So many things to cover here! I believe the timeline logic is airtight. I agree with Michael Waldron. essentially what many of these characters will prove is there is a case for a timeloop paradox. In fact multiple. many subjective realities converging on one. We've known since the first Avengers that the infinity saga is a timeline being manipulated. Our timeline is duelistic it is both the aa red timeline and not, purposely so. There are many characters who are involved with reconstructing our cannon after He Who Remains death. The infinity saga everyone thinks they know is not the sacred timeline. Loki has already proven to have manipulated it by bringing the mind staff at the battle of New York. He brought it from one of the timelines Strange viewed prior to the infinity war. This is a strategic move by Thanos. Thanos, through his staunch obsession to gain the timestone, knows the only way for him to gain the timestone is to ensure all other outcomes lead to the destruction of that reality if Strange refuses. At least in our main Cannon of the infinity saga. the 838 is influenced by the events of the 616 but is the 222nd causal loop from the 616. What Michael Waldron is doing is making his own version of back to the future. I know what Banner said, that logic doesn't work in this scenario. Your present can be within your own linear past and can steer causal events to play out the same way. especially if your a dictator or shadow dictator. The Loki series takes place before our infinity saga. the sacred timeline mirrors our timeline but with one caveat. It has been changed by the revelations of parallel realities. Loki changed the sacred timeline in the first Avengers following after the Loki series. Old man cap in endgame has already helped restore causal events and most likely has been through the secret war. This is why he knows it is Sam who must take the shield. Sam having the title of leader must be important in the events to come. I'm wondering if this is foreshadowing a sacrifice that Sam will make. Loki in the meantime has proven in the Infinity saga to have been influenced by the events of the Loki series. His ability to enchant in the existing cannon is used a few times. Loki may have even already enchanted Selvig prior to the battle of New York, influencing him to work with the tesseract post Thor 1. However the main giveaway begins when Loki triggers Ragnarock by usurping Odin By faking his own death through sacrificing an Asgardian soldier... This soldier may have been Baulder. This information comes from true Norse Mythos. Baulders' death signified the beginning of Ragnarock. In order for Loki to do this, he must maintain control of his subjects mind while simultaneously casting her persona over their body. This is how Loki makes physical doubles. He likely changed places when Thor let him out of prison. Or he was never in the prison to begin with. Fast forward to Ragnarock Loki views Valkeries battle with Hela to mentally disable her. He then punches his real body in the face so that his struggle looks real before he casts his persona over her body. He simultaneously cast her persona over his body and bound her to gain Banner and Thors trust. This is how Loki fools Thanos. Thanos snapped an Asgardians neck, but it was Valkeries. Loki then escapes to Earth with the refugees. And like in Thor the dark world, he is now ruling his people yet again, waiting for the moment in which to make his move. This move I don't yet know. However because he is keeping his identity secret I assume it is because he is hiding from the TVA. this is why I believe we only see him when an apocalyptic event is taking place. This may be the reason for so many conflicts to exist in his story. Similarly, Thanos is playing the same game and mirrors Lokis moves. He gains future knowledge from the timeheist via Nebula. He learns what it's like to lose and gains respect for Tonies conviction through his sacrifice. He and Tony were both "burdened with (future) knowledge." Thanos waited to grab the stones because he knew the timing had to be right to steer causal events. In endgame He fakes his death like Loki knowing it is coming post snap. He atomized the stones to ensure the Avengers would create a timespace GPS to commit the tineheist. ensuring "that the work will always be done." ensuring his past selfs inevitability. The real way to understand how this works is by understanding how entangled qubits work in quantum computing. each qubit a universe/reality/ timeline unto its own that creates more and more qubits. as far as dimensions go like Dormammus dark dimension, I think we need to go back to the big bang and surmise that the timestone was either never created or taken. I imagine there are many dimensions and how their "physics" work is entirely dependent on how their "universe" started. assuming they did start. I'll admit the dimension part is weird. especially when one considers that time doesn't exist in Dormammus. This would mean Dormammu always was and never was. Like he exists in his dimension in phase... That said our timeline also must exist in phase in the infinity saga. it both is and isn't simultaneously. The reason I say this is because as soon as the Avengers took the stones from their PARALLEL past. not their actual past but parallel, they technically should not have been able to return to their relative present. except for the fact they returned the stones. It's possible that Banner taking the time stone from that past created Dormammus dimension. a dimension without time, can't go through entropy. There's so much more I want to cover but I don't want KZfaq to give me the invalid argument message so I'll end it here. the last part on dimensions has my brain turning the pieces. I haven't really put my mind to that part of the MCU yet so I'm sure there are hiccups or kinks to work out in my logic. However ai am certain that Loki, Thanos, Cap and probably Scott will have to rectify Causal events post He Who Remains death to get back to endgame. The ending of quantumania means that Scott has found himself in Kangs future. Cap most likely found himself in an alternate past like Scott found in his relative present. Loki will have to rectify the impact of the council of kangs to stop timeskipping. the changing of the timeline in Loki season 2 is likely why Loki keeps jumping to different points in spacetime. We also have to consider the impact Einstein's relativity plays in these events. Einstein Rosenbridges, black holes etc. The devils anus and Sakaar play a significant role I have not fully unraveled. I'm close, though.

I think anything we take from Scott Lang we have to look at his perspective. He is not a quantum scientist; he only has spoken to them about their theories and how that fits to his experiences.

@@rogerroger5171 Well said...I completely agree!

Yup, I agree, this definitely confirms your earlier theories. Can't believe I didn't remember this important quote from Waldron, but then again, it was buried in the MoM Assembled episode. But yeah, it really confirms what you've been saying all along. Nicely done!

Love that description...that said...the reason I struggle with the idea that timelines and universes are different is that once a branch forms, we get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now completely separate. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths (as you describe in your definition of a timeline), but they are still independently functioning universes it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe. Thoughts?

@@AbitofEverything4U Picture this cosmic pancake stack: 1. Timelines are like the fluffy layers of pancakes, each one representing a different choice or event in the multiverse kitchen. 2. Universes are the whole stack of pancakes, and each pancake layer is a different universe flavor, from chocolate chip to banana-nut. So, in this cosmic kitchen, the pancakes (timelines) make up the whole multiverse stack (universe), and they're so deliciously intertwined, you might say they're pancakily one and the same! 🥞✨

@@QuoteBlinkNow that I like...pancakes are yummy!

