Valve addressed this in todays update!

watched, this honestly feels very accurate to my experience where something feel off about shoot but the hit reg is great

Watched. This would explain why people say sprays feel off. Your spot in the spray would be slightly ahead of where you see yourself in the animation/when you think you started shooting. Sub-tick seems pretty awesome so far and I wouldn't be surprised to see it become a new gaming norm. CS has one of the most nit-picky communities around. It's good that sub-tick is starting here because we'll probably find most every bug and quirk of it before years end.

The absolute dedication of CS players to examine stuff like this that we all notice and break it down to make it explainable for us and fixable for Valve will never cease to amaze me. It really makes me super hopeful for the final product of CS2. Watched. Edit: Can you guys please stop arguing about Valorant in the replies? We get it, it took a lot from CS. But it has nothing to do with this comment or video. If you've nothing nice or constructive to say about it, let it be. We don't need to bring it up all the time to prove that we are "better'. Because if anything, it achieves the opposite for us.

i think a good fix for this issue would be to change the firing animations from being server sided to being client sided instead, it would make more sense and wouldnt cause the issue of it being out of sync because since firing would be client sided it doesnt rely on a tick, it just relies on input from your mouse

Just wanna make this clear again - Take this information with a grain of salt. There's always room for more clarity and maybe even some corrections down the line. None of this is confirmed by Valve. However, CS2's sub tick mechanics are proven to work already so that's good news in itself.

Watched. Subtick really made the game far more precise from a technical standpoint, but it's gonna be hard for all of these visual discrepancies resulting from some things being subtick and some things being tickrate-tied to be resolved.

Watched. Thank you for this analysis, I hope you have a wonderful Fall!!

Saw some videos on this Delay topic but wasn't really satisfied with some of the explanations, so I'm glad you stepped in the clear things up. This actually makes sense, ty

This is what i feel when play cs2. I knew something were off but cant describe more better then your video. TQ

Great video! If this is truly the case of why it feels different, I am at least glad that if I click a head it will hit

This would explain many oddities about shooting like the sprays not connecting even they are the same as in go or not getting kills because you stopped shooting after the right amount of shots but actually shot one bullet short of a kill. I suspect this is not only tied to visuals but audio cues too. You often don't hear defuse or plant sounds in cs2 but other players do. Could also may be be a sync problem between tick and subtick.

This is GREAT, its important to have a person like you making these issues more visible to the community so Valve can work faster, thank you maxim

Thanks for all the guidance Maximuh! Well, CS 2 still has a long way to go, but all this is so promising. We hope for the best 🙏

Watched, great vid! Seems to me like solving this "problem" without reverting back to what we have in csgo would be difficult, but I'm hopeful they can fix it anyway!

watched, want to say thankyou for the ongoing content re cs2

Thank you so much for keeping us up to date with all the developments. Watched.

Im confused as to why the shooting animation would be tied to the tick rate in the 1st place. Only thing I can imagine is that as the server still only updates the game state every tick that they want to make sure that a firing animation is only played if you actually had a chance to shoot (aka make sure you weren't dead on another players screen)

This video perfectly explains what we've all been experiencing without knowing what was happening, this makes perfect sense

This is a really great video, it really shows how tickrate works and how CSGO and CS2 registrer the clicks/bullets! Nice job MrMaxim

For some reason this serverside presicion only seems to apply to onetaps, pistols/deagle that seem really op in cs2. At the same time u can spray at someone almost point blank and get 2 hits out of 10 bullets, Sometimes server decides to be precise other times exactly the opposite. Hope they figure it out before the official release.

Watched and loved it! Great research by everyone involved, and thank you for compiling, distilling, furthering the research, and spreading the word! :) I have some thoughts on this and would like to share them to see if any sound applicable / realistic. So, to clarify my understanding of subtick and its relation to this situation, as MrMaxim explains in the video, the subtick is tracking the exact sub-second moment that the shot is registered on the client side, and waiting for the next server-tick to register that information. This delay, from my understanding (could be wrong, of course), applies to both the registration of the shot (ie, server registers and displays player dead if you shot while they were in your crosshair), as well as the shot animation. I believe this is exemplified in the way the enemy character continues to walk, even on client side, while it waits to receive confirmation that there are no conflicting actions that happened before that millisecond that could negate it. POSSIBLE SOLUTION: I suggest merely switching the animations / sounds of gunfire to a client side action, similar to the way the sounds of switching your weapons is neither broadcasted to or from the server. I believe this option is likely something valve has already or is currently still considering, and maybe they were just waiting for the cs2 server infrastructure and interp settings to be at a more reliable place before doing this. It's hard to speculate on that side of things, however, I do believe that switching it to client side is a good long term solution. No matter how you slice it, with the subtick system being the route, there will be delay or backtraces on some end, to account for conflicting outcomes etc, but their are similar drawbacks to the old system as well, so im fine with them working to iron this one out. Having the sound on the client side would remove the audio / visual delay that feels so disjarring for the shots. Everyone on the server will still get aggregated events for all subtick events that happen on other clients, since, to our current knowledge of the system, it's still registering and transmitting the subtick information back and forth to the clients via 64 ticks. Hopefully there are no obstacles that make this solution unfeasible. Please let me know if you have any thoughts on this :) I appreciate that valve is taking the time to work on the server related settings / defaults for in game (interp updates recently), as well as work out kinks in the finer details of the game / server to get it to be polished

watched. i really like that you go in depth with this.

