Glad it was helpful!

Yea it's ok, not great but ok. More convenient. :)

So after almost 2 years of using internals on my toms live, I've found that as long as I take the time to tune them, they sound less weird....still not as good as external mics IMHO, but doable. The convenience factor makes it OK. :) I always wanted a Vistalite kit, but 3 things: 1-doesn't the acrylic scratch? 2-They're expensive. 3-I want them in red, and Ludwig doesn't do red. Overall how do you like them? They sound good?

@@thecreativedrummer5546 Yeah they are pretty loud and punchy sounding especially with the black dot heads. I play in a Zeppelin tribute (Led Astray based in Scotland, there are a few clips on my other channel) so that's the main reason I wanted a Vistalite, to get Bonham's live sound! I wouldn't say the shells are prone to scratching, but they do crack. I have a couple of cracks on my kit, one on the bass drum and one on a floor tom. I've heard the RCI Starlights are pretty good, not sure if they are still available though, but I'm sure they made them in red. My Ludwig kit is a red / amber swirl big beat kit (13, 14, 16, 18, 24) from the 70's!

Thanks and glad you enjoyed it! The only problem with your scenario is that it's really hard to mix from behind a drum kit. But sure, many bands mix from the stage without using a front-of-house sound man. In my situation, I really have no idea what it sounds like through the FOH speakers. All kit mics go directly to a Yamaha FOH mixer, which has the ability to send monitor submixes. I have my own monitor mix as a result. Next to me is a very small Behringer mixer that receives my monitor mix on channel 1, and I also have a click on another channel. The Yamaha mixer has the ability for me to literally create my own monitor mix via an app on my iPhone over WiFi. I use in-ear monitors to hear everything, so I can adjust my mix on my iPhone at any time. I love this system! :)

Thanks for your insight. However, I'm not gonna start adding any sort of internal dampening material to the drum because, well, I'm too lazy! :) I've managed to get a decent sound via EQ, as I showed in the video. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that internal miking itself is responsible for a "modern" drum sound when what you hear may very well be a triggered sample. That said, a long time ago I was in a show in which Terry Bozzio was also performing. He showed us his rig (he was endorsing Remo drums at the time). Each tom had an internal mic fed directly into its own Alesis MicroVerb. His drums sounded incredible! But then again, Terry sounds amazing no matter what!

That's a good idea! The thing is, I'm not going to remove the mics that I've already mounted inside my 2 toms to do that. However, that kit actually has 2 MORE toms, and 8" and a 12". I fully intend to mount another Pyle mic in the 12", and when I do I'll do a comparison as you suggested. I will predict the Pyle mic will be at as good on the snare as the 57. Thanks!

You're totally welcome.....glad you found it useful! I need to make a follow-up because after installing the same setup on my 10" tom and using the system on 3 live gigs, I have concluded that for LIVE playing, internal mikes ROCK! The isolation allows the FOH dude to EQ exclusively for each drum without having to worry about the issues that inevitably happen with radical EQ curves. Bottom line the sound guy THANKED me for having internal mics, and drummers in the audience came up to me after the show and told me the tom sound was killer.....I was not expecting that!

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z6l7dauc38-0foU.html

About 6-9 inches from the batter, closer to the edge, and aimed toward the opposite lug. Then toss a bit of lightweight furniture foam around the shell to kill the "Basketball Effect" He had the right idea, but missed the mark on placement and mounting. Using L Brackets and a set of mini-bungees, with a few straps to hold it all together is the way. (Mine are internal mic'ed in the studio, and it's great! Soundguys love me after the skepticism wears off after they hear it through the PA.

Thanks for your thoughts. It turns out the installation was way better than I thought for LIVE gigs. Making a follow-up video to report results. Rock on bro!