Thanks...I really appreciate that! Yeah, I like to do something abit different on the channel, as my mind...well...it honestly works abit differently than most (hopefully in a good way?) lol. But yeah, these vids help me sort out the MCU so I love to make them!

Bummer about school...hope tomorrow is a better day for you!

@@AbitofEverything4U thanks. Every day can't be perfect

That's a great attitude to have!

​@@AbitofEverything4UI just watched the video, was a bit occupied earlier cause I watched Everything Everywhere All At Once with my family. Which is also a very confusing movie that is all over the place. And while this video didn't make that clearer, it sure made me understand more about timelines and realities in the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. As always, great job with the video!

​@@davidk06Yeah, EEAAO is pretty confusing and this video definitely won't help with it, sadly. But I'm glad it helped with the MCU. That's always good to hear!

Thanks...it also helps me alot to lay it all out in an orderly manner. It's complex, but it also seems to be adhering pretty well to the same logic across the different MCU movies/shows.

Sounds like a Thor line. Lol

I love it! Yes, that would be epic!

@@diegoprodriguezWe're helping with the script for Thor 5!

Thanks! Yeah, that extra piece from Waldron really made it click for me. I really do think we need a term for two universes/timelines that are unconnected vs. two universes/timelines that are connected as a result of a branch and thus the two are tethered. That would really help!

Great point...yes, that visual in the opening of episode 6 seems to indicate that the sacred timeline has more than one timeline in it. That said, while it goes perfectly with what Waldron said in his interview, it was not as clear cut when I first watched it. I admit that I didn't know what I was watching until I read the interview and was like "Oh!"...that's what that meant. So it could just be me being slow, but I didn't catch it the first time around. But I agree, I think Waldron felt that he was indicating there is more than one timeline in the sacred timeline via that visual. Excellent observation!

Yeah, I really love that quote about tethered vs. untethered universes and having to be anchored to your own timeline. That made so much sense and really filled in the missing pieces to the puzzle. I think what Waldron created is so fascinating and complex. And I'm really glad he keeps giving us the missing pieces in interviews, as I'd never be able to put it together otherwise.

What about the Doctor Strange episode of What If? It seemed to separate timelines from universes with it's plot about Strange trying to save Christine from a fixed point in time even though the main MCU Christine is still alive.

@@SeanWheeler100 Yes! That'd be from a branched timeline of the MCU. Like the Watcher said, all episodes are derived from the sacred timeline but with some small detail changing, which had big ramifications

@@julianortiz5712 But that episode said Christine had to die for Strange to become Sorcerer Supreme and defeat Dormammu, but she's still alive in Earth-199999 and on Earth-838 and Strange still became Sorcerer Supreme. Not to mention that episode had another timeline WITHIN THAT SAME UNIVERSE! And that one universe collapsed as he saved Christine. Just that one universe, not all of them. What If Doctor Strange Lost His Heart Instead of His Hands did not follow Endgame's time travel rules at all.

@@SeanWheeler100 because Strange was using the Time Stone, rewinding time constantly. He wasn't traveling like in Endgame or Loki, he was altering the timeline itself.

Great to hear that. Can't wait for loki season 2 to drop next week!

Yup, I agree. That said, it really is a case of where Waldron thought he was being clear but he was so close to the subject matter that he didn't realize he wasn't explaining it as well as he thought. But I do give him credit for giving all the interviews and trying to clear things up as much as he could.

Okay, now I want some pancakes. Great analogy!

Agreed...I truly think Waldron thought he was communicating his overall storyline clearly. But I've heard from so many fans (super fans, I would say) that didn't pick up on all of it. And I include myself in there. So I think Waldron's story is fantastic, but that he struggled to explain it. However, I commend him for giving all the interviews where he gives us the extra details needed to understand it all.

@@AbitofEverything4U well another clue in Loki is there are multiple variants of Loki but he who remains separated his universe and isolated it from the other universes In order for there to be variance of the same person the timeline would have to repeat but with something slightly different within this universe otherwise what the hell is the TVA even pruning

Now that's a great point!

Thanks for the positive feedback. Yeah, this helped me a great deal, as I need stuff laid out like that for me to process it all. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts!

Thanks so much! Really appreciate that. Yeah, this one had been bugging me for awhile, so it was fun to put the vid together!

to expand in the way the MCU did it: When they went back in time in endgame, that was then a different timeline (same universe, same dimension) When ant man went into the quantum realm, that's a different dimension. His exit in Endgame was within the same timeline, same universe, but he time travelled forward because in my explaination a different dimension path should allow for time to pass either slower or faster because you are taking a faster or slower route. The Avengers using the different dimension exit from a different point BACK in time opens up the ability to travel through time using the different dimension as the portal to do so. Now loki . this is here things become ambiguous & confusing. Loki gets picked up by the TVA. The TVA exist outside of time so therefore it can't be a different timeline, but possibly a higher dimension where it sees time as a whole (non-linear). It can't be a different universe because based on the neighborhood logic it would effect things only within that neighborhood. Now if you open up that this TVA exist in a dimension where it's a secret network between neighborhoods (aka universes) then that starts to make sense, but they should be watching over the different universes not different timelines. So when Slyvie kills HWR, this breaks open the mulitverse meaning that you can use dimensions to access different timelines (roads) in other universes (neighborhoods). So in NWH when Tobey and Andrew and their rogue gallery enters the MCU's universe then that's simply them using the secret dimension route to enter this neighborhood. In the respect of timelines, it's irrelevant because you can always using dimensions to disappear and appear at different houses across the timeline (road) I hope this helps!

I like your illustrations. But the reason I struggle with the idea that timelines and universes are different is that once a branch forms (i.e. the different paths to your neighborhood), we get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now completely separate going forward. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are still independently functioning universes it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe after the branch has occurred. Thoughts?

@@AbitofEverything4UI absolutely agree. This was how I glossed the semantics of “timeline” and “universe” but the evidence you w adduced, all assembled together, convinced me all the more.

​@@BookofCommonTerror Yeah, it's pretty cool to see it all coming together so nicely!

Thanks so much...really appreciate the positive feedback!

Thanks so much...that means the world to me. Really appreciate your support of the channel!

