Is the Diezel Hagen a VH4 mk II? - Diezel Hagen vs Diezel VH4 Amp Shootout -
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Жыл бұрынIs the Diezel Hagen a VH4 mk II? Let's find out and shoot the amps out with each other channel for channel.
Signal chain:
I'm using a Gibson SG Raw Power tuned to drop C# with a Seymour Duncan Black Winter pickup in the bridge and a Seymour Duncan Peraly Gates in the neck (used only for cleans here).
The guitar is running into a Deasdweald Duality DX which when on is running in TS style mode with gain at 0 and the EQ and Volume at around 1 o'clock. From there the signal goes into an Egnater SS4 Amp Switcher and into the amps. the active amp is routed back into the SS and from there into a Two Notes Torpedo Live with a GGD Cali IR loaded.
Timestamps:
00:05 Introduction
00:19 Setup
00:43 VH4 Channel 1 + Bright - Gain Low
00:57 Hagen Channel 1 - Gain Low
01:10 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 1 - Gain Low
01:32 VH4 Channel 1 + Bright - Gain High
01:50 Hagen Channel 1 - Gain High
02:07 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 1 - Gain High
02:23 VH4 Channel 2 + Bright - Gain Low
02:41 Hagen Channel 2 - Gain Low
02:58 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 2- Gain Low
03:21 VH4 Channel 2 + Bright - Gain High
03:40 Hagen Channel 2 - Gain High
02:07 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 2 - Gain High
04:18 VH4 Channel 2 + Bright - Gain High + Boost
04:30 Hagen Channel 2 - Gain High + Boost
04:43 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 2 - Gain High + Boost
05:09 VH4 Channel 3 - Gain Low
05:40 Hagen Channel 3 - Gain Low
06:09 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 3 - Gain Low
06:39 VH4 Channel 3 - Gain High
07:03 Hagen Channel 3 - Gain High
07:27 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 3 - Gain High
08:05 VH4 Channel 3 - Gain High + Boost
08:17 Hagen Channel 3 - Gain High + Boost
08:29 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 3 - Gain High + Boost
09:21 VH4 Channel 4
09:45 Hagen Channel 4
10:09 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 4
10:33 VH4 Channel 4 + Boost
10:58 Hagen Channel 4 + Boost
11:22 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 4 + Boost
11:47 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 4 (VH4) / Channel 3 (Hagen) + Boost
12:12 More Gain on Channel 4
12:55 VH4 Channel 4 + More Gain
13:07 Hagen Channel 4 + More Gain
13:17 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 4 + More Gain
13:31 VH4 Channel 4 + More Gain & Boost
13:48 Hagen Channel 4 + More Gain & Boost
14:04 Toggling VH4/Hagen Channel 4 + More Gain & Boost
14:40 Final Thoughts
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Which one of these should I line up against the Herbert first?
@zanthraxus Жыл бұрын
The Hagen has my vote here - simply for the fact that Hagen's Ch4 vs. Herbert'S Ch3 might accidentally summon something.
@ffxiiangel Жыл бұрын
I’m really surprised how much more ears enjoyed the Hagen in this shootout.
@g.koch. Жыл бұрын
Felt the same, but will check the video in a few days again 😃
@fluxxliveband Жыл бұрын
Great video! You can really hear the difference in the texture of the saturation between these two Titans! Way cool!
@jordansage9655 Жыл бұрын
Possibly the best amp comparison on youtube! You did everything so well in fact, it’s almost better than demoing in person!! Thank you 🙏
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
That's really high praise! Thank you! I appreciate it. I'm happy you got something out of the video
@Spidouz Жыл бұрын
When Peter Diezel said he didn’t wanted to make a VH4 mk2, he meant he didn’t wanted to “replace” the VH4 by a VH4 mk2. He wanted to keep the VH4, therefore he put all the changes he wanted to do on the VH4 and created the Hagen. So the Hagen is some sort of VH4 mk2 without replacing the VH4 that is still available to this day. I hope it helps to clarify..
@ylemp Жыл бұрын
The clean channel on the Hagen blew my mind. The VH4 seems a little darker in the high gain channels but they both have this incredible roar.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
You're right on the money with your observations! The Hagens clean channel is so alive and sparkly
@DanSchultz84 11 ай бұрын
These both sound so sick!
