Have we settled this? Where does Campagnolo fit into this mix?

Lots of companies make bike components that sound like they should compete with Shimano on paper, but in my experience Shimano has the small details down better such as shift smoothness and component longevity. Also in Shimano's favour is that their cheap parts, when new, can perform damn near as well as their more expensive parts. The main difference between cheap vs expensive is that the cheaper parts wear out and get sloppy much faster and become difficult to keep in perfect adjustment.

Really liking the content! Greetings from Finland!

I heard a new SRAM will be out 2023. Right now as it stands, Shimano for road and Sram for basically anything off road. Sram's mix and matching gives so much more flexibility for anything that is not strictly road. Now, Campagnolo is just for purists imo but their Ekar groupset and good for gravel

You really do amazing review. Never stop! Love your vids!

This will open a can of worms. My bias, I am a SRAM guy, but maybe not for the right reason. I raced in another lifetime on Campy, I did a decade or so on Dura Ace before SRAM was even around.My SL5 and SL7 had Red eTap and Force reactively. I am old, I appreciate the simplicity and engineering in SRAM. I especially like the No words stuff, to me it makes a difference. As I begin working on a gravel build I will likely go to Force AXS. Keep the good stuff coming, respect your opinion.

👍 Chris, nice work bro. I looking forward to you and TBD riding the front of Coffee Crew and holding off-season/winter pacing... if that is posable? KF

Great vid, Chris! I am a Shimano guy, but I have yet to dabble in eTap and Di2.

Both groups are excellent overall, I just prefer the SRAM axs etap shifting. It is a fine line that comes down to personal preference related to shifting IMO.

I'm Shimano all the way, but I just built a gravel bike with Sram Force XPLR 1x and it works great so far. Got a couple of races coming up so we'll see how it goes. For road, it's Shimano, hands down. But, I'd never use a Shimano power meter crank. I have Quarq cranks with Quarq DFour spiders and DA chainrings on my road bikes. They just work.

For me, Shimano performs better in terms of shifting and ergonomics. My Dura Ace and GRX shifters are way more comfortable than the Force AXS shifters. I’ve had my Shimano drop a chain and with soft pedaling get the chain back up on the chainring. SRAM is great for ease of installation (that little plastic tool to lineup the rear derailleur is so simple and genius). SRAM cranks, chains, and cassettes look way nicer.

I love my Campagnolo mechanical 12 speed very reliable only downside is you have to carry spare chain and cables as most shops don’t carry Campagnolo. As for EPS i’ve heard it’s really good but it’s way out of my price range. Apparently they’re going to re-release a lower tier EPS. I have Shimano and sram on two bikes I own but love mechanical Campagnolo.

I'm, a big Campy fan. Campagnolo has something that Shimano and Sram don't have. It's called Pedigree. Campagnolo's racing pedigree is absolutely second to none. Unfortunately most young people these days, don't know anything about this. Campy has many firsts. First 9 speed, 10 speed, and 11 speed cassette drive trains. Mr. Tullio Campagnolo invented the quick release skewer. This may not mean much, or anything to many people today, but it's a very big deal in cycling. Too many take this simple technology, and other Campagnolo innovations for granted. That is why I will always be a big Campagnolo fan. Thanks.

Been doing this a long time started in the 80s when campy was king. You know what they still are. Have a cross bike and a gravel bike currently all sram one by. My vintage road all campy. A huge fan of mechanical reliability and cost. Have the new ekar group on a shelf for the rodeo labs flaanimal i have on order. The range did it for me. To get range out of my other gravel bike had to go to an e thirteen cassette on my rival group. My gravel bikes are loaded heavy for camping racing is not what I do. parts no problems buy before you need them. Yeah if I owned six less bikes and it was daily transportation I would consider buying from the fishing reel company because they have parts on shelves. The true great company from Japan was suntour. The slant parallelogram derailleur and indexed shifting was them in the sixties. Shimano only took off because the patents were out. Before that they just copied campy and poorly. Heck the great group they built before the suntour patent was the ten pich track group. It was campy copy with a huge chain was the biggest pre suntour patients win for them. Ax was a massive fail with the silly huge pedal shafts and a super record copy shifting or should I bring up the stupidly that was biopace 160 degrees off from logic? They are not better they just strong armed their way into the pro road market during their bubble economy era with mad cash and suntour's patients. Just because pro teams use them just means they are paid to. Because giant companies have Shimano on bikes means they sell to them at a higher discount for more profit. Ride a campy equipped bike the build quality is amazing. Also the crankset wont fall apart

I race gravel, and SRAM dominates that space. And if you want a 1x setup, road or gravel - SRAM makes that super easy.

