I enjoyed this piece very much. I am the ex owner of 2 Fiats, 7 Alfa Romeo's, 3 Lancia's and 1 Maserati. Also I raced a 2000GTV in the Trans Europe Trophy. Needless to say I love Italian cars and it is so sad to see their decline. My next car will doubtlessly be an Alfa Romeo Giulia. And a big middle finger to SUV's.

As a current owner of a 2019 Guilia Q4 here in the US and having owned multiple FIATs and a Lancia (a Beta Coupe bought new in 1981) I can say that here the dealer and service networks are pretty abysmal and have been for years. Whereas BMW and Mercedes provide stand alone dealer and service facilities (although often owned by conglomerates) Alfa/FIAT make do with being just another brand sold and serviced at a few Chrysler/Jeep/Ram “superstores”. So you get nil personal service, minimal brand or model (much less heritage) knowledge. Service, beyond routine, is either “best guess” or “we have to contact district office for help”. And as far as brand advertising, it’s virtually non-existent. Great discussion. Thanks.

With the rise of South Korea and China, Italy has bigger issues to tackle in car making. Like Italy, we British have many legendary cars and brands, but they are no longer British, or have gone completely. The industry keeps evolving. Great video!

As an Italian, I love the fact that every italian word is pronounced correctly.

A significant turning point in Fiats fortunes was the internal fight between Cesare Romiti and Vittorio Ghidella. The later was a cars man pur sang and a visionary and had turned Fiat and Lancia around in the eighties.When Ghidella lost the internal fight and left the Fiat Group it was a huge loss which they never recovered from.

Alfa Romeo Stelvio, is amazing. I’ve one’d 2018 and currently 2021 I must say, it’s true Italian in every way, the design outside and inside is outstanding,the vehicle really stands out among the others. Build quality is superb, I haven’t any mechanical or any other problems with it. Power and most importantly handling has no match among the other in the class. Bravo Alfa Romeo, excellent job. All roads heading to Rome. Italian means number one.

It is an incredible decline. Fiat produced fantastic small cars in the 80s and they managed to release so many attractive models in the 90s too. But then seemed to hit a brick wall and these days it is rare to see any Italian brands on the road except the 500.

As a fiat lancia mechanic of the 80/90s and lancia wrc mechanic based in Ireland I truly love this brand. From my first cars 127 128 to super 85 ritmo 4 my uno turbos and also my very own integrale I then moved to German cars a decade ago. 1 1/2 years ago I got a tjet punto as a non runner and a 500 also as well as a ducat campervan. I have fallen in love again with the brand and refuse to sell any of my fiat's. I have also spent many weeks in Italy over the last 8 years. Thank you for this video.

Sounds like a very plausible analysis Giacomo ... thoroughly enjoyed it! (Also you reminded me of the time in 1996 when I was thoroughly out-accellerated in my 2 liter turbo V6 GTV coupe (with its 220 or so HP) by a BMW M3 with its 321 HP ....)

Great story Jake. I always liked Fiats, Alfas and Lancias in Australia but they just never 'clicked'. Great getting the story from the where it all happened.

When a whole industry is just one company, it shouldn't come as a surprise when it fails horribly.

From a Modena born-citizen and ex-FIAT employer I would like to address why Ferrari (and Lamborghini or Pagani) are (in my opinion) still shining and the general Fiat brands are striving. Much has to do with a general laziness and short-termism so popular in the Italian culture in which people often try to get "the same results as their neighbors, working less" (thus demonstrating their cleverness) This led, as you said, the Agnelli Family to make factories in poorly industrialized (but highly unionized) Italian areas just because they were incentivized by the government with subsidies or the quality problems encountered because they had to save money at all costs, not thinking of the possible nefarious consequences on the end customers. Again...for me.. Marchionne's cost reduction policies of sharing platforms with other manufacturers by introducing models without a strong commercial identity. Now, why did Ferrari start to succeed again during the Montezemolo era? Because it did not take shortcuts: neither in quality nor in costs... which were popular in the 80s under Fiat direction. Lamborghini (after Audi purchase): same thing... and Pagani? same thing.. Maserati is a complete different story, often stifled by its mistress Ferrari, who at the same time feared its potential. The supercar brands also managed to live because people moved from other cities in order to go to work for there... such much was the passion... For Fiat? Given the ridiculous corporate leadership you went there if you couldn't find anywhere else or if you were paid more than the market average. Marchionne main merit was the Chrysler deal, the problem was that while he was in charge Fiat's corporate culture changed very little.

