that's what I'm sayin, the possibilities are bigger than people realize

In our PnP campaign Rangers were always trappers ! Why wouldnt they be? Also masters of all bows and xbows and firearms ...again why wouldn't they be. Rangers historically were.

Man I'm really enjoying the class, currently fiddling with balancing in some tabaxi and khopesh for flavor but now I'm thinking on reincarnate I'll try for daggers and vistani

I have a pure rogue assassin with only 26 sneak attack dice. And here comes a damn ranger that outdoes that.

"There is nothing an assassin can do that another class can't do better" Funny you say this about the class that outdoes every single other class in the game at single target endgame melee dps.

@@StanlyMcStanson so you disagree that a potential 45 sneak attack dice on this ranger is not going to outdo my pure rogues 26 SA? Including their own assassins trick rippoff?

​@@PDPresents he has legit pick up nearly every single sneak attack dice he can get. if he was a pure rogue with everything the same, he would have had 32 sneak attack dice instead.

DDO dev's don't play/tolerate Rogues. 1. They took away Cheat Death from Rogues(Monks have Rise of Phoenix). 2. Mechanic Rogues had pet dog, now gone to Artificers and boosted every Mechanic feat away from Mechanical Rogue. 3. Rogues had flasks and vials to throw at targets, now they made Alchemists do the same but 20 times better. 4. Assassinate should be Prestigious and end game powerful(at touch distance), now Dark Ranger can do it from their couch and not have any liability from accessing it and spamming. 5. Oh yah, that trap thing Rogues do....well Rangers can now do it better, they can send a lupine canid and spot it, but here's the kicker, you know those traps Rogues can disable and get jack squat nothing for? Well Rangers can one up that and throw those stupid traps from a distance at a target and use it against them(bear trap). And to StanlyMcStanson's comment, of single target endgame melee dps, I've never seen a Rouge at end game have the most kills; that usually goes to major dps Artificers and Sorcerers

That would be really good.

i just wasnt able to find ying build for the max dps bow build

Sic em, great idea.

Sort of. For general leveling or with inconsistent players, tempest is a better general tree. Dark hunter is more niche and works better in static groups and raid groups, as well as having a lot of utility for hard-core. But for the regular servers dark hunter makes a better tempest.

I started playing when the Blue Box only came with chits. Dice were just coming out. You are correct. Bards did end up with some thief abilities. A 1st edition bard was a special class. If I remember correctly you had to start as a fighter for some levels then shift to thief for a few more levels then you could become a bard. The class info was near the end of the 1st edition Players Handbook.

Previous DND video games would have the bard with lockpicking abilities

Bards were "Jacks of all trades". A little fighter, a little rogue, a little caster. I don't recall them originally having any healing ability though. Was always a very unutilized, misunderstood class because of all the singing and music and stuff. Seemed very "one note" if you will.

@@drizzo4669 I don’t either they were mostly a rogue/wizard who could sing

I've found that with practice you can make the admixtures work well and to have their own place to shine. Yes, they are slow and can miss, but man are they efficient sometimes

14 intelligence should be enough to do all the traps

@@Strimtom Fair enough. It always felt like my groups rogue suffered a bit on the traps on our third life doing elites. They weren't impassable or anything, but there were times when bad luck made itself known. But we don't have past lives to support us yet, and our gear is passable. Still had to rely on buffs occasionally to get through traps especially in sharn.

14 intelligence won't cut it on R6 raids or R10 groups.

This class would be one of the better pick users in the game, but I don't know if that can bring the old death nip build back

light picks as a gnome has some potential with their racial threat boost, that'd make them 18-20/x6 with improved crit... not so often as other weapons quite a kick when they do

@@denewst01 ya with all these cool subclasses DDO keeps making I hope thay make iconics that use them I just Wana play a Duegar dwarf with a heavy pick dang it I have a good everbright one

@@denewst01 you don't need to be a gnome for this, since you can +1 threat range with all weapons for 21 points in deepwoodstalker, which is why I said heavy pick

@@Strimtom ahh wasn't paying attention & for some reason thought dws was the multiplier one, my bad

I don't think so. I believe there will still be a need for them and a desire to play them.

Good thing there are no rouges, Dark Rangers are stepping on ROGUE toes though.

We don't know if this will have a cost yet, but the first set of archetypes did not.

Dark hunter is a ranger, so you can be rogue/dark hunter, or rogue/ranger, but you cannot multiclass dark hunter and ranger since they are both rangers

To be fair, that's what the enhancement trees are too.

@@witchdoctorwill1796 yes they are. Noticed that along time ago.