Nice research man. It seems about right. Now I am able to understand the sub-tick concept much clearer than before (depending upon the accuracy of this research). Let's hope Valve has some solution to this. It will be amazing if Valve figures out a way to tackle this. 🤞

this is mind blowing how much effort they are putting to make this game better im so excited for the full release btw watched

This video explained very well, I didn't understand the sub tick system well by watching other videos, nice explaination!

Watched and again your content makes me understand CS2 better after playing it, GGs

the amount of effort from the community to discover this is the reasons why i love valve's games

Watched. I guess thats why spraying is difficult in cs2. We control the recoil based on the animations of the bullets being fired. If animation doesnt line up it could mean the actual spray might even be whole bullet ahead of the animation based on which we compensate.

Great videos, glad I’m subbed.

Watched, and this is a great explanation! Thanks for this ❤️

Watched. Wonderfully well explained, top production quality. Having both actions in sync would be great.

Watched. Does this mean the firing animation is rendered server-side? If so; is it a possible solution to make the animation client-side? You would see the animation on "click" which would fix the weird feeling when shooting. They just have to sync the weapon handling on tick-basis to make it competitively viable and prevent issues with guns showing to enemies while it doesnt look that way on you own screen.

Watched. I read the post and knew this video was gonna be about it. The dedication to research is beautiful.

watched, thanks for the great content! i used to watch when you were banana, good to see you are still around making good videos!

nice explanation, it seems like subtick will change everything

watched. This makes a lot of sense. I always felt like the hit reg is so much better and the sprays are the same but thought that the odd feeling comes from the viewmodel values. Turns out it's not the the viewmodels but the animations but they are displayed via the viewmodels, so I was kind of in the right direction. I suppose it's not as easy a fix as to trigger the animation client sided immediately, otherwise Valve would have done it already months ago before the limited test. Let's just hope someone really smart comes up with a good solution.

watched!! Great video as always!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the shooting animation was instantaneous and done locally, wouldn't there be a delay before the enemy is killed (since this would be calculated server side, and on the next tick)? Maybe it would be small enough to not really notice.

Watched. This is why from day 1 I knew that this would be the CS we were all waiting for Subtick on it’s own makes so much sense. Base 64 tick sounds awful, but if moving and especially shooting is registered in an instant, then there’s essentially no major downside. It’s only an issue if Valve can’t sync the shooting animations and shot registration somehow

watched! great vid, very informational, thanks :))

thanks for making vids man. youre super on point and direct in these and i love that. youre a super easy video to send to a confused friend abt how stuff works thanks maxim

Watched , good info love the vids man thx

That is also the reason why we see more responsiveness in 128 ticks as compared to 64 tick in the sub tick system. If valve optimises it then 64 tick vs 128 tick may not be an argument in the near future.

watched, i think your explanation is on point . I am more worried about cheater situation , can you make video about that (what has been promised and what to expect from valve in this matter) ? thanks for good content , keep up the good work !!!

watched, Thank you so much my friend🙃 That was the clearest explanation I've heard yet 👍

watched pog thanks for the very informative video mr maxim, been watching you ever since 2015 and its really cool to see you still in this CS space. much love

Thanks for showing it❤ watched it till the end

I don't think people will ever stop complaining unless they get 128-tick servers coz it has been wired in our minds that it is the only solution. More apparent from Valorant and faceit's servers.

Thanks for the video, Max! Now can you do a video on why CS2 spray feels weird as well? Because it felt inconsistent and needs to pull mouse down more compare to CSGO

Just watched it and this explains why my flicky awp playstyle just somehow, sometimes, just misses. Good video.

Watched! Another quality video. This makes a lot of sense, maybe a reason spraying feels off as the animation is probably off from when actually firing by the difference between the moment you click and the next tick.

watched, this actually makes a lot of sense as to why pistols feel inconsistent and smgs feel more consistent - slower firerate guns will make this effect more noticable, whereas higher firerate guns can almost mask the fact there's a slight disconnect

good explanation glad to see sub tick works ,but on another note i saw an in depth vid the other day saying cs2 also has a wildly variable input lag issue also constantly goiing from 5ms up to 30 and constantly changing making it harder to be consistent than csgo which had a much lower variance and was much more steady

As a gamedev, I highly doubt that animations are triggered server-side, especially with a sub-tick system that allows to shoot at any time.