Hello Jack, hugely interesting and informative video......as usual. Thanks for putting all the time and research in for our enjoyment. By the way, I love the new Stelvio, superb in and out.

The Lancia Thema, was offered with a V8 made by Ferrari! Now if we are talking about halo cars of the era, the 8.32 was the king of all. I am not an Italian of origin, but an Italian car enthusiast. I think they can produce absolutely pieces of art in cars, no matter the category and right after the success, stop production of it and go back to making nonsense. Why? Well maybe they wouldn't be Italian if they didn't! :) Great content my friend keep it going!

Well done Jack, another interesting and informative vid, look forward to many more 👍👍

Very informative video. Learned a lot and you explained everything very clearly. Will be checking out more of your videos 👍

I was in Italy last week and was amazed at the number of Japanese and Korean vehicles there, not to mention French and German cars which is a little more to be expected.

Great video as always Jack, as a lover of all things Italian including all my Italian in laws I share your passion for the Italian car industry. I'm a huge fan of the Lampredi Fiat twin cam and the Busso V6. Back in the 70s Lancia suffered some huge blows in the UK market with the well known rust issues but really by now they should be back in the UK as a creditable luxury brand, the UK is a huge market for luxury cars but sadly Lancia now have nothing to offer. It's a pretty sad state currently for Fiat, Alfa and Lancia....they all produced some fantastic offerings in the 60s, 70s and 80s....Giulia, Giulietta, GTV, Panda, 124, 132, 131 Mirafiori sport, 850 coupe, 2300 coupe, 600, 127, 130, Fulvia, Beta coupe, Beta Spider, Gamma, Delta HF turbo and integrale...the list goes on. Today, apart from the 500, Panda, Stelvio and Giulia most people wouldn't even know any other offerings from Fiat or Alfa. It's a pretty sad state of affairs.

That steering wheel in the background looks like a work of art..I’ve only just subscribed..I do wish I had found your channel earlier..Very interesting channel..Thank you

Fab presentation chap very good viewing Jack. Well done sir. (Si frorm Bath)

Having worked entirely in the tooling industry up until retirement and having dealt with Italian mould toolmakers and variously visiting them etc., I was always impressed with their engineering knowledge, and quality. Italian cars were often a bit different, and this was attractive, one thinks of the 246GT, ask anyone what their favourite design feature is on the car, and there will be many opinions. The best bit for me is the tiny door handle, beautiful in looks and operation, pure Italian. However, competing with German design, quality and longevity is and continues to be difficult for most European manufacturers.

I bought in 1982 a brand new FIAT 124 Spyder in cherry red that was absolutely gorgeous. However, I had to sell it two years later at about half the price that I originally bought it for because it was a piece of junk - very pretty junk, that is. The main problem was that the oil pump got damaged a couple of times and it had to be towed away to the shop, and had major and costly repairs done, plus it had several issues with electrical gremlins. So, I got fun of for having bought a Fix It Again, Tony. I almost bought, a few years back a “Fiata” 124 Spyder but I hesitated in doing so because I feared of having similar results as my 1982 124. Bottom line, if FIAT doesn’t improve its quality control of all its vehicles, then it’s going to continue to suffer dismal sales in the future. And it will take FIAT a long time of consistent improvement in quality control in order for its bad perception to turn around.

Really enjoyed that Jack! Really interesting stuff buddy 👍

This was a very well thought out presentation.

I really liked this video, it's the best way to describe what happened in Italy about the cars and their brand factory. Cheers from Italy! P.s. I own a '89 Alfa Romeo 75 turbo America