To me also the availability of spare parts (and the prices for it) are an important factor as I keep my bikes for several years. And for Shimano it is probably easier and cheaper to get spare parts around the world.

Hi there. I had a road bike with Campagnolo Mirage back then. After 2 seasons I changed it with Ultegra 6600. Now I have Sram on my mtb and a mix and match Ultegra Shifters and derailleur front and rear with DA crank set and 105 cassette (on my everyday wheelset) but I have also Ultegra cassette on my race wheelset.

I use Shimano di2 (9100) , sram red axs, and campy SR eps (rim brake) I find Shimano best for road due to crisp shifting and I like the braking, campy seems to be a close second for Road shifting but the front mech is not as good as Shimano. Multishift is super fast. I use sram for gravel/all road. Sram rear shifting is not as quite as crisp but not bad. The front shifting leaving something to be desired as it comes out of alignment frequently . The braking is fine. With that said the gear ratios and the method of shifting is good for gravel / all road. I am looking forward to the next generation where they hopefully fix the issues so I can continue to use it for gravel /all road.

I just revamped my 2019 Canyon ultimate from 11 speed mechanical Ultegra to full force with red crankset (only for the looks) for a total of $2100 USD with installation, and I couldn't be happier. I tried fitting Di2 but my frame wasn't compatible, on the other hand AXS was so easy, the less cables to better for me. My decision was based on frame compatibility, looks and price. Full shimano Di2 was more expensive, I wasn't able to get stock and shipping for available parts took a couple of weeks. I'm a persistent and strong rider and I always feel I have more gear and equipment than fitness level haha so I don't mind weight or small details because I know once I'm pedaling I wont notice it. If you are taking the decision, go for the looks you want on your bike, price and overall easiness of experience, no one will notice (not even you) your hoods, brakes or RD, Crankset for me is the most visible so mix up lower tier groupset with top of the line crankset and you'll have more than you need and a good looking bike.

Another good Vid. I would prefer Shimano here in the Middle East as the service knowledge for sram is not as good as the one for Shimano

Tried Red AXS and couldn't get it to stop dropping chains, though that was before they started sending the alignment tool with the FD. Shimano Dura Ace mechanical on the other hand has been on my bike for 15k miles and zero dropped chains. Not needing to charge anything is nice.

Thanks… i think the breaking by Shimano or Ekar is a lot better as Any Sram groupe … shifting a one by mullet Sram … sti by Grx 800 ( ist deffenitly a Shame that a di2 is Not fully wireless)that would be nice on a Gravel… Shimano di2 105 for a Race bike…. Nice weekend

Absolutely correct......I go Shimano all the way on road while gravel, I do like Sram. Shimano shifts smoother, while I like the physical feel of Sram levers better. Sram feels more "mechanical" and notchy, which I really like the confidence that it gives, but doesn't shift as smooth as Ultegra, though Shimano's shift levers feel "flimsy" when compared to Sram. I'm running Sram Rival One on my gravel bike, while on my two road bikes I have 105 and ultegra. On my mountain bike I'm running Microshift Advent, which when compared to Sram and Shimano leaves little to be desired for smoothness of shifts. I do like the Sram Level brakes however!

Recently my husband and I have use E*Thirteen components on our MTB's. Both SCRAM and Shimano offer quality group sets they are not the only option.

