Is This Atlanta Streetcar 'The Worst Transit Project of All Time'?

Рет қаралды 64,435

Жыл бұрын

Transit ridership, especially rail, has collapsed post-pandemic, but the Atlanta BeltLine Coalition says now is the time to take federal dollars and build a $2.5 billion streetcar.
Full text and links: reason.com/video/2022/09/22/i...
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Twenty-three years ago, Atlanta-native and architecture and urban planning student Ryan Gravel had an experience that opened his mind to what urban living could be.
"My senior year I spent abroad in Paris and lived without a car for a year and traveled by train everywhere," says Gravel. "And within a month of arriving, I had lost 15 pounds. I was in the best shape of my life because I was walking everywhere, and the role of the physical city was made clear to me in a way it really had never been before."
For his Georgia Tech master's thesis, Gravel sketched out a plan to make Atlanta more like Paris. He proposed redeveloping the land along the city's historic rail lines to create a 22-mile loop called the Atlanta BeltLine. He proposed turning the city's abandoned industrial areas and single-family home neighborhoods into business districts and walking trails. And he proposed connecting downtown to the rest of the city all with a new train running along the entire Atlanta BeltLine.
"I never imagined we would actually do it," says Gravel.
But they did-for the most part. Cathy Woolard, who was president of the Atlanta City Council, read Gravel's thesis and decided to use it as a blueprint to remake much of the city. Today, the Atlanta BeltLine is a walking and biking trail, parts of which are bordered by retail and condos.
But one piece of Gravel's grand vision didn't get built: The train.
Today, Gravel runs a co-working and event space along the BeltLine, which also serves as a gathering place for urbanists interested in making Atlanta less dependent on cars. He says that the train line is essential for improving city life.
"In those early days, when we built the movement behind the [BeltLine] project, it was around transit," says Gravel.
The three COVID relief bills set aside $69 billion in federal funding for local transit agencies to operate and add to their transportation systems, meaning that Atlanta might finally get its train-with many American taxpayers who will never step foot on it picking up much of the tab.
Many American cities have used federal money in the past to build rail transit lines that suffer from dismal ridership, that are expensive to maintain, and that are a major drain on their budgets.
Produced by Zach Weissmueller; edited by Danielle Thompson; additional graphics by Isaac Reese; camera by David Lyman; production assistance by Addie Mae.
Music: "Sur Le Manège" by Francesco D'Andrea via Artlist; "Poligon" by Crazy Paris via Artlist; "XIII" by Angel Salazar via Artlist; "Manhattan" by Will Van De Crommert via Artlist; "Blink: by Swirling Ship via Artlist; "Sunrise City" by Sebastian Borromeo via Artlist; "Cold War" by Maya Pacziga via Artlist; "cdHiddenDir" by Out of Flux via Artlist; "Attracting Drama" by Rhythm Scott via Artlist; "Always Ready" by Rhythm Scott via Artlist; "The Woodworks" by Jacob Kinstle via Artlist; "Happy on My Own" by Kyle Cox via Artlist
Photos: null/Newscom; Walter Bibikow / DanitaDelimont.com / Danita Delimont Photography/Newscom; DPST/Newscom; Boston Public Library, CC BY 2.0., Via Wikimedia Commons; Abaca Press/Gripas Yuri/Abaca/Sipa USA/Newscom; Richard B. Levine/Newscom; Michael Ho Wai Lee / SOPA Images/Newscom; Michael Ho Wai Lee / SOPA Images/Newscom; Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call/Newscom; Kent D. Johnson/TNS/Newscom; Vittorio Sciosia/Newscom; Gabriele Holtermann-Gorden/Sipa/Newscom; Josep Suria/Westend61 GmbH/Newscom; Eugenio Marongiu/Westend61 GmbH/Newscom; William Perugini/Westend61 GmbH/Newscom; Rod Lamkey - CNP/Newscom; CNP/AdMedia/Newscom; CNP/AdMedia/Newscom; Rod Lamkey - CNP/picture alliance / Consolidated News Photos/Newscom; TIM SHAFFER/KRT/Newscom; Scott J. Ferrell/Congressional Quarterly/Newscom; Bill Clark/Roll Call Photos/Newscom; TOM GRALISH/MCT/Newscom; Pool/TNS/Newscom; Doug Mills - Pool via CNP/Newscom; Lev Radin/Pacific Press/Newscom; CNP/AdMedia/Newscom; Graeme Sloan/Sipa USA/Newscom; Walter P. Reuther Library/Wayne State University; Aysegul Akturk, Alex Fox, Ivana Rosas, Carrie Sauer, and Manali Sheth; Harris & Ewing Collection, Library of Congress; Detroit Publishing Company, Library of Congress

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@yourcitypodcast7367 Жыл бұрын

I think it is fair to question the effectiveness of a proposed transit project, but there is a lot of concern in this video about whether or not the rail project will be profitable based on its ridership and whether or not the city will lose money on the project or federal money will be spent on it. You need to keep in mind that pretty much all car infrastructure like our interstate system, parking lots, state highways, and city roads are also not profitable and cost billions in tax dollars, federal or otherwise. This argument that railroads shouldn't be built because it doesn't look like they will be profitable is unfair because that same argument is not being applied to roads being built and in fact the gentleman from Reason even stated that money spent on railway will take money away from other infrastructure such as roads, but the same logic of profitability is not present as an argument for why roads are a better investment. There is an incredible amount of investment necessary to create, maintain, and participate in car-based infrastructure and it doesn't create the most compelling or attractive cities. America is covered in places that are unfriendly to pedestrians, bikers, or any transportation that is not car-based and these places are not easy to navigate if you don't already own a car or have a few thousand dollars to purchase one and developers for business or housing must invest in car-friendly infrastructure such as private roads, driveways, and parking lots to support it. You apply the cost of operation to the railway and argue that if it doesn't make a profit it is unsustainable and a poor investment, but if you applied the same consideration of existing or new car-based infrastructure you would also conclude that it is unsustainable and a poor investment. Bus transit being profitable is fine, but you need to be fair in your infrastructure arguments and I bet you that the bus transit projects do not even come close to paying for the roads that they are driving on.

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

How do you think about the "on demand" mobility option compared to rails?

@yourcitypodcast7367 Жыл бұрын

@@onetwothreeabc Do you mean like Uber or Lyft? I think those are fine options for people to choose, but I don't see them being a part of the conversation between building railway vs building roadway. If the conversation is focused on building new infrastructure then I think my above points should be considered and you need to treat roads in the same way that you treat rails and factor in those costs as described above. However, if the conversation is around how to maximize use of existing infrastructure then I think that's where "on demand" services can be discussed effectively. What about you? What do you think of them?

@bransonS Жыл бұрын

I agree, I’d like to see profitability of public roads too. My unresearched understanding is that roads provide a lot of value by allowing shipping trucks access to businesses, which might be difficult to quantify

@yourcitypodcast7367 Жыл бұрын

@@bransonS Yes, for sure. No doubt that infrastructure can be ineffective or inefficient, but there are many benefits to it that make that a difficult calculation to process such as the benefits that you mentioned like facilitating trade, community, providing access to living spaces, etc. Sometimes these things can be measured easily in dollars and cents, but other times it can be hard to see just how impactful (positive or negative) a project like this can be on a community. I know this video focuses on the financial aspects of this proposed project, but the intangible effects can be important as well. For example people will travel long distances to see a beautiful structure such as The Eiffel Tower in France or Saint Basil's Cathedral in Russia, but it certainly costs lots more money to design and build something beautiful than something purely efficient at a task. This is not necessarily a one-to-one comparison for the topic of the video, just an observation that culture and community can be impacted by the look and layout of a city and that we shouldn't always seek the most utilitarian route when it comes to constructing the cities and spaces we live in.

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

None cares about unfriendly to pedestrians. If you don't drive you are the problem and don't matter. End of story in the US.

@notmuch_23 Жыл бұрын

There are plenty of people want to live in places that do not need cars to go anywhere. If the free market was free to work, there would be plenty of those places in the United States and Canada. Government zoning laws and ordinances that dictate strict separation of residential and commercial zones, limit density, and ordinances dictate minimum parking requirements. Those Government laws make the places those people want to live practically impossible to build.

@dembert4666 Жыл бұрын

This is a perfect summation of the problem

@Mark-hc8ek Жыл бұрын

And if you live in Europe like I do you learn to live with constant noise and chaos since residential and commercial zoning exists on top of each other, even in small towns. A town of 1,000 in Italy is like living in Brooklyn.

@zuffin1864 Жыл бұрын

@@Mark-hc8ek some cities in the netherlands are dense but quiet, like delft

@viewer-of-content Жыл бұрын

Flaud argument I know developers who have tried to build walkable affordable housing and the biggest issue is crazy Government employees. You have to add: a street side water valve, unwanted yard, required parking, H.O.A. organization, and have to have a community mailbox instead of per townhome mailboxes. America has no walkable cities because the "international building code" a document only used by the USA and Canada basically outlaws new developments of affordable north east style new developments unless the developer bends over backwards and pays any cost. Every local agency basically nimbes anything but single family homes, so where you could develop $150,000 2200^2 feet townhomes with small back yards and no side yards or front yards you're forced to add another $150,000 in: lot size, additional siding, utilities construction, bureaucratic H.O.A. headaches, landscaping, heating/cooling, drainage, etc. Basically everything is more expensive because anything less than a $300,000 house is nearly illegal. HOA requirements are due to Postal office budget cuts, and the water valve requirements are because apparently the city cant be made to walk to the building to turn the water off. Basically you spend all the tax dollars that could go to better postal service to instead get more nagging water borough. gas and power have their own requirement's, i just know the water thing was a last minute denial of individual sales after the permits were already approved, but apparently water cant do their job properly, so instead it was sold as a rental block. Also continuous units hold more heat, so even if you double or triple wall between units full of insulation for sound dampening and under insulate exterior walls you still get less heat/cold encroachment from outside as compared to single family home due to less surface area coming in contact with the greater source of heat loss/gain of the 110•f to -20•f outside.