Hi, Giaccomo! Very interesting story indeed! You provided a lot of interesting information and theories about crisis in Italian car production. To be honest, I personally expected a few words on Lancia Thesis, as a sort of swan's song of desperate attempt to reestablish higher class sales results and thus achieve some competing match with French and German niche of luxury limos. This was a good sign of vitality of Italian way of thinking about beauty, performance, comfort and originality. A proof about what I've just said is the fact that several car producers, such as Kia, Toyota or Mercedes Benz also offered a few similar models very soon that resembled design in details of both interier and exterier, although I think that nothing can really match genuine Italian sense for beauty for the sight. As far as I'm informed, Lancia sold some 17.000 pieces of Thesis worldwide and it had shown some difficulties with maintainance since (expensive parts, lack of spare supply), but it is a car concept developed on proven solid chasis, with durable powerful famous motors and very original look that combines retro and extravagant feelings at first glance. Not to mention legendary Lybra with 1.9 diesel engines still running through our streets after more than 20 years than it was released. Unfortunately, Fiat failed to take advantage from the historic position of spreading technology eastward in socialist countries, opening production lines in Yugoslavia, Russia, Poland... Maybe it was due to philosophy you have mentioned, available inexpensive vehicle for many pockets in daily lives of ordinary people, and therefore it seems that today everyone wants to see himself as a potential buyer of a higher class car. I see nothing bad in thinking of making available cars, but modern standards of quality and maintainance must be achieved, especially if competing with Asian car industry. German cars are very appreciated everywhere for their specifications, quality control, solid structure and serious approach to creation, but they lack joy de vivre - French sense for comfort and Italian sense for external beauty. In the very essence of Italian lifestyle there is a need for making life nice and easy, I assume it is the matter of climate, countryside and Mediterranean tradition from the ancient times, you should certainly know more on that topic. Saluti di Croatia!

Brilliant video, would watch a longer version, with a quick picture of every car mentioned

Thank god a honest, direct and fact-based analysis. Content like this is almost nostalgical in a click-bait era. You've earned a subscription! I honestly hope that with the Chrysler and PSA knowledge, Fiat gets back to it's former glory -at least in reputation. Here in Brazil they only got development-independent in 2012, and since then there is a nice variety of products which I hope makes sense for other markets. If you have some time, search about Fiat Toro, Argo, Pulse and most recently, the Fiat Fastback. The last three share the same platform but appeal to quite different markets. Another thing to consider is that Fiat (along with PSA) were one of the few car makers that were almost inexistent in US and Canada, so they had to struggle so much more to keep up with the big players in the global market production numbers. Now I really hope that they achieve success. I've dealt with the Fiat factory here in Brazil a couple of times and you can see the passion and good will in every aspect of the products they develop.

I would also add, when the workforce of a company has an attitude of, "We're too big to fail; the government will bail us out", as I think happened at one point, it makes it pretty difficult to improve efficiency.

Thanks Jack! Sad story, but not as bad as the UK's fall from nationally owned companies!🙏🙏 Ref Fiat, you forgot to mention;- Pride - Leading to bad decisions & political fallout. Competition - Asian competitors taking over small car sales. Dealer Network - In UK, the Alfa network at least didn't have a good reputation for years. Was this the same in other countries? Fingers crossed for Italian brands in the future!

Excellent history lesson. Thank you!

As an retired enthusiast I appreciated this extended discussion. Our family owned many Alfas but are totally disappointed at what happened since the 80's. It is shocking that any Company can make so many consecutive wrong decisions and still survive. That >2000l tax law should have aided them lately if their designs were directed towards producing more economical vehicles with better reliability etc. Anyway our family ended up driving Toyota, BMW, Honda and Subaru and Porsche with nothing to complain. Love your research. Wish Italy can get their act together but for me it will be too little too late.

I have owned a fiat 500, a Cinquecento, Alfa Romeo 156 and a 147 and currently a Fiat Punto Evo. My dad however has gone through, two Fiat 600, two Fiat 127, a Fiat 1283p, 2 ritmos, a Fiat regatta, a Alfa Romeo 33, 146, 147. Italian cars have been around ever since i was born. I absolutely love them.

I had an Alfasud Sprint 1.5 and later a GTV 2.0 in the 80s and 90s . Both were a hoot to drive , specialy the rearwheeldrive GTV ! But tremendous repaircosts and finaly horrible rust hass completely ended my lovestory with Alfa Romeo . As The Who once sang : " won't be fooled again " .

Simply the best Great presentation ! Respect from Romania 🇷🇴

Good insight mate, appreciate the time putting this talk together. In the name of sustainability, there has to be a reduction in output, & let's bring that tax back on large engines!