@zanthraxus Жыл бұрын
Damn - they both sound so awesome in their own right and I'd love to hear them in the room! Except for channel 1 where the Hagen stands out to me, I couldn't really pick one either though if in doubt I'd probably go for the Hagen. What I found most interesting is that you said the VH4 was more dynamic - especially on Ch1 I would have guessed it was the other way around. @MkII or not - I think it's only a question if you actually want to call it that or not. To me the Hagen takes it further (see Ch4) so that it would be justified to not call it a MkII and leave dedicated room for the VH4 (then again the DNA is absolutely undeniable...). Thanks for the awesome shootout - can't wait for the Herbert to make another appearance in this Diezel shootout series! Cheers!
@pgbangarang8394 Жыл бұрын
Fantastic comparison video. Very comprehensive work. I agree in person they're very similar but subtlety different, enough to be not 'officially' a VH4 MkII, but 'effectively' so to me. An improved & sweeter Ch1, the Hagen has a touch more sensitivity on the dials, ie: smaller moves on the Hagen dials give a broader range of changes than on the VH4, a little more bass available on the Hagen overall and the more obvious functionality differences wrt loops and Masters etc.
@soundstorm9508 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this demo, this is the one I’ve been waiting for. I just got a new VH4 last week and I absolutely love it, but I was curious about the Hagen as well. It seems that they’re very similar with some inherent EQ tweaks. I think with some adjustments they can sound even closer to each other.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
My pleasure. Yes, I think you could get them to sound a bit closer if you wanted to too
@barryfischer265 Жыл бұрын
The clean channel of the Hagen is warmer and more pleasing to my ears. Although the can be diled in to sound quite similar the character of VH4 channel 3 and 4 are head and shoulders above those of the Hagen. Had both, still own a VH4..
@Knight-brolaire Жыл бұрын
vh4 seems to have a much more open tone with less high end fizz. I vastly prefer it in this context
@JasonsDigitalStuff Жыл бұрын
That's interesting, because to me the Hagen sounds far clearer and less congested. The VH-4 sounds "muffled" and congested. To each their own for sure!
@Shmalentine 8 ай бұрын
Thank you for making this video (and saving me from buying a Hagen once again). I by far prefer the VH4 - for everything from clean to high gain. It has a denser tone and - to me - sounds a lot more refined than the Hagen. I owned a Hagen a while back and sold it, as I found myself returning to my VH4 over and over. Now (years later) I stumbled upon a decent deal on a Hagen and was seriously considering giving it another try. This video has reminded me what I disliked about it and why I sold it. Thank you! Cheers! 🤘
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for dropping a comment. That's exactly why I started making videos
@renebottinger4658 Жыл бұрын
Another great video Dude, just pure, raw and honest. 👍🏻 Imagine using the compensated output of a Diezel Amp, that’s how Hagens upper mid and high frequency range sounds like. 😂 I prefer Hagens Clean channel, but VH4s distortion tone.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Thank you, René
@FEAROWNAGE 4 ай бұрын
The Hagen's cleans are AMAZING
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 4 ай бұрын
It's a great clean channel for sure
@greevideo 8 ай бұрын
Und gleich nochmal wooow!! :) Vielen Dank für die super Darstellung der ganzen Nuancen speziell all der Diezel-Mühlen (auch) in d anderen Videos. (BTW falls du einen Vergleich mit nem sehr alten blauen VH4 (S#
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 8 ай бұрын
Ooooh! Danke für die netten Worte und das Angebot! Da würde ich sicher gerne mal darauf zurückkommen
@user-ye5fo9yt7r Ай бұрын
I noticed very subtle differences but overall the Hagen sounds like the VH4 with the edges rounded off…if you’re a player you’ll know exactly what I mean, LOL! Great comparison video…no bs just the sound of 2 great amps
@firststep7750 Жыл бұрын
This test shocked me. Peter Stafer said - about the Hagen - that it's Diezel's "more British voiced amp". In this test, I hear the opposite. The VH4 has a more upper mid frequency focus compared to the Hagen. However, when the amps are BOOSTED this is reversed i.e. the Hagen sounds like its mid frequencies are focused higher in the spectrum. Unless my ears deceive me the Hagen has a modern sound by comparison. However I read below that the VH4 has been updated over the years making it brighter. Thus I'll assume your VH4 has those updates. Thanks for the revealing review.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
My pleasure! To me, the Hagen is absolutely more modern sounding with a higher mid emphasis
@asnark7115 11 ай бұрын
You noticed the boost "switch", too? I also thought the unboosted VH had more in the high mids. Except for Channel 3!, Hahahahaaa.. @TheOtherJohnBrowne said under another comment/? that the VH in this vid is from the '00s; the Hagen is from '19 or '20.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 11 ай бұрын
It's a 2007 model
@monstruonegro05 Жыл бұрын
Another great video! Hagen sounds better to me (not for much)
@mesaseany Жыл бұрын
Great comparison! So the settings on screen are what is being played? Gonna tweak my VH4 as I fell out of love with it since I got my VHX.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! Yes, the amps are filmed during the playthrough. So what you see is what you hear. Man, I'd love to try a VHX. Is it as good as everyone is saying?