Thanks for your thoughts on dimensions. I like that description. My biggest question is whether there is one dark dimension for the entire multiverse or a dark dimension in each universe. I have to wonder, because in Dr. Strange, he made a deal with Dormammu. Was that a deal for the entire multiverse or just for the Dormammu in 616? I just wish we had more info to go off of, as I don't think the MCU has given us an answer. Thoughts?

@@AbitofEverything4U I think the realms and dimensions will be inter-dimensional spaces that create a honeycomb effect in the multiverse, but for the most part will be unique to each universe until we get to the higher powers like The Living Tribunal, Eon and so forth. I believe The Mirror Dimension & The Quantum Realm could be a connection to different realities but not all.

@@inthenameofcomicsExcellent...that's what I think as well!

Thanks so much! Yeah, I love thinking about all of this as well. The MCU is so amazing in how it has created such a rich storyline spanning 15 years so far!

Yeah, I think everything is slowly coming together. Really excited to see where the multiverse saga takes us from here!

Yeah, I do wonder if America could have jumped into the sacred timeline. Seems like she might have been able to, based on how Waldron describes her powers. And I agree with your thoughts on the F4. That does explain why HWR might have made sure there were no F4 in the sacred timeline!

My pleasure...and thank you for the positive feedback on the vid!

I agree! Even though the MCU has used timeline and universe interchangeably, I think we really do need a term for the difference between two universes/timelines that are unconnected vs. two universes/timelines that are connected as a result of a branch and thus the two are tethered.

Thanks...really appreciate the positive feedback!

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Really appreciate it!

Thanks so much...really appreciate it!

Agreed...that's such an important piece of information and it really changes how you view incursions, timelines, time travel, etc. Really glad Waldron shared that info, even if it was buried in an Assembled episode for Multiverse of Madness.

Whew...I was afraid you were going to say "every time I upload a video, it makes your brain go dead". Hope it all made sense. It's really interesting stuff. Can't wait for Loki S2 to drop!

Wow...those are amazing questions. 1. On the council of Kangs, it seems like they just invite in anyone that wants to join, as we saw an entire stadium of them hooting and hollering in Quantumania. I suspect some of the Kangs are killed by other Kangs in the process and maybe the Kang Council prunes or kills some themselves. But it's a really interesting question for sure! 2. I do think it would make sense for someone to have only one anchor point...i.e. their timeline/universe of origin. But it would be wild if that changed if you were pulled into a totally unconnected universe from your point of origin. So many cool things to consider. Would be wild if they eventually touched on some of these!

Great feedback. Yeah, I really do wish Marvel had been more deliberate with the usage of the multiverse and universe terms, but I think what you said makes perfect sense. I really do like the idea that you can travel to other timelines that are tethered to yours, but it creates issues if you go to an untethered universe. Before HWR isolated the sacred timeline (i.e. before the multiversal war), everything was tethered together at some point in the timeline, but after he isolated it, we then end up with the universes where the Kang council resides being no longer tethered with the sacred timeline...at least not until HWR died and the sacred timeline exploded into the multiverse once again.

Awesome...great to hear it helped. I know it sure helped me to put it together!

Yup...just pluggin' away! Was really happy to hit the 10k milestone...so now it's back to work in hopes the momentum can continue!

Preach it!

Great feedback! Thanks so much for sharing all of that. I'm on the same page with you in that I think we really do need a term a main timeline/universe, verses the a branch that formed and created a lessor universe/timeline off of the first one. Excellent commentary!

The universe actually does *not* experience two different timelines. There's still only 1 version of events; it was solely Strange's possible lives that had two existing at once. But we see in the episode that the Strange in the library is in the past of the SAME universe that present Strange resides in. That's the same timeline, with only Strange occupying two parts of it at once.

@@pance_9912That's a great way to explain it. Thanks!

@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks! And it case it wasn't clear, I was trying to respond to the original comment - I didn't mean to respond to what you'd already said in reply!

@@pance_9912Yup, that's what I figured. Just wanted to pass on words of encouragement with your great explanation!

I agree...I'm really hopeful that we start getting more info on how the multiverse works...it's been fun to piece it together bit by bit, so now I'm hoping we see it all come together!

That's what I was thinking as well for the longest time. However, I could never find anywhere that explained how or why a branched timeline finally becomes a fully-fledged universe. And then after Loki S2 E2 with the labeling of the branches, I'm all the more convinced that there is only one universe in the sacred timeline...i.e. 616.

Right...I am still hoping that Scott was describing the time heist in an unintentionally misleading fashion and that what they really did is they went back in time in the main 616, created a branch (i.e. an alternate timeline) and then jumped back to their anchor timeline (i.e. the main 616) afterwards. As for Steve, I am really hoping he also went to an alternate timeline for a few reasons. I don't know where he got the shield, if he stayed in the main 616. But I also can't imagine him reliving history and letting all the death and destruction occur when he could prevent it. If he went to an alternate timeline, he could get the shield from there and he could also help that timeline thrive and be successful. I love this video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nqidnZej2Jevon0.html), as it shows how hard it would be for Steve to not want to fix all the issues in the world. Granted, it's made to be humorous, but it still shows how it would be nearly impossible to for him to do and would seemingly go against his character.

I used to think that Steve remaining in 616’s past and remaining incognito was the biggest sacrifice he had to make, given that he is what he is and is always willing to leap into any problem, whatever the scope, to help. This used to make my heart swell the way Zemo’s line, “But there’s never been another Steve Rogers, has there?” does. But over the last two years that does sound more and more implausible to me, as that is just not what Steve is. But! I do wonder now if Red Guardian was telling the truth in Black Widow: what if Cap has been secretly intervening in world affairs between 1949 and 2011?? I think it sounds more plausible to reckon Steve requested a new shield from T’Challa or something like that to pass the mantle on to Sam because I don’t see how he could return to the same moment +20 seconds without Quantum Tunnel tech otherwise. Unless you’re suggesting that a branch with only one difference from its parent universe, that difference being the subject inhabiting the branch, more or less naturally closes itself back upon its parent universe at some point. Which seems a little too on the nose for Steve’s case. It’s beautiful, what happens-it really is the last tearjerker in a movie that continually jerks tears out of your boy-and I could excuse this one time that the chrono-ontology delivers the audience a perfect outcome, but that would be a strange norm to shape the rules of multiverse travel.

​@@BookofCommonTerrorYeah, I do agree that Steve living in the main 616 and thus explaining the Red Guardian line would be cool. I just have trouble making it align with Hulk's point about not altering the past. But I do agree with you that it would be neat if Marvel decides to explain that Steve was able to make it work in the main 616.

