IDARM 2018 - Intro & Stage 1 - Spring Loaded Kayak?

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IDARM 2018 - Intro & Stage 1 - Spring Loaded Kayak?

Рет қаралды 38,665

6 жыл бұрын

The Arizona Independence Day Rifle Match is a long standing tradition in the state, and what better a way to celebrate Independence Day than with a shooting competition?
This year Ian and Karl bring out some odd rifles - a left handed G3 and a highly modified Vz2008 (Vz58) as an experiment in what if?
Stage 1: Engage mini targets at range offhand, run up the hill and then re-engage the targets from a wildly moving spring loaded kayak. WTF?
InRange is entirely viewer supported:
/ inrangetv

Пікірлер: 165

@yuriyromaniw6629 6 жыл бұрын

For the next stage, you'll be sitting inside a spinning washing machine. Hit all 68 targets.

@bend1483 6 жыл бұрын

LoL XD

@SinistralRifleman 6 жыл бұрын

Lol...I got 0/10. This was my 4th stage and after waiting 1.5 hours to shoot this and watching most people time out with 3-4 hits I just stopped caring. Every time I started to get stable I got kicked and slid back again. I tried to get into a better position several times with the same result. I just did a mag dump into the canyon and called it quits. This stage fails the objectivity test because of the random RO kicking. The boat prop by itself would have been an objective challenge. One shooter got all 10 targets. He fired 4 magazines of 5.56.

@orionevans10 6 жыл бұрын

SinistralRifleman I know I had said something on one of your videos too, but wanted to post here too. This was my 5th stage of the day, so it was after a long day of heat and shooting. In the moment, I thought it was kinda dumb, but after Glen pointed out it could simulate a moving car/SUV/boat, it then became a fun simulation. With me being fat and not so flexible, I barely was able to stay in the boat and they probably moved the boat less for me, but I got 2 or 3 hits from the kayak. It's not the same for everyone, but neither is life or every shooting position because of size, left or right handed shooter, etc. Maybe I'm biased because I'm always at the back of the pack anyways, so I try keep it as realistic as possible and not worry about winning. Plus I think the biggest thing with this match is that EVERY person got something from the prize table, which most of the things almost pay for the match, plus we got lunch. So I understand everyone's disapproval with it for score wise, but when we remember sometimes it's for fun, than it did what it was supposed to (I think).

@wingracer1614 6 жыл бұрын

I love the concept. I think it would work a lot better with a bit larger or closer targets and a consistent method of creating the motion like an electric motor or something.

@CAPFlyer 6 жыл бұрын

I don't think you need to create motion. Most rifles will create enough impulse to get the boat bouncing on its own and create sufficient challenge at it is. There was no need to "add" movement in this situation.

@Biggles19840 6 жыл бұрын

I’ve shot a similar stage here in Australia, we had to shoot targets from a “horse” made from an oil drum, a tractor seat and with massive springs in each corner on a frame. When you add recoil, target transition and the fact that here we have manual action everything, there is more than enough movement induced to the shooter. I used a Remington 7615 and while it didn’t recoil that much, the pump action made things interesting. Thank goodness I had a $150 AUD standard cap AR mag lol!

@wingracer1614 6 жыл бұрын

That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Would love to try something like that.

@Yutter89 6 жыл бұрын

Stage 1: Take 5 mags worth of ammo, throw it all in the trash.

@genericpersonx333 6 жыл бұрын

A more cynical man would assume that this was designed by an ammunition dealer; a more cynical man would suggest that an ammunition dealer bribed the stage designer to make it an ammunition sink

@Yutter89 6 жыл бұрын

Eustace Stritchers for how many rounds I watched my buds sling to the nether that day it might as well have been lol

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

@@Yutter89 that's a stage that selectn fire would have helped

@blackbird_actual 6 жыл бұрын

This was most WTF stage I have ever seen. Also, Ian's bipod in the kayak plan was hilarious.

@andrascsabahorvath9804 6 жыл бұрын

Sturm The Regulator I wanted to see it play out :)

@jediknight1294 2 жыл бұрын

It was horseshit the RO called for that to change utter horseshit.