Thanks for your input! I tried every conceivable mic placement/angle, including pointing towards the bottom head. While there was some variation in the overall sound of the drum, it wasn't enough to approach something as good as an external mic to my ears. After using internal mics in live shows now for many months, I'm still of the opinion that for recording, external mics are the way to go. For live playing, it's not a bad option as long as you are able to set a pretty radical EQ curve, which sometimes isn't practical if you have a shitty FOH guy at the board. :)

Yes I now have the mics mounted deep in as low as possible. I do get compliments as to how good the toms sound, but when I've let other drummers sit in, I have to say, standing there listening, the toms sound "sort of" ok to my ears. In my mind there is no internal mic scenario that can compete with external mics! That said, I use my internally mic'd kit alot, cuz it's just more convenient. Yea, I'm that lazy. 😆

Yea so for live gigs these internal mics inside the toms have worked out great, especially considering the cost!! I've looked at the MAY system but found it too expensive for my taste. No, I have not mounted an internal mic in my snare yet. I'm still on the fence about that. The snare for that kit sounds really good as is, and I really don't want to mess with it. Plus, the Pyle 57 clone is too large in my opinion for a 5" deep shell so doesn't allow for many angles. Placement is pretty important. For these reasons I'm reluctant. If I could find a reasonably-priced mic that was small enough to easily fit inside the drum I'd probably go for it though. Definitely let me know how you make out with your Sakae kit!

I tried every internal mic position possible. The bottom line is the sound of the tom inside the inner chamber of the shell can't compare to the sweet, warm sound when using external mics.

Links to everything are in the comments section. If you don't see them, click "SHOW MORE" below the description text.

Thanks

I've tried that. I use an internally mic'd kit live with a FOH system. The toms sound weird but passable, so I'm not a fan of internal miking. However the convenience of simply plugging an XLR cable to the shells is worth it....yes I'm that lazy. :)

The Gibralter mounts come with a rubber template that sits between the plate and the shell. I suppose I could try a thicker piece of rubber, but I'm too lazy. :)

That's interesting! No, it never occurred to me to try that. I've always thought of mics being in or out of phase, not the source and the mic. Off the top of my head, I don't believe it would make a difference, but there's only one way to find out. I'll give that a shot and report my results. You've piqued my curiosity. Thanks for that suggestion!!

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure what you are trying to do. Are you miking internally? Externally? Also understand that this Pyle mic (and the Shure SM57 it mimics), has a very limited application as it pertains to RECORDING. I'd be a bit leary of using 2 of these for overheads. Also, there is no substitute for a good sounding drum acoustically, so taking the time to tune correctly is essential. No mic can help a bad-sounding drum. Regardless, if you can be more specific as to how you're miking the drum(s), and also WHICH drum you're talking about, I would be happy to try to help you. Thanks!

The Creative Drummer I’ve been experimenting and I’ve gotten a great kick sound and great overhead and Tom sounds. I am externally close miking the snare and that’s where I’m getting not the greatest sound. I added some eq and it made a big improvement, but still not great. I can’t put the mic too close to the drum, or it clips. It has to be around a foot away so I don’t get a nice close mic sound. Should I try lowering the gain or something like that?

@@theshep2.037 Yea you need to decrease your input gain from that mic to get it closer. A foot away is never gonna work.

The Creative Drummer thanks man!

2 reasons: 1-the May system is too expensive, and 2-After checking out other drummer's videos, including May endorser Thomas Lange, I concluded that no matter what mic is used, the acoustic characteristics of internal mics can't compare to that of external mics.

I sounds strange because the sound inside the shell is much different than ambient sound...phase is not an issue. I use that kit for live gigs in certain situations and have made recordings off of the board. I'm not thrilled with the toms but it's ok for what it is. I would NEVER use internal mics for serious recording. External mics are just the way to go.

So far so good.....

REALLY?! I don't think I've ever seen anyone both internally AND externally mic a drum, regardless of where the internal mic is pointed. I agree, that seems pointless. I suppose I didn't make it clear enough in the video. I DID try pointing the mic at the reso head, as well as every other possible placement. My conclusion is it doesn't matter WHERE the mic is pointing. When compared to external placement; external mics sound better....period. If you have gotten results you are happy with by pointing the mic at the reso head, that's awesome. Thanks for your input!