Shimano Deore with HG+ literally shifts better than SRAM AXS. Anyone who has ridden both (see Bikemag, Pinkbike, Vital MTB) agree. People forget that Wireless shifting euphemistically better than cabled shifting. Brakes wise, Code RSCs are arguably the better brake. No wandering bite point issue and modulation > light switch brakes of Shimano. You can get used to either but outright saying "we all know Shimano brakes are better" is just totally wrong.

I have used both but I have sram on my MTB and my crux if you’re going 1x sram wins hands down, especially for gravel due to its flexibility and chain retention, for 2x shimano’s FD are a lot faster/smoother but I like the AXS ecosystem

I’m looking at the new canyon grail cfr gravel bike and can’t decide on the build. One is grx 2x and the other build is with powermeter and sram red explr 1x for $1200 more. The rest of the components are the same! Have you leaned more one way in the last year ? I’m leaning more towards the red now with power meter and putting larger chain ring on if needed.

I'm putting together a new road frameset build at the moment and went with SRAM. I got some really good deals on a few Red AXS parts and got Force for the rest, which I wouldn't have been able to do with Shimano as far as getting deals on 12 speed Dura-Ace. For someone who is doing the building and maintenance of a bike themselves, I'm sure the process for Shimano is fine (except for maybe updating some firmware which was very easy with SRAM) but it was nice just running two brake cables and not having to worry about junction boxes etc, and the pairing process was very easy. Another factor was the possibility of using larger tires and larger cassettes in the future with potential XPLR add-ons is something I will most likely pursue in the future, so the mix and match capabilities have always had me leaning SRAM. At the end of the day, I'm coming from a mechanical 10 speed groupset so my frame of reference isn't exactly typical with the framing of the video.

Chris, kindly don’t forget the dogma f review please

Shimano for me with gravel, but I wish it had SRAM gear range. I prefer the Shimano battery. However, if I had to build something today, unfortunately, there just isn’t much Shimano GRX parts available. SRAM Rival AXS is a great entry level electronic shifting. So yeah, Shimano with SRAM gear range is what I’d love for gravel

I run etap 11 speed on Shimano drivetrain. Everything runs smooth and quiet

Interesting. Having ridden a few ks on ultegra di2 12speed i want to build a new allround bike. The decision is between sram force and 105 di2. I mostly gravitated towards sram to try something new but the ultegra has been very reliable.

I think this time around I am going with SRAM force as I have xo transmission on my mtb. I just think that is very convenient. Plus the tarmac color I want is in SRAM. Admittedly, I think bike color is making my choice in groupo.

Just bought new bike with Ultegra di2 and man its so much smooth then sram i had past few years. Especially front derailleur... Sram needs to refresh red and force

I (was) going to upgrade my gravel bike with rival etap levers and brakes because of the smaller hoods and force Xplr derailleur and force cranks. But now you kind of got me hesitant with the possibility of something launching in 2023… Do you think they will straight up release the Xplr stuff too or wait some time to refresh that because it’s “newest”?

One thing that bugs me about sram is there is very little 3rd party options in terms of cranks/chainrings and cassettes. Youre kinda locked into their ecosystem and when there is a part shortage it’s a pain in the ass. Took me forever to get a 10-36 cassette recently for my rival axs build.

You have pros and cons for each brand/system. But there is one major advantage for shimano for road: front derailleur. For anything else you can measure the pros and cons and you can justify and decision you make, but for front derailleur performance and reliability sram is no match for shimano

I was always a Shimano rider. I loved the shifting and looks of the groupset but lately I've been slowly switching my bikes over to SRAM. With AXS, I just like the simplicity of its function and the wireless build. I didn't like SRAM mechanical, which is why I stuck with Shimano through to Di2, but once eTap came out I slowly started gravitating toward SRAM. I like the shift modes of Di2 and the hood size, but I like the function of SRAM where the buttons are being used equally. Red looks really good and the latest versions of Rival and Force are looking sleeker and edging up to the design of Shimano. I've converted to SRAM and no longer have any bikes with Shimano anymore. Although, if money were no object and I was building a dream build I'd probably build it up with Dura Ace.