@grumpychunk1 6 жыл бұрын

For this stage you will engage12 bowling ball sized 800 meter targets while in a wheel barrel rolling down a cobblestone hill

@mandrakevermilyea7488 6 жыл бұрын

Did the WWKD evolve into the WWVZD??? Will it become the Valmet??? Find out next time on Karl’s experiment hour

@LanceDStone 6 жыл бұрын

Karl: "Where else do you see a rifle like this?" Literary every rifle match in Czech or Slovakia. :D

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

nah real vz58s work

@RetroARguy 6 жыл бұрын

Definitely agree that the way the kayak was set up was a potential safety hazard, cringed a little when I saw where legs would be and where they had you shooting

@warphammer 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I cringe about my long legs and size 15s in that situation.

@SgtKOnyx 6 жыл бұрын

Uh, what?!? What is this stage? Super random RO movement, unsafe position in the kayak for those with long legs or short rifle, unclear stage instructions. Goofy stuff.

@LEXxTALIONS7913 6 жыл бұрын

Awesome choice Ian was a Portuguese special forces military i use the g3 many times and i still love that gun never let me down. I don't care what anyone says about the HK-G3 because is a awesome gun reliable and extreme accuracy. 👍🏻🇵🇹✌

@brandonalmeida5493 6 жыл бұрын

f/y/all ian is using portuguese mag pouches i gave him from guerra do ultramar. I also gave him a bunch of stuff from portugal that day. I was running fuzileiro gear and a paratrooper mag pouch belt. I didn't use my ptr91 that day but i do have one and have all the parts (including unissued military barrel) for a FMP g3. Viva o portugal!

@brandonalmeida5493 6 жыл бұрын

f/y/all hey while i thinking about it. Would you be interested in possibly corresponding with me? I am collecting portuguese firearms and gear and it would be awesome to hear from someone who served recently in the portuguese military. Eu falo e entendo português básico. meu email é almeidadedos@yahoo.com

@LEXxTALIONS7913 6 жыл бұрын

brandon almeida where you figth on (Guerra da Ultramar) in Africa? I notice that you have a Portuguese name "Almeida" where are you from? I live in Porto.

@pdittrich 6 жыл бұрын

Completely unrelated to the shooting part, your guys' audio recording techniques must be ridiculously advanced... I remember back in the day when you'd stop speaking when someone was shooting because the blast noise would just drown out everything, but nowadays, (especially at about 20:15) there's some dude magdumping in the background and it doesn't even faze the microphone. Love your stuff, will definitely get into 2gun matches (once I find some over here in W-GER) because of your content! :)

@GradyHouger 6 жыл бұрын

My guess is they are using the same audio gear, just picking spots to film further from other noise.

@sewing1243 6 жыл бұрын

Ian "tossed" his tripod in the "sh%$ river". How did he get it back? ;)

@TheHandgunhero 6 жыл бұрын

I would have flat out refused to shoot the stage and encouraged everybody else to not shoot it either. That firing position is not safe, and the kicking especially could easily have thrown your aim down and shot your foot off.

@sabertoothray 6 жыл бұрын

the kicking... wow what a terrible design!

@eclecticguy 6 жыл бұрын

I see 4 main problems with this stage. The first is if the boat is supposed to be on water you are not going to be shooting that far depressed without a lot more wave action. Second that is a rather narrow boat for a average adult with shooting gear and rifle to keep hands and feet inside of while firing and reloading. Third using a person and springs instead of a heavy duty machine to produce the rocking probably makes the stage inconsistent according to how heavy the person+gear vs maximum spring load is and how strong/tired the rocker person is through out the day. Finally I have to wonder how many test runs they did to determine the maximum time for the stage if so many of the competitors are incurring penalties or just plain timing out. It is a unique and interesting idea for a challenging stage but I think it would work better with a some what larger boat on a mechanical rocker at the bottom that you run down to after clearing targets from the hillside and do some random testing for determining a mean finish time.

