost house-Night -Airship-Day -Castle-Day SMB3 Sky-Day and night Ghost house-Day SMW Ground-Day and Night Ghost house-Night Snow-Day and night Castle-Day SMBU Ground-Day and Night Underground-Day Sky-Day and Night Ghost house-Day Desert-Day Airship-Day Snow-Day Castle-Day

Fun fact, before the Link powerup was introduced I predicted that it was gonna be a Zelda game style - fans were wanting a Zelda maker, so that could've been Nintendo's way of "kinda" giving it to us - and I felt so cool for predicting Zelda content being added to the game, albeit it's not exactly what I thought they'd do with it.

Dear demeech, are you gonna do a trash or treasure on sonic origins plus? Please do

I still play it, It is my most played switch game, and I enjoy it a lot. Online multiplayer has gotten better and it loads up lobbies fast with active players

I really hated how you had to have switch online too

I love this game, I haven't played any other game on my switch besides this for a solid few months now, and I still haven't gotten tired of it! I love Platforming, Kaizo, and Troll levels (If they aren't to challenging) But with those levels being so high in numbers (Along with Satisfying levels and music levels) there aren't as many regular classic levels for people to play, and that's how I think people started to not play it as much.

The game itself is good, but the mandatory online subscription to even play the main part of a game that already costs 60 bucks just killed it from the get-go, at least for me.

I agree with most of your points However i disagree with your apparent need for a music creator. Because at that point it strays away from being mario. When you remove the identity of the game it just becomes another game builder garage. And we all know how well THAT did

Ya know it's funny warioware diy did all the things i wish mario maker had done which was give full creativity to the player and a music maker

The angry sun on the new sup style is also funny because it looks like it's the type of angry that's so angry that it has had enough and doesn't have the time to make an angry face, it's just done with life and wants to focus on destroying the life it has supported for millions of years.

Only Nintendo could somehow make people lose interest in one of the best games on Switch.

I think that it’s because Mario was the first game that you could make levels on, so there was more hype

Sad how Nintendo just kinda abandoned this game and stop updating it.

Whats worse is mario party superstars did incredibly well and fans loved it. Yet it didn't get ANY updates or post launch content at all.. thats a worse thing than what happend to maker 2. Nintendos backwards thinking and nonsense decisions p*ss me off..🙄

Super Mario Maker 2's final update added so much I wanted, especially Super Worlds and the Koopalings. But the game definitely has some missed potential like the lack of diagonal pipes and placeable water/lava/poison tiles. I also think that despite being more fun to play than the original due to so many new features, the first Super Mario Maker was more fun to make it due to how intuitive it felt to use the Wii U Gamepad.

What killed it for me is how the online was handled. You want to make me pay to upload and play levels online? That's stupid but go ahead. However, give me a stable multiplayer because it was something else man...

Did you end up beating my level ludwig's sky castle demeech? I'm curious cause it's pretty difficult for me

When they make Super Mario Maker 3, its going to be revolutionary, just like SMM1 and SMM2 were. Its just a matter of when. I'd love to see it release with the next console. who knows? maybe it will even be like Super Mario Maker 3D or something super crazy. we haven't had a mario 3d game since...2017? unless you count bowsers fury.

Agreed. They just kind of stopped giving updates to this game for no real reason. Maybe it was because they were working on another Mario game at the time and so no more updates for this one but why not make an entire whole team to do that I don’t know maybe initial cells weren’t really well for this game. I don’t know it’s such a weird game that everybody said yeah this game probably would’ve been a lot more better if I got a lot more updates but it didn’t.

I agree with you about the New Angry Sun, it's cool

Hey Demeech can you please review super mario world romhacks next time

never thought id ever see an eurovision reference in a mario maker video but here we are

There were a ton of weird decisions for this game and it felt very rushed.

2:58 Yes! My level is featured in a Demeech video! Thank you!

It’s really a shame how Nintendo just left this game out to dry. Like couldn’t even fix the online either. The game is still amazing of course, but it could have been even more.

Mario Maker 2 was a great idea but spread a bit too thin. I would love just a Super Mario World Maker, or a Super Mario Bros NES Maker with every sprite from those games available to use. You can't even recreate the first levels in Super Mario World correctly because most of the enemies and features of those games are missing.

24:04 Also you can play online levels but even so, local multiplayer sucks due to the lack of bubble button and the lack of zoom out screen so if some player is less skillful than others can kill himself and the others due to what I have explained before

The shouldve just never stopped with the updates if they wanted to what they did with updates once every 6 months would have sufficed. The other styles section had so much potential, what could have been like smb 2 style, land style, but no😢. Im guessing after that final up they started working on wonder

It would be cool if the next Mario Maker Game was in like an open world environment instead of being a sidescrolling platformer all the time. Being able to create your own levels but in Open World Form.

I am disappointed that you didn't display my level here, even though I put it in the comment of your previous video.

I still play SMM2 to this day… blown out of proportion

Same thing happened with Animal Crossing - they did some updates for a while, which accumulated into the Happy Home Designer DLC - and updates abruptly stopped, save for some minor bug fixes. I'm not sure I get it, these games could have pretty long legs, and people have shown they're even willing to pay for major content updates. Nintendo really seems to like to put the brakes on things before they reach their full potential. Then of course literal years after they stopped updating Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, they release a bunch of bonus tracks. I don't understand this company sometimes.