@@AbitofEverything4U​​⁠​​⁠Right, right, but what Prof. Hulk might not have reckoned with is an anomalous closed loop, such that Steve Rogers has always been there, meaning: no change to the past. He’s working purely from theory and thinks he and Tony have created time travel when really it’s *already* occurred (both due to the Time Heist and He Who Remains).

Yes, very good point about it being a closed loop, which it very well could be. But then I return to my thoughts that it would be torture for Steve to sit and watch thousands and thousands of people die over the years of his time with Peggy when he could have prevented it. Ig for me, I'd rather think of him living in a new branch where he is able to prevent tragedies like 9/11, rather than sit and watch the horror of the planes crashing into the towers. I wouldn't wish that on Steve, and would rather he be able to call the FAA and have those planes stopped before they take off. Just me though. You could very well be right that it's a closed loop and Steve just let the bad things happen so he could be with Peggy. I mean, he certainly does deserve a happy life, as long as he feels that life is satisfying. But, most of all, I hope Marvel tells us the answer some day. It's so weird we still don't have clear understanding of what happened. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all of this. Love the conversation!

Glad I could help you relax after a long day of work. Wishing you a great evening!

Great feedback...I agree completely with your comments. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

Good feedback. I guess the reason I struggle with the idea that timelines and universes are different is that once a branch forms, we get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now completely separate. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are still independently functioning universes going forward, it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe, after the branch occurs. Thoughts?

@@AbitofEverything4U That’s where the red line comes in. One choice leads to a new timeline/branch. Once there’s enough choices and differences from the original timeline it creates a whole new universe. Or if the change is drastic enough to alter enough events it creates a new universe faster. Take What If for example, you have the First Avenger where Steve takes the serum, beats red skull, and gets frozen to be in the 21st century. In the other timeline there’s 3 changes. Red Skull is searching for “his champion” (it’s been a while since I saw the episode) the Serum Injection was interrupted sooner, and Peggy stayed on the bottom floor. Steve getting shot made Peggy take up the mantle changing the events of… basically everything involving Captain America, changing it to Captain Britain/Carter. Making it a new universe. I.E. Once the branch crosses the red line it creates a new uncontrollable universe, making a new multiverse from that second universe.

I like that alot! That makes sense to me. I still wish they were more careful with the terms, as they used them interchangeably so often that it made my head hurt.

​​@@Brendyn4222I know what you mean. Example, The Flash TV show (2014 version) or even Smallville they have shown alternate timeline and alternate universe are two different things.

​@@giovannigiovanni.7220 Yeah, the Flash TV show did a great job digging into the concepts of alternate timelines and universes!

Thanks so much! Wow, that's so nice of you to say. Really appreciate your support of the channel!

I like your definition of dimensions. That makes alot of sense. And I also like your definitions of universes vs. timelines, as I wish that's what Marvel would use. But instead, they seem to use the words interchangeably. When a branch formed, the Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. So for Marvel, the words seems to be a matter of semantics, as in both cases it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now operating independently after the branching. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are also separately functioning universes going forward, it seems. So ig for Marvel, there isn't a functional difference between a timeline or a universe. But again, I prefer your definition of the two words, myself. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

Oh wow! You are so right about that. Excellent point! I know that my head canon is that there are multiple dark dimensions, as it would seem weird if there was only one dark dimension with access to the entire multiverse. In that case, Dormammu wouldn't even care about being banned from one universe if he could just attack a different one instead. Thanks so much watching the vid and sharing that fantastic feedback. Really appreciate it!

That sounds so painful! I hope you heal quickly...and that you can enjoy some vids along the way!

Amen to that!

Great feedback. Thanks so much for sharing all of that. I think you nailed the key issue. We really do need a term for two universes/timelines that are unconnected vs. two universes/timelines that are connected as a result of a branch and thus the two are tethered. That might be the real distinction that needs new terms. The reason I struggle with the idea that timelines and universes are different concepts is that once a branch forms, we get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now operating independently after the branching. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are also separately functioning universes going forward, it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe, after the branch occurs. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

​@@AbitofEverything4U Hi, I had made a post in reply to this post earlier (but I don't see it anymore...I wonder whether it went through). I will try repeat it😢 (all that effort). I completely agree with you that distinct terms must exist to distinguish between: - (a) "Two universes/timelines that are unconnected" - which gives me the picture image from Loki where HWR spoke of "stacked universes" on top of each other; vis-a-vis (b) "Two universes/timelines that are connected/tethered" - which gives me the picture image of an interwoven rope. I think (a) should just be referred to as a "Universe"; whereas (b) can be referred to as "branch timelines". Then, I think "reality" should be used to describe the experience within a particular "branch timeline"....Just my thoughts.😂😊 Regarding the Watcher's comment about "choices that branch out to become universes", I think he's talking about a very unique event. Let me elaborate: - (a) at 2:50 of your video, there's a post about Waldron explanation of "different universes, different timelines". He says that in one branch timeline, the conversation takes place 5 minutes earlier; in another branch timeline, 5 minutes later; and there are slight fluctuations in sequences of said conversation. (b) When Scott Lang talks about the time heist in Endgame (ie infinity stone grabs), he calls the interwoven branch timelines (which bind the rope) "alternate timelines" in which infinity stones were identified. The Avengers "jumped into alternate timelines" based on their knowledge of the same sequential events that would've also occurred in those branch timelines. When speaking to the Ancient One, Bruce called it a "timeline" (as I'm using it here). (c) When Loki took the space stone & disappeared from the Avengers in 2012, he caused a branch timeline similar to what the Ancient One drew when talking to Bruce. It was pruned out by the TVA in episode 1 of the Loki series (Season 1) on time before it "crossed the threshold" - because this branch did not follow "the proper flow of time" (as Mobius explained to Loki). (d) Had this branch timeline crossed the threshold (left unpruned by the TVA), it may have formed a separate universe distinct from the original MCU timeline ["Sacred Timeline]. I think it's mainly the effect of the infinity stones that cause the branch timelines. The only other instance where a branch timeline is formed (without the use/influence of an infinity stone) is when a Nexus Being emerges. The emergence of the Scarlet Witch in WandaVision resulted in the unraveling of the Sacred Timeline, causing HWR to genuinely marvel & say "we have just crossed the threshold".

