Is Liberalism a Sin? Timothy Gordon and John Zmirak Guests

Рет қаралды 6,776

4 жыл бұрын

T. S. Flanders, J. Bannister and K. Hall discuss the global liberal revolution since 1776 with special guests Timothy Gordon and John Zmirak. This is part of an ongoing discussion at Meaning of Catholic on modern politics including Liberalism, Communism, Feminism and Catholic Social Teaching in various countries.
The Modern Catholic Liberal Disaster: Why Conservatives and Trads Must Unite meaningofcatholic.com/2019/09...
Timothy Gordon’s channel: / @rulesforretrogrades
John Zmirak’s publication: thestream.org
J. Bannister @paleocrat writing at Meaning of Catholic: meaningofcatholic.com/categor...
K. Hall @kennedyhall writing at Meaning of Catholic: meaningofcatholic.com/categor...
K. Hall new series on Christ the King and Liberalism at Fatima Center: fatima.org/news-views/the-kin...
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Пікірлер: 41

@maggiesace389 2 жыл бұрын

Tim Gordons book, Catholic Republic: Why America Need Rome, explains well...how "freedom/pursuit of happiness" was a slippery slope to licentiousness...without Catholic Subsidiarity/Natural Law. Not to force people to profess Catholic Church, but that without Catholic Subsidiarity/Natural Law being taught/upheld...just, a slippery slope of liberalism/modernism/protestantism. Was a GOOD book!

@brandonrobinson3834 3 жыл бұрын

You need more of these collaborations

@decluesviews2740 4 жыл бұрын

This is an excellent example of high level discussion of complex issues of importance for the Church and the world that is extremely rare to find. Kudos! I thoroughly enjoyed it! These are issues I continue to struggle with and about which I have not come to a conclusion. You know it's good when it is as long as a block buster movie but keeps your attention better and leaves you wanting more. Well done!

@rmo6749 4 жыл бұрын

Great conversation... a bit messy with cams and times but quality conversation! Keep at it and God bless.

@hannahdavia8791 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic discussion. Thank you and God bless you all

@Johannes3006 4 жыл бұрын

St. Robert Bellarmine, "On Temporal and Spiritual Authority", Chapter 18: "Just as it is not beneficial to allow sheep the freedom to wander through the mountains, and it is not beneficial to free the ship from its steering oar and allow it to be carried freely by the wind, so also it is not beneficial to allow the peoples freedom of belief after they have joined the one true faith."

@tpfr247 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome show, keep 'em coming please!

@mgk22 4 жыл бұрын

THE CATHOLIC TRIO IS BACK!!!! With some cool guests

@chrisloftson6705 4 жыл бұрын

Great video! Thank you for having this conversation with Gordon and Zmirak, it's needed. Zmirak is particularly egregious when it comes to his neocon doctrines he adamantly believes to be correct. He has even said that if he's persuaded that the Church has infallibly taught against Liberalism, he will leave the Catholic Church. Sadly, he shows a lack of the theological virtue of faith.

@TheJocelynrae 4 жыл бұрын

Do you have a link to where he said that, by chance. I have never heard of him before.

@chrisloftson6705 4 жыл бұрын

@@TheJocelynraeHe sometimes makes that type of comment on twitter. He also writes articles often at The Stream. Some of them tend to be against Catholic Trads.

@TheJocelynrae 4 жыл бұрын

@@chrisloftson6705 Thanks. I'll have to try to look him up. I found some of his arguments troubling. And if he's saying things along the lines of "if I disagree with an infallible teaching, then I'll leave rather than submit" that's definitely not good and smells of protestantism to me.

@robertcarlin4876 4 жыл бұрын

We need a ~10 part series on the traditional understanding of the infalliblity of the Ordinary Magisterium. That was just nuts.

@dimek1943 4 жыл бұрын

This has been a fascinating show, more discussion like this is greatly appreciated please, and needed to hash out these topics which are so fundamental. Thanks gents!