As a former Alfa 146-owner with many fond memories of that car, it's really sad to see the current state of the Italian car industry. Though a very capable business man, I tend to credit that to Sergio Marchionne. In 2005 Alfa and Fiat still had quite a broad line-up of attractive and competitive cars, with the promise of the new 500 and 8C competizione and though already a victim of an ill-considered strategy, there were still chances to make Lancia great again. Why they decided to not make a production version out of the fulvia coupé-concept for example was beyond my comprehension. After 2007 it seems Marchionne invested all the Fiat money in the takeover of Chrysler and new models that came few and far between were mostly not what the market was calling for at that moment. I mean, though maybe a pleasant car, what was the purpose of the Alfa 4C, when really there should have been a decent 159-successor? With a sportwagon version of that, that even the giulia, when released far too late, didn't bring with it? Why did Alfa leave the giulietta lingering for that long without at least a thorough facelift? Who decided that to not release a new Fiat punto would be a good idea? But yeah, the lack of SUVs and to deny that the future of cars is increasingly electric, is maybe the most obvious sign of not being in sync with the times. And there were also all those ambitious plans for future models which became kind of a joke because you increasingly knew the majority of the models in them wouldn't make it into production. Perhaps all of this was in light to make FCA as interesting/profitable as possible for a takeover by a bigger company, but with such a strategy (or lack thereoff) over such a long period of time, they were very actively ruining their brands. To the point that you can raise question marks on even their future as Stellantis-brands in these now very challenging times. It saddens me to say that I find it very doubtful that any of the 3 brands will ever regain something of the status they had in the 1950s to 80s. So, more than any quality issue, I would say odd strategies in the 2005-'20-period and the lack of appealing new models in that time are the prime reason for the decline of specifically the Fiat brands. With apologies for this long rant. 🙂

In my family we owned many Fiats and Lancias in the 70s and 80s. All rusted quicker then neighbours cars, and lost resale value quicker, but we liked the Italian styling. Sad that Stellantis has given us the Corsa based on the 208, the Astra based on the 308 and various SUV models. Surely the Grande Punto (which was co-developed with the 2004 era Corsa) could be designed and put back on sale with minimal cost - it’s just a re-skin. Same with current Tipo. Put a different skin over the 308 running gear. Fiat still sells well in South America, but those cars are not what European buyers are looking for.

I can't stop staring at the two beautiful Tamiya legends at the back such a History channel sub for sure 👌

Great analysis @number27 :)

Sad to see Fiat and Alfa lose their way. Maybe time to really show off the Italian design flair, the modern car sure needs some inspiration in design terms.

It is a real shame, the Italians produce cars full of passion and emotion.

Thank you very much for making this video. I enjoyed it a lot and I share the sentiment regarding FIAT’s sinful and very costly neglecting of Lancia.

Excellent presentation.

Fascinating subject. I had a passion for Alfa Romeos and Lancias in the 1980s. Owning GTVs, Suds, Monte Carlo and Fulvia. But then they went ugly. The Alfa Romeo 75 being a good example. And in general, they forgot their key selling points: handling, performance and style at an affordable price. Yes, they needed to improve on the rust, reliability and build quality, but it was forgetting their USP which did it for them.

We used to have a Lancia Beta coupe 1800 when I was 5years old. I still miss this car. Although I was too young, and cince then we had numerous other cars, this little coupe is in my heart. I really love italian cars, although we never had one since then. It is a very strange thing about them. Their "spirit". I really do hope Lancia gets better. By the way, your accent doesn't show you are italian, except one thing: The way you pronounce "Alfa Romeo" :) Greeding from Athens!

I liked your story KZfaq bombarded me with adds . I’ve got Alf way through. Thanks any way

Great video, very informative 👍😀

We have two Stelvios (we are in the US), moved away from the Audis... So far (3 year old cars) they are more reliable than the Audi’s or the Land Rovers we had… They look good, they have enough power, they have great interiors… Liked and subscribed!

I remember reading that the Doblo was the fastest depreciating car in the UK back in 2019. Went on Holiday to Spain that year and all the car hire companies had loads of these, obviously bought at huge discount from Fiat. A van with windows was my lasting impression...

