I was thinking of the same size for my backyard.

Our pleasure! Thanks for the comment.

I have that in mind , too.

Where do you get that at 4ft tubing?

@@reyman7131 he said 4 inch tubing, not 4ft. Any metal yard should have it

So far so good actually. It does wiggle when pushed but the wind doesn't really seem to be an issue. It only moves a little.

The natural oils in cedar will keep it going for a long time. It resists cracking slightly more than treated wood (or so I'm told). Plus it smells great.

The best part is no cutting. They design it to fit standard lumber. So mine was 12x12. Just got 12 foot 4x4s and everything fits. No saw needed.

So "yes" to answer your question.

@@TheGarage656 did you feel the 12ft long distance made it weaker in the middle of the horizontal post? Like what if an adult male tried to do pull-ups from the center of the 12ft horizontal post….. do you think it would break the beam? Or it feels strong

Eight feet for us. 10 feet would hit too many windows (visually).

@@TheGarage656 did you end up going with 10 foot ? I’m in the same boat trying to decide

Frankly I am still nervous that my 5 inch bolts into frame aren't enough when the storms hit. Imagine trying to hold 25 umbrellas in real winds. Its that kind of power.

Try cementing in 5 gallon bucket instead

Homedepot's top composite (grey plus other colours mixed). Veranda I believe is the name. Used in my cabin videos too. Works really well. Stands up to punishment.

Thanks for the comment. Some sort of anchor is needed for sure. The wind will pick this thing up like a kite.

@@TheGarage656 I knew it! I plan to take the sails off whenever I dont use it.

@@TheGarage656 newb question. Arent the joist spaced every 12 inches? Howd you screw into the joists? I believe the bracket is 6x6...

@@rickyr7790 I could only bolt half. Good observation. But the 2 bolts still hold.

@@TheGarage656 gotcha! This helps a ton. Thank you

Surprisingly it goes right through fabric.

Ahh, ok. Thanks!!

@@TheGarage656 this was my concern. We want this but also need something to prevent rain. Any tips of a way to have something block rain?

@@bradracine3426 I wish I did. We need to invent new fabric that is water diverting.

Tajo makes an umbrella top that seems suitable for rain. Just saw on their site

Yes on the drilling and joists. Bolted right into solid lumber under composite deck. I used the biggest lag bolts that would fit through holes in brackets. Construction screws, etc., would never be strong enough. I don't remember specifics. The extra crossbars are 4x4 cedar to keep furniture from hitting house and to rest drinks on, etc.

Yes. Those add some stability. The whole thing still wiggles (the nature of the product) but not much. The brackets are Toja and bolts from my local hardware store. Nothing special beyond the Toja Grid system.

So far one year going and still strong.

Drainage was never a big issue for me. The water just flows out the fabric. But perhaps you have a different fabric.

It sounds like you have wet lumber. Personally I wouldn't sand or plane it down because when it dries it will be too small. Ideally you would let it dry. If you can't wait then I'd probably use a hand held sander.

It holds in 70km winds. Lots of rain too. Snow would be a problem for fabric. Not not rated. I'm in Ontario Canada and so far so good. Taking fabric down in Oct.

Not snow rated.

@@TheGarage656 Excellent, thanks. Yeah, I'll defo be removing the fabric, I was more concerned about the frame itself. We're here in Ontario as well. Thanks again and keep up the good work.

Just a regular drill. Nothing complicated.

Really😂

Personally, I'd want more than patio stones holding it down (I know those are heavy). Just holding the corners down will probably end with a flip-over. Plus, even if you use tapcons (concrete screws), there probably isn't much hold to them (given how thin the stones are). Concrete like that just tends to crack and fall apart too ... sorry to say.

@@TheGarage656 Thank you for taking the time to respond. Please let me know what you would recommend - very much appreciated.

I know they have kits for heavy-ish loads such as hammocks but that requires extra braces on bottom, including extra lumber. Given that the joint ends do not overlap, i.e., the lumber holding a possible floor does not lay on top of the lumber holding the whole floor up (i.e., legs), it would not make for a good loft bed in the traditional sense (i.e., it is not traditional framing/load bearing support with weight following from top all the way to ground wood-to-wood). So hammocks, yep, with the right kit. Something more floor-like with a loft bed, that is outside the design expectations of the engineers I suspect.

Before drying, true 4x4. After drying ... not so much.

We are into spring now and the frame survived the winter/snow without any issues. So far so good.

Good question. Sorry I don't know. I just had some galvanized lags around so I used those. The lags were at least 3 inches but I do not know the width.