I have sram red etap 11sp and no complaints. Chain drop phenomenon is noticeably different depending on lube in my experience. Running one called superdrop, I felt fd shifts were super predictable in their outcome. Currently running a wax based lube, it’s necessitated putting eyes on the chain as it shifts, which I have noticed that if it’s about to drop, (only an issue ever, going up to the big ring) I can stop turning the cranks forward, pedal back slightly, it seats the chain and there’s pas probleme. I’m thinking I’ll go back to the superdrop chain lube again after next bike clean for the reason outlined above, but also the cleanliness level visually is about the same, cleaning / re-lubing is much easier and applications of lube are much easier and quicker, squirting one or two drops onto a clean cloth and running the chain through the cloth and you’re up. Next time, I’m not sure, but there’s been leaking of a new shifter from sram so might hold out as they’re due an update.

Wow! Spot on with my thoughts too. Shimano for road, SRAM for 1x and SRAM for MTB (except for the brakes, Shimano much better).

Though the cassette of DA and Ultegra looks similar to many people, that is possibly the most value upgrade between the 2 to shave off perhaps 60 grams.

Hmmm, spot on recommendations for Road, especially the value play: Ultegra Di2 12spd, MTB: SRAM X01 AXS w/ Shimano XTR brakes. However, have to say looking a bit broader at gravel and how that category in particular seems to cover such a wide set of use cases and terrains that may be unique to the rider in their specific geographic location. Some real world considerations should be driven first by the rider's intent for use. Will they focus more on off-grid bike packing? Will they be focused more on local riding and adventures? Will they be leaning into the pointy end of gravel races? Do they live where there is more mountainous riding and/or racing (looking at you Colorado!)? All of the above should be taken into consideration. That all said, as a local rider to the Boulder, CO scene, who really enjoys the big days in the foothills and mountains (7k-10k feet elevation), I have to say from experience, having a low enough gear, as well as a high enough gear is super important. SRAM has historically bungled this one over several iterations of their groups from RED, FORCE, and RIVAL. A 22 to 25 inch low gear is ideal, with a 110-120 inch high gear making for good climbing and descending over a variety of steep mountainous terrain and conditions, (think up 25%+ pitches, loose, dry, rocky, wet, muddy, snowy, etc). From my experience riding pretty much everything out there over the past 8 years riding gravel, the best set up with SRAM is either a Mullet set-up with 10x50 or 10x52 rear cassette and a 42-46t 1x chainring (great choice for adventure or bike pack riding, just remember to bring spare battery)... or the FORCE AXS 2x set up with 10x36 cassette for racing. Campagnolo does a really great job with Ekar and their 1x gearing. Although their shifting ergonomics may not be to everyone's liking, the Ekar group is by far one of the best for braking performance and overall quality and craftsmanship dollar for dollar. And let's not forget Shimano, they have done a pretty good job with their available gear range on the GRX line too, especially their 2x.... can't wait to see a 12spd Di2 GRX version soon! Just some thoughts to consider, again, gravel riding for many across the world can mean different things to different people. *Final note, as an old school rider, it's less important to focus on gear range (500%, 520%, blah, blah, blah marketing speak) and more important to look at actual gear inches for both high and low and the steps of gears in between. www.bikecalc.com/gear_inches

As far as MTB brakes go Ive used Magura and sram and shimano and I like the level ultimates from sram the best, 8k miles and I’ve yet to fully bleed them, and great modulation and power.

Always been a Shimano guy but recently I started to think about Sram more and more. I have a road bike in 1x configuration and I like to experiment with it and wireless shifter is a big plus for me. With di2 at the end you have more cable than a mechanical groupset. Moreover Shimano is so slow introducing new technologies... for example, they came out with 12 speed 2 or 3 years after Sram, the new grx groupset is going to arrive maybe end of 2023, they are simply too conservative introducing new stuff imho

MTB Sram, Gravel SRAM. Road - well, harder - maybe Shimano.

I love Shimano but after my seat post battery failed because it got 'damp', then my DuraAce crank failed and the corrosion of my well looked after calipers it's a love that is difficult to maintain!

