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INDIRECT injection Versus DIRECT Injection

  Рет қаралды 37,397

Piggy Power

Piggy Power

Күн бұрын

In this Episode of PIGGYPOWER we discuss the basic differences between DIRECT fuel injection and INDIRECT fuel injection systems.... The fuel being Diesel, of course.
Much is generalised, many facts may now be different or superceded... I apologise if I've missed some things out... only so much I can try and squeeze into a short video about a rather complex subject!
Please feel free to make suggestions for future videos, comment on your thoughts on which of these systems is better!
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Thank you for watching...please share and like, comment too, I will read all and try to reply to as many as possible!
Social media stuff:
/ piggypowerofficial
/ piggy.power

Пікірлер: 107
@ray6442
@ray6442 3 жыл бұрын
Your channel is a gold mine, you explain things clearly and with detail. Thumps up!
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
That's very kind. Thankyou
@WoutMusic
@WoutMusic 3 ай бұрын
The cool thing is you have mechanical direct injection as well. In my opinion its the best of two worlds. Easy to fix, hard to kill, efficient and powerful engines.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 ай бұрын
Yes, for sure. Didn't have the time really to go into that, but it had it's advantages... However the rotary pumps were still what would hold them back a bit. Emissions laws essentially made manufacturers move on sooner than probably they wanted to
@davidsmyth9067
@davidsmyth9067 5 жыл бұрын
Indirect is great to start off I honestly have my heart with idi but direct is as u say more tunable but yes recently got a computer tbh it opens the field of easy diagnostics on a car, definitely is the future but long live the idi
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 5 жыл бұрын
Well said.
@velascomike5800
@velascomike5800 Жыл бұрын
modern injectors rely on batteries but the old system relies on their mechanical it's self so if your alternator fails the old system still running or EMP blast. but the modern design will fail because need the support of the battery and alternator, especially the ECU. but this channel thumb up a good and nice explanation.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower Жыл бұрын
While that's true... It is what it is... To improve diesels, power, sound, drivability, emissions, things had to change... At least it's super super rare to have a battery instantly fail these days
@GeorgeJV327
@GeorgeJV327 2 жыл бұрын
Bang pop Wollop bing bang is the correct expression for Diesel engine.Good job.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
😂👌🐷
@moudhathelegend6776
@moudhathelegend6776 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks last time I fail to differentiate​ btn this to injections in examination room, I don't regret cse those who fail become a star
@Matt-ne6de
@Matt-ne6de 4 жыл бұрын
Back in the mechanical injection days Mercedes used to do direct injection on commercial engines such as the old sprinter and indirect injection on the same version of car engines because the direct injection with its super high pressure made very loud scary diesel sounds at idle. Now with electronic injection the injectors open something like 7 times per combustion stroke whilst idling, so that diesely injector sound is almost gone, making direct injection good for cars.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
Well said
@jsh111
@jsh111 2 ай бұрын
I like the diesely injection sound
@limabravo6065
@limabravo6065 2 жыл бұрын
During my forced vacation last year I decided to pull an old dead Diesel engine apart because I understand and work with gasoline/ spark ignition engines, but diesels are a bit of a mystery. I understood the basics of compression ignition, I spend a lot of time trying to prevent it in the engines I’ve built, but the injection systems, fuel timing events, lack of a throttle body just baffled me. And after taking that engine apart and seeing what made it work led me to the conclusion that diesels are built with the use of black magic and unicorn tears
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂 high compression. Fuel at high pressure. Bang. There ya go.
@archygrey9093
@archygrey9093 2 жыл бұрын
To make things more confusing diesels will run cooler when lean and run hot when rich.
@impactodelsurenterprise2440
@impactodelsurenterprise2440 9 ай бұрын
Diesels also have ccv valve instead of pcv valve.
@limabravo6065
@limabravo6065 9 ай бұрын
@@impactodelsurenterprise2440 WITCHCRRRRAAAFFFTTT!!!