Watched. I have hope that these issues will be resolved and cs2 will be even bigger success than csgo

Watched. Makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explainer, been racking my brains tryna figure out why gunplay felt so weird!

watched, idk how to say this, but ffs i love your videos! vice man with real sources of how things work! i live for this game and you just give me real pristine content about it! thank you !

i agree with ropz, just give us the 128 tick cuz it feels like a sweet spot and feels like shooting isnt THAT off

Watched, so this confirms that sub tick > 128 tick. Everyone just having a placebo on faceit 😂

It’s an easy fix from Valve, they already have a method to find when you shot via the sub tick system. They just now have to change the animation to play when that happens

Watched! Great stuff

Watched Yeah i feel like the visual factor is just that final brick in the wall that needs to be added/fixed in order for the foundation of CS2 to be perfect. That, and better performance on CPUs post 2013. Its also interesting to see how many players, including myself, can somehow feel even the slightest delay/offset in the timings of everything too.

There's a guy on youtube that did a circle flick test on csgo and cs2 with all guns and he found that if you are moving your mouse when shooting, the shot goes first before the mouse crosshair. So if you do a 360 and shoot and stop immediately, for that he used a bind and script in cs2, but if you do that, then the shot bullet hole will appear first and the crosshair will exceed it moving forward. This video explains why that happens.

Watched. Thank you for the explanation, makes a lot of sence now 👍

insane video, your explanations are perfect

I honestly think the trade-off is worth it, you can get used to the animations eventually, while you can't do anything about the hit reg being imperfect on any tick rate.

I think you explained completely correct but it’s weird since if you would play the CSGO example 10 times there is a chance that you would hit several shots because the tick is happening like 0.5 ms after your shot thus making it more inconsistent than CS2 where you always hit the shot only the animation is delayed. I’m curious to see what solution Valve comes up with but otherwise I think we just have to get used to it.

watched, I like your videos good work!

totally agree, what i also really dont like is shooting after being hit with a nade. idk why but it just feels wrong to shoot without any type of noise to go with the shot (even if you where to only hear your own shots dampened)

It just feels horrible. I don't even think that fixing the firing animation would resolve the issue as the enemy's player model would still move until the next tick and I think that's the thing that throws me off the most personally

Why are they so stubborn with their 64 ticks ? They are working on a new source engine making the game unavailable for potatoe pc. If you have a decent pc (literally a pc that can run cs2 with 60+ fps) there is a great chance that 128 tick doesn’t impact your computer. 64 tick was arguable when you could play with a toaster but now ?

Watched. Great analyze!!! gj.

I never comment on videos but props to you man, this video was the only one that actually explained whats going on.

Honestly just do 128 why fucking complicate

Watched, great content as usual

watched, im loving these type of content

I wonder if you can use previous tick shoot timing and use it to delay animation to make delay consistent

This makes me wonder - is the "follow recoil" crosshair tied to the animation (64 tick) or does it update with the mouse click (subtick)?

Watched. Really interesting info Maxim! Hopefully they can fix this by syncronizing the animation somehow. Hitreg def feels better so once this is fixed it will feel much more solid.

watched. Thanks for the great insight this makes a lot of sense.

I think, hilariously, the simplest answer would be, well, to have the client side firing animation be, well, instant. Sure, your team mates will see your firing tick synced, but you yourself will have the muzzle flash and visuals the frame you click, improving the feel of the firing response. after all, the firing animation is there to help you really 'feel' how the gun acts. this might even help with non-tick-synced fire rates.

watched, really nice video explanation Maxim 👍

Watched. This truly feels like an accurate description as to why shooting doesn’t quite feel the same. It may look the same, but many of us with the muscle memory of CSGO can just feel that something is off. Off-topic, but I wonder if this is the same case with movement? My friends and I describe it as sometimes it feels like our characters are “sliding on ice.”

Thanks for explaining the whole process behind the sub tick. I did notice on dm while playing that i was landing more headshots than usual, it felt a lot better on my very first dm ive played.

Watched & loved the info

Great effort. Watched till end.

Great explanation, I had a feeling it had to do with how the game processes the info on ur screen

can really feel this when throwing nades

watched, thank you mr maxim!

Watched. Thank you for sharing this. I didn't notice anything until I started using the awp and flicking. Def thought I was going crazy lol

Watched and thank you!

Watched. Now there is another question in my mind, where is the player when on the server when my shot registers. This is totally by feel but there are many times I connect to a server and it feels like I am 6 or 8 frames behind the action that is registered on my screen. Then there are times when everything feels like its hitting. I can even use a deagle in cs2 (sometimes) and in csgo it felt like firing blanks. I'm not a consistent player, but I am certain that the consistency is at least partially network or server side and if I could figure it out it would make the experience more enjoyable or at least help me improve my mechanics. Is it possible the client and server ticks get desynched?

Watched and Thanks!

watched :) really great video! i hope devs can see this vid

The best video on this topic. Really well explained. Watched

I think sub tick is better but sometimes there is a noticeable delay before i shoot my gun. The place you notice the most is shooting inferno's bells in a certain pattern repeating it. This is how you feel the most of the delay.

watched and indeed we should watch yo every videos UPTIL the very end as they’re well explanatory))

Watched! This is explanation is great!

that explains a lot...cz was so confused ...couldnt understand what is going on.. cz my muscle memory for the recoil pattern is fine and all what confused me is the shots landing on the wrong location or wrong time but its the animation.. so is there a code or setting to turn it off and play only on the muscle memory and try to see it is better??