I do like sram brake feel more. But for shifting i prefer shimano more. Comparing guide and zee for mtb counterparts. 105 and rival for road/gravel

I replaced my Sram x9 10 speed a few years back. It dropped chain occasionally despite clutch, sawed through derailleur cables because of derailleur design, double shifted unintentionally often, and chains always broke. The Deore groupset I replaced it with has none of these problems. 1 dropped chain in 2 years. And chain itself still not stretched in 2 years. Typical of my Shimano- Sram experience. I would always choose Shimano given a choice.

everyone has different preferences. I‘ve been driven everything, Campa, Shimano and Sram and never thought I would have ever had to drive anything other than Campa, after this Shimano - very good and functional, now Sram - for me clearly the best and most modern

My friend crashed his '19 Crux with Di2 Ultegra and broke a shifter. The shifter is no longer available from Shimano, so he had to search for a used one compatible with his groupset. Of course he couldn't find the exact one he had broken, people are stockpiling them. He now has a 1st Gen right Di2 Shifter and a 2nd Gen Di2 shifter. He loaned me the bike for awhile and while it's "fine", the difference in brake lever stroke between your two hands would drive me crazy long term. Sram might be changing things regularly, but they keep an eye towards backwards compatibility. If he had a Sram set up, the only annoyance he would have is a different color shifter.

I’m in a bad situation. I’ve been using Shimano road for 25 years so my brain is locked into that particular reflex. Now when I get on another system I have to think about shifting which makes me so much slower. So I have to use Shimano forever. Luckily I’m happy with their stuff. But from my brief experiences with the other systems they all work very well. The big 3 all make great stuff now, so there are no losers.

I pref shimano for Value and practicality.

I would add that for the mayority of amateurs riders Shimano will be the best also for marketing purposes, cuz they see it in the pro peloton! This is in my opinion a strong aspect, because a lot of riders don't care about certain specs, but they will go for Shimano only because it's the best groupset, also if it is more expensive.

I would build it with campagnolo

On a MTB, Shimano cassette/chain/chainring and SRAM AXS mech/shifter. SRAMano? ShimRAM? Who knows, but you get both the better shifting and gear spacing of Shimano (HG+ is no joke) and the wireless simplicity of SRAM. I would also disagree with the assessment of the brakes, but those are personal preferences. On extended DH runs all my Shimano brakes have had the issue with a moving bite point which drives me nuts. SRAM Code/G2 seem more consistent even if they need more frequent bleeds.

As a bike mechanic this is how it’s seen in the biz, sram have good ideas but poor execution, their engineering is often shoddy and poorly executed. Srams bonuses are that they are wireless and they look sexy. Shim is the opposite, their stuff is relatively boring and not crazy ideas but most shim stuff is completely bulletproof. The only thing SRAM does bette is chains, they are just better

For this time of the year, I would rather wait for new Sram or just use shimano groupset

Me with Campagnolo on my Tarmac SL6: 🍿👀

How did you have a 10-30 cassette on the shimano road bike, I didn’t think they made one 2:05

Shimano for all the bikes. Owned both but Shimano is better in any way. Cheaper replacement components, smoother en faster shifting, better brakes, lighter, longer battery life on a full charge etc etc.

can you do a zwift vs trainer road

Road bike..Shimano 11 speed - Di2 .. no debate!!! Gravel - SRAM AXS 10-52 on a 40T 1x..no debate .... but battery life is short of what is required...

Shimano requires a cable for firmware updates on the new semi wireless 12 speed and the cable costs $200. Shimano requires that you plug in the bike instead of just popping out the battery. On the other hand, the micro adjustment is pretty slick on Shimano and it's nice to have more room between the frame and the bottom of the cassette. Both are great but I lean SRAM.

Dude! You say SRAM isn’t as reliable as Shimano and then don’t give any examples as to how SRAM was less reliable. You say you had a battery issue then don’t explain what the issue was. SMH

Sram was the easier group set to build a bike with. 😂The new Shimano doesn’t seems to bad with the reduction of Di2 cables, junction box, etc.

As a pro wannabe I would say Shimano Claris all day errday

what do you think of Sram Transmission compared to GRX?