Giacomo - Bravo, very well researched and commented. I love your videos. Your passion is worn by your expressive remarks as well as your delivery of them to us...... I believe you covered 95% of why the non-exotic Italian car industry fell from grace. There are three additional areas I believe contributed to the eventual demise: 1) one was clearly the short sighted philosophy practiced by Italian politicians that was based on punitive governance. As the Italian economy was growing rapidly in the 50s and '60s, the governing politicians thought best to punish economic success instead of rewarding the endeavors of the middle class that was moving up the economic ladder. 2) we mustn't forget the deleterious and stifling effect the "sindacati" had on the Italian worker as well as the Italian industrial output. It is my belief that this is the primary reason that the assembly line in Poland was more efficient than the all of the six plants in Italy. As is clearly documented, these powerful labor unions, who were allied with left-leaning political parties (very fashionable in Europe at the time) while paying bribes to the Christian-Democrats in power were, essentially the legitimate arm of the "Camorra." Here, you have the perfect combination to guarantee mediocrity, and finally, 3) the missed opportunities of the late '60s and 'early '70s by neglecting to recognizing the most important market in the world at the time. The Japanese brands understood that export to America was essential for growth and the bottom line. I know first hand how dreadful these products were. Then, with focused determination and in short order, they dominated the econo segment to later conquer the lux segment as well - as evidenced by the Lexus brand. The challenge for Stellantis, as you referenced, is that they have zero experience in the premium segment. Maser is well positioned with models in various segments but AR and Lancia are horribly positioned. I sincerely hope they can pull it off....If they can't, I can envision Stellantis selling off these two brands that they determine cannot be resuscitated. Poveri noi !

Hi Jack - please can you move that Tamiya red Rough Rider (or Buggy Champ) as it looks like it’s going to fall off the cabinet! 😅. Great vid as always too!

Not mentioning light weight commercial vehicles such as Doblò and Fiorino and some other Van models of FIAT, is just hearing the half of the issue. On the other hand Fiat turned itself on commercial vehicles and earned a good market share in markets such as Turkey and middle east. In the end it was not enough to save their place on the sales figure but still was a fresh blood to some degree to company’s financial management. Thanks for the video though it was enlightening 😉👍

I have been to Rome as a kid in 1977 and still remember those beautiful Italian cars, Lancias and all. 2021 it was sad to see that there are hardly any left

Thank you, I really enjoyed your analysis on the decline of the Italian auto industry. These are difficult times now for any manufacturer as fuel prices rise and the way forward seems to be hybrid at a minimum or all full electric vehicles. Any corporate planning mistake on design, production costs could be as fatal as making electric typewriters at the dawn of personal computers.

Great information and a bit of a wake up call to all us Italian car lover's, or it could mean are old Italian metal is going to sky rocket. Let's hope as I have a 156 jtd sport wagon 😎

Very interesting, and I agree on all points! I've always been a fan of Alfa Romeo and it frustrates me that they threw away the big potential they had with the new Giulia. I can't understand why they didn't offer a wider range of versions, for example a 2-door coupe and a 5-door Sportswagon. Or why not a detuned V6-engine for a bit lower price than the Q-version. I think that's the trick - you need to offer lots of different versions on the same technical platform, to get sales volume. However, you didn't mention Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati! They seem to be doing reasonably well, so there is still hope for the Italian sportscars! :)

Agree with most of what you said in the video Jack, but the way you described the Lampredi inline four was a bit... cold. It is after all, one of the most produced inline four engines in carmaker history. And it was used for over thirty years (albeit with a number of improvements) in everything from dinky little city cars to infamous rally slayers like the 037 and the Integrale.

Great article Jack. I've been a FIAT man since 1979, with a FIAT 125. FIATs have always been our main car and play cars. I have owned 12 FIATS and been let down once with a breakdown. Keep the maintenance up and they are fine. Rattly but fine. Sadly, in NZ, there are now only a couple of versions of the 500 from FIAT and the Stelvio and glorious Giulia from AR. My last new FIAT was a Multipla JTD on 2008 - I still have it and it has been fantastically reliable, quirky, and economical. I, currently, also have a two owner 1974 128SL Coupe and 1998 20V Turbo Coupe. My latest car is, however, a Cupra Formentor which is brilliant. It has some Italianness courtesy of Spain. Whenever I see, or read, a review of a FIAT, Alfa Romeo or Lancia the 'journalist' inevitably prefaces their articles with trashy rust talk from over 40 years ago. They just can't seem to get past it, despite many of the 'journalists' not even being alive when it was news. It's lazy reporting - not worthy of being called journalism. Imagine if every Mercedes or Toyota review dragged up the rust issues from last century, or every Audi or Land Rover review revisited their previous reliability issues. Keep up the good work, it's a great channel.