@mesaseany Жыл бұрын
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Yeah the VHX is insane. Sounds IMO exactly like my stock KT77 VH4 from 2020 but with a much much better clean channel and like 30 voicings. Also the FX are top tier... no more pedals for me, just a Ground Control Pro for all the presets. I'd love to see a review from you as there are so few videos covering it.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
@@mesaseany I'll have to find out a way to get my hands on one. Maybe sell a bunch of gear once I've made videos about them!
@franz82able Жыл бұрын
Listening with good headphones I feel that the vh4 has more vocal mids in the distorted channels. The Hagen has a raw sound in comparison, brighter for sure. 2 beautiful amps btw.
@Lexcoaster Жыл бұрын
Great comparison! I would love to know how it sounds if you blend the two...
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Now there's an idea...
@RDamps Жыл бұрын
So, to me the Hagen sounds like a VH4 that’s caught a cold.
@Burkhimself 5 ай бұрын
I remember playing them side by side about 7 years ago and I preferred the VH4. I feel like the Hagen seemed and little more compressed than the VH4. Obviously both are monsters. 🤘🏼
@FEAROWNAGE 4 ай бұрын
Channel 2 on the Hagen with a boost is heaven.
@judasxchrist 5 ай бұрын
The VH4 has a pretty unique poking "honk honk" low mid thing, that you will always hear in any context - and no high end at all. Not much bass either. Good for standing out live or in a mix, no fun to play. Great live. Hagen sounds much more natural here, nice ringing top end. I didn't liked the one I played once, but thats a long time ago.
@DragonCrestPC Жыл бұрын
Great video! What year is your VH4?
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! The VH4 in this video is from 2007. The Hagen is from 2016.
@seek4truth 10 ай бұрын
Best comparison! Wondering what pickups did you use? Thanks!
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 10 ай бұрын
I used a Seymour Duncan Black Winter in the bridge and a Pearly Gates in the neck postition.
@garyslash7552 Жыл бұрын
Both are great amps in their own right. Owning a 2000 VH4, I would like to say that of course it can be used as a metal amp, which more often than not is done. But it can be a fantastic classic rock amp, too. And so can be the Hagen. Peter Stapfer proves this with his cover band.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Agree 100%
@kingpriapatius5832 8 ай бұрын
James Hetflield records and performs with a VH4.
@bcisn 3 ай бұрын
Btw great playing
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 3 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@danielbelensky5513 Жыл бұрын
Finally some really good video, that make Hagen fair justice. This amp seems to be kind of forgotten in a shadow of mighty VH4 and Herbert. To my surprise I preferred Hagen pretty much everywhere. Vh4 seems to me more raw, Hagen is more refined. Imagine you recorded VH4 then Bob Rock walks in to studio and says, thank you, I'm take it from here. I use to have both VH4 and Herbert (I even made similar video shootout Herb vs VH4), and after a while I decided to let VH4 go because my guitars seem to work better with Herbert. After your video I want to swap one of my two Herberts against Hagen. I totally agree running through the same cab, in mix, Diezels do sound quite similar, however feel is not the same. thanks for great video. Daniel.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Thanks Daniel! I have seen your Herbert vs VH4 video at least ten times when I was thinking about one, so thank you right back! It is very helpful and I agree with you. They may sound very close but they do feel and respond quite differently. The Herbert ist the GOAT to me!