Is it just me or does the front derailleur shift so much more smoothly on Sram than Shimano especially in syncro?

Sram of Shimano? Henry caville, "Microshift!" But in all seriousness, i have no interest in wireless shifting, so whatever is the most feature packed for the price is what I use. I've got deore 12 speed on a mountain bike and i love it. Microshift on a gravel bike. Tried to spec a sram cyclocross groupset and Christ they are expensive... Tough to justify e tap or access when Microshift crushes everyone for price and compatibility

Tb honest, I like SRAmano 😉 using Shimano cassettes, chain, etc - but SRAM AXS (Red/Force/Rival mix) for levers, brakes, derailleurs - really like it and it’s very competitive by price. Actually did it because of availability, but like it, works well

SRAM should get rid of 10t cog on their cassettes and use the cassette and chainring size standards used Shimano and Campagnolo. I'd like to try out SRAM but their gearing options is confusing to me. Although they are supposed to be same gear ratios, but with different teeth sizes.

And Shimano wins on mountain bikes too simply by default as the only manufacturer that offers modern 2x options to those of us wanting 2x.

I have Sram Red and can say what annoys me about it is the chain drop I experience maybe once a month or every 2 months. Yeah it's not a lot but still annoying. The other thing that annoys me is the 10 cog that I NEVER USE. Sram should remove it so there can be an extra cog in the middle of the cassette. A new cassette would be welcomed. The Pros can have the 10 cog. I'm just a weekend cafe group rider.

Road - shimano Mtn Bike - Sram Gravel - Coin flip

I have Sram red axs and my god the front D is a nightmare. It constantly drops the chain and the crankset is now chewed up from a constant dropped chain. The bakes also are noisy as F*#K

Didn't see you talk about warranty since Shimano is way better in that departement i broke my derailler clutch i got a free replacement from Shimano (full new derailler with updated warranty

The sign on your thumbnail is wrong

In your opinion 🤔

SCAM is low quality junk. Nothing but job security. As a pro shop mechanic, I've (many mechanics) been warrantying and 'voluntary recalling' their brakes for over 7 years now. There's a machining/QC issue ongoing in their brake levers. It effects mostly Guides, but also Levels and Code brakes. Sram has claimed to have solved this problem several years ago, but we see newer serial numbered brakes with the same issue. My company, a large chain of shops has recalled thousands of Sram brakes and replaced many, many more with other brands. I'm a retired machinist and mechanical inspector. NOBODY is fooling me! What's more, Sram brakes have suffered from sticky pistons and rubbing since they were called Avid. Their design is little changed in all that time. Their piston seal material becomes stiff and within a relatively short amount of time, the brakes begin to rub. You can see their pistons not moving evenly. This is the norm for SCAM, not the exception. Over time and left unmaintained, on a hot day, Sram brakes can completely lock up. This then requires the rider to carry their bike wherever as the wheels wont roll! Ive seen this on numerous occasions. Some pissed off customers, all sweaty, having walked down a big mountain to get to our shop. The other DOT fluid brakes (Hayes, Hope, Formula) don't suffer all these issues and are problem free much longer. Mineral oil based brakes are easier to service and bleed, last far longer and offer similar levels of brake power to DOT brakes. If SCAM can't produce decent quality brakes, something as important as brakes, why would anyone believe they make anything else well?

I've been a Shimano fanboy for over 30 years. Shimano doesn't win on gravel. Sorry. I'm really hoping that Shimano updates their GRX to better compete with SRAM.

sram all day

Shimano by sram user

outside of USA sram is non existent.

Shimano because GRX812 rear derailleur can handle a 48t cassette (50t with a goatlink). Also its easier and cheaper to hack a mullet setup with a tanpan (which only works on Shimano). Equivalent options for SRAM owners are either more expensive or more difficult to find.

I think I’m a shimano guy now, too.

Shimano BS, cant get stock and they wont ship and local distributors have dismal options and stock . Couldnt be bothered with shimano anymore. The best parts are the ones you can get! (Former Shimano fanboy)