Excellent comments! I'm sorry your first attempt didn't make it through...you are right, I didn't see it. So I appreciate you took the time to re-enter your ideas. I thought all of it was very insightful. It's fascinating to me how many ways there are to view the multiverse, branches, timelines, etc and I think your logic is very compelling. I enjoyed reading it all and may come back to it again as it was alot to process at once. Can't thank you enough for engaging with me in this conversation and brainstorming exercise. I learn something every time someone responds and especially when it is as well thought out as your commentary. Thanks again. Truly appreciate it!

@AbitofEverything4U I am truly humbled by the compliments and I could not have done this without your excellent efforts and dedication in churning out insightful videos on your platform. Your videos have helped the casual & ordinary MCU movie-goer to better understand the multiversal saga so far (I concede that I'm more than casual 😀 when it comes to the MCU) And it takes great skill in articulation to convey difficult concepts to simple minds - and your channel is excellent in doing that. Thank you 🙏👊 And it's because of this work & effort that we're getting insightful and poignant contributions in the chats. I have gained more from the chats than I've ever gained from channels like New Rockstars; Screen Crush & others who do breakdowns regularly. I have never engaged in KZfaq chats prior to this experience - it's a first for me. Keep up this good work.

I'm so happy to hear you feel that way about the channel. That's exactly what I was hoping for when I started it. I love that this is a way for fellow MCU fans to discuss ideas and theories. Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and being part of the community!

Yes, it was indeed our discussion that sparked this. I love the quote from MoM's Assembled episode. So enlightening. And I agree, I'll definitely do an update to this as Loki S2 progresses. Can't wait for that to arrive!

Yeah, the misuse of the terms is very surprising to me, tbh. I know if I was running the MCU, one of the first things I would do is create a dictionary of terms so people know what each word means and how to using it. Oh well, ig in the grand scheme of things the overall story is what matters, and I am really enjoying the multiverse saga. But these smaller details can be frustrating when they aren't handled correctly. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

bro what??? none of your comment makes sense lol 1. no.. each universe is its own timeline: the conqueror showed the branches of two timelines colliding, stating that those are incursions. How would timelines/branch timelines physically collide if they arent their own universe 2. in the new branch that a supposed variant of chavez would be created, that branch could just.. not create one. she doesnt HAVE to exist there meaning theres no issues with assuming she just never existed in the branch 3. who said the 2 original spiderman universes were branches? you know theres more than one timeline in the multiverse right? Ms minutes literally said “countless UNIQUE timelines”…

Good questions...regarding America, I don't think she can go to another universe where there is a variant of her as she is the only one. And if she is in a universe when a branch occurs (due to a key decision point diverging), my guess is that she isn't copied into the new universe. They have never explained what would happen, but that's my guess. So, for instance, if America had been in the room when Loki grabbed the tesseract in Endgame and created yet another branch, then America would not be copied into that new universe where Loki went. As for the Peter Parker variants (or for that matter the Loki variants), I think it's due to the branch occurring far enough back in time that the universes have diverged significantly after the branch occurred and thus you get different looking Peters and very different looking Loki's. Hope that helps. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

@@echo_z319 Good answers. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your feedback!

@@AbitofEverything4U Some pretty good explanations, the America one is quite confusing but that's marvels fault honestly, and I agree about the three Peters. I think with the Lokis its more simple than that, odin probably just adopted different characters in those universes, including an alligator apparently

@@echo_z319 I want to respond but your reply makes even less sense lol

Yeah, I wish they used the terms that way, instead of so interchangeably. What you said makes much more sense, tbh.

Well said. They are almost like different sides of the same coin. The reason I ultimately view them as the same thing is that once a branch forms, we then get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now completely separate. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are still independently functioning universes it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe, after the branch occurs. Thoughts?

Well said! I agree, this does indeed go with your earlier theories. I never would have thought something so helpful would be found in an assembled episode for Multiverse of Madness, but that was a very cool bit of lore that Waldron gave us. Fits in so well with the overall story!

That makes alot of sense. It also seems to go with what Scott said in his book. Maybe the timeline book will define it even further for us, but I like your theory!

@@AbitofEverything4U I feel like the time travel in End Game is going to have big ramifications . What happened in New York 2012 . Thanos leaving his timeline from 2016 . That means there is a reality where he never got the stones . Gamora is removed from that timeline along with Nebula and the black order .

@@AbitofEverything4U timeline book only gives us the definitive timeline up until End Game then maybe some events in Phase 4 but none of the effects of No Way Home , Multiverse of Madness, etc as we haven’t seen the results except for maybe Ant Man 3 as we see the council of Kangs can now see the sacred timeline and will surely do a number on the timeline just by interacting with it. .

I think the timeline book will go up to the end of phase 4 and including the Guardians Christmas special. Then, hopefully a future update will give us Phase 5 and beyond.

Yes, you touch on the biggest question I've had about dimensions. Is there one for each universe or just one for the multiverse. Loveness said there is only one Quantum Realm for the multiverse, but it is a unique beast, so while it may be only one for the multiverse, it seems like there is a dark dimension and a noor dimension, etc for each universe. I do wish we had a firm answer on it though. Perhaps the timeine book will discuss it. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

Yeah, I like the way you described it. But does that mean there is only one dark dimension that is a fold that can be accessed from all timelines/universes in the multiverse or that each timeline/universe in the multiverse has it's own dark dimension. It seems there has to be a dark dimension for each timeline/universe, based on Dr. Strange's fight with Dormammu, but I can't quite tell.

Well, Branches are originated from the same baseline.

Exactly

So for my delay in replying, but I agree, I thought that Michael Waldron comment about branched universes made so much sense. Glad you enjoyed it as well. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

@@lucagz6481Well said!

@@AbitofEverything4Ulove your content keep it up.

Makes sense. And if that change in the timeline results in a new reality, then it seems that if we call it a timeline (as Bruce did) or a universe (as the Watcher did), the two terms basically mean the same thing. The split realities are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are still independently functioning universes it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe. But that's just my take on it. Maybe Loki S2 will provide more info on it.

Yeah, the terms being used definitely make things abit more confusing. So I did a video on what I think Loki's tree really means, and I looked more at the concepts rather than the terms and it seems to be alot more clear after doing that. You can check it out, if you're interested: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m8eSidSGlsfWYKc.html. And thanks for all the great feedback. I really appreciate it!