Your presentation on prolific rust caused by cars on production line left in the weather during prolific strikes was quite enlightening thanks you

Have always wondered why Italian cars worked like they did over the years. I remember Fiat and Alfa Romeo who sold cars in my Scandinavian country some decades ago but today nearly is gone because they never worked properly from brand new and finally they had to close down their selling here when nobody wanted to buy them anymore. Incredible and makes you wonder about this terrible bad quality in our modern days who just made people scream in fear.Driving two Citroens today and that from a brand who once built cars who sometimes worked and sometimes didnt but today build great cars with great quality and you see more and more of them on the roads who makes you wonder when one brand repair their reputation to glory but others just let it fall to the ground stone dead.And when Italy had high taxes on every engine over 2 liter i remember when my country delivered 2 liters Volvo S 60 and S80 with Turbo to Italy. A engine who couldnt sell over here and in most other countries when its original was a 5 cylinder 2.5 Turbo engine. Thanks for the video. 👍

Oh boy Jack. Most of us feel the same pain you do. I live (if you have followed my ramblings) in Germany. The state of the FIAT dealer network is dire. Mostly I am met with disinterest, rudeness and apathy added to confusion. My local dealer is disinterested and apathetic. So I move my little money elsewhere in protest. The mother ship seems to be without direction itself. So how can it direct its representatives? Annulling contracts with long established dealers as well as crap dealers just adds to the fluid state of confusion. Loads of questions raised but precious little in the way of a reply from mother. A bottle of red adds to the rose tint of the past... Mamma mia. Yours Mike.

Great analysis.

Superb video! We had a rental Lancia Thema in 1989 and that car was a beauty, so luxurious and comfortable. People were admiring it in our road trip in France. My cousins had the beautiful Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 Lusso (1993), it was a pretty thirsty beast. Even though we joke in Finland that Italian cars wont start (its partly true, especially for Fiat) when the temperature drops below 0, there is something magical about Italian car manufacturers. Perhaps the soviet & russian steel played a big role in Fiat’s rust issues. Dont know from where they buy their steel now but noticed that they have a contract with ArcelorMittal. Also they probably use better coatings - mainly paint - and more use of galvanized steel, which is coated with rust-resistant zinc on both sides. Vehicles have also been redesigned without pockets for mud to gather, and rust-prone seams were removed.

Think you summed it up pretty well. The lack of efficiency in the Italian plants I guess is a major problem, much like the issues BL had in the 70s which basically killed the British motor industry. Which leads me on, how about a similar kind of vlog on the British motor industry.

Agree with your analysis. Great video. Some other comments I would add are that one big problem for Alfa especially, is its continually hammered by the motoring press, always chucking dirt on the brand that its unreliable. I've driven them for over 25 years and they drive great and have never let me down. Whereas VW have produced so much rubbish over the years, I know a few owners who needed their engines rebuilding after shockingly low mileages, but it all gets hushed up. Something is not quite honest in this market. But as with anything if you have success you can control the market with your money and influence. Marchionne also made many poorly judged decisions. 100% agree that it was madness to throw away the greatest rally back catalogue in the business (Lancia) and position it as Fiat's luxury brand. He did this with truely dismal rebadged Chryslers which were already far from market leading products. The Kamal SUV debuted in Geneva in 2003, if my memory serves me right, and remained a concept. As you rightly said a massive mistake. Marchionne had no feel for car products, he was just a business man who could cut big $ deals, but had no clue how to move the brands / group forward.

nice analysis. I am the great fan of italian cars and u 100 %% right

Interesting video Jack. I suggest a couple of books, which might complement the view or address a few of the open points you mention: Sergio Marchionne by T.Ebhardt, and Fiat: the secrets of an epoch by G.Garuzzo.

My experience, try getting a non-petrolhead to consider buying an Alfa and then do the same except with a Skoda, who also used to suffer with that reliability reputational problem and there is the main reason. The exception may be Fiat due to the re-imaged 500 as people love the style and see them as cheaper to maintain, regardless of that being actually true or not.