@BurnDuration 6 жыл бұрын

Aaron Orr I think thats exactly what happened; the RO/stage designer did not pre shoot the stage themselves and realize: "yeah, this is ridiculously hard" to the point where it's irrelevant and unenjoyable, and make the changes to the stage to improve it.

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

my bet is they built the prop were ridiculously impressed with it and didn't think

@MarkiusFox 6 жыл бұрын

_notices unlisted playlist of two videos_

@everettchris1 6 жыл бұрын

The RO kicking the platform around not only made it inconsistent and nigh-impossible, it also made it dangerous. Recoil and the shooter just getting on the thing would have been plenty of movement to make it interesting and challenging without being this sort of mess. And this to add to the risk of shooting a foot off if you were on it wrong. This is a hard no from me.

@dposcuro 6 жыл бұрын

...I am excited for CZ content!

@Psiberzerker 6 жыл бұрын

When I think of an American Rifle, I think of an M-14, which isn't that far off of a Garand with a 20 round box magazine. (Some other differences there, but not many.) Then, the BAR, then the Garand. I know, it's backawrds, but I'm weird.

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

so you think terrible rifle shouldn't never have been adopted , ok but never really allowed to reach full potential then hamstrung by idiocy but solid

@Ihasanart 6 жыл бұрын

Way too much induced artificial challenge interfered making a hard and interesting stage, a downright imposssible stage thats not really a consistent presentation to every shooter.

@GrizzAxxemann 6 жыл бұрын

I've seen stages thrown out over less when protested.

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

@@GrizzAxxemann this is the issue with outlaw matches they dint have any objective ruleset

@somedaysoon3784 6 жыл бұрын

harpoons and spearguns when?

@OnimeNoPhil 6 жыл бұрын

"Oh fuck" Carl is my spirit animal. Ahahah

@smgguns2 6 жыл бұрын

Wow Karl you just made shooting out of a kayak look much easier than it could have possibly been! Amazing to make hits from that thing!

@centurionfox3827 6 жыл бұрын

Good luck to you all

@danthefrst 6 жыл бұрын

2:57 "in real world conditions #bipodsmatter" ooyeah!

@lucasvisser3864 6 жыл бұрын

loving the thonk patch on karl's left arm

@petesheppard1709 6 жыл бұрын

A water stage...In AZ. Keep firm grip on sense of humor... :p

@AdmiralGrafSpee100 4 жыл бұрын

I admire you americas have the ability to do this shooting sport.

@Psiberzerker 6 жыл бұрын

Any stage that takes that long to explain. Did you end up thinking about the rules the whole time? Sweeps, no double taps, and the like? That's too much to remember in a timed stage.

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

sweeping is a safety call that's always a thing, the nondoubkesnis standard, where it jumped the shark was 2 shots per and kicking

@DominusRexDK 6 жыл бұрын

was it just me, or was those stage instructions not kinda unclear.

@chitoryu12 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, she was having some trouble reading the paper and explaining what to do.

@SgtKOnyx 6 жыл бұрын

I didn't know there was someone kicking the kayak until I read Russell's comment. I hadn't seen their conclusions yet, mind

@everettchris1 6 жыл бұрын

I don't think they were that unclear (okay, the definition of 'sitting' could have been more clear). They did talk about her "manipulating" the kayak or something. But they tried to be cutesy about it.

@CaptainCiph3r 6 жыл бұрын

That was a disgusting display of stage engineering. Inconsistency, no accommodation for larger shooters with shorter rifles, and expecting an already difficult to near impossible task for new shooters to be done twice, that just looks pure throw out material. A cool idea, but poorly executed.

@GrizzAxxemann 6 жыл бұрын

Karl's Vz looks very similar to a typical Canadian Vz setup.

@HarrysHolsters 6 жыл бұрын

The kayak stage was evil!

@jayzenitram9621 6 жыл бұрын

That stage would have made me barf.

@mountainhobo 6 жыл бұрын

It seemed so theatrical, I kept looking for a pirate with a parrot on his arm.

@GriffonAriac 6 жыл бұрын

Loved seeing you run the WPA PSU, everybody gives me crap about it being imported by wolf since I run one.