@miguel2946
@miguel2946 3 жыл бұрын
Great video man ! Thanks for the explanation
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
No worries 👍 Please consider subscribing 🐷💪
@daniellemeeks3862
@daniellemeeks3862 2 жыл бұрын
Can you talk about indirect injection springs and how they work?
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
The compress. Then rebound. 😂👍
@daniellemeeks3862
@daniellemeeks3862 2 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower 😆 not
@joewtjjoewp1
@joewtjjoewp1 3 жыл бұрын
at 0:16 , because of the background music, all that i was thinking about was Dr. Phil saying 'narcissistic bitch' xD
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
So random 😅
@ESLinsider
@ESLinsider 3 жыл бұрын
I am looking at getting a diesel step van and converting it to veg oil. One option is a 2003 6.5L workhorse p42 and another is a 2002 24 valve cummins Freightliner M-line. So which would be better for veg oil? I saw you just say here around 6:30 that the indirect injection can run on anything so I'd guess the 6.5 since it's IDI.
@AwesomeMau5Heads
@AwesomeMau5Heads 2 жыл бұрын
Idi is the best for alternative fuels
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
IDI is best but you do need to research if all the pump seals etc are suitable for vegetables oils
@bedebill
@bedebill 4 жыл бұрын
Good vid , apart from the slurpin , haven't you heard of Misophonia ?
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
Hehe 🙉
@Moto1cc
@Moto1cc Жыл бұрын
The old one looks very similar to my land rover one? Anyone know if it's the same part 🤔
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower Жыл бұрын
Yeah very similar units. Different camplates and couple other bits but same design/basic premise 👌🐷
@EgoShredder
@EgoShredder 5 жыл бұрын
Talking of fuel pumps, my 306 has been stuck in my drive since June. One day it turned over but the damp morning stopped it starting. After a few hours of strong sun it did start easily twice, but INSTANTLY cut out each time. So I am guessing a fuel starvation issue. What's the best place to start on a 306 2.0 XSi........fuel pump or something else......fuel pump relay?...........injectors? My battery is brand new and spark plugs seem ok. Just need a few ideas before I try get a garage involved, although getting car over to a garage could prove tricky.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 5 жыл бұрын
Check it has a fresh strong supply of fuel. Check it has a strong spark. 👍
@EgoShredder
@EgoShredder 5 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower Thanks. Yeah the fuel is a few months old (a quarter tank left). Is it ok to just fill up with new fuel and mix with the remaining old fuel? I have a spare brand new set of plugs I can put in.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 5 жыл бұрын
That fuel doesn't sound old tbh. If you keep your foot on the throttle will it keep going? Does the fuel pump prime and run? Does it start immediately?
@EgoShredder
@EgoShredder 5 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower Starts immediately twice and cuts out immediately too, even with foot on throttle. It will not start again after two attempts. Come back another day and you get two attempts etc. Not sure if pump is priming. I've had to run the car less during last 12mths, so might be a mixture of old fuel each time I fill up I guess.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 5 жыл бұрын
Check fuel pump primes and runs. Very odd that it does it twice, every time
@arindamsamanta7966
@arindamsamanta7966 3 жыл бұрын
Nice explains..love from India..
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
No worries 👌
@hipstarchild
@hipstarchild 5 жыл бұрын
Great video. Very interesting. Thanks !
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! 😁👍🐷💪
@sajjadvella3970
@sajjadvella3970 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir ,very Good explanation. But I wonder if you talked slower . I'm from Iran Good luck.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder too.
@1873Winchester
@1873Winchester 2 жыл бұрын
I feel that the IDI principle has potential yet. It's so simple and robust... I read about Ducted Fuel Injection which has the potential to drastically improve diesel emissions to almost nothing. From what I saw in the papers I read it seems to be for a modern common rail style diesel, but the principle was so simple. Like adding a bunsen burner nozzle on the injector to create better mixing or fuel and air. I wonder why could not that also be applied to the injector in an IDI engine, improved mixing would be just as helpful on an IDID, possibly more so?