Where did you see the sale? Looking at them and I swear I saw a 20% deal last year

@@45breedjr Still on Facebook Marketplace. $300 for 4x4 clearance sale in Oakville

@@webherring Oakville? I’m struggling to find it.

@@45breedjr Toja Patio Furniture 450 S Service Rd W #3 Oakville

I suspect you are right. Good luck!

How about now :))

I honestly can't say. I would suspect the answer is "yes" but I've never done it and I don't know what kinds of loads/stresses the supports might be put under. Definitely a good question for the manufacturer who knows the load tolerances. Sounds fun though.

5 inch galvanized lag bolts from local hardware.

A bit yep. But not a lot. Enough to help.

Also thinking of installing on my rooftop with composite decking. How did your's turn out ? Any thing I shouod watch out for ?

@@gbaninja I used 5" Tapcon concrete anchors to hit the concrete way below but I think it went through the whole slab. Otherwise still holding up strong (with some wood cracks). Only thing I would suggest is to remove the fabric top on windy days as it does shake quite a bit in strong winds (especially 60ft up)

@@Suthan.Mano28 perfect thanks! I am afraid of hitting the roof membrane if I go through the slabs. I might anchor in a few 2×6's to the sub-frame. 🤞🏾

@@gbaninja Hopefully I didn't with the 5" screws, no issues thus far

It still wobbles a little, nothing annoying or bad. You could install corner braces and those would help, but then you may as well forget the metal brackets and just do wood framing (save the money). I got these to avoid the look of braces and so far it is holding up great.

That worked for me nicely.

I'd be curious what the manufacturer suggests on that one. I.e., how many feed down and what size of diameter for concrete. Surely deep enough and wide enough would work. Never tried that myself.

I take it down every year. The snow would be a problem.

Nope. Fortunately. The cedar is holding up.

We've had 70 km/h gusts so far. No problem.

Into deck frame. Composite would never hold in any kind of wind.

Yep. 12 feet around the top.

12 feet from corner to corner bracket.

We did 12x12 from post to post. So the 12ft 4x4s meet end to end without any cutting. We find it big but larger might be nice too. It has survived big winds. Not sure about a 16 footer.

We are looking at this as well (want to do 14'x14'). Toja says it only recommends 12'x12' without adding a middle post. We're considering putting angle brackets to add extra support. Thoughts?

What kind of wood did you use?

@@rlrl79 Cedar even though it does cost a bit more.

My composite decking doesn't have any "hold-down" strength. Composite is just plastic and woodchips, nothing structural. The pergola is a giant umbrella that the wind wants to take away ... badly. If the decking is secured really well (unlike composite which often just lays on top with hidden fasteners made of plastic), you will hopefully be just fine. Just think "giant umbrella" and anchor it really well.

@@TheGarage656 Awesome, thank you for the explanation.

I can't say for sure but I suspect it would be cheaper (or at least close). The main factor for me is that the metal brackets just look a lot nicer (less blocking your view). If you hire someone to build it, it will need corner braces that will take up a lot of visual space. Less about money for me. More about clean lines.

@@TheGarage656 cool thank u. And it looks lime anybody could install this

@@TheGarage656 I need corner braces anyways because my deck is bigger than 12 feet👎🏻

8 feet.

Next time will be using 6x6 lumber instead of 4x4.

@@TheGarage656 great question! I’ve been on the fence about a 4x4 system or a 6x6 for aesthetic reasons. The 6x6 is better looking in my opinion. Why would you go for a 6x6?

@@bisniskidcali9998 I prefer 4x4 unless it was a huge top in a windy location. Then maybe 6x6. I don't want to be looking at lumber if I don't have to do so.

I don't see why not.

4x4 cedar. Holds up really well.

Lag bolts into frame (under the deck topping which is just plastic). The bolts are much heavier than screws and have held nicely. Your frame should be at least 2x6, probably larger. Leaving lots of space for long bolts.

@@TheGarage656 ok. Thank you!

Me too

12x12 and every region is different for price. This was about 1500.00 including lumber.

Nice

I cannot recall now but it was not cheap. Prices fluctuate all the time.

Cedar. So far no problems with it.

Pergola Corner Bracket

Colour matching shims is a great idea!

Wow. Thanks for sharing. I hadn't thought about the possibilities, especially when not installed correctly. Of course nothing will stop the big winds, installed correctly or not.

🐎 💩

Even if it’s screwed down ?

I screwed mine down (lag bolt screws) and so far so good ... even after huge storms. Let's see what year two brings.

Its used as a shelf and to keep the couch from hitting the wall each time someone hits it. Works well as both.