@vod96 Жыл бұрын

Add to that the subsidies highway that makes long distance rail unprofitable.

@SofaSpy Жыл бұрын

It always annoys me how transit systems always get a bad rep for being expensive and not being utilized effectively. But yet no one has a problem with spending billions of dollars in highway and local street funding, which is large subsidies, And does not generate any revenue. When people wake up and finally realize that there's no such thing as free infrastructure is the day Americans will become better. We need to start tolling every road based on the cost of construction. It cost $2 million dollars per mile to build a local road that leads to a subdivision of 50 homes. That's the definition of welfare subsides.

@BaiZhijie Жыл бұрын

Exactly right! 👍

@Siegetower Жыл бұрын

That's because highways transport all the things you eat, wear, use to decorate your house, use at work, or otherwise consume. Without highways, you don't eat.

@SofaSpy Жыл бұрын

@@Siegetower Railway is a more efficient and cost effective form of transportation. Most of your goods you get comes from railways. Let's face the facts, most highways in America do not generate the revenue that it cost to maintain. Also Highways have a flaw, where the design cannot handle continuous heavy cargo on a daily basis, which leads to decay of the highway and needs constant repair. You know what was designed for the sole purpose of moving heavy cargo, Railways!. Look up American's railway network. Even Amazon is investing in Railway because it is more efficient than cargo trucks

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

@@SofaSpy no most goods go by truck.

@mikeburke7053 Жыл бұрын

40% of federal gas/diesel taxes get earmarked for mass transit. I completely agree with you that this should cease immediately and all gas/diesel taxes should be used funding roads. Of course, like you say, it would be better if gas taxes paid for all the roads and highways and immediately stop subsidizing mass transit. Then, roads and highways would not have to receive money from the general funds. This welfare subsidy should immediately stop. Of course, mass transit should also fund itself, and welfare subsidies for transit should also immediately stop. The NYC subway is 50% funded by subsidies, that like you agree, should come to an end immediately. NYC has ferries that are 90%+ subsidized. "$2 million dollars per mile" Cost per mile of the high speed train to nowhere in California = $200 million per mile. No one will ever use it. But highways get used everyday.

@slutmonke Жыл бұрын

rail or bus doesn't matter. Both will fail so long as zoning forces everyone to travel more than they would if stores and jobs could be within walking distance of homes.

@BaiZhijie Жыл бұрын

Free parking minimums also force buildings to be built farther apart to make room for all those parking lots.

@neolithictransitrevolution427 Жыл бұрын

Property taxes that apply to building values also make it more expensive to build density, whereas land value only taxes make it more expensive to hold undeveloped land

@jacobhatfield4970 Жыл бұрын

@@neolithictransitrevolution427 yes, but undeveloped land has no income. So you also need to looke at opportunity cost which is very dependent on which piece of property you examine

@neolithictransitrevolution427 Жыл бұрын

@@jacobhatfield4970 Not entirely sure what you mean by opportunity cost here. I certainly agree undeveloped land has no income, to me that is part of the point of the tax - forcing development and avoiding speculation on an area. But certainly the amount if tax should be based on the particular piece of property's value

@jonathanyun7817 3 ай бұрын

it does matter, but both are better than the low density hell we currently live in. It's like how people argue between hydrogen and battery electric cars when both are far superior to gas cars, except in this case buses and trains are far superior to cars. Just to clarify

@johnbolen5807 Жыл бұрын

The biggest issue in Atlanta is that we're locked into low density zoning, so we can't have enough residents to make rail feasible in a lot of cases.

@TheEngineerd Жыл бұрын

Sad but true. There is rail where I'm at...but it leads nowhere. Who will hop on a train at a station where almost all other stations open up into a massive parking lot with nothing around. One station is actually surrounded by warehouses, not a prime destination for people. Then people who have never seen good rail will point at these bad attempts and condemn all public transit.

@pepps779 Жыл бұрын

@@TheEngineerd You have a few average quality metro rail spots in the US, but they tend to be very old in origin and thus mainly in the Northeastern area of the US. MARTA is something of a joke in Atlanta, as you can see its potential and also realize it will never get close to achieving it.

@f.d.6667 Жыл бұрын

As someone who is working mostly in environmental medicine (human factors background), I'd say this is something you should be rather glad about. Tram lines and bike paths don't have a measurable impact on car traffic but fewer building per surface area and less IS/LFN emissions from domestic and industrial HVAC sources do result in overall better health in residents...

@TheEngineerd Жыл бұрын

@@pepps779 Which makes sense, as those places that were built before the car are going to be more dense, making it easier to get to a station and go somewhere from a station. Slapping down a train line next to your typical suburb neighborhood where someone would have to travel up to a mile just to leave their neighborhood will not be used much.

@spencer1980 Жыл бұрын

@@f.d.6667 so how DO we reduce cars in cities? As someone who's lived in Europe without a car, it's fucking wonderful. I love the freedom and mobility afforded by a car, but I hate that I HAVE TO drive to get anywhere here.

@stevensmith4099 Жыл бұрын

A well designed rail will outperform a bus for efficiency. You looked at the train at 3 p.m. Now show it again at 5:30 pm as people are going home from work. Imagine New York without a subway. Sure the buses might be cheaper to serve smaller groups of people in more numerous locations in a city, but a train will build the city itself. The right answer is yes, we need more of both.

@Gee-xb7rt 3 ай бұрын

I live in Atlanta, and this is obviously a hit piece, Republicans have been attacking the downtown trolly for forever. Its concept really was for tourists, at least try to make us look civilized. our downtown is kind of strange in that its predominately Georgia State University and tourism, and the trolly links the Aquarium/World of Coca Cola area to the King historic district. To give you an idea of how Atlanta rolls the University is where it is because it was built over the black business district. The initial heavy rail plans were considerably more comprehensive, like a train to Emory/CDC seems like a no brainer, but white people didn't want trains going to their neighborhoods.

@mcwolf90 Жыл бұрын

For a highly successful transit line you need frequent service and transit oriented development. It's a chicken-and-egg problem really, and often American cities only do one side of it (building the line).

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

The video is saying that building the line is more sexy for politicians.

@Razor-gx2dq Жыл бұрын

@@onetwothreeabc yep, they'll use it for re election and that's it.

@mylesmcarthur642 Жыл бұрын

Most of Americas transit lines don't manage either, MARTA rail is okay with 10-20 minute intervals. But CobbLink runs 30 minute intervals more often than 15, doesn't always run very late, and even has sometime runs 60 minuite intervals, witch is especially bad when some the buses are often early late or simply don't exist.

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

@@mylesmcarthur642 So what resources does MARTA or Cobb links need in order to run a more frequent and on-time service?

@ab8817 Жыл бұрын

@@onetwothreeabc ive never heard mass transit described as "sexy" except from car-apologists. its weird.

@zg-it Жыл бұрын

As somebody who lives in Metro Detroit, I'm offended. Our people mover and the M1 rail are definitely the worst mass transit ever created.

@manydirt2600 Жыл бұрын

I came here to comment that whatever dream this streetcar project has, it's bullshit. Detroit mass transit is a joke.

@BungieStudios Жыл бұрын

Urban planners jerk themselves to sleep at the thought of making everybody use public transportation. I'm offended too.

@abramgaller2037 Жыл бұрын

That doesn't mean that they can't try to be worst-er!

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

Idk Metrolink in St Louis and bi state are pretty shit tastic. The rides for disabled are old trucks and beat the hell out of everyone aboard but the driver. I rode with my gf once and never again.

@Vaelosh466 Жыл бұрын

Washington (DC) Metro WMATA has had a plan to extend a line to Dulles Airport since I worked there for a summer in 2013. There were, IIRC, 5 planned stations at that time to end at the airport. I think they've managed to build 2 since then. Other than that, there were so many track fires and single-tracking for a few years that WMATA put out advertisements about how they were going to earn back our trust.

@connor5890 Жыл бұрын

Amtrak can be profitable, Congress prevents it on purpose, because a representative from some rural area where Amtrak has a maintenance facility will demand Amtrak keeps the low ridership corridor while also putting them on blast for not turning a profit... And, freight rail illegally screws up Amtrak operations

@jessebrook1688 Жыл бұрын

We need rail freight, though, for moving massive amounts of everything between major centers. The rail system is just another piece of an infrastructure pie that needs about $3 billion thrown at it for maintenance, and $5 billion for upgrades. There are so many failing parts of that pie, because maintenance isn't sexy while building new is.

@alexanderphilip1809 Жыл бұрын

Freight rail is the circulatory sys that keeps america running.

@connor5890 Жыл бұрын

@@alexanderphilip1809 yeah, I agree completely, but it's so easy to run passenger railroads and freight and not have freight interfere with the passenger railroad. The host railroads make Amtrak wait for hours, because they couldn't keep their schedule and now there's a conflict between the passenger train and the freight. It doesn't have to be this way, and, we don't have to neglect and single track our railroads either.

@qwerty112311 Жыл бұрын

@@connor5890 it should be this way. The owner of the rails should have priority on said rails, absent any free market agreement. Alas, there is no such free market agreement, only government mandated rules.