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
Issue with IDI mostly is limited pressures and where the heat spikes, which is in the head. And actually there are some emissions which direct injection is terrible for but Idi had no issues due to its design. Used veg oil and Idi though ... Super clean and effective way to be environmental!
@MaineOutdoorsChannel
@MaineOutdoorsChannel 3 жыл бұрын
So as far as tractor engines IDI - Kukje A2300N2 or CRDI - Yanmar 4TNV88CR in the 48 hp range... that is what I am trying to decide on... Comments appreciated
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with these engines to offer assistance
@ESLinsider
@ESLinsider 3 жыл бұрын
I've read IDI is better for veg oil. Any idea why? But also read people still using veg oil with DI.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
Hi there. Worth researching about running veg oil. There are directories about which vehicles are good for it deep on the interwebs. IDI in general is ok for veg oil, if it's a Bosch pump, as the system can cope with the fuel. Modern Di systems required the lubricants in the diesel to keep the pumps and injectors from seizing. I've heard of some running 50/50 mix with more modern engines without issues...but it's a risk.
@ESLinsider
@ESLinsider 3 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower Bosch pump is electrical or mechanical? Been reading so many different things. ANother guy was saying mechanical pumps are more forgiving for alternative fuels.
@heinzletzte.6385
@heinzletzte.6385 5 жыл бұрын
idi = cracked cylinder head di= cracked pistons
@MotoRobee
@MotoRobee 4 жыл бұрын
Just buy some forged ones, and increase the boost and let it smoke :D
@iqinsanity
@iqinsanity 4 жыл бұрын
Forged pistons actually suck, they have to be installed with more clearance so they wear the engine faster. Forged is for racing not daily driving.
@grapsorz
@grapsorz 4 жыл бұрын
hmm your explaining a commonrail vs distributor pump.. my engine is direct injected with a distributor pump. the engines with a distributor pump can be DI or IDI engines it have to do with the combustion chamber and not the pump design.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
Hi there... Yes you are right, there was a sort of "overlap" period where manufacturers did some direct injection engines with mechanical injection. Not many though in Europe. Famous engines like the 6bt Cummins had this direct injection mechanical system of course. . . I find there is always exceptions to rules but it makes a video 7hours long if you cover them all 😂
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
(I should point out, a MAJOR bulk of my views/subscribers come from Peugeot/Citroen owners, so I tailer most my videos for them. In the case of PSA, mechanical is idi and common rail is Di 👌)
@grapsorz
@grapsorz 4 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower well for about 10 years just about every diesel on the market was this way. mercades, VAG, opel (Izuzu) (volvo used the VW unit's) they r all this setup.. not befor 2000 you got the new generation all over. i know Ford stil used the old IDI engine's all the way up tho. for french stuff i have noe idea.
@iqinsanity
@iqinsanity 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, all I kept thinking was “p7100”. From a German company at that.
@iqinsanity
@iqinsanity 4 жыл бұрын
Still a good video though
@LikaPyramid
@LikaPyramid Жыл бұрын
Does a direct gasoline injection system have the same negative effects on the intake valves as a direct diesel injection system? or are diesel systems working differently?
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower Жыл бұрын
What negative effect are you referring to?
@LikaPyramid
@LikaPyramid Жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower the clogging of carbon build up
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower Жыл бұрын
@@LikaPyramid I've yet to see any clogging of carbon build up on diesel valves to be any different to direct or indirect injection... Both injection systems run after the valve.
@LikaPyramid
@LikaPyramid Жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower then why do they call it direct injection? xD
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower Жыл бұрын
@@LikaPyramid ... I explained this in the video? 😂 One is direct and the other indirect, into a precombustion chamber... Can't have precombustion before the valve!