@danielbelensky5513 Жыл бұрын
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne BTW are Herbert and Hagen phase aligned when playing in stereo across all channels?? I mean ch1/ch1, ch2(-/ch2), ch2(+)/ch3, ch3/ch4, if recall correctly VH4 ch2 and Herbert ch2(-) weren't phase aligned. Herbert and Hagen seem to be much more similar, even FX loop plate inside is the same, so I hope gain stages spread same way. Do you know ? OR could you please check it? If I trade Herbert against hagen and they out of phase, I'm screwed: as usually I play both at the same time through two Diezel 412 FL boxes
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Makes sense. The VH4s channel 2 and 3 use the same gain stages. I have no idea. I might be able to check on the weekend
@danielbelensky5513 Жыл бұрын
please if you can.
@dylanhernandez5214 Жыл бұрын
What amp is on top of the Hagen ? Nice vid man 🤘
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Thanks man! The amp behind/over the Hagen is a Peavey 3120
@javiermp81 Жыл бұрын
Love your Diezel shootouts! The winners for me between VH4 and Hagen: Clean: Hagen Crunch: Hagen Mega: VH4 (mostly, depending on riff) Lead: undecided, depending on use case Which brings me to the VH2: it has a better clean channel than the VH4 (based on Paul) and an ever so slightly more modern Ch3 from VH4. An excellent option IMHO.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Thanl you! Yeah man! The VH2 looks like a great package. I have yet to play one.
@javiermp81 6 ай бұрын
Hey John, do you still have your Hagen? How has it held up over time? I’m considering getting one, there is a couple used ones on sale at the moment. Cheers!
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 6 ай бұрын
I still have it and love it. It's really sensitive to pickups. I used to dislike channel 4 with my SG loaded with Seymour Duncan Black Winters. It seemed like it would just fart out on me but channel 4 with my moderate 85/15 pickups in my PRS CE24 is grlorious. It's a great amp. If you like the Diezel sound, I would not sleep on the Hagen
@javiermp81 6 ай бұрын
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne I love the Diezel sound and have been agonizing trying to decide between a used Hagen, a new VH2 or waiting for the VH-Mini 😩
@javiermp81 6 ай бұрын
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Sorry to bother again, but how does it hold up against the D-Moll? Are they very different? Cheers!
@mitchellfrey 5 ай бұрын
It’s a difficult one, on the one hand I like the top end clarity and more scooped nature of the Hagen, but I prefer the smoother gain structure and tighter bottom of the VH4. Solution: stereo them!
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 5 ай бұрын
It's one of those either-or-questions where the only true answer is "yes"
@TimOertel 6 ай бұрын
The Hagen seems to miss out on the low-mid Marshall style mid range that the VH4 seems to have done pretty well. Edit: Way closer to a VHT/Fryette or Soldano
@thesoundpurist 5 ай бұрын
I liked the CH 2,3 of VH4 but I prefer the 1st and 4th on the Hagen. Weird
@david-no 7 ай бұрын
On my phone speakers the VH4 sounded better but listening to it while in my car the Hagen sounds better and much more open.
@seek4truth 8 ай бұрын
Can you PLEASE tell what preamp and poweramp tubes were inside this particular VH4? Thanks
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 8 ай бұрын
In this video, it had JJ KT77s in the power section. I am not 100% sure about the preamp section. I'd have to check. Knowing me, there are probably a TAD 12AX7 in V1 and a Tung-Sol in V2.
@JLP-333 6 ай бұрын
Is the Hagen KT77 or EL34. I used to own a 2007 VH4. I have a 2022 Hagen KT77 now, I prefer it.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 6 ай бұрын
KT77
@ivansandoval777 5 ай бұрын
If.you could buy one diezel amp which one would you buy?
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 5 ай бұрын
That's a tough question. Until a month ago, I would have said Herbert but the VH4 has really been growing on my recently. I have not played a VHX yet but if it delivers on its promises, I'd probably chose a VHX at this point
@ivansandoval777 5 ай бұрын
I have engl mesa boogie marshall peavey bogner soldano but as I see videos I can't like the vh4 at all. Maybe in person is different. Uber ultra caught me in the first 2 seconds on videos. I can't like vh4 after 200 vids
@ivansandoval777 5 ай бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ot12hbCmv9y6kWw.htmlsi=SzgtYYyHmHOuNeSC the bogner makes look vh4 like isnt worth not even 100 USD
@judasxchrist 5 ай бұрын
My advice, check out a VHX If you can. Good cab, done.
@seek4truth 10 ай бұрын
Am I the only one who prefered VH4?