@connor5890 Жыл бұрын

@@qwerty112311 why can't freight be expected to keep the agreed upon schedule? Think of it this way: you pay to use a railroad between say, 9 am and 10 am. The host railroad then, to accommodate you, moves their freight from 7 am to 8 am. But, suppose the freight rail road is late and starts using the track at 8:55 instead. You'd be pissed, right? You paid for a specific time, and the incompetence of the host is the cause for your 1 hour delay What's worse, the host neglected and single tracked their railroads, hoping advanced scheduling would make double tracks unnecessary so they can cut down on costs... But this advance scheduling was a ruse, a fantasy that overpromised and under-delivered. Meaning at one point, passenger and freight was easily able to work in harmony but now railroads have really low capacity due to poor maintenance and single tracking. It's just not fair to Amtrak and their passengers. If Amtrak was delaying the host I'd understand, but it's the other way around most of the time. Remember, Amtrak doesn't use the rails for free

@zach.feldman27 Жыл бұрын

“I like to skateboard and just have fun, be drunk”. Just a phenomenal quote

@michaelkovalsky4907 Жыл бұрын

Suppose you can say that in a way this is the BeltLine doing what it is supposed to do: Act as a giant circle where people can live and have fun. If he gets drunk then worst thing he can do is maybe fall off his sakeboard contrast that to him driving and getting into a wreck

@jessilaurn Жыл бұрын

Kansas City did this the right way: they ran their streetcar route across both residential and business neighborhoods, and made it free to ride. The net result has been a resurgence of successful small business along the route and a citizenry that is getting out and about like never before.

@jackmehauf8664 Жыл бұрын

I live in Toronto and according to the TTCs own statistics, Streetcar passenger numbers for 2019 were 54m, 2020 was 22m (Covid), and passenger numbers for 2021 were 50m. I dont know where this idea that the ridership isnt going to come back is coming from? Thats 92% of the previous ridership. Seems to be coming back fine.

@serbansaredwood Жыл бұрын

As of labour day service on lines 1 and 2, streetcar lines, and a number of bus routes was increased to account for more people commuting. And GO has already hit pre pandemic levels, and extended the number of carriages on each train. I don't know why American cities think public transit shouldn't exist because apparently everyone works from home

@moho472 Жыл бұрын

And they're also anemic when it comes to funding, too. People always complain about how bad the TTC buses are, yet they don't want any property taxes to increase in order to have better service. No money, no service. Simple as.

@klausr3581 Жыл бұрын

Ride the streetcar. Before the 2020 it was hard to get on the streetcar, now seats are available. Also many people do not pay.

@drewhester6836 Жыл бұрын

A big problem is that American transit systems have terrible frequencies. It's all about frequency no matter the mode. For example the LA metro runs 10-15 minutes between trains during peak hours, while in Toronto its 2 minutes during peak hours. Post-Pandemic even in one of the strictest lockdown cities, if you go on the subway or regional rail in the morning it is packed. This goes the same for our buses. Toronto has an extensive bus network with wait times as low as 5 mins. I feel as though both sides are kind of right in this argument, in that if you can build a rapid bus network that is more frequent than a train than sure. But I think saying that trains are bad because no one is using it is backwards. Trains are bad in the US, and that's why no one is using them.

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

How about instead of building a rail line, use it to improve bus frequencies?

@drewhester6836 Жыл бұрын

@@onetwothreeabc I would agree, if you are strapped for cash sure. But what we are seeing is that eventually those bus lines will have to be converted into light rail to meet the capacity. So for a city the size of Atlanta put in the investment now

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

@@drewhester6836 "But what we are seeing is that eventually those bus lines will have to be converted into light rail to meet the capacity. " In Atlanta, the buses are not that crowded usually. So I'm not sure where you get this.

@blainegabbertgabonemhofgoa6602 Жыл бұрын

@@onetwothreeabc there’re not packed because of low frequency. People don’t want to wait 30 minutes for a bus.

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

@@blainegabbertgabonemhofgoa6602 See my first reply... I said to use the resources to improve bus frequencies instead of building a new rail.

@AnthonyDunn93 Жыл бұрын

This expert is really saying that ring lines have no space in transit is one of the reasons why American transit doesn’t work…the sprawl focussed, downtown model - not everyone should commute into a city centre, so a convenient circle line to circumvent is so valuable. Not everyone in New York wants to travel to manhattan: it should be easier to travel from Brooklyn to queens for example

@JohnDoe-rk9tr Жыл бұрын

If these transit rings are so useless, why does every city have a highway bypass (like Atlanta's 285) that runs in a ring around the perimeter of the city? Somehow people use these rings to drive places but couldn't possibly ride transit on that route? And the Beltline is packed 24/7 with skyrocketing property values but there are no destinations along it that could possibly support transit ridership? Ridiculous.

@ab8817 Жыл бұрын

@@JohnDoe-rk9tr the beltline would benefit more from encouraging businesses to open that aren't expensive restaurants or expensive housing. it's kind of being treated like a boardwalk right now. people drive to the beltline. its hardly anything utilitarian, which was the purpose in the first place.

@TheKewlPerson Жыл бұрын

The Yamanote Line in Tokyo is one of the most used and oldest JR lines, and allowed for the growth of Tokyo's center city to spread to various districts like Shibuya and Shinjuku, rather than just in one downtown area.

@steinarjonsson_ Жыл бұрын

9:11 Who uses 2020 as a reliable reference year for transportation data? It's obviously going to show a massive drop in passengers because people weren't allowed to leave their houses for months... Also, using 3pm on a weekday as a reference for passenger count is also stupid because most people are at work, it's before rush hour.

@sinisterdesign Жыл бұрын

"Stupid" is about the level of analytical competence I've come to expect from Reason, to be honest.

@mrgmsrd Жыл бұрын

Going to LA to learn "best practices" is possibly the funniest thing I've heard. I lived off that dedicated lane bus line for many years. It was a failure. The bus couldn't go faster than regular traffic (which was the original intention, with the bus overriding the intersecting traffic lights, but it resulted in many accidents), and it only helps riders get to very limited destinations, at which point you need to transfer to another, much slower bus or get on the subway (another dismal failure). Los Angeles does not have great public transit. Learning from their "best practices" only works if they are trying to learn what NOT to do.

@ianhomerpura8937 Жыл бұрын

Yep, especially for a city about to host the Olympics in 2028.

@-Sam-S Жыл бұрын

They just wanted an excuse to go vacation in LA

@ab8817 Жыл бұрын

LA and Atlanta have a lot of similarities in population density and geographic structure of the city. it does make sense

@mauricehopes9105 Жыл бұрын

Yeah L.A.'s transit is not the best example. They train lines don't even go to the airport!! I don't know what the correct recipe for low density spread out cities, but LA's system is not the answer.

@ianhomerpura8937 Жыл бұрын

@@-Sam-S to be fair, they nailed it with the railway line from downtown to the beach in Santa Monica. The trains can be faster, though.

@Droidman1231 Жыл бұрын

As a long time Atlanta resident and Reason viewer this video was definitely enjoyable to watch. Most the points are valid, especially how we fixate on rail because it's sexy even when a bus would work, but a few criticisms I have. Comparing the current streetcar to what will be built on the Beltline isn't apples-to-apples. The streetcar we have now was built and operated by the city, not the transit agency, and was intended for economic development primarily, not mobility. As such, it was poorly designed, managed, and not useful. MARTA was eventually given the streetcar but essentially as a white elephant. The Beltline as a corridor is much better and faster for transit than the current streetcar and would be designed and operated by the transit agency from the offset. Most transit systems in America are built in a way to move people to and from offices in downtowns from suburbs. It is true the pandemic has made working from home more popular, but that's not a reason to stop building transit, we should just orient transit to be more feasible for non-work trips/less radial, which the Beltline is a good example of being mixed used and not a straightline from downtown to a suburb. I dislike whenever federal subsidies or not making a profit is used to stop transit building. It's not wrong, but it feels like a double standard because roads, oil subsidies, and parking are also either paid for and currently maintained by subsides (the gas tax does not cover the full cost, just like fares don't for transit) or have artificially mandated minimums. It is unfair and unbalanced to spends tons of subsidized money on car infrastructure but then screech whenever we want to do the same with rail or transit. I rarely drive, yet I have to pay for the highways and local roads I almost never drive on. You can rogue these roads being me indirect and societal good, but so would subsidized transit. It's a double standard.

@onetwothreeabc Жыл бұрын

While I agree with you it's a bit double standard how the video is talking about roads and rails, but I'd like to point out that even if you don't drive, you are enjoying the subsidiary of road in the form of goods shipped to you.

@jirky015 Жыл бұрын

You're not really being completely intellectually honest about our roads. Without our roads and highways, our economy is dead and our way of life is severely low. The fact is most people actually use the roads and highways. So then is it fair to subsidize something that not only will most people never use, almost no one will use? The "but the highways are subsidized" argument seems like a legitimate and fair point, but its not because our roads and highways are vital. And as mentioned in the video and with so many other examples like education, you can't just think spending more money on something is the key difference in making something better. And for the record, I'm not a hater or contrarian. I'm an advocate of good public transportation. I use MARTA quite often because the Red Line goes straight to the airport. I'm just a realist.

@louisinese Жыл бұрын

@@jirky015 Do you think my idea of opening a Taxi business in the city is profitable

@mylesmcarthur642 Жыл бұрын

@@jirky015 Better public transit makes using roads and highways more efficient for the purposes that are not fulfilled by public transit.