@@thecreativedrummer5546 sorry if my comment seemed brash.. wasn’t my intention. Here’s something you can try.. roll off the high end from the “internal” mics.. mix them in with the external mic similar to a “sub kick” mic. The toms all of a sudden sound twice as big. 👍🏼

@@DanMarcelino That ship has sailed for me. I have concluded that internal mics are an inferior way to mic drums....even though I do use them on one of my kits...specifically the one I use for live gigs in shitty venues commonly known as gin mills. :) The goal is to save time by NOT having to hook up external mics so it's not worth the time and effort to do what you suggest. I know I'm committing drumming heresy but I just don't care that much how the drums sound in some shithole bar....I really just want to get in and out as quickly as possible, especially at the end of the gig when I'm tired and breaking down the kit is the last thing I feel like doing. However, I can totally see how your suggestion might work! Finally, I didn't interpret your comment as brash. I appreciate your input! Thanks.

@@thecreativedrummer5546 ahh I gotcha! No worries and I hear you.. a true working musician 👍🏼 quick simple set ups 👌🏼 I’m glad I didn’t upset you in any way 👍🏼👍🏼 have a great weekend!

OK I checked my original video and saw that I had edited out the footage in which I tried the Sennheiser MD421, arguably THE best mic for toms, and it also sounded weird. Not sure why I did that, but I'm guessing I was trying to keep the video short. In retrospect, I really should've kept that segment in. I've never tried the Audix D6, but I'm sure it's a great choice for toms. Regardless, I'm convinced the issue is that any mic placed INSIDE of a tom is not going to sound very good....period. Or to be more precise, it won't sound like it does OUTSIDE of the drum. If you're inclined to try an Audix D6 internally I'd love to know what results you observed though! Thanks for the suggestion.....at some point I may invest in a few of those Audix mics. I've heard very good things about them!

LOL you just presented a good arguement FOR internal mics - theft! As I said in the video, I actually use internals mics on one of my live kits....for convenience, not for sound quality....but I'm happy to report not one mic has even bee stolen! :)

First of all, I'm glad you found a solution that suits your needs! I think I was pretty clear in the video that I am trying to save setup and tear-down time in a live, bar-type situation, and do so as CHEAPLY AS POSSIBLE. There was no way I was gonna spend several hundred dollars on Audix D6 mics. That said, I'm convinced any mic placed INSIDE of a tom is not going to sound as good as it does OUTSIDE of the drum, and that's what I said in my video. If internal drum mics were even on par with external mics, you'd see them used a lot more in live as well as studio environments.....but you don't. In fact, I have NEVER seen a recording studio internally miking toms, and I've spent a minute or 2 playing in high-end studios. Lastly, you may have seen the video in which Thomas Lange uses the May internal mounts using D6s in his toms. Towards the end, he records the kit using only those internal mics. To my ears, they just don't sound good. Regardless, I appreciate your comment and stipulate that the Pyle PDMIC78 is not as good as the Audix D6 for toms, internally or externally. :) Here's a link to the video I mentioned: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/othzYK2j2sCRmKc.html

@@thecreativedrummer5546 have you ever tried a kick mic internally? Yeah the Lang video... I know what you mean... But this sound comes also due to the tuning an positioning.. Do you see his reaction? Seems like he got the sound he wanted. In another Video he even combines internal and external mics. You sure have more experience than me but maybe it's not about that in this case. Maybe not soo many people tried to put kick mics in toms.

@@StraponCockpit Hey thanks for the reply! The kick is a much different animal than toms, and yes I've done lots of different variations/mic placements with kick drums. In the studio, there are usually AT LEAST 2 mics on the kick, one internal at the sound hole and one external. I've done sessions where there were 5 different mics just for the kick (overkill IMHO)! Also on that same kit in which I installed internal tom mics, I have an internal Shure Beta 52A mounted via the Kelly SHU, placed dead-center and roughly 8 inches from the batter. I'm OK with the way that sounds. So let me clarify that I am specifically talking about toms. As far as Thomas Lange's reaction, I'm a bit skeptical. I should point out that he's an A-Level endorser of DW Drums (they bought the May Miking System years ago) as well as Audix (at least he was when he made that YT video). He's not gonna bite the hand that feeds him! :) None of this is meant to disparage Thomas in an way....he's an amazing drummer, and endorsing products is a fact of life as another source of income. However, you can find much more recent videos where he's tracking drums for his solo project. You will notice there is not one internal tom mic to found! Here's a link to one: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fa2GqMiGzMnIo6s.html. Personally I'm fascinated by recording in general and drums in particular. It sounds like you're experimenting and that's the best way to learn, so keep at it!