@Breathemusic4202 10 ай бұрын
vh4 won for me.....ill own one in 3 days. Will look nice with my herbert mk 3 on top
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 10 ай бұрын
I see you too are a man of culture! Congrats on your new amp!
@asnark7115 10 ай бұрын
Is the Hagen a 4 channel VH2?
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 10 ай бұрын
Possibly. I'd need to try a VH2 to say which I would love to do
@karolkozak64 11 ай бұрын
I did not like hagen on Ch4 here at all. It sounded almost congested as if there was too much input clipping/gain feeding it. that's really weird that squishy blob.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 11 ай бұрын
Yes! That's exactly how I felt it too. As if the input was just being blasted too hard
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 11 ай бұрын
Good ears, man!
@karolkozak64 11 ай бұрын
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne I actually have this experience with a few other diezel amps, too. Somehow they do not like to be boosted. Perhaps its also why often people recommend vintage type pickups. They are naturally compressed amps so going in with a ton of signal which had been thinned out further simply makes the amp sound less great. Had a chance to test a few guitars with the Vh4 for example. It loved my friends tele with single coils, it loved a gibson and my prs custom but the moment we used an LTD with EMGs we were like NAH. And they are also freakin sensitive to pickup height. :_) love the channel btw and immediately hit subscribe
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 11 ай бұрын
@@karolkozak64 Thank you very much! I appreciate it! Yes, I feel Diezels have sensitive input stages that react strongly to different pickups and that makes them nice and responsive too.
@MrDarkSide111 Жыл бұрын
What year is the VH4?
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
2007
@xSilencex_ Ай бұрын
Hagen es mas oscuro y el vh4 mas brillante me gusta mas Hagen por ir mas acorde a mi c: me gusta oscuridad.
@dominik4614 Жыл бұрын
My VH4 comes to Life with Master at 11 o clock
@TheOtherJohnBrowne Жыл бұрын
Interesting. What do you set the channel volumes to?
@gq_79 11 ай бұрын
I agree, pushing the master it’s another amp
@dominik4614 8 ай бұрын
Open Dynamic Sound: Volumen 12-13 o clock Metal compr : 9-12 o clock
@RubyRoks Жыл бұрын
I feel like the Hagen sounds more modern (which is to say less low mids and more highs on input and in other sections of the circuit), which is a benefit on channels 1 and 2, but is actually a downgrade on 3 and 4. Part of the Diezel charm is how fat their amps sound, and the Hagen just doesn't do it in the same way, leaving a very spitty and shrill sounding amplifier.
@david-no 6 ай бұрын
I didn't like my Hagen with V30s because of that reason. Too spiky with that speaker. Creamback 75s and Weber Silver Wolf speakers fixed that issue.
@bcisn 3 ай бұрын
Hagen takes pedals better. Like the VH4 on its own though. Beefy.
@coolguitar88 4 ай бұрын
vhx is the best
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 4 ай бұрын
I have yet to try one myself
@user-jq4fz6co8b 7 ай бұрын
9:21 and 9:45.... This is the tone that has made me really pass on owning anything Diezel. It's that splatty, puffy thing happening in the low end that makes me wince a little bit. It sounds like one of those low-watt Fender Pawn Shop series amps being cranked. You guys remember those? I couldn't see myself spending over $4,000 on an amp that sounds like that.
@TheOtherJohnBrowne 7 ай бұрын
I hear what you mean. To be fair though, I believe channel 4 was intended as more of a lead channel and I was riffing away on it. Did you dislike the other three channels too?
@user-jq4fz6co8b 7 ай бұрын
@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Oh yeah, I hear it in the 3rd channel too. A bit less, but definitely still there. It's funny because in plugin form, I got along really well with the Diezel stuff, so I often go back to listen to demos of the amps, WANTING to like them and I just cant. I've had experience with a VH4 in real life back in 2018 and it was pretty much what I'm hearing in demos...its like a fuzz.
@JasonsDigitalStuff Жыл бұрын
Hagen sounds better. The VH-4 sounds more congested by comparison.
@tiagocosso4063 5 ай бұрын
VH 4 massivelly better
@xSilencex_ Жыл бұрын
Me gusta mas el Hagen!! Tiene mas definición y equilibrio Lo cual todo lo que toque suena armonico. Tengo el hagen y estoy feliz! Mooer 001 para ser exactos Pero feliz 😢 > 😂🎉
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