@jirky015 Жыл бұрын

@@mylesmcarthur642 Sure. But you can't just build any kind of public transportation just to build it. It has to go places people want to go, it has to be convenient, safe and have frequency. People need to feel like its an all around better option and an alternative to driving. The reality is, in ATL (and other cities), people like their vehicles, find comfort in them and would prefer to drive because it's more convenient. And I'm not saying all of this as a hater or to be a contrarian - I'm a realist. I use public transportation. I use MARTA when I'm in ATL. It goes straight to the airport which is an amazing option and it's only a couple of dollars. I use public transit where I live to go downtown and baseball games, and I when I'm in Florida I take tri-rail to Miami International Airport instead of being driven from West Palm Beach. It's a great option for me - I have no car when I travel and it's inexpensive. I also HATE sitting in traffic. This is just me though. As I said, people are used to their cars, find comfort in driving and its more convenient.

@beatrixkills1 Жыл бұрын

Lol the one dude. "I like skateboarding and having fun being drunk".

@eribourne3953 Жыл бұрын

They're talking about how it's unfair for federal money to go to transit projects that "most Americans won't step foot on" but that began quite some time ago with highways thanks to Eisenhower.

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

Yeah that whole wanting to survive a nuclear war thing was just a scam

@jirky015 Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry, how did you get your food or Amazon package or gas for your car??? There is a massive difference between the federal highway system and a politician's pet project intercity transportation system that no one uses.

@williamerazo3921 Жыл бұрын

👏👏👏👏

@kdrapertrucker Жыл бұрын

@@jirky015 I've used the interstate a lot, I've only ridden a bus for school, and never set foot on a train. Trains are expensive, it's cheaper to fly, not to mention much faster. If it is close enough for ground transit why not drive? Road trips are fun.

@louisinese Жыл бұрын

@@kdrapertrucker I heard the reason why places like Japan are able to have trains the way they do is because the infrastructure for it was built long ago. If they tried it today it would be hella expensive.

@zuffin1864 Жыл бұрын

If drivers had to face more of the cost of roads, that would probably influence their decision to drive everywhere, and consider another option.

@Hans_Peterson Жыл бұрын

Federal gas tax hasn’t risen sense the early 90s, and many city and local jurisdictions pay for road maintenance with general funds. In my city it is literally illegal on the state level for a city to levy a sales tax on gas to pay for road maintenance. People who don’t drive are subsidizing the cost of driving for others.

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

Lol they do in all the fucking taxes they pay.

@gregs42768 Жыл бұрын

@@Hans_Peterson You mean just like public schools??

@jirky015 Жыл бұрын

Three words: CONVENIENCE, CONVENIENCE, CONVENIENCE. THAT is what people want. Taxing is not "influence", thats coercion. Stop trying artificially "influence" people to other options. If people had an option that was better and more CONVENIENT than driving, that is what would influence their decision.

@zuffin1864 Жыл бұрын

@@jirky015 i never said taxation. I was literally meaning privatization to find the most convenience. There is an unmet demand for walkable pleasant urban places, with decent transit, i want that market demand to be met

@wompa70 Жыл бұрын

An individual's use of public transit depends on getting to where you need to go efficiently and affordably. I used to work near the Arts Center MARTA station. I live in one of the cities south on I-85. 1 - Drive the whole way. 2 - Take a bus the whole way. 3 - Drive 30 miles to the nearest MARTA station and take the train. Option 1 was an hour to an hour 15 in the morning with an hour and a half to two hours in the afternoon. Option 2 was 45 minutes to an hour in the morning and three hours in the afternoon. The Art Center Station was the first bus stop. I was first off the bus in the morning but also first on in the afternoon. Option 3 was 45 minutes in and 45 minutes out. The train doesn't have to deal with traffic. Driving to and from the station closest to the house didn't have terrible traffic unless there was a wreck. BUT - the beltline seems to be all about moving people that already live downtown. Buses are definitely more flexible but there's no way I would do that unless there was absolutely no other choice.

@richdobbs6595 Жыл бұрын

As long as most highways and streets are free, the system will be distorted enough that mass transit will be poorly utilized. As long as transit systems are poorly utilized, they will be money pits.

@GaleOfPeril Жыл бұрын

Seems like you take a whole lot of what's around you for granted, a wee shame that

@richdobbs6595 Жыл бұрын

@@GaleOfPeril I'm not sure what you are arguing. I'm advocating for a complete revolution in transit, where in all roads are tolled, or paid for directly by providers for their own purposes. How is that taking things for granted? Rather, I suspect that I'd consider what you are advocating for as half measures that are doomed to disappoint.

@Hans_Peterson Жыл бұрын

@@GaleOfPeril Car commuters are free losers that rely on those who don’t drive to foot the bill for a disproportionate amount of their commute cost.

@BaiZhijie Жыл бұрын

I agree, the highways were built with a 90% subsidy by the federal government. Theres dozens of other invisible subsidies and negative externalities created by choosing a car-dependent system, but they don't usually get critically examined by Libertarian thinkers.

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

Streets have always been free. I'm not going to be nickel and dimed just to go about my business

@swayne1441 Жыл бұрын

Bad zoning killed mass transportation in the United States.

@jhoughjr1 Жыл бұрын

General Motors killed mass transportation. rock n roll everyone must get laid in the back seat on prom night .

@gatewaysolo104 Жыл бұрын

@@jhoughjr1 it's a conspiracy!

@DTD110865 Жыл бұрын

@@jhoughjr1 The same General Motors that built buses and owned the Electro-Motive Division? Sure, Leggo. :P

@sri-kaushalramana437 Жыл бұрын

@@DTD110865 the same general motors that lobbied the federal government into spending billions on freeways that cut through city centers and helped lead to sprawl. Yes that same General Motors

@DTD110865 Жыл бұрын

@@sri-kaushalramana437 What a load of revisionist crap! People were trying to get into the suburbs before cars existed, and they were pushing for freeways and other limited-access highways before GM existed. Also, trains can bring sprawl too.

@justoncheney7172 Жыл бұрын

I'm not saying it's a good idea to build that rail, but roads are a major money pit currently, so saying "We should build new roads" with this money also doesn't seem like a good idea.

@theoldironqueen8224 Жыл бұрын

Car infrastructure costs trillions of dollars each year and inherently costs money by design and people argue against rail? Most cities are bankrupt because of their car dependent infrastructure.

@RussellNelson Жыл бұрын

2:22 another problem with buses is that in addition to swaying from side to side, they bounce up and down in response to potholes. Train tracks don't have potholes.

@Forecastle Жыл бұрын

You clearly never expirienced bumpy tram ride, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/idp6n5xesL2Wp6c.html

@jimbo1637 Жыл бұрын

Successful transit needs 2 things: people to ride it, and destinations people want to go. The issue in Atlanta is that single family zoning and minimum parking requirements make it almost impossible to build transit within walking distance of enough places that people live and actually want to go in order to be successful.

@Sparticulous Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Minimum parking and single family home restrictions need to be abolished

@ElFlippage Жыл бұрын

Missing a crucial #3: frequency. If the bus comes about once an hour, which is the case in the vast majority of american transit systems, it might as well not come at all.

@thedoeguy Жыл бұрын

It's all about connectivity. The Belt Line would connect with the Metro in at least four places. That's crucial in terms of making transit work. As for the idea that ridership goes down when people have to transfer, tell that to Parisians, or Londoners, or New Yorkers. When transfers are simple they INCREASE the accessibility of the whole network.

@uru86 Жыл бұрын

This sounds like rich people wanting a vanity project to appear “more green”. MARTA spending money on bus service is probably much better for low income people than a rail line in the middle of a gentrification zone.

@Hans_Peterson Жыл бұрын

Just about everything this video says against rail you can also say about the the federal interstate system and a lot of state highway systems

@Droxal Жыл бұрын

This video is clearly very biased, generalizing data points to make bad faith arguments, and creating a strawman out of trains to divert attention from the real issues.

@OhNotThat Жыл бұрын

yeah but libertarians and their ilk ABSOLUTELY LOVE the welfare queens of taxpayer funded highways and major road projects for "some reason". It's not any sensible economic argument either, that's the core of their affection. It's opinion, bias and personal preference. They'd rather have 90 lane freeways of expensive taxpayer funded highways clogged with single person individual cars, than some dystopian horror of an efficient train or high frequency bus network. They are an anti-social and anti-human people, who prefer being insulated from "the poors" and strangers in their own little "private utopias" aka their car even if it costs them more and takes 2 hours to commute 1 block since they're all driving. Some of the truly worst solutions these dipshits had that I remember from a forum of these guys was the suggestion to make driving EVEN MORE expensive to reduce congestion on highways. A moment where their true beliefs and intentions "mask off

@ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER Жыл бұрын

guy - "busses are the core of any mass transit system" Tokyo - "nope" im all for more busses, but trains are the best way to move things across land in large amounts. that includes people. People not using rail, or public transportation in general, is a problem with US culture, not a problem with the trains. Walking and biking should be the majority of peoples, main transportation. Public transportation should be peoples second best option( mostly train). Private vehicles should be a last resort. Busses only work so well in the US because its basically a car, and the US already has lots of infastructure built around cars. Trains are still the best mass transit. you dont need to "force people to not own cars"..... you just make public transportation the best option for every one, including ending the stigma that you NEED to own a car, and if you dont you are afialing at life, only losers take public transportation. we only "need" cars, because the us infrastructure is built around it. its the same way a record play "NEEDS" a record, cant play CDs or DVDs, or other discs, because its built around record, not other options.... we didnt force people to not have record players, people just moved on to better things.... its time to move our transportation onto better things.... like walkable cities, and inter city trains.

@gatewaysolo104 Жыл бұрын

You do realize tokyo is nearly the most densely populated location on earth? Much of America is sprawled out amongst suburbs. Not everyone wants to live in a cramped city.

@ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER Жыл бұрын

i live in the US, and i have been to Tokyo....hence why i left my comment. so yes, i can see differences. No, you dont need to live in a "cramped city" to be able to have a public transportation, busses, trains, or otherwise, nor to make public transportation most peoples best option. Sure, density makes it more efficient, but high density is not a requirement..... you can still connect both districs inside cities, as well as connect city to city, with both buses, and trains, and other options. The US is built around cars, because its a product to sell, so the elites can make maximum profits, and exploit the fact that every one will need that product, if society is based around the need for it. Its not because cars are the best way to transport people, cuz they are not the best.. They are not the best for short distances, not the best for long distances..... cars are a pretty bad option for most transportation situations. what you wrote, is called an excuse, its not a logical reason.

@patriot9487 Жыл бұрын

@@gatewaysolo104 Yeah and no one wants to live in one giant crappy sprawled suburb that is just called a city. Denser cities are better, they allow more room for rural areas as they're taller than they are wide. "Cramped" For Tokyo, yes. You want to know what else is cramped? Car traffic in my city in the middle of the US. You look at Amsterdam, a dense city, and it ain't cramped; the Dutch built it *right*

@patriot9487 Жыл бұрын

@@ZOMBIEHEADSHOTKILLER Lolbertarians don't have the mental capacity to understand your argument. Everything is "me, me, me" with those worms

@arroe8386 Жыл бұрын

I struggle to think of a single functioning "mass" transit system which core are busses

@dbackscott Жыл бұрын

An ex coworker was part of the planning process for the Phoenix light rail system. He said the route planning, etc. ultimately was all about keeping big developer “friends” happy and not about what would be effective for the transit needs of Phoenix.

@cardenasr.2898 Жыл бұрын

That is very common, sadly. Real Estate groups profit from the added land value, politicians can boast about hoy they help sustainable projects, meanwhile it doesn't help the public and the tax-payers end up paying the bill

@ianhomerpura8937 Жыл бұрын

Are you sure that he is not a shill to Koch Brothers, who actively lobbied for it to not be extended?

@marksanders768 Жыл бұрын

This all misses the point. The current Atlanta streetcar is so unpopular because it goes absolutely nowhere. It circles a tiny portion of downtown before ducking into under the freeway into the relatively poor Auburn area. That's it. It goes nowhere. If you get on it, you can go a few blocks to places no one wants to be. The skeletal "heavy" rail network (it's light rail, but more on that later) is also quite lacking. It's two and a half lines marketed as four, all of which could be greatly expanded to actually get people to places. But, like, almost all such networks in the US, it's entirely centralized. If you're going anywhere OTHER than downtown, you have to make connections. A circular route is what this and most other cities actually NEED. Chicago's network of trains - every single one of which is also radially centered at downtown - would be massively improved by a belt route. In either case, with only two rail lines and a streetcar with a laughably small route, these trains just don't go very many places. They aren't used because they can't be. They don't go anywhere! What's needed is a network, a system as seen in many European and Asian cities or New York City. Trains that connect to other trains that connect to other trains, so that you can actually move around on the things. Paris has a subway system and a street-level streetcar as well. Both are massively popular, crowded to the gills. Because they're part of a rich, dense network which can get you just about anywhere you want to go. You don't even have to plan it, really - you can just go outside and walk a couple of blocks and will stumble on a Metro station. Then there's this buffoon who says "people don't take the train from one person's house to another person's house". Um... because the train doesn't go there. People take trains wherever they want to go... IF THE TRAIN GOES THERE. On a tangent: Atlanta does not have a heavy-rail network. It has a light-rail network. Go to Chicago. That is heavy-rail and light-rail networks look like.

@MarloSoBalJr Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Someone with common sense rather than nonsense

@siyacer Жыл бұрын

At this point we should just hire the Japanese to build and design our infrastructure

@Myanmartiger921 Жыл бұрын

Chinese can do it for cheaper.

@jasperdelange4748 Жыл бұрын

Go look up not just bikes on KZfaq, it's a great resource on how to make Cities livable.

@JohnSmith-wx9wj Жыл бұрын

@@Myanmartiger921 But they're used to abusing peasants.

@pepps779 Жыл бұрын

@@Myanmartiger921 They also do it shoddier quite often.

@GaleOfPeril Жыл бұрын

@@jasperdelange4748 His methods include quite a bit of government involvement, as his shining example is Holland, which the proud snakes wulnae be too happy about. But then again, if free-market libertarians had had their way in the 60s Holland, it would be just as much of a motorway-lined deadly hellscape now as the land of the free is

@Romir0s Жыл бұрын

You guys need to do a colab with Not Just Bikes and Adam Something on that theme.

@GaleOfPeril Жыл бұрын

Nah, Adam & Reason are prob on each other's kiII-lists at this point, since Adam called American libеrtаrians the f-wоrd

@acctsys Жыл бұрын

Lol, the adversarial discussion might be entertaining.

@fuckinzell Жыл бұрын

I think you guys fundamentally misunderstand the point of transit. It isn’t supposed to be profitable, only functional.

@teeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Жыл бұрын

Public transit is the government throwing away my tax dollars on expensive, bloated projects that fail and do barely anything good. Unsurprisingly, the government ruins everything it touches.

@andrewdescombes6129 Жыл бұрын

10:51 I think he says he likes to be drunk on the belt-line lol.

@jeremiahblake3949 Жыл бұрын

There's bars along some sections, so yeah he was serious

@bradenking111 Жыл бұрын

Weird.. I didn’t see how much of a freeways costs are covered by users in that chart.

@dzielinski06 Жыл бұрын

THAT GUY: " is better than forcing people to give up cars because we make it difficult to drive." LITERALLY EVERYBODY THAT DRIVES: "I have to drive because it's too difficult to use public transit."

@beardedgaming3741 Жыл бұрын

ive lived in a large metro with light rails. i MUCH prefer hte light rail to buses. they were more comfortable to ride, faster, and just more fun. going from area a to area b is all i am after. however - our rail line went from a proposed 4 stops along its nearly 30 miles of route; to well over 25 stops. this removed the convenience for me to where i preferred to just drive, traffic or not, because the added stops made it not possible to run the train at or even near its max speed and each stop was slow, so it really cut the knees out of the efficiency. another issue with our rail system is that in the winter it derails (snow), and year round it hits cars, like A LOT of cars get hit crossing the rail line. i loved being able to go from my housing area (a couple blocks) to a train, and into a business district and sky way my way around the town. then you get buses that can disperse people from main hubs, which we had. you would get off the train and have 12 buses waiting there - going to various other points of hte city. our trains went up to 40mph and were 8 or so cars long. the problem is that we cant do trains in America. land rights and costs of construction make them a TERRIBLE idea in ANY city here in America. it should just never be considered unless something changes where we can build a line like china can - with out paying out for all different owners and waiting decades in court. trains may be a good idea in concept but in reality they cant work in this country. i would use the beltline to bike where i needed to go, maybe thats a better idea. my city that ive moved to, just north of where i usedto live - has started building more bike lanes and last summer i biked to work, to hte movies, to most of my destinations for more than 3/4 of the summers days.

@armstrong9543 Жыл бұрын

When looking at ridership, It's important to distinguish between transit built primarily for commuting from low density suburbs, and transit within dense core cities & first ring suburbs. Areas with more traditional, dense, and mixed land uses retained much higher ridership during the pandemic since they could continue to be used for non-work activities and needs.

@hueyiroquois3839 Жыл бұрын

In Cleveland RTA has buses and light rail. I find that buses work well for short distances, but rail works better for longer trips. More rail service would be nice, but I have no idea how to stop a government run service from sucking.

@hueyiroquois3839 Жыл бұрын

13:26 OMG! You only have to wait 8 minute in some cities? Here, it's 15, 20, or 30, depending on the route.

@locly4692 Жыл бұрын

privatize public transit systems.

@mrgmsrd Жыл бұрын

I took the rapid daily for 3 years in college. It's a decent system if you live near and need to travel along a bus/rail.

@AndrewB552 Жыл бұрын

Public rail works in Europe. Quality varies by city but it definitely is better overall than in the US. There are many private heavy rail operators too, just not private light rail or subways.

@locly4692 Жыл бұрын

@@AndrewB552 have you live their?

@Kyle-qo2oh Жыл бұрын

In Atlanta, it feels like we're trying to run before we can walk. I understand the appeal of a train along the beltline. It's a sexy idea. But very few people actually use the Beltline in its current iteration to commute. In its current state it's a walking trail. And one that's too narrow and didn't even have the forethought to include separated bike lanes. People use it for recreation, not commuting. In fact, I would guess the majority of people you see there actually drove to get there. What makes people think they would suddenly start commuting if a train was added? Once you're OFF the beltline, the city is still a car-centered mess hostile to pedestrians. It's difficult or unpleasant to walk anywhere within half a mile of the trail, outside a few places in Midtown. As a city, I understand that we want to be sexy, but what would be useful for most people? An expensive train serving a very limited area, where it's useless unless your destination is on it exactly? Or buses that come every ten minutes and go in the direction you want, with dedicated lanes and traffic light priority? I live a mile from the park, for example, but as it currently stands, I have to wait 30 minutes for a bus and switch one time. In a worst-case scenario, it's faster for me to walk to the park than take the bus. The current bus system is atrocious and so much of the city's traffic could be alleviated if we created a comprehensive bus system I know that's not what people want to hear, but I know which solution seems to help the most people with far less effort.

@BaresarkSlayne Жыл бұрын

These basically suffer from the same issue that Olympic Stadiums do. Build this big beautiful thing, in the short term it's awesome for the economy, the event ends and then there is this massive thing that is very costly to maintain and no one uses it.

@GaleOfPeril Жыл бұрын

And it wouldn't be a fraction of the issue you describe if such a system was private & non-subsidised from the start.

