Is there EVIDENCE the 1st century Church used ICONOGRAPHY? by Fr. Gabriel Wissa

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Is there EVIDENCE the 1st century Church used ICONOGRAPHY?
In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit; One God, Amen.
Is there evidence the early Church used iconography? Or is iconography an innovation? If there is evidence, how early is it? How do these questions fit with the commandment of not making carved images found in Exodus 20? These are the questions we’re hoping to answer today.
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Пікірлер: 68

@TheologyMom 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating video. Thank you for making this thoughtful content that I can share with Protestant friends who ask our ministry this question.

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you ThelogyMom... pray for us

@1337Jag 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome history, thank you

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

Thank you dear.... pray for us

@JesusChrist-SavesFromHell Ай бұрын

Thank you so very much dear brother in Christ , May HIS Love and Peace Fills your hearts in all situations , of you and your beloved Church in The Precious Name of JESUS Amen

@XereNak 3 жыл бұрын

Really well done

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

Thank you dear

@brotherbear6434 Жыл бұрын

2:21 the word jealous had a different connotation than current negative meaning. It was more common in meaning with zealous.

@mystiqueafrika1189 Жыл бұрын

Catholic here 😁 I enjoyed your explanation. I seriously wish we become one church again thu

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

Amen

@nathanielchance1105 2 жыл бұрын

I have enjoyed these videos 🙂

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

Pray for us

@matthew28-acts238 Жыл бұрын

The concern for me is not that Ikons are evil, or somehow wrong, that would be absurd considering the History of The Church, my concern is that it is implied (strongly) that for one to be Orthodox (don't get me started on East, West, Asian, Coptic) We are all one in Christ or we are not. My concern is that many are made to feel, if they do not venerate the Ikons by kissing and prostrating before them, that somehow, they are less committed followers of The Way, or even worse iconoclasts; and I have a big issue with that, as should anyone else of rational mind.

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

I cannot comment on others but I have not personally felt this in the Coptic Church... God bless

@abanoubnakhla9722 Ай бұрын

The mandate your talking about is from Nicea 2 for Oriental Orthodox churches were dont hold to it so we actually do not have a canon like that in our tradition that enforces iconodulia

@christophersnedeker Жыл бұрын

The catacombs have iconography in them dating to the preconstintinian church.

@christophersnedeker Жыл бұрын

I think the issue is more about the veneration of icons rather than the icons themselves.

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

But what is veneration?

@eldermillennial8330 6 ай бұрын

My understanding is that the OO had an independent synod that studied & Agreed with the EO’s 7th Ecumenical Council’s basic conclusions, if not with its Ecumenical status.

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 5 ай бұрын

From my understanding, OO’s agree with the content of all councils with the exception of Chalcedon because of its vagueness and history. But I’m not in a position of authority to confirm such a thing.

@kikikaakau-delizo8152 5 ай бұрын

There's an Orthodox monastery in Jerusalem, in the house of St. Mark, where the first icon painted by St. Luke is kept. I've seen it. The idea that iconoclasts had, suggesting icons should be forbidden was, by God's hand, defeated in an Ecumenical Council. If not for protestantism's habit of being shallow and without Holy Tradition, iconography would be found in all Christian churches.

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 5 ай бұрын

An icon simply points to Christ... May our lives be icons of Him.

@j.athanasius9832 Жыл бұрын

While I agree that images are not necessarily idolatrous, as a Protestant I believe they can become idolatrous once incense are offered to them, as the Greeks permitted in Nicaea II. Sure, the Jews had images like the bronze serpent, but once incense was offered to them, the image was destroyed.

@Jay-iw1bc Жыл бұрын

Revelation 8:4 - KJV - And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

@andys3035 Жыл бұрын

No Orthodox Church offers incense to an icon. The priests incense the icons, the people, the church itself but that doesn't mean the incense is offered to a them or to a piece of wood with paint.

@christophersnedeker Жыл бұрын

@@Jay-iw1bc He's not talking about burning incense in general but offering incense to an icon.

@YourBoyJohnny94 Жыл бұрын

@@Jay-iw1bc That incense was not offered to images though.

@pdstor Жыл бұрын

To add to Abouna, the Ancient Near East city-states each had their gods, which were statues. These were not statuary as known by our Church today, but rather were considered **as the actual god of that particular city or culture.** History is rife with warlords stealing these statues and destroying them, thus causing the conquered city to mourn over not just their military loss, but the destruction of their god! This practice was extremely abominable to Him, who had not yet Incarnated, and Whose people were also temped by this sin many times (remember the golden calf!).