@tonyblackburn5002
@tonyblackburn5002 2 жыл бұрын
If cost of ownership is a factor di is not for you. If you're selling/trading your car in at less than 100k definitely get a di engine. Otherwise port injection is far more reliable.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
This is a good point, but can vary. iDi pumps and parts are getting very very rare now. A Bosch VE pump for a 1.9td Peugeot in good condition can fetch as much as a HP Di fuel pump which has been reconditioned. If you're willing to buy second hand, Di pumps and a injectors are everywhere and pretty cheap for cars over 5/6yrs old. So it does depend. If you're going to the dealership for a repair on the injection system at 10yrs old, then naturally the bill is going to be expensive v the value of the vehicle. . . However that would likely be the case if it was a clutch or brakes or suspension components
@tonyblackburn5002
@tonyblackburn5002 2 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower I haven't experienced any injection failures, what I have seen is the massive carbon build up on the valves because of the lack of fuel hitting them, not saying injectors WONT fail, just not something I've come across YET. Most of my gdi experience is from the Ford ecoboost.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
@@tonyblackburn5002 ahh but you're talking petrol injection... Quite different to diesel injection.
@tonyblackburn5002
@tonyblackburn5002 2 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower yes. My knowledge diesel engines is somewhat limited as of yet, but I work on a BUNCH of gasoline engines. Both di and port injected, the di cars will typically get better mpg, and make more power, but maintenance cost a bit more.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
Di petrol isn't like Di diesel. Di diesel has injector pressures waaaay above petrol. Port injection petrol is very very different to indirect injection diesel.
@ESLinsider
@ESLinsider 3 жыл бұрын
Direct injection requires a better filtering sysytem?
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
Yes usually
@Dosedmonkey
@Dosedmonkey 5 жыл бұрын
You can get combination of indirect and direct injection with modern engines on common rail, this video is a bit misleading, getting different types of fuel pumps muddled up with different types of injection.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 5 жыл бұрын
I've never ever seen any diesel engines using both direct and indirect injection... Could you link to a reference on this? I also don't know what you mean about getting the fuel pumps muddled up with the types of injection, at which point in the video did I do this so I can check and make corrections? Engineering Explained has been a channel I subscribed to many many moons ago, far superior knowledge and technical know how than myself 👌
@Dosedmonkey
@Dosedmonkey 4 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower - The first one is an engine produced by Toyota, the 2GR-FSE, that was launched in 2005. - More recently, Audi has adopted this technology on its 1.8L and 2.0L TSI gasoline engines. The bi-injection allows to use the best system at each operating condition : - At high speed, high load, the direct injection and its related cooling effect delays the knock event. - At low speed, the PFI gives more time to make the mixture homogeneous, and so reduces unburnt hydrocarbons, carbone monoxide and soot particles while increasing the efficiency.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
@@Dosedmonkey but you are talking about petrol engines... Not diesel. This video is in reference to diesel fuel injection systems. . . So what diesel engines have both direct and indirect injection? I still can't find an example. Also still confused about you talking about getting my pumps mixed up, I can't see where in the video I did this, please correct me/point me in the direction 👌
@moudhathelegend6776
@moudhathelegend6776 4 жыл бұрын
My teacher told me one btn of two has no glow plug I wonder Which one
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
Both make use of Glowplugs. Both make use them of at different times... Idi is more reliant on them for cold starting... But they both have and use glow plugs 👍 Please subscribe and tell your classmates! 🐷💪
@jackbennett8371
@jackbennett8371 Жыл бұрын
Listening to you drink that coffee sounded disgusting
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower Жыл бұрын
I didn't drink any coffee. Ergo, it wasn't disgusting 😂😜🐷
@lezbriddon
@lezbriddon 4 жыл бұрын
is the modern system better, yes, but its also way cheaper for manufacture, and here's why, old xud injectors were calibrated, shims under the injector spring set the amount of fuel sprayed out, so each and every injector had to be calibrated under real conditions? very time-consuming. also, the pistons of the pump had to match on pressure so that each cylinder had the same fuelling, once again, calibration time. now the modern system doesn't have this, with one pump supplying fuel, not 4 smaller single piston pumps, it's way easy to calibrate if at all, it just needs to be 'in the ballpark', as for the injectors, no need to do any 'real' calibration on those either, just measure the flow, and stamp that on the injector, then when fitted in the vehicle, tell the ecu that injectors flow rate, and let the ecu do the math to change its injection time to to match, say if injector A has +10% more flow, then reduce its injection time by 10%, bingo. this saves a huge amount on manufacturing costs, which they don't pass on to us but pocket, and then they get double bubble as now a replacement injector needs its flow rate programmed in the ecu which they can charge for!