@@thecreativedrummer5546 thanks for your openness and kindness! Of course i meant did you ever try a kick mic in a tom internally! So did you? I understand what you mean and in the studio i'd of course try to combine inside and outside mics. Yeah i'm experimenting and if you're interrested i'd be happy to send you some files and pictures as soon as i'm ready so you can check out the results yourself. And we can discuss about it and find out new amazing things together! 🤘 Just write me on: " broeckl (at) gmx.net "

Before I address your assertion, you should know I did test using not only a 57, but also an AKG 460B w/ a CK 61-ULS capsule, a Sennheiser 421 (industry standard for miking toms), an EV RE20, and an Audio Technica 4033 large diaphragm condenser mic. I wound up deleting all of that from the video because it was over 30 minutes long and I wanted it to be under 15 minutes tops. Also, at the time I felt that the point of the video wasn't which mic is best, but which miking technique is best. So in that context it was kind of irrelevant which mic I used since the comparison was internal vs external. I settled on the 57 (actually it wasn't a 57....more on that in a bit) because I knew that was the mic I was going to use on gigs. (Please view the 1st 5 minutes or so to see what mic I actually used.) Plus, I guess you missed the part of the video where I clearly explained WHY I was internally miking the toms on my live kit to begin with (sound quality was NOT the only factor). Regardless, I stand by my conclusion.....external miking is far superior, regardless of what mic is used. In all fairness you didn't know that I tested using several different mics cuz I cut all that footage out...in retrospect maybe not such a good decision on my part. :) However, I disagree that the 57 is the "wrong" mic to begin with. I've been on recording sessions where the 57 was used on all my toms and they sounded amazing. All of that said, you are of course welcome to internally mic drums using any mic you choose. Either way thanks for your interest! :)

@@thecreativedrummer5546 thank you for responding. Sorry if I sounded like a judgemental jerk at first. I don't mean to... maybe I should use more emojies and smiles more often... lol anyways, I experimented all the time with this kind of stuff when I had my home studio. If I may, I would recommend a better mic with better low end. I find the lewitt MTD 550 is an outstanding mic on everything I throw it on. It has the quality of a SM7B but at the price of a 57 and has a much better low end and it just sounds awesome on everything. With that being said, I would also recommend you use that eq to pin point the frequency response of the drum and cut it out as much as possible to kill that unwanted bleed. And if I might make a request, could you, somstime make a video of a snare being miced from the inside? Like, through a hole on the side? We typically use 2 mics on a snare drum (1 top, 1 bottom) so why not throw on mic in the middle and possibly get the best of both worlds with one mic? Just an idea. 🤪 lol

OK so I mounted internal mics for my live kit in order to save setup and tear-down time.....period. I use a radical EQ to round out that harsh, brittle sound from internal miking. Do they sound great? No. Are they acceptable for some shitty bar? Yup. That's good enough for me in that context. Plus, I wanted the lowest cost setup I could find.....again....shitty bar, not Wembly Stadium. :) I wound up using Plyle PDMIC78s.....they sound as good as a 57 at $12 each! As for recording....I've never met a recording engineer who tested internal miking that thought it sounded good. That said if you're getting good results with your setup then great! I have no interest in internally miking my snare. It sounds great as is.....and I can handle one external mic on my kit. :)

@@thecreativedrummer5546 well, I would try it if I still had my drums and studio but sadly, I don't :/ and I have used techniques in the past that I made up on the spot that turned into my go-to setups. Like putting my snare through an overdrive guitar pedal, micing a box shelf that's reflecting a guitar cabinet, using a rockband mic for a snare mic (surprisingly impressive), recording guitar then playing the track through a better amp setup from my iPhone and all kinds of stuff like that. Miced my toms up internally once but only with the batter heads on so it didn't ring out. What made it work with the crappy mics I had at the time was the gate I put on it. Bottom line, never stop experimenting with new ideas 😁👍

It's definitely not a crappy mic. Please watch the beginning again. Also: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z6l7dauc38-0foU.html