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

Well said!

@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын

so you don't bow down to images... right?... right?

@christophersnedeker Жыл бұрын

Joshua bowed down before the ark of the covenant which included images of cherubim. You could say he was just bowing to the presence of God but does it say he bowed down to just the presence of God or does it say he bowed down to the ark. If you saw a dart board with a picture of Jesus or Paul or Mary on the bullseye would you throw a dart at it? If no then you are honoring icons.

@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын

@@christophersnedeker Did God ever command his people to bow before the ark? Joshua bowed before the ark; God told him to get up. I wouldn't throw a dart at Hitler's image. Not disrespecting an image of a person is not the same as venerating the image, including it in Christian worship, and making it an essential in following Christ, or cursing people who don't do so.

@marcokite Жыл бұрын

oh Chris you confuse 'worship' with 'veneration/love/respect'. of course veneration/love/respect are part of worship but in themselves are NOT worship. bowing before a Holy Image is not worship OF the Image but EITHER worship of Christ through and with the Icon (if it is an image of Christ) or it is veneration of the Mother of God or the other Saints through and with the Icon. yes of course we should bow before a Holy Icon.....right?.....right?

@marcokite Жыл бұрын

@@pigetstuck - He told Joshua to get up AFTER he had remained there until evening. the Lord told him to get up to take action...context Chris.....context.

@pigetstuck Жыл бұрын

@@marcokite could you provide that context here? I thought I had read the relevant text, but it's possible I missed something.

@matthew28-acts238 Жыл бұрын

Illiterate: what definition? What is the premise for the definition? We know that Enoch, seventh from Adam, was one of the first to bring handwriting communication to the people of God. The People of God could understand fully the Hebrew handed down by our great Patriarch Enoch, seventh from Adam, and first to be taught the Language of the Garden since the banishment; so how can these be illiterate?

@linak7155 3 жыл бұрын

I think no matter how it is spun the fact is carved images and icons are a no no. The fact that paintings hv been found in ancient churches or synagogue does not constitute grounds for their use. We need to take God at His Word. He has warned against erecting statues or icons... Psalm 145:18 Yah is near to all who call on Him, to all who call out to Him in truth. John 4:23 But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 🌹

@jonathanwilliams1065 3 жыл бұрын

Scripture literally commands that the Jews make carved images however these were not to be worshiped there is no evidence that all artwork or all sculpture is banned however if such images are worshiped that is absolutely forbidden the controversy regarding icons is weather they are worshiped or not

@jonathanwilliams1065 3 жыл бұрын

@@josephjude1290 one that is difficult to tell

@k.w.9242 3 жыл бұрын

I don't think we should always take God at His words. If we do.. all of us Christians would be blind... Matthew 5-29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. When people kiss pictures, obviously, they are showing their love to whom the picture is depicting not the piece of paper and ink.

@williamedwards2512 3 жыл бұрын

There is a small booklet of 76 pages called, Three Treatises on The Divine Images: Apologia Against Those Who Decry Holy Images By St. John of Damascus ( 674- December 4, 749 ) This should help you better understand Catholic and Orthodox views on this. Its a great study and read.

@linak7155 3 жыл бұрын

I am interested in learning the simple teaching of Scripture as opposed to man made interpretations. In my view there's a faith that is authentic which began with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There is also a counterfeit, which is the added traditions of men which the Catholic and its off shoots hv grown out from. There is a vast distinction between man made systems and the pure / unadultared Word of God. Jesus spoke against abandoning the Word of God to follow the traditions of men Mark 7:7. Not all traditions are inherently wrong …there are some valuable ones. The criteria must be whether a doctrine, practice, or tradition is Biblical.

@colegest9742 2 жыл бұрын

Repent of your heresy and be united back to canonical Orthodoxy Christ has two naturals and two wills as explicated by the 4th ecumenical council. We cannot have unity until the Copts repent

@eyobelhaile3458 2 жыл бұрын

Christ is of two natures. You better read what the early fathers said. φύσις τοῦ θεοῦ λόγου σεσαρκωμένη Christ is one incarnate nature. You better repent and return to the mother church. The Ego and Pride you guys have is un Orthodox. Forget the theology, the pride itself will separate you from our Lord. May God have mercy upon us all.

@PETERJOHN101 2 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

@davidciavarri7920 11 ай бұрын

Mt dude we literally believe the same thing. We are miaphysites NOT monophysites. Look up the difference please

@CopticOrthodoxAnswers 6 ай бұрын

Pls inform yourself before putting comments like this... sad...