I played original Tainted Grail (and all expansions) with my group (4 people). And we actually loved it, even with all that grind you mentioned (btw I don't thnik there was so much grind, and 2 out of 4 campaigns didn't really have problem with relighting mehnirs). All new features are good incremental improvement though, so I've already backed new one.

I’ve always wanted to play the original, but could never find it at a reasonable price. Once I heard about KoR, I decided to wait for the campaign to back. Happy to hear it sounds like a 2.0 version of the original. Very excited for this one. Thanks for the video!

I play extremely loosely (liberal story mode) and I enjoy Tainted Grail a lot. Game time prevents me from playing more often but I want to 😅

Thank you! Glad you found it useful.

Thanks for the kind words, glad you liked the video!

It’s still an interesting and fun combat system but it’s very different than Gloomhaven or Oathsworn in my opinion. So it really comes down to personal preference. Glad I could help out though!

Yeah there are a few different ways they could have been altered or adjusted in the original to make them feel like punishing to those wanting to explore and experience the world. It also just comes down to preference too. I'm naturally someone who dislikes feeling punished for exploring. It's the same issue I had with The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, the timer would always give me anxiety because in those types of games, I like to take my time and explore slowly.

Thanks Jonathan, glad you enjoyed it!

No, still menhirs. This is some of the info from update 4 of the campaign detailing the changes l: A clearer selection of difficulties during the campaign setup. Standard game mode is slightly less focused on survival and resource grind (for example, we modified the default Food, Rest and Exhaustion rules and introduced a new Secret card that facilitates re-lighting Menhirs). The Story mode is even more forgiving. There's now a fast travel option in the Fall of Avalon campaign that unlocks as you progress through the game (similar to the existing options in Age of Legends and Last Knight campaigns).

Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it!

Yeah the minis are going to come down to personal preference and what miniatures add to your experience and enjoyment. It's hard to really make a recommendation in that area, but overall, this is an improved experience compared to original Tainted Grail, there's no question.

@@AllYouCanBoard Good to hear. I will def back this campaign. Starting a new job in November so that gives me time to save up as well before the PM opens.

I think you can only answer that question for yourself, it really depends on how much you value miniatures to get engrossed in the experience. I'm playing Oathsworn right now with standees and no miniatures and am having a great time and it doesn't feel like I'm playing a watered down version of the game. And I saved a lot of money. But for some, it's a great addition and if you paint miniatures and enjoy that process, it's almost a no brainer.

The Minis are great to look at but the actual time they are on the board is so low that I would not recommend them getting for the gameplay

Yeah it's definitely a commitment, both in time and price. There's nothing wrong with waiting for retail and further thoughts and reviews!

I can't comment because I haven't tried them, but me personally, I wouldn't be anxious or excited to return to the original at this point. Especially with an improved version coming out in Kings of Ruin. But that's me!

Suggestion: Play it with rules as written, but look through the upgrades. There are a number that *significantly* lower how hard lighting menhirs is, if you have two of those, you typically won't really have to worry about it much anymore. Or just play with the "easier" rule where you pay as written, but as if you had a player less. That's an official "easier" mode"

Don't play as written. Make exploring cost zero. Also if playing two players if both players are at a shrine the resource to light a menhir only cost as if it were one player

I think if you're looking for things to house rule to make it enjoyable, you might just need to try some trial and error and see what makes you happy. What brings you joy. Having exploration cost 0 or having menhirs never go out could work, but it's hard to say what impact these things will have on the balance of the game if you still want it to be a challenge or competitive. That being said, there are lots of discussions about this on the BGG forums and such and you might have some luck there finding things that have worked for others! If it makes you happy, that's what counts!

The story mode variant at the end of the rule book completely fixes the grind for us. That is, treating any action that depends on number of players as if one less person was playing. So we are 2 players, but following all directions and resource requirements as if we were just 1 player. It means menhirs cost less to light and stay lit slightly longer relative to what we're doing.

These two games aren't even in the same genre lol

If BGG ratings are anything to go by, Oathsworn is rated 9.3 (although I thought it was 9.6 a week or two ago), while the original Tainted Grail is rated 8.2. That said, I expect the price of Oathsworn (the reprint) to be significantly higher than Tainted Grail (something like $250 for the core pledge with minis and $150 for the standee version vs $99 for TG). Personally, I'll probably be backing Oathsworn and am on the fence with TG (I already own the original and only considered it a good but not great game).

I actually would consider them in the same genre. Both involve storytelling, an evolving narrative, a campaign, boss fights and combat and gathering with a group of friends multiple times to over the course of months to finish.

Hey Tony, I'll need more time with Oathsworn and to experience more of Kings of Ruin to give you an answer! If you want me to go solely off first impressions, right now I'm more impressed with Oathsworn, but I'm really basing this off of one session with it and only 2 chapters of Kings of Ruin. Thanks for the comment! :)

@@AllYouCanBoard I understand. I appreciate your honesty and wanting to more experience before giving a Final Answer. I really enjoy games with a good story. That helps keep the experience fresh for me and makes it more than just game mechanics. Given that, I'm always interested in games with a good story AND good game play. For me Oathsworn may be the Best of Class, so to speak. Therefore, Oathsworn serves as a good measuring stick for me. If another game is close it becomes something I would probably enjoy. I hope that 'logic' made sense.

Handsome with a capital H, wow. They must be something special.

You're very welcome!

I think that while Tainted Grail has a stronger focus on narrative, they are absolutely still in the same genre. They just place their focus on different areas, but they are both campaign and legacy games with combat and narrative that you'll play over the course of months with the same group of friends. I think the same type of game groups would consider purchasing and playing all 3 of the games you mentioned.

I agree that Gloomhaven has almost no story, but that is by design. It is like comparing a Final Fantasy game to Final Fantasy Tactics. Tactics had almost no story, but the game was about tactical combat, and it did that really well. Same with Advance Wars. Gloomhaven would be a much worse game if there was exploration and narrative emphasis. It has just enough to get you to the next tactical scenario, perhaps a bit too much. Jaws of the Lion sort of blew GH out of the water for me because you do almost nothing between missions. You can flip the page and try a new scenario. I totally understand if you don't like Gloomhaven because you prefer a game with a narrative focus. But it does what it does really well, and when it came out, there was nothing like it out there. I agree that a game that sucks you into the story, making the hours pass like nothing as you play, is the best. It takes real talent to write compelling narrative like that. But if Gloomhaven had that sort of narrative, no one would play it. People who want the tactics would be screaming about the story getting in the way, and people who want the story would be turned off by the combat taking too long.

@@lucduchien "Tactics had almost no story"? What? It's the only Final Fantasy with a good story.

@@fy8798 So I looked into your claim, and it turns out other people cared about the story more than I did. My mistake. When I played it 25 years ago, I just thought of the story as going on in the background. I should play it again. Still, Final Fantasy VI has the best story IMO. I still think that Gloomhaven would have been less popular if it required more exploration and narrative to get through. It might even be a better game, but less people would play it.

It's not for everyone! Nothing wrong with that.

@@AllYouCanBoard Agree