Thanks for a very interesting summary of the Italian car industry Jack, although I've never had an Italian car, only an Italian Moto Guzzi motorbike. It had its own flaws but I loved it. The only Italian cars that my college friends were interest, many years ago, were the exotics. Looking forward to more great videos Regards, Bob M.

Nice Tamiya Rough Rider and Super Champ and Alfa 1750 wheel hub... sorry got distracted...back to your very informative horror story. I have had several wonderful older Italian cars and still kept a few but the horror story continues.

I like these, you should do more historical features.

Giacomo, molto interessante !! I think one of the major problems with the old FCA group was Marchionnne (I made some money on their shares) and his desire to not invest in models. With Stellantis, Tavares is more model focused (and if you look at the numbers, Stellantis sells more electric cars in Europe than VW). Tavares is giving each brand 10 years to come back, and I think its a good strategy. Marchionne, as you said, was not really interested in developing electric technology. Yet, at CRF (Centro Ricerca Fiat), I drove about 20 yrs ago a hydrogen powered car with an electric motor. And the Giorgio platform (Giulia and Stelvio) was delayed for years, and hence its now obselete. Alfa lost many buyers. In my area, Alfa's 156 was a great seller. Maserati which sold as many as 50K vehicles per annum with an old Mercedes platform, never received the investment it needed. And as a local friend, who was a big shooter in Rover finance and later BMW finance, said, if you don't invest in models, you lose market share and disappear.

I always saw Italian cars as cars made mainly for Italians - niche market vehicles with a dubious reputation but with a certain design flair, and the same can be said for French cars as well I think.

Hey Jack, back in 1966 I "swapped" my Morris 1100 for a six cylinder Fiat 1800, it was a great car, but oy, the rust! Then I got hold of a 1963 Fiat 2300 that was a big "step up" from my 1800 but again, oy, the rust. A Mk3 Fiat 1500 followed but yet again, a lovely great performing car, (for it's day), prematurely destroyed by rust. So their early cars were good and the earliest were great performing six cylinder cars (1800 & 2300, the 1500 was a four cyl), but oy the rust!! My old mechanic used to say, F-irst, I-n, A-ll, T-ests, but he was Italian, great report Jack, keep 'em coming.

Lancia Thema did have a halo model in the 1980s with a not small engine. It was the 8.32 with the Ferrari based engine but it was front wheel drive etc and not really on par with BMW etc handling so it was not just about the engine size/number of cylinders.

Great summary. Giacomo , you missed or at least barely touched on the reason for the decline. The absurd Italian labor laws combined with their Byzantine tax system drove foreign car manufacturers to anywhere but Italy. I lived in Milan for two years and saw that the Italians were extremely proud of their domestic cars , engineering and style. However, for the reasons mentioned, the Italian car market is going to see tougher and tougher times ahead.

great analysis, hope a better future for the Italian car industry... and something is on the oven. Please check what are doing now in the Motor Valley (Emilia Romagna). Not Lamborghini, Maserati or Ferrari, but Pagani and in particular my favorite: DALLARA! True piece of art cars!

Yes I found this very interesting. I am just surprised you didn't mention David Camerons comment about Nissans factory in the North East that produced " more cars per year than the whole of the Italian car industry " . I am currently the proud owner of a Vauxhall Vectra CDTI which you might be aware has the JTD engine developed jointly by Fiat and GM. Its an absolute beauty !! Unlike some much more modern brands no one can tell , as a driver or passenger is it petrol or Diesel. Also , on one trip ,I managed 579 miles on exactly 9 gallons with three of us plus luggage. I have kept the car longer than any other vehicle I have ever owned because I like it so much. True, the inlet manifold did fail when I first got the car which was repaired under warranty but I have since covered 121000 miles in it without a hiccup.