@beverlychmelik5504 4 жыл бұрын

It shows the challenges of naval gunfire.

@spinyheghog 6 жыл бұрын

Did you have fun? It looked fun. I think the boat should have had a motor with eccentric pulley or just free float with more springy spring. If power is a problem just get two old speakers and use power of magnetic pushing against each other.

@M21Karl 6 жыл бұрын

It's been a lifetime ago since I was in an RB15 (Rubber Boat 15 man) but from what I remember a boat on water is more rhythmic than someone kicking a boat on springs. At least with a rhythm you can use that to your advantage as you said. I would also think a boat with an actual seat where you could put your legs down as in a normal sitting position (like a flat bottomed Jon Boat) would have been safer. Do you think iron sights would have helped?

@azuritet3 6 жыл бұрын

you will engage each target alternately with your guitar, and bow and arrow.

@44CoReY44 2 жыл бұрын

Didn't realise they had boat rides in the Arizona desert. The more you know

@simonr8721 6 жыл бұрын

I think in this stage it would've been useful to have a select-fire rifle in an intermediate caliber. You could fire a burst every time the dot got near the target. If the reloads were fast enough it probably would be doable to not time out. Still good shooting from both of you.

@eurobeatbandit 6 жыл бұрын

Karl, I think you should try adapting Magpul Zhukov Handguard onto your VZ. It's popular thing that canucks do, and handguard itself is very comfortable, I think you would find it a good solution.

@PavewayJDAM 6 жыл бұрын

Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right. Unless you’re going all the way.

@63grandsport11 4 жыл бұрын

Watching the boat sequence was torture.

@InrangeTv 4 жыл бұрын

Wasn't fun to shoot either.

@Qsaws_ 6 жыл бұрын

I love my VZ58 but the handguard gets hot pretty quickly.

@donjear2226 6 жыл бұрын

I get that the kicking/waves made it about impossible to complete. but for the sake of real-worldness I don't think it should be removed. maybe, have closer/larger targets and realize the grain of truth that not nobody never shoots anything but close targets well from a light boat. Water is often much more wavy than that.

@gnarshread 6 жыл бұрын

It was very fitting to see Ian taking the punt gun approach to boating while shooting unlike common peasants who would sit in a boat and shoot! Maybe actual punt guns will he in the future for in range?

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

pretty much banned in the US so hard to do

@drmaudio 6 жыл бұрын

It seems almost unreasonably hard, but as long as it is reasonably consistent shooter to shooter, I don't have a problem with it.

@SgtKOnyx 6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sense (drmaudio) lol nope

@daichidurand7429 6 жыл бұрын

Awesome looking VZ, also when can we expect Karl’s review on those CAT integrated knee-pad pants

@NotableAutumn6 6 жыл бұрын

I would’ve shot the first five targets and said give me my time plus 100 secs.

@SgtKOnyx 6 жыл бұрын

NotableAutumn6 Alas it would still be par time plus penalties. I would probably had said no, because I've got longer legs than rifle. I'm not feeling shooting myself in the foot.

@NotableAutumn6 6 жыл бұрын

SgtKOnyx At the match I shoot it’s your last shot time plus penalties.

@SgtKOnyx 6 жыл бұрын

NotableAutumn6 Maybe. I dunno personally.

@MrTryAnotherOne 4 жыл бұрын

That's a neat idea. Would be better on a shorter distance, though.

@DiggingForFacts 6 жыл бұрын

This is the stage-design equivalent of shitposting. In no way of serious use for competition, but more interesting than plain magdumps

@spldrong 6 жыл бұрын

VZ58!! I have the bolt release and extended mag release on mine... I don't consider it "gamer" at all. The original design should have had it. (I did grind my extended mag release down so it did not snag on my gear. Bolt release also can be used to lock the bolt open quickly.

@mortisCZ 6 жыл бұрын

Karl, what have You done to that poor vz? I like the idea but it's really different.