Sony didn't own Kang so I doubt He Who Remains / Kang the Conquerer could appear in the Spider-Man timelines. X-Men? Maybe. Fox never did crossovers between the X-Men and Fantastic Four, but Dark Phoenix almost had Skrulls which was a Fantastic Four thing, but they were replaced with the D'Bari because Captain Marvel was using the Skrulls. That pure mutant timeline we got probably doesn't have a Kang. The Fantastic Four movies? Very likely. Kang is a descendant of Reed after all.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on that. I agree with @SeanWheeler100 that it seems like the Sony universes wouldn't end up creating a Kang and I really do love the idea that the Raimi and Webb universes are part of the Sacred Timeline. But that said, you could be right in your theory. Hopefully they tell us one day!

​@@SeanWheeler100 Yeah, I tend to agree with you on that. I just love the idea of the Webb and Raimi universes being part of the sacred timeline, so it would be cool if Marvel revealed that one day. Thanks for adding your thoughts on this!

Amen to that! I agree...the term sacred timeline was propaganda fed to the TVA as they truly thought there was only one perfect timeline. But as viewers of the show, it was hard for us to move mentally from that concept to the idea that it was really a small multiverse of timelines. I totally agree with you on that!

I agree...can't wait for Loki S2 and What If S2 to drop. Gonna be awesome. And I feel more and more each day that AoS is canon to the multiverse but not to 616. Marvel just keeps moving in that direction. But, as long as it's canon in the multiverse, I'm okay with that. Definitely an incredible series!

Perfectly stated! I completely agree with that summary...it just seems to make so much sense. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

@@AbitofEverything4U Thank you for trying to make sense of the canon!

My pleasure...it really helps me to lay everything out as my mind just works better that way!

Fantastic commentary. I think you are on to something key. We need a term for two universes/timelines that are unconnected vs. two universes/timelines that are connected as a result of a branch and thus the two are tethered. The reason I struggle with the idea that timelines and universes are different concepts is that once a branch forms, we get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now operating independently after the branch. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are still separately functioning universes going forward, it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe, after the branch occurs. Thoughts?

@@AbitofEverything4U A Timeline is still part of the same Universe, and share the same identical laws of physics, you can reach it via time-travel if you want, but if you travel there and start changing things, you will surely create another branch. Another Universe possess its own laws of physics (some times these are almost identical to the one we know, some time they don't), but because these are completly parallel realities, you are not supposed to travel there of any kind of direct contact. If you do, you will erode the natural barriers that exist between these two realities and cause an Incursion. This is what producer Richie Palmer explained things, most importantly about dreamwalking: "As our friend Reed Richards tells us, an incursion occurs when a being from one universe travels to another and causes a big enough footprint. You can’t go to another universe and start stomping around and making big waves. If you do, it’s going to mess up the whole balance of the Multiverse, and it could destroy one or both of the universes entirely. The magical connection between those two universes should not be messed with." “If you’re going to possess your own body in another universe, if you were to go there and observe and just watch for a second, maybe it wouldn’t do anything. But if you’re going to go and start messing with natural events of that universe, the natural timeline and flow of another universe, it could really set off a chain of events in motion that could destroy the entire universe.” Here the interview: www.marvel.com/amp/articles/movies/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-dreamwalking-incursions?fbclid=IwAR0tj9lQXPBWIKI8YQ2_jMnva3_1ksOLiOybSxzyOp4uGNp3ILm197NIWYk?

@@lucagz6481Great article...thanks for sharing it. That gives alot of insight into the discussion!

Interestingly, they did explain why Loki is so different, even when a branch forms off the same universe (i.e. the sacred timeline). In S1 E2, Mobius said: "We're looking for a Loki. A variation of this guy. A type we should all be very familiar with, because the TVA has pruned a lotta these guys, almost more than any other Variant. And no two are alike. Slight differences in appearances, or not so slight. Different powers, although, powers, generally include shape-shifting, illusion-projection, and my favorite... Duplication-casting." So Loki is being described as a sort of chaos being that keeps generating such unique variants. I'm pretty convinced that the sacred timeline is just the 616 universe and all of its branched timelines. Hopefully we'll get even more info as the series progresses.

The TVA works differently from the normal Timeline. So time can act in different ways there, which is why time-slipping shouldn't be possible.

Yeah, I'm really hoping Loki S2 brings things all together into a cohesive storyline. Fingers crossed that it is a fantastic series!

​@@lucagz6481Agreed...the time slipping element is going to be fascinating to see how it all fits in!

Great feedback on the vid. I think your summary of universes, timelines, realities and branches was perfect. Nicely done! As for No Way Home, I have always assumed that the Spider-Man universes were part of the interwoven layers of the sacred timeline, due to them not creating a Kang. If that's the case, they it would make sense that Dr. Strange's spell could accidentally pull over villains (and the two Spider-Men!) from those universes. Just my head canon, but I think the Webb and Raimi universes have always been closely related to 616. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

Interesting theories. Thanks for sharing. So, do you think there is more than one Dark Dimension for the Multiverse? That's a question I've been struggling with in regards to things like the Dark Dimension, Noor Dimension, Valhalla, Duat, etc. Thoughts?

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@AbitofEverything4UI do think there’s only one of these “special” dimensions in the Multiverse, but “alternate dimension” isn’t one of them and it just means universe Btw I edited the comment adding some more thoughts after watching the entire video

Yeah, I'm just so torn on the different dimensions and whether there is only one for the multiverse or not. For instance with the Dark Dimension, is there only one Domammu for the entire multiverse? And did Dr. Strange just banish him from interfering with 616 or from all of the multiverse? Makes my head hurt abit thinking about it.

I hadn’t really considered this earlier, but it might be that there are multiple Dormammu’s, after all, if our Strange was the first to banish him from the multiverse, then what would the other Stranges do in their films/origin arcs? Also, the only way for Strange to keep Dormammu from breaking the deal is that he is there with the time stone (which he doesn’t even have anymore but I guess Dormammu hasn’t thought of coming back and trying again), and if he banished him from the multiverse then he wouldn’t be able to make sure there’s a Strange in each universe ready to protect it, similarly, I bet if there was one Mirror Dimension in the multiverse, then people would stumble upon other versions of themselves which we didn’t see happen, so I would say there are multiple dimensions in the multiverse

Right...all very good reasons to imagine there must be a dark dimension and mirror dimension for each universe. It would also be weird to come to Valhalla and meet other variants of yourself that perished. So it seems the afterlife is unique per universe as well.