@chadleach6009 Жыл бұрын

I’d be interested to see what the ridership of rail is in places like Florida and Texas. Here in Miami we have what’s called the bright line and tri rail, two train systems that are always quite popular.

@freecat1278 Жыл бұрын

About 20 years to build the main line, another 20 to do the airport extension. It would have gone a lot faster if they didn't try to use sub-standard concrete.

@chadleach6009 Жыл бұрын

@@freecat1278 True, it helps that it connects not just one part of a city to another but multiple cities along the Atlantic coast, with plans to extend it to the center of the state as well.

@TheLIRRFrenchie... Жыл бұрын

Don't forget the Metrorail

@DTD110865 Жыл бұрын

There's also SunRail in the Orlando Area, and they still haven't extended the trains to the DeLand Amtrak station. And you in Miami had the Metrorail and Metromover before Tri-Rail.

@sugarpuddin Жыл бұрын

Kick back contracts are the life blood of all government's!

@Mark-gx1ee Жыл бұрын

I think some of these street car and rail projects could work in American cities, but density becomes a big problem for ridership. If cities would deregulate their zoning, setback, and other nonsensical regulations, density could increase and ridership could rise. But if we're building streetcars through single family neighborhoods, then of course ridership is going to be low.

@repCanada Жыл бұрын

BRT makes much more sense

@Mark-gx1ee Жыл бұрын

Yes, it could make much more sense. I think San Francisco just opened a BRT lane, and it’s seen some success.

@lawrencejob Жыл бұрын

Not convinced that anyone in this video has ever routinely ridden a bus

@MarloSoBalJr Жыл бұрын

Let alone care about anything outside of sniffing their own armpits

@allenatkins2263 Жыл бұрын

The Simpsons taught me monorail is the way to go!

@ClausWawrzinek Жыл бұрын

I think ReasonTV should make a video about “existing” vs “new” public infrastructure. Looks like the pandemic might have won this one in Atlanta, but the jury is still out…

@tserrhyo Жыл бұрын

Baruch Feigenbaum saying quality matters over mode and it’s like… my guy. Rail mode is higher quality than bus transit? In every way?

@wclifton968gameplaystutorials Жыл бұрын

Why don't they just build a busway (bus+emergency vehicle only road) with service at 5-10min headways during daytime and 20min headways at night because then it'll cost far less money and is much easier to build out branching services. The type of public transport is not the issue, what the issue is, is service frequency and connectivity and building a light-rail line will not fix this since what appears to be proposed is not the Calgary C-Train or the London Dockland's Light Railway (DLR) or anything similar...

@jefffrye1806 Жыл бұрын

Buses do not give train-fans a woody. Plus, bus lines do not provide jobs to the train-fans like train systems do

@wclifton968gameplaystutorials Жыл бұрын

@@jefffrye1806 As for someone from London,GB, I like trains but their proposal in Atlanta is not a good system, it is not like the London Overground or the Dockland's Light Railway or the Calgary C-Train, instead it'll be a failure like the detroit people mover but cost >100x more to construct and transport just as few people. It'd be better if they were to built this route like the "Crawley Fastrak" service in Crawley, Surrey, England which is a guided busway in a largely rural-urban area near "London" Gatwick Airport instead of building an expensive light railway that probably won't be built to a high capacity due to budgetary constraints...

@GaleOfPeril Жыл бұрын

@@jefffrye1806 what makes you think train knobs are the orient for private transit construction? This is one way to dumb down... *cough* popularise a legitimate issue that's not got to do with one mode of transit or another

@JohnSmith-wx9wj Жыл бұрын

@@jefffrye1806 It seems to be a fetish to them.

@seeatlanta1408 Жыл бұрын

Rail better than streetcars. Rail better than buses. Stop trying to build whatever is cheap and build what is better. While yes, home to work ridership has gone down, home to anywhere else has not. Rail works and people will ride. Just go to some of these Marta stations whenever Elton John or The Who or any of these other type entertainers is playing at the Benz, you'll see folks who would normally NEVER EVER ride Marta. The same for Atlanta United and Falcon games. The point is that it's more convenient and easier than driving. The opposite is the reason no one takes public transit to Braves games, even though "technically" you could. We also have the best rail to airport connection in the country. I've seen many of the comments and most get it. If people live around frequent and reliable transit and it actually goes to where they need, then people will ride.

@moxica93 Жыл бұрын

One additional issue is that businesses and families are still moving out of Atlanta into the surrounding suburbs. While there are places like Poncey-Highland popping up here and there, the growth trend is outside of the perimeter. The cities outside Atlanta are building their own areas of entertainment and shopping. That means fewer and fewer riders for the existing services being provided.

@chuck2453 Жыл бұрын

The City of Atlanta's population is higher today than it's ever been and is still growing.

@ab8817 Жыл бұрын

wrong.

@chuck2453 Жыл бұрын

Nope.

@MileageMikeTravels Жыл бұрын

@@chuck2453 True however it's only slightly higher than it was in 1970. Also while the metro area has grown to over 6 million people since then, the City of Atlanta has just in 2020 gotten back to its 1970 population. Meaning almost all to the growth in "Atlanta" is happening in areas outside the city. So today it's a much lower percentage of the population of the Atlanta Metro Area than it used to be. This has weakened Atlanta's importance and influence at the core of the metro area with such a large percentage of the population now lying outside the city limits.

@chuck2453 Жыл бұрын

@@MileageMikeTravels Mike the original comment here says people are leaving the city resulting in lower transit demand. That's false as the city's population is growing and now higher than it's past peak in the 70s. Sure the region is also growing, but that's not really relevant to the original argument which effectively implied "we don't need to build transit because the city is shrinking"

@thumuslol Жыл бұрын

also Atlanta is uniquely well set up to implement rail because its origins as a city literally lie in the fact that it was a intersection for many railways so there are mostly unused rail roads all around atlanta

@justinwolf7490 8 ай бұрын

The belt line is freaking awesome and it’s already massively helping Atlanta with or without the rail but I think just a little train system would be good but we are going to have to see. In America we have never really caught on to rail. We are more of a car/airplane society but I do wish it would change. Great video! Thank you!

@gena1384 Жыл бұрын

Goddamn this really is an expertly crafted anti-rail propaganda video. Strawmanning, deflection, false equivalencies, and more! Well done!

@Mgameing123 Жыл бұрын

This belt line needs to be buildt! Yes there is no destinations other than houses but that is fine! Then invest into services into the city then people can change to the loop line to get the last mile home. People won't mind a change as long the service is frequent then they won't be scared to miss a connection!

@crazydiamond7371 Жыл бұрын

I cannot imagine any MARTA rider that would not prefer and exclusively rail route to one that includes busses. The frequency of busses, not to mention street traffic, turns a 30-minute trip into an 80-minute trip. The Reason editor and correspondent seem clueless about what actual public transit riders would find ideal.

@jirky015 Жыл бұрын

I can imagine it because the reality is people don't consider using public transportation. I think it also depends on where you are going and where you are coming from. I take MARTA from Roswell to the airport and back. I like it. The reasons I do it is because of the money I save and I don't want to sit in traffic. However, it takes about 2 hours plus. Many people might not want to deal with that and would prefer being in their own vehicle which they are in control of. What needs to be reconciled is taking public transit for many is a personal choice, not a necessity.

@nwpgk8166 Жыл бұрын

If politicians are talking about High Speed Rail, then I'm all for it. I'd rather ride a train than a plane, because it's far more comfortable. Unfortunately, our long haul rail system here in the US sucks.

@shivtim Жыл бұрын

What a misinformed (or purposely deceitful) video. The people of Atlanta voted for this. We voted to approve a local sales tax to pay for it. We want it, and we're paying for it.

@chaseforliberty Жыл бұрын

Georgia Libertarian candidate here. I love the walking belt line. I don't want a big slow unneeded street car running through it. The Atlanta Street Car was a waste. Don't do that on steroids.

@nostodmas Жыл бұрын

I lived near the Beltine for six months without a car and used an ebike to get groceries. The big problem is getting people to and from the Beltline, is has become increasingly popular and brought considerable economic growth to the city. But parking around PCM is inadequate, the Whole Foods lot across the street will regularly tow cars when folks leave the lot of the Beltline/PCM. This is why having more transit (including rail) around the Beltline makes sense. Also building denser housing /mixed use development in the area makes sense and is already happening. Simply building additional parking garages would be a waste of space that could be used for more retail and housing. Additional improvements would include more bike protected lanes near the Beltline.

@MrFixItGa Жыл бұрын

The biggest problem with people like this guy is they don't care how much their idea costs to implement or maintain, so long as it meets the narrative for their ideals. Not only does he not care that it's funded by taxpayers, he doesn't care that its funded mostly by people that will never use it. That's exactly how most of these mass-transit people think. They are in love with the idea, not the reality. Facts and statistics don't mean anything to them. All they care about is that it looks good and makes the few people in their circle feel better about their lack of meaningful contribution to society.

@annieno6848 Жыл бұрын

I think there’s some pretty clear gaps in critical analysis here. For example it makes sense that in general transit ridership is down since people are working from home now, and a LOT of transit systems in america are designed for people commuting from the suburbs to the city for work, marta included. If there was somehow an analysis of only people who live in the city and use transit for non-work needs, I think the fall in ridership would be less dramatic. Along the same lines the beltline rail would not suffer the similar lack of ridership because it will be for the people who live and socialize along the beltline and would not suffer the dip in ridership due to work at home rates since it wouldn’t be used for work. Also, the current Atlanta streetcar is just a bad comparison. It’s built in an area with few office buildings (all closed now) and almost zero residences. It’s basically designed to go from one tourist destination to another. It’s completely impractical for any locals to use it. It’s very unfair to compare that streetcar to the beltline one, except as proof that atlanta leaders have no clue what they’re doing.