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 4 жыл бұрын
Very right in many respects... But the parts are much more costly to manufacture. Tolerances are WAY higher due to significantly increased pressures in the system.
@lezbriddon
@lezbriddon 4 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower emmm , tolerances are not that much of a cost issue, the precision is way higher, but with robotic cnc machining this stuff is like 1/100th of a mm accurate at a thousand units an hour. citroen was making steel on steel hydraulic valves with virtually no leak-by from the 70's with standard 'precision' machining, the pumps these things use are 'common' rough and ready piston pumps despite what they charge us for them. still sooner have an xud than my hdi dw12
@amitdesai2421
@amitdesai2421 3 жыл бұрын
So it's a IDI Vs CRDI...!
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
Crdi is one type. But it's just a manufacturers abbreviations for the same thing.
@amitdesai2421
@amitdesai2421 3 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower Yes, But there are non common rail Di engines too with a rotary and inline type mechanical FI pumps, I think the only difference between IDI and non common rail Di is combustion chamber. And because of the Direct Injection and without pre combustion chamber Di engine produces more torque and are little noisier as compared to IDI.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
@@amitdesai2421 yes, as others have commented too... Can't cover it all in one video... Plus they were sort of on the switch over. ... Short period of time. Torque isn't really related tbf. More potential... But can make just as much torque with idi ... Di is also a lot quieter due to preinjection (not possible with rotary/non common rail)
@amitdesai2421
@amitdesai2421 3 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower What is tbf ? And for a pre injection you are referring to Electric injection Di...!
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 3 жыл бұрын
To be fair. Yes, electronically controlled Di, which is what the video is about.
@mandalorqel-droma5876
@mandalorqel-droma5876 2 жыл бұрын
This video is worthless, you've just compared two types of direct injection (even though you are using indirect injectors), one based on distribution pump (as in 90s TDI engines) and second base on continous pump (aka common rail).
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
So I am using indirect injectors... As you've stated.. So it IS indirect injection that in this video I am comparing with direct. A 'middle ground' of development was when they used the same old indirect technology and began going direct injection... Which was soon followered by electronically controlled direct injection with a common rail/HP pump.
@mandalorqel-droma5876
@mandalorqel-droma5876 2 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower yeah, 95% of the video is about distribution pump vs common rail. 5% is about indirect vs direct injection. You just mislead your audience.
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
Ok, well if you'd like to spend the time and energy producing a video, please do 👍 I do this without being paid or for any reward. My followers are all Peugeot/Citroen fans and thus this video has been a huge help to them all. It's a shame for comments like yours for content creators.
@mandalorqel-droma5876
@mandalorqel-droma5876 2 жыл бұрын
@@PiggyPower just because you spent time and energy making video doesn't make it any good. DI with distribution pump was used for almost 2 decades and you haven't even mentioned it. Do you rly don't realize that after seeing your video ppl will mistake milions of cars from 80s, 90s and some from early 00s thinking they have indirect injection?
@PiggyPower
@PiggyPower 2 жыл бұрын
@@mandalorqel-droma5876 because that doesn’t relate to my subscribers. My content did. If every video everyone ever made on KZfaq covered every detail to relate to everyone on the planet …each video would last for hours and hours
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