Love it! Maybe the video gave you an extra boost of energy that allowed you to win!

Great point about not wanting all the info spelled out for us. I'm with you that I like it being given to us small pieces of the story over time and letting us brainstorm things. The reason I brought up those first two Waldron quotes, though, is because I think that some of the aspects of the Loki series weren't meant to be so cryptic. Waldron seemed to feel they were very clear. But if not for his and Herron's interviews, we may not have understood that: 1. The sacred timeline had multiple strands (i.e. more than one interwoven timeline) 2. That Nexus events were only a concern if they resulted in a new Kang 3. That He Who Remains didn't wipe out the other Kangs but simply isolated himself from them 4. That upon HWR's death, the new branches created links back to the rest of the multiverse 5. That you can jump between timelines that are connected via an earlier branch due to having an anchor timeline, but you can't jump to an unconnected universe (other than America, that is). In each case above, I think Waldron felt that the source material explained these things. But instead, he had to do multiple interviews to clear them up. That said, I still find it fun to dig through his interviews and put together all the clues. So it's fine for us super fans, but I fear casual fans are very lost at this point. Hopefully things will be alot more clear going forward. Either way, I'm loving the multiverse storyline so far. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!

Yeah...I give the Arrowverse alot of credit for really laying things down clearly. They did a great job of explaining it all!

Facts

@@giovannigiovanni.7220 Indeed!

U earned a new sub btw; great breakdown!

Great feedback. Yes, it does seem that Marvel has made the multiverse saga more confusing than necessary by using the different terms interchangeably, which is a bummer. But otherwise, I am enjoying the multiverse saga overall. I think things are going to get very interesting with Loki S2 on the horizon. Oh, and thanks so much for supporting the channel and being a subscriber. Really appreciate it!

I think that it must be that using the quantum realm to travel is a better type of tech than Miguel has (sorry, Miguel). I say that because no one using the quantum realm for the time heist glitched, including of course Gamora. So the type of tech seems to be important.

Maybe when you switch universes when branching off from your own, you don't glitch either because you didn't really do anything yourself to change universes

@@colombclusetThat could be...I hope we learn more about the glitching in BTSV. That movie is gonna be amazing!

Agreed...that would be so nice! I honestly think that in a way it's all semantics, as there has to be an entire copy of the original universe when a branch occurs, as they are now completely separate. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. Either way, they are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when the original universe split paths, but they are still independently functioning universes going forward, it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe, after the branch occurs.

Good analogy about the forest, trees, branches and grass/dirt. I like that alot. And great YT image. Scream is by far one of the best (if not the best) horror series ever. That first movie is soooo good!

@@AbitofEverything4U thank you! I love the first Scream movie so much! I appreciate your content and the work you put in towards interacting with your community! Keep up the great work!

Thanks...love reading all the comments and hearing what fellow MCU (and fellow Scream!) fans are thinking. I always learn something interesting!

Great analogy, which is actually the same one used by director Kate Herron: "So, there’s the branches, right, which is like the alternative reality. But then something, you’ll see it, it’s very subtle but in the very last shot where you see the multiverse, there’s like basically other bigger physical timeline branches. So, it’s almost like these different separate trees that are now connecting." The one wrong assumption is that He Who Remains destroyed the other Universes, which he didn't.

@@lucagz6481 yeah I didn’t know that he isolated the timelines from the full multiverse. So the greater multiverse existed, the sacred timeline was just isolated away from detection.

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I will say that it also helps me alot to lay it all out in an orderly manner. It's complex, but it also seems to be adhering pretty well to the same logic across the different MCU movies/shows. Really appreciate you watching the video and sharing your thoughts!

That's a good thought. I wonder if when we next see 838, if they will use it to explain the differences in the terms. It does at least seem that 838 was a universe that wasn't connected to 616 via a branch and could therefore only be reached via America's powers.

why separate? if timeline and universe can be used interchangeably, so can alternate universe/alternate timeline unless youre talking about branch timelines vs separate universes

@@echo_z319 Yes, I think you nailed it...we really need separate terms for universes that are connected due to having branched at some point in the past vs. universes that are completely unconnected with each other.

@@AbitofEverything4U yeah, hopefully in loki 2 if not then in an interview or smthn cause idk when else they would feel the need to talk about that 😅

@@echo_z319Agreed...it's not something that's likely to come up in casual conversation. lol!

Great feedback. Thanks so much for sharing all of that. I think we really do need a term for two universes/timelines that are unconnected vs. two universes/timelines that are connected as a result of a branch and thus the two are tethered. The reason I struggle with the idea that timelines and universes are different concepts is that once a branch forms, we get a new...well, something. But if that something isn't an entire copy of the original universe at the point of the branch, then I don't know what we got. The Watcher called it a new universe and Bruce called it a new timeline. I think in a way it's all semantics, as it has to be an entire copy of the original universe, as they are now operating independently after the branching. They are still connected/tethered to each other via the branch that occurred when they split paths, but they are also separately functioning universes going forward, it seems. So ig I don't see the functional difference between a timeline or a universe, after the branch occurs. Thoughts?

@@AbitofEverything4U OK, this is how I see it, every timeline is represented by a loop circle which is comprise of multiple universes different from each other but they follow the same timeline narrative, a new reality/universe is create when a individual makes a choice deviating from the timeline which is called a branch reality and that connects itself with a different timeline/different time loop circle and if there two branches/universes/realities colliding with each other from two different timelines that would be called an incursion. Timeline/universes represented by a (time loop circle) Branches = new universes/new realities I think every timeline is it own multiverse, basically the time loop circle illustration is an organize multiverse and a tree illustration at the end of loki ep6 is an unorganize multiverse where there multiple time loop circle interconnected with each other without restriction, without isolation. I knows marvel is not making it clear but it's there.

Interesting! That's a cool theory. Yeah, I do hope Marvel explains it all at some point. But it's fun to theorize in the meantime!

@@AbitofEverything4U hey I rewatch loki ep6 and you're right about the multiverse term being use interchangeably but those same term have different definitions when explaining the multiverse.

​@@qfranklin2777Yeah, it is definitely confusing how the terms are thrown around as though they mean the same thing. Maybe the timeline book will provide firm definitions.