@Snakesht172 6 жыл бұрын

While the vz looks cool I would have loved to see Karl use his c308 from 2 years ago. Roller delay v Lefty Roller delay would be a sweet comparison.

@urishima 6 жыл бұрын

'A boat ride down shit creek'

@kenhelmers2603 6 жыл бұрын

LOL I like this one! I've shot from a canoe, 'not easy! The RO should've not been messing with it to make it more real.. "Yoink!" new trigger control term - LOL

@2Aknight762 6 жыл бұрын

That kayak is diabolical.

@GreenDayFanMT 6 жыл бұрын

Whenever I was on a boat I heard that song. 'I am no senators son, oh no!'

@Rannyboy120 6 жыл бұрын

Glad to see the clothes put To good use!

@ohioslacker 4 жыл бұрын

Darned right handed kayak. Ian didn't stand a chance.

@burnsboysaresoldiers 6 жыл бұрын

Finally seeing a vz58 in Karl’s hands! That is some crap tactic bubbafied vz58.

@RobertBeckk 6 жыл бұрын

Lol at the mag dump at st the 20:20 mark

@ondrejh571 6 жыл бұрын

I usually want Ian to win, but not now! Go 58!

@brandonalmeida5493 6 жыл бұрын

Everyone says i muzzled my foot, it looks like i did from any side view but i could see down sights that my foot was off to the left. I did tuck my foot in because it was rather stupid to stick out. I hit 0/10. Really really fun though

@benjamingomez7155 6 жыл бұрын

*Gets in boat* "Commence the jiggling"

@TheHengeProphet 6 жыл бұрын

She never did say you had to be sitting in the boat when doing the stage walkthrough...

@jediknight1294 2 жыл бұрын

The brief didn't say sitting it said IN THE BOAT. that's a really disappointing call from the RO there. The prop however is really cool, iv used something similar on a gun run mounted in a trailer being towed across a bay which was HARD but fair because speed was consistent. Good stage SHIT RO.

@3of11 6 жыл бұрын

Looks like Karl’s VZ58 has the infamous gremlin. The Century VZ58s really don’t do the platform justice. The bolt carrier not being tabbed causes random hammer follow.

@ggrandcz 6 жыл бұрын

3of11 It is called "Hermex effect" here in Czech Republic because early vz58 were modified to semiautomatic by company called Hermex. It is illness of most modifications to semiauto, because it needs to be done correctly but for companies the profit is key, not quality.

@3of11 6 жыл бұрын

ggrandcz in the USA only Czechpoint (CSA) has a “tabbed” bolt carrier that fixes the issue. Their rifles are much higher quality too

@dragonstormdipro1013 6 жыл бұрын

heyyy....where is that eagle?

@steeltalon2356 6 жыл бұрын

I haven't gotten to the end comments, however from the shooting segments it seemed like that stage probably looked good on paper, but turned in to a complete train wreck. Interested to see if my consensus matches your thoughts on it. I'm wondering why they needed to kick the boat at all.

@everettchris1 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, probably. But it seems nobody did a test run.

@Erikreaver 6 жыл бұрын

Hot damn, that looked brutal. Also that vz.58 looks horrible, though I'm still rooting for it, out of patriotic reasons. I agree that switching the hits required would make it probably more fun and easier to accomplish stage.

@java9090 6 жыл бұрын

Ask any marine if they like the rmr and they will tell you that they've never used it because they always become unusable after the first field op due to scratches on the lenses and sun fogging of the fiber optic light gather strip. Imo it a "p.o.s".

@EvanDickersonM81 6 жыл бұрын

From everything I've seen or heard they just sort of ignore the top optic and use the Chevron from the acog with both eyes open as a sort of red dot.

@java9090 6 жыл бұрын

@@EvanDickersonM81 I can agree with that, the rmr is only usable when new and in the proper setting such as when assault through an enemy position (within 50m or less) or in an c.q.b. environment. Also the rmr doesn't allow for a proper cheek weild causing recoil to affect the shooter far more.

@java9090 6 жыл бұрын

@Bdkj 3e you are correct.