@Johannes3006 4 жыл бұрын

St. Robert Bellarmine, "This error (political religious freedom) is, however, very dangerous, and without a doubt the Christian princes are obliged not to grant their subjects freedom of belief but to see to it that the faith that the Catholic bishops and especially the Supreme Pontiff teach to be the true one is preserved." - chapter 18 of "On Temporal and Spiritual Authority"

@Latarniczka 4 жыл бұрын

Great respite from the virus! I feel healthier already Learned a lot. Thanks guys!

@Johannes3006 4 жыл бұрын

27:43 It was not General Lee that Pius IX sent a crown of thorns to. It was Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederacy.

@chicago618 2 жыл бұрын

Actually it wasn’t even Davis. The whole Pius IX sending him the crown of thorns is a urban legend. It was Varina Davis his wife who sent it to him. The mixup occurred because the letter Pius IX sent was kept together with the crown.

@KoalaBear499 3 жыл бұрын

The irony is that the pursuit of sacred freedom leads without fail in the end to various forms of slavery, either to others or our own appetites. Because he who will not rule himself will end up ruled by others. Tempered by the faith, we have endeavoured to manage freedom & authority to maximise the former, but without the faith the centre cannot hold.

@Anthony-vd3qn 4 жыл бұрын

There is a book by Tan Books titled "Liberalism is a sin". Check it out.

@cjgodley1776 4 жыл бұрын

This was very interesting. Thank you! A welcome respite from everything going on. The "free market" conversation seems strange, given that we live (in U.S.) live in a corporatocracy. Large chain companies routinely "snuff out" mom and pop stores. People are more detached - as we will increasingly see if this coronavirus thing keeps playing out -- from their essential supply chains and that makes people quite dependent upon the corporatocracy at the moment. Means of production has not been in the hands of most of the average people for quite some time. I think we will see just how disconcerting this form of corporate "capitalism" really is very shortly.

@paulturner5585 2 жыл бұрын

Do you have a question or not tim

@adanak 4 жыл бұрын

Hi - interesting discussion. Can you provide the link to the video where you discuss Catholic social teaching and the three forms of government the Church approves? I'm keen to watch this, but I can't tell which video it is by looking at the titles.

@TheMeaningofCatholic 4 жыл бұрын

adanak we discuss it here, but not in detail: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq6YgbRo393Fl4k.html. Bellarmine is the one who talks about the Church herself having these three forms, which (I believe) he writes in Controversies.

@chicago618 2 жыл бұрын

Zmirak has discredited himself as a serious Catholic thinker. He’s a Protestant in heart and mind. He’s also a fool. I agree there is no social magisterium but he’s under the impression that we can pick and choose. That’s not how it works. Also there is no rupture between the Church pre and post V2 on religious liberty or slavery. As for his comments on Pius IX you should have called him out by getting him to cite the source. In his article he wrote about a social magisterium he says what Pope Pius IX said was as late as 1866 but on your show he says it was late as 1859. Which is it? Like on the show he doesn’t cite a primary source. Zmirak also left out of his recounting of Louis and the Huguenots that it was Pope Innocent XI came to the rescue of the Huguenots and condemned what Louis XIV did on the grounds of religious freedom of conscience type principles. Also as I commented elsewhere here the Pius 9 to Davis crown is a myth.

@johnpglackin345 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, being a liberal is sinful.

@johnpglackin345 4 жыл бұрын

@mary albrecht Actually their was nothing wrong with the Inquisition. If influential people in the Church are teaching and doing things against the Catholic Faith than they should be removed. Since they are misleading people away from God and the One True Catholic Church.

@Charon-5582 3 жыл бұрын

1:26:30 so... naloxone?

@Johannes3006 4 жыл бұрын

St. Robert Bellarmine, "On Temporal and Spiritual Authority", Chapter 22: "the Church tolerates Jews, so why not heretics? I reply, first, that the Jews never accepted the Christian faith, while the heretics did. Second, the Jews worship the religion that God established, even though temporarily, while heretics worship a religion invented by the Devil."

@berniepeng 4 жыл бұрын

The problem is that we are fallen! it's Original Sin! the solution is to evangelize and convert the world to Catholicism, but this will be a problem because their will be those who reject God completely.