I do tend to agree...using the three terms interchangeably is a bummer. It seems that they haven't laid out a description for each term. Hopefully they can land on a specific definition for each and stick to it going forward. Either way, I'm excited to see where the multiverse saga goes from here. Feels like the pieces are slowly falling into place!

I agree...I think there was some type of Kang Council before the first multiversal war and HWR defeated them. I really hope Loki Season 2 gives us a full circle explanation of everything that led up to HWR taking over!

I would be totally down with about a 10 minute portion of a movie where he just diagrams stuff on a chalkboard and explains it. That would be so sweet!

Love those theories! I agree, there are so many directions things could go. I'm really enjoying the multiverse saga so far. Can't wait for Loki S2 to arrive! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

That's a fascinating idea! I'd have no issue if they went that route and it would indeed be a very clever way to honor the 616 numbering and still allow Iman and other's to be right as well. Love it!

Finally hit it late last night. Whew! Now on to the next milestone. Thanks so much for your awesome support!

@@AbitofEverything4U congrats!!

Thanks!!

Yes, I'd like to imagine it that way, too. Could give us some very cool crossovers for Secret Wars!

Great commentary. I guess the only reason I am disappointed with the fact that the movies/shows jump between the terms universe/timelines/realities is that it confuses people and makes it seem like they aren't the same thing, when it seems like they basically are. But I agree, things evolved over time and so it's hard to be 100% consistent. And I do like your explanation of dimensions. I would really love for Marvel to give us their explanation at some point. I admit that I am the most confused about how they function in relation to the multiverse itself. Thx again for all the great feedback!

Yeah, Marvel has been pretty loose with their terms so far. It's made it alot more confusing than it should be. And I agree, The Flash made it much more clear. Here's hoping Marvel can get it all in order before we reach Secret Wars!

Good question...I think this video is still accurate, but I do think I'll make an updated video now that we have Loki's new version of the 616 universe and have even more info to go off of. I'll try to get that out in the next few days, in fact. Thanks for asking!

Good question. They haven't really attempted to answer that yet, but my theory is that depending on how early a branch occurred in the timeline, I could imagine very different Loki's eventually forming in that unique branch.

Yeah different universes in the timeline which can also branch ?

@@kcreator8844Yes, that's another possibility. But considering they were all within the sacred timeline, my thought is that the sacred timeline branched at a point early enough in the timeline that it resulted in drastically different Loki's eventually being created.

@@AbitofEverything4U that seems most likely . Though I wonder if kang only appears in a single universe like the main mcu. Like the x men universe .

@@kcreator8844 Right! I wonder if we'll ever see Kang popping up in some of the stranger universes, like the paint universe or the animated universes, etc.

I suspect that time slipping lets you jump between the anchored timelines of your universe, while Chavez can jump to unconnected universes.

That's the exact question that I want to explore. I'm gonna wait and see if we get some answers in the timeline book, but if not, I'm going to take some educated guesses and give it my best attempt to answer that question.

I agree. Realities like Earth-838, Tobey, Andrew, Deadpool and X-men Universes are all their own thing, with Branches being created (which would explain the Spider-Man villains from NWH surviving and Deadpool time traveling in DP2). The Miss Minute cartoon gives a false information about the Multiverse in order to justify why the TVA is looking after all these different variations in the Sacred Timeline. With the people at the TVA afraid of Branches passing the red-line, their actions enforce the isolation of Earth-616, because they fear the unknown, just like some religious cult or isolated society approach. It seriously changes your prespective on things when you think about it ...

Great commentary! I agree...I think the Raimi and Webb Spider-Man universes are part of the sacred timeline. I love that idea. As for timelines vs. universes, I think what we really need is a term for two universes/timelines that are unconnected vs. two universes/timelines that are connected as a result of a branch and thus the two are tethered. That seems to be the key distinction to me. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really do appreciate it!

@@lucagz6481Well said...excellent points!

I do think traveling between timeline branches avoids creating a nexus event. But I suspect that if Steve went to 1949 in the main 616 timeline (i.e. the past for the main MCU) this would create a branch, due to what Hulk said about being unable to change our past. But it's a mystery that needs to be solved by Marvel at some point. I would love it if the timeline book finally answered the question!

That's an interesting theory. Yeah, you could view dream walking as your mind using your dreams to explore other universes and perhaps find one where you had a happier ending to something traumatic in your life. I like that!

Yeah, exactly. Thanks to the Branches, your spirit can move from one Universe to the other until you reach the desired one.

@@lucagz6481 Very cool!

Yeah, I'm really hoping that Loki S2 continues this overall story that Waldron and Loveness have started. It would indeed be a shame to suddenly pivot in a different direction. But I honestly suspect that they will continue to explore the concepts from Loki S1 and that it will all fit together. Fingers crossed!

My guess is that in some regards the multiversal war has continued, but that the three main Kangs that we saw at the end of Quantumania have mostly asserted control and may just kill off any Kangs that won't submit to their rule. The Kangs we saw in the coliseum all seemed to be subservient to the big three. Will be cool to see more of their backstory in future MCU entries!

They are their own Universes. The Branches are what allow different Universes to communicate.

This is such a great question. I see two options: 1. Because I love the idea of the Raimi and Webb universes being part of the sacred timeline, I like to think they are branches that didn't result in Kangs and so HWR allowed them to be part of the interwoven strands of the sacred timeline that Waldron descdribes. 2. It is equally possible that they were not part of the sacred timeline and thus they were therefore separate universes with no branch back to the main 616. However, due to HWR's death, the sacred timeline branched and eventually started to form "bridges" to the rest of the multiverse, as Herron states. This could mean they are reconnected, or it could mean they are starting to overlap. In either case, however, I suspect Tobey and Andrew came across to 616 due to Dr. Strange's failed spell. Ironically, NWH was supposed to come out after MoM, but due to delay's in Marvel's schedule, NWH came out first. Had they been in the other order, it would have been America Chavez that brought over the Spider-Men, as she would have been introduced already. However, it ended up being Ned doing it instead. Those are my thoughts on it. I do hope we get a firm answer from Marvel, perhaps as part of the upcoming timeline book!

​@@lucagz6481 Agreed...they are definitely separate universes. I'd love to think they were part of the interwoven strands of the sacred timeline, but that's just my head canon, as I just think that would be cool.

Best of luck!

Best of luck!