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

Bowden aiming concept works great with a acog I like the rmr mount but personal gear vs issued gear 8ssues

@LukeBunyip 6 жыл бұрын

1:21 "XXXX" is a brand of Australian beer. Just saying.

@user-lt8yn7tr6q 6 жыл бұрын

There is a vid of russian Alpha doing some similar training to simulate a vehicle but thats a different ballgame

@goaliesforpres 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Ian! Do you think the bipod would have been long enough to use after you changed positions in the boat?

@Quoodle1 6 жыл бұрын

Might this be closer to a skill of shooting from a boat in rough seas? I so, prone would be available, or using a support. Something to work on incorporating in future matches it would seem.

@curious-relics 6 жыл бұрын

Shooting from a boat, I can buy that. But shooting from a boat, *down* into a ravine? I question the practicality of this stage, and the stage-designer's understanding of hydrology

@Quoodle1 6 жыл бұрын

Think of shooting from a merchant ship, naval vessel, or a cruise ship.

@curious-relics 6 жыл бұрын

Well that is a good point, I didn't think about it from that angle. But in that case, the wave motion would be much less pronounced. Shooting from a big ship like that would be more static than is portrayed in this kayak rig

@everettchris1 6 жыл бұрын

Those don't move like that though. That thing was moving around like a small boat in rough water... But even most rough water is fairly consistent. If the movement was "wave like", it would have been one thing. This was just being kicked around. "River rapids"? I suppose... But nobody is going to take shots in that situation, at least not beyond suppressive fire.

@davidschuring5757 6 жыл бұрын

That was ridiculous to watch with that RO throwing everything out of whack. I note the realism value of having the RO kick like you were bobbing in a river, but it was a bit much for a competition stage. One observation for Ian, it looked like you had the flexibility to lean all the way forward and rest the bipod on your legs or the boat. What made you discard that as soon as you changed positions? I would personally love to shoot this stage, and wish I could run it a few times. It looks like a very challenging stage to handle to improve my skills!

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

illegal position according to the RO subjectivity test. without the kicking it would be find

@zendell37 6 жыл бұрын

Listening to Karl talk about gun stuff is like listening to a sommelier talk about wine...but I don't want to punch him in the face.

@NookyAvenger 6 жыл бұрын

Both shitting the bed hard, that's a rare sight, there is no way in hell Ian would hit anything with the bipod on the kayak :). I think the second pass was too much.

@likydsplit8483 2 жыл бұрын

I think there is a reason Marines don’t storm beaches in kayaks.

@braxtonb3787 6 жыл бұрын

That boat looked like some bullshit

@JUNIORK1974 5 жыл бұрын

Screw that,I will be at the snack bar.

@KennyCnotG 6 жыл бұрын

They should have just put the kayak in a small pool, then you would have had real wave motion lol

@nbensema 6 жыл бұрын

Dang it Ian that is a boat not a sex swing

@austoful 6 жыл бұрын

well well well, who went and used a stacked optic after saying they were trash-garbage for years?

@jonkerr2050 6 жыл бұрын

That stage looked totally HORRIBLE.

@centurionfox3827 6 жыл бұрын

Good video

@Tommy1marg 4 жыл бұрын

Ian nad sporting rifles? I thought he doesn't like them :/

@TheNDFarmer 6 жыл бұрын

*yoink*

@alexandruianu8432 6 жыл бұрын

Man, throw a side rail on it and an RS regulate. And even better get a CSA or Czechpoint, cause the Century has gremlins.

@eightblockss 6 жыл бұрын

That was painful to watch

@KR-bn4bg 6 жыл бұрын

Lololol Karl

@Ws_minion 6 жыл бұрын

#bipodsmatter

@RalphReagan 6 жыл бұрын

Sorry this is just a comic book event. even worse than hard as hell.

@jediknight129 2 жыл бұрын

hard as hell at least has an attempt at fair shooter to shooter stages

@thatguynameddan2136 6 жыл бұрын

Just feels like a bad stage, like you cant learn from mistakes cause its just someone randomly kicking you in the ass. Left a bad taste in my mouth seeing that crap.