@515nathaniel Жыл бұрын

Why do so many libertarians have a massive blind spot on roads? Federal taxpayers may be footing part of the bill on a new rail project, but it works exactly the same way with highways. Gas taxes and tolls do not come close to paying for the road network, so why should it be different for transit?

@EdgePitSwing Жыл бұрын

The core issue with all this continues to be the fact that state funding is ON AVERAGE 39% federal money. The neutering of state independence has been going on for decades and it's an embarrassment to the vision of the founding fathers.

@zzz6valvoline Жыл бұрын

This is pretty poor representation of transit in general. Private vehicle infrastructure is definitely the most environmentally and economical expensive mode of transportation. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@EJB3III Жыл бұрын

Any transit is better than more car-dependent sprawl. Especially in the case of extreme examples like Atlanta, Houston, and Kansas City.

@bruceyyyyy Жыл бұрын

This reminds me of the PRT in Morgantown, WV. It's just this mess of a dream of public transit that constantly breaks down and needs more funding.

@Nonamearisto Жыл бұрын

I've ridden the PRT. It's really more of a people mover for WVU than a true mass transit system.

@gendrol259 Жыл бұрын

All infrastructure -- roads especially -- constantly breaks down and needs more funding.

@cdrone4066 Жыл бұрын

Why would you want to live in a more dense area, people are leaving cities because of crime and lack of space. They are moving to places that are less dense.

@edwardhuster8466 Жыл бұрын

The only reason transit was profitable in 19th century and early 20th century, is that they sold housing along 200ft wide rite of ways. This real estate put back into operation of business. By 1920 s all commercial residential area filled in. Then became unprofitable.

@lukebarber9511 Жыл бұрын

If anything, now is the time to build and expand transit when ridership levels are low; that way, transit systems will be ready to cope with the post-covid ridership surge.

@DTD110865 Жыл бұрын

If the crime rate keeps going up on these transit systems, it's going to kill whatever surge you and they are hoping for.

@TheEngineerd Жыл бұрын

For a fair comparison, why not compare rail to the cost to build and maintain roads? Roads aren't free. Parking lots aren't free. And both take up real estate that could have been used for something else.

@grantcivyt Жыл бұрын

Fair point, but the roads actually get used. Also the video isn't arguing for cars, which require parking lots in convenient place. They're arguing that buses are a more effective mass transit solution, and they can be parked much more cheaply.

@JohnSmith-wx9wj Жыл бұрын

We have to have streets and roads no matter what, and parking lots are privately owned and maintained.

@TheEngineerd Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-wx9wj Parking lots do not generate revenue. So a city that makes a business use up a majority of its real estate for parking space is decreasing the amount of revenue the city can make in taxes. Do we need 6 lane highways cutting through cities? Do we need highway-sized lanes?

@TheEngineerd Жыл бұрын

@@grantcivyt And in locations where transit is sanely placed (Japan, Iceland, Germany, etc.) so does transit. And it costs less.

@TheEngineerd Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-wx9wj And do you think business owners simply eat the costs? On the low end, every parking spot is several thousand dollars. And then there's the maintenance. So yes, it's privately built, and customers get to pay for it.

@Basta11 Жыл бұрын

Transit is bad in the USA because the government prohibits density and promotes sprawl. Streetcars and Passenger rail were profitable and ran by private corporations. The government took over urban planning big time with restrictive land use regulations + car centric infrastructure. With sprawl and greatly mandated and subsidized car travel, it’s no wonder these denser modes of transport can’t be more efficient.

@johnwettengel1133 Жыл бұрын

"the streetcar is going to operate at a loss" when's the last time the interstate highway system turned a profit. how much money does the city of Atlanta make from it's streets

@brandonbollwark5970 Жыл бұрын

This video is horrible. The owner of our media company doesn’t like a project so we’re gonna make a whole video about how it’s stupid. Plus they fail to even mention climate change which buses are not a good solution for, even if they are electric, and don’t mention that people don’t actually like taking buses! Buses have less capacity, get stuck in traffic, often have weird and indirect routes, are less handicap accessible, and bounce and rock like crazy. Buses are good for connecting local areas but are not a complete substitute for good mass transit.

@larrydugan1441 Жыл бұрын

In the 3rd world there are numerous private mini busses picking up on wave down and dropping off by request. Very cheap and highly efficient. Almost zero waiting as there is lots of competition.

@jeremiahblake3949 Жыл бұрын

And we have Uber, which is exactly that.

@hermenegildoc3933 Жыл бұрын

@@jeremiahblake3949 uber cannot hold 20 people like bus

@jamesdio2902 Жыл бұрын

I’d love to see a debate between some of the urban planning and rail fanatic KZfaqrs I watch and the Reason’s transit guy. If everyone came prepared, it would be a great conversation

@simonmylak4112 Жыл бұрын

I would kill to see that!🤩

@Maxime_K-G 3 ай бұрын

Are you kidding? When it comes to investing billions into ugly, space-inefficient freeways, taxpayers are happy to foot the bill, but $400m for a tram to connect new developments and dense neighborhoods is considered too expensive? What's the alternative, roads and parking structures? Do people even know how much more those cost? Trams are way more predictable than buses, the fit into the existing green space and room for extra capacity are also much greater. Like, the guys said, the beltline is being built as we speak and the best time to invest is now.

@nickanand8087 Жыл бұрын

Until cars are priced on a per us basis (ie every road has a toll charge), comparing cars vs. rail is an inherently unfair fight. The invisble hand isn't working properly.

@gregs42768 Жыл бұрын

Typical, "Lets force everyone to do what WE want you to do"

@ianhomerpura8937 Жыл бұрын

@@gregs42768 more like, roads are heavily subsidized, and drivers should experience the real cost of driving.

@flyingmonkeydeathsquadronc968 Жыл бұрын

@@ianhomerpura8937 we pay taxes. the real problem with rail is networks are generally poorly set up. why are they using a loop? where are industrial zones? where are the light rail to heavy rail connections? where does the airport fit in to this? why do they run the trains at walking pace?

@gatewaysolo104 Жыл бұрын

Ever heard of the gas tax? Sales tax on vehicles? Registration fees? Not everyone lives in the big city.

@arroe8386 Жыл бұрын

@@gatewaysolo104 You don't actually think that these cover all costs of cars, do you?

@AH-bf4md Жыл бұрын

wow… I am shocked I have so many things that are swirling in my head😅😅 oh my… From my experience, using metro systems all over Europe and trying to use one in the States: Busses just don’t cut it….

@Maxime_K-G 3 ай бұрын

I'm still waiting on the Reason video about how the Atlanta freeway system was a colossal failure & money pit. They're rebuilding it again for billions as we speak because they're just that useless at moving large quantities of people with similar journeys.

@jasoncollier1209 Жыл бұрын

The roads in Atlanta are overwhelmed. We need alternatives outside of roads. The city is only going to grow, more roads or transportation on roads isn't a good solution. We need alternatives for Atlanta that are outside of the roads. The roads aren't the solution.

@gregvassilakos Жыл бұрын

This idea that money should be spent on buses and bike lanes rather than rail is a red herring. Baruch Feigenbaum is willing to argue in favor of such things when he is trying to stop a rail project. If the rail project were not on the table, his libertarian ideas would lead him to argue against spending tax money on buses and bike lanes. Actually, the mask comes off in the last bit of Baruch Feigenbaum's spiel when he talks about Uber as an alternative to buses.

@BaiZhijie Жыл бұрын

And despite its exploitive pay structure, Uber can't even turn a profit! It just seemed like a good company because of the false economy of a bunch of VC funding and low interest rates.

@Peteruspl Жыл бұрын

There's a circular rail route around Berlin's center. Yes, you will frequently ride that and walk down stairs into metro or bus to reach specific destination but it works very well. For USA/Canada I think the first problem is huge reliance on cars, you would probably need to shift this incrementally. First make strict city center very convenient for pedestrians and then slowly expand out after some people switch over. If that train line moves the quality of transit from "abysmal" to "very bad" for a suburbanite living near Atlanta... he's still driving the car. With most public transit you have to win with cars. Better win with them on small area first than loose to them on the area of entire city. Transit has to be much cheaper or more convenient and only then large numbers of people switch over, and then with big ridership you can have frequent buses/trains which makes it even more convenient.

@leonchen551 Жыл бұрын

Living in atlanta for college and seeing all the highways is depressing. If you really want to do anything you need a car. I'm really envoius of other countries transit systems and how livable they are, but America riddled with cars and single family housing zoning :(

@oweneckert8474 Жыл бұрын

3:53 thats the single worst take ever. That’s not even America centric. People in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, d.c. and Chicago all can and do go between houses on transit. Like have you ever left your suburban wasteland once?

@donglunt671 Жыл бұрын

Video could not be more wrong. Live in ATL for a few mo this and you will see just how important and impactful this project is. This video is drawing generalizations from data and not taking into account the major lifestyle shifts and needs of ATL population.

@razkrunk3169 Жыл бұрын

Horrifically biased and under researched video that looks more like a hit piece against public transportation projects.

@SP30305ATL Жыл бұрын

The Atlanta Streetcar is important and impactful? I live in the city of Atlanta, close to a Marta train station and the Beltline. This video wasn't criticising the Beltline as a walking/biking trail, but the idea of adding an expensive Streetcar-like train to it. I used to use Marta, but it pretty much sucks. Uber is cheap enough to avoid Marta most times, and Robotaxis will be an order of magnitude cheaper again. I bet they'll be operating before the five-year expected Beltline Streetcar completion time.

@razkrunk3169 Жыл бұрын

@@SP30305ATL I personally don't believe that robotaxis are a meme and will add even more to Atlanta's horrible traffic.

@louisinese Жыл бұрын

@@SP30305ATL whenever my vehicle is in the shop lyft is my transportation of choice. Walking is hell on the legs in some places.

@ab8817 Жыл бұрын

@@louisinese Georgia does indeed have an obesity problem

@diodora2381 Жыл бұрын

This is why I always hate government interest. It's central planning. It's a few "experts" deciding what's best for everyone, but they don't actually know what's best for everyone and since government is not a risk-reward system, they're slow to change. Companies only do things that are profitable, so if you privatize instead of nationalize, then they will try their best to make sure people switch because they have an incentive to do so. It's not just some grand vision.

@gregs42768 Жыл бұрын

100% correct

@julianpowers594 Жыл бұрын

The free market always works except when it doesn’t.

@diodora2381 Жыл бұрын

@@julianpowers594 The government never works except when it... oh wait nevermind

@patriot9487 Жыл бұрын

@@diodora2381 enjoy that copium?

@diodora2381 Жыл бұрын

@@patriot9487 "eNjOy DaT cOpIuM?", yes I do, but what I enjoy more is when people, you know, actually make a reply that means anything. Enjoy coping out of saying anything of substance because it's obvious you don't have anything to real say.

@mattbosley3531 Жыл бұрын

People who don't have cars rely on buses because that's all there is! If you give them trains, or trams, or trolleys, and run them frequently, they'll much prefer to ride them over a bus. All these people who talk about transit being unsuccessful are people who don't ride public transit and have probably never ridden it in their lives. They know nothing.

@Nclux Жыл бұрын

The posturing about these "high" development costs for transit projects is disingenuous. This is really underplaying how insidious car dependency is, how much it is only ever remedied at the surface level. If the externalities of driving really were priced in, the discussion about transit project costs would be a lot more cut and dry.

@gregvassilakos Жыл бұрын

If you are trying to sell the idea that transit is a bad investment, showing Baruch Feigenbaum while he was talking was a bad idea. He has the classic physique of a person whose only exercise is walking across a parking lot to their car. People who use transit tend to have a lower BMI than the general population just from having to walk a few blocks at either end of their commute. The Belt Line bike and pedestrian path is doing even more for the general health of nearby residents.

@BaiZhijie Жыл бұрын

You know if you build sidewalks and bike paths along all of our roads to make America more accessible via walking or cycling, would the reduction in health care costs exceed the cost of that new infrastructure? Its an interesting economic question, I don't know but it might just turn our that active-mobility infrastructure is "free" from a society-wide perspective.

@gregvassilakos Жыл бұрын

@@BaiZhijie The study has been done. "Cost-benefit-analyses (CBA) are widely used to assess transport projects. Comparing various CBA frameworks, this paper concludes that the range of parameters considered in EU transport CBA is limited. A comprehensive list of criteria is presented, and unit costs identified. These are used to calculate the external and private cost of automobility, cycling and walking in the European Union. Results suggest that each kilometer driven by car incurs an external cost of €0.11, while cycling and walking represent benefits of €0.18 and €0.37 per kilometer. Extrapolated to the total number of passenger kilometers driven, cycled or walked in the European Union, the cost of automobility is about €500 billion per year. Due to positive health effects, cycling is an external benefit worth €24 billion per year and walking €66 billion per year. CBA frameworks in the EU should be widened to better include the full range of externalities, and, where feasible, be used comparatively to better understand the consequences of different transport investment decisions." Stefan Gössling, Andy Choid, Kaely Dekker, & Daniel Metzler, "The Social Cost of Automobility, Cycling and Walking in the European Union", Ecological Economics 158 (2019) 65-74.

@BaiZhijie Жыл бұрын

@@gregvassilakosThank you very much, this is a very helpful paper to know about. I had seen those numbers floating around somewhere in various urbanist articles, but I didn't know the source. Much obliged my friend!

@trevorthefoamer220 Жыл бұрын

Ok there are many statements in this video that are just flat out wrong. 1: Busways are not easier to maintain than rail. Its a road. The heavier the vehicle,the more damage it causes to the road, and usually has to be repaired or repaved every couple of years. For railroads, they can last for decades, not to mention it uses less material than a standard street lane. And guess what, it costs less to maintain it. 2: Well streetcars and Light Rail might be more expensive, but thats only the initial cost. When it comes for maintenance…well its way cheaper for Light Rail. And on top of that it creates more land value along the route than BRT 3: Yes, Streetcars are slow in America. Which is mainly because we are too stupid to know how to build it properly. They arent built in dedicated lanes, which decreases speed, and they are forced to follow American traffic laws like any other car. Unlike in other countries like France, Netherlands and Germany. 4: Ive seen a couple comments already saying that “we dont have the population density for rail lines like this” which is the dumbest excuse for transit proposals like this. Other countries have towns that are smaller than the majority of the suburbs, in terms of population. That have high quality functional rail transit and tram lines. 5: If you think the Interstate System is more beneficial than rail investments…you might need to see a doctor. Highways are expensive as hell, as i said before, it costs more to build and maintain a road than it is to build a railway. Driving in general is horrible for your health both mentally and physically. Railroads are more economical than highways as they generate more money. Where as highways don’t, despite toll booths. And one crucial thing…”tick tock, tick tock” thats the global warming clock, and it gets louder and louder. The louder it gets, the closer we are to the entire planet going haywire. Cars are the leading cause of carbon emissions, Where as trains are one of the cleanest modes. Also battery cars aren’t as good as you think they are, bunch of mining…not good at all. In conclusion, this project is well needed as it will bring mixed use development around the belt, as generates more money than car centric suburbia. Crazy right. It will also improve CO2 Emissions. Not to mention loop lines are way better than you think. So don’t let other urbanists see this video, or they will crap their pants.

@GianniKnowsBest Жыл бұрын

With more ppl moving to the suburbs I think Marta should focus on bringing rail to the suburbs, uniting downtown to where ppl live.

@mr.jamster8414 Жыл бұрын

"say the bus comes every 5 minutes and not every 8 minutes" "the bus is the most important part of a mass transit system" America has buses that actually work, and y'all complain about being too suburban.

@louisinese Жыл бұрын

Are your dog's legs that color?

@captainjohnh9405 Жыл бұрын

For $2.5 billion would purchase about 4000 buses. MARTA currently has 550 buses. So MARTA could increase about 7 times for the cost of one single rail line. But I can hear it now, "Buses aren't nice and green like electric trains!" Okay, if you want electric, then buy electric buses.

@MER1978 Жыл бұрын

There are way more reasons to pick rail over buses.. you don't need to replace trains every 12 years for starters. How about the labour costs per ride.. the largest MARTA bus can move 82 people max.. vs the largest train configuration.. 768 people. That isn't a minor labour cost difference over time.

@captainjohnh9405 Жыл бұрын

@@MER1978 Okay, I'll bite. How long does a train last? What is the operating cost per seat mile? What are those same figures for a bus? And can you site where you found those numbers? (I found them for city buses, but not trains. In buses, the median is about ten cents per seat mile assuming an average speed of 20 mph.) I guess you missed the part of the video that talked about how low the ridership of trains was. Just how often do 768 people from one part of town want to get to the same destination? A 747 typically holds 400-450 passengers, and you don't find them flooding the skies in the US. Sure, a train with 700 people could make intermediate stops, but when was the last time you flew New York to California and loved stopping in Pittsburgh, Chicago, Kansas City, and Las Vegas along the way? With the same 2.5 billion, MARTA could buy 40,000 passenger vans, and practically offer door to door service.

@flyingmonkeydeathsquadronc968 Жыл бұрын

Buy trolley busses battery buses suck

@captainjohnh9405 Жыл бұрын

I meant electric buses powered by overhead line... like the ones that have existed in San Fransisco for at least 40 years. Adding overhead lines is pretty cheap. And they could even add a small battery (five mile range) that could be used when switching from one route to another

@MER1978 Жыл бұрын

@@captainjohnh9405 And the extremely obvious massive capacity / labour costs difference? If electric trolley buses were so obviously better why wouldn't that already exist basically everywhere?

@alexmaccity Жыл бұрын

Atlanta's traffic sucks 24/7

@deanwilson9852 Жыл бұрын

Hence, the need for mass transportation.

@alexmaccity Жыл бұрын

@@deanwilson9852 hopefully they figure it out. This video raises the concerns with all the different methods being proposed. I have only ever passed by on the interstate. I've always heard early morning or middle of the night is the best time to plan your travels, but I have heard other people say it don't matter.

@yankee8570 Жыл бұрын

It seems like Mr. Feigenbaum's ideas about public transit are very outdated, and follow the typical North American style of outskirts-to-downtown public transit. The fact that the beltline is circular and its "Point B" isn't downtown, doesn't make it inherently a bad idea. Not every public transit trip is a commuter going to and from work.

@Droxal Жыл бұрын

This documentary is full of biases, especially with data points that are taken out of context. For example they say "People who can't afford cars rely on busses far more then trains". While true, they do not point out the systemic factors for this, mainly that poorer people may not live near a train or that there are many more bus lines then train lines in all of America which would skew the numbers. As well as this, they are happy to point out the positives of Rapid Bus Lines without acknowledging the failure of many rapid bus line projects across North America. The real topic that should be at hand is Americas focus on low density living and its continued subsidizing of the road networks. The only way to improve public transit (whether busses or trains) is to increase density, improve urban form, and to actually fund frequent public transportation. Creating strawman arguments about busses vs trains really feels like a way to distract from the real issues at hand that hurt public transport.