The main problem with the Giulia is that you couldn't get hold of one in non geological times. As for the Merging between PSA and Fiat, I guess it aims at rationalizing development of new models and be competitive with Volkswagen which has 4 brands at minimum building on the same chassis. The Thema/Croma/Saab9000 has been one of the most sound success for Fiat after all and so is the current 500/Wrangler project. As Fiat completely abandoned the medium-high sector of the car market, leaving it to Alfa Romeo and culling Lancia, there is very little synergy when it comes to chassis development and here PSA can help. Europe is dropping fast in cars production and Fiat has been building in Turkey Poland and Brazil for many years. That is the reason why Italy has very low build quotes compared to Turkey: it all comes to manpower costs. For the same reason German car makers switched most of their production in Spain and Hungary. Trump's USA trade barriers also hit Europe production badly The only cars currently in production in Italy are the 500 serie, the Alfa Romeo and the Jeep Wrangler with some more car being built by Maserati. Another BIG problem with Fiat is the need for staying below a certain footprint in carbon emissions of their cars in the B and C sector which providing very small profit margins: that's one of the reasons why Fiat got rid of Ferrari for example. So far Fiat has been paying Tesla Billions every years for "Green Tokens" which allowed the brand to keep pumping out new cars but it's not very profitable. In this light the merging with PSA makes a lot of sense as Peugeot had invested heavily in electrics in the last years. In a few years the EU will not allow petrol engine cars to be sold, so, to keep investing there, makes no sense. Germany is up for a very bad wake up, as most of their luxury brands rely on large multi piston petrol engines. It was able to "afford" paying Tesla because of the high profit margin it get from the luxury sector, but it's not a winning strategy in the long run. So far only BMW has moved tentative steps into electrification but the brand main market is 99% petrol, while the new Fiat 500 is only available as electric. Diesel is also phasing out and the Iveco is a big chunk of the Fiat Group. Things have to change, but a drop in car production right now is not significant or concerning, as every technology we currently have on the shelves will be phased out in a couple of years so will not be able to pay for itself if they are invested in. I think (hope) Marchionne had a very long term strategy for survival of the Stellantis group, which will take years to come to fruition. I guess Fiat is just waiting for the electric market to take momentum and be ready to invest there when the right moment comes: right now, the target is to get rid as much as possible of productions based on old technologies that will soon become completely unusable. the EU cannot compete with developing market when it comes to production costs, unless it spearhead technologies not readily or cheaply available, so I think the new Hydrogen and Electric market will bring a gust of fresh air for the European car makers. Tesla had a headstart because of Californian pollution laws, but it took almost 10 years before gaining some quotas outside the west coast: when the new EU rules over carbon emissions will become cogent, those industries ready to to capitalize on that will be the ones to thrive.

It has indeed been a sad slippery and frustrating slide into obsolescence. Alfa relying on its heritage and goodwill as a brand is almost becoming a joke now, and it breaks my heart as I still happily drive my 2017 Giulietta.

Great content , I can't even imagine what an Italian car factory is like , stereotypes spring to mind , although I don't know if they got the logistics sorted but I seen what Alpha Romeo used to do to make cars and it was shipping cars the other end of the country to have paint , then somewhere else to have other things done on another documentry ., Car industry is like peak and troughs ,look at the British car industry , it's down to boutique ,and niche markets now , all the rest of our car industry has sold out , or foreign manufacturers .

Good points all around. Fifteen years ago, my father in law gave me a ride in Turin (the home of FIAT) in his FIAT 600 with under 10k miles. We hit a speed bump and the back bumper fell off. I picked it up and put it in the back seat. He was so embarrassed that he went and bought a second Toyota. In Turin today, I see a lot of Jeeps. I belong to Stellantis's car sharing service and regularly drive the 500 electrics and find them quite nice. When we looked for a car, my Italian wife refused to get a FIAT as the only one she likes is the 500. We ended up with a Toyota. BTW, I still think the Giugiaro designed Punto looks good even today. So clean.

Great video, agree with all the points made. Looks like Fiat has quite a mountain to climb unfortunately. We had both a 127 and a 128 when I was a teenager in the 1980s, and although reliability was not great we still loved them. Somewhere along the line the cars lost a certain something that made them special and stand out from the crowd. In terms of the current range there is really nothing that appeals to me. The quality of the dealer network seems to be another issue in dire need of attention, at least here in the UK. The dealers were not good even 40 years ago and expectations are massively higher now. Forget the average Germans, the quality/reliability and standards of customer support Fiat need to be aiming for are those of Japanese/Korean manufacturers like Toyota and Kia. If you are not going to aim high, what is the point?

I think another problem is that FIAT and Alfa have been notoriously slow at upgrading their product; in an era of the tech loving disposable consumer, FIAT kept flogging the 500 platform dead horse, with its out of date infotainment, ageing chassis and barely changing appearance. It became stagnant; the Abarth brand was even worse, at a time when hot hatches were all the rage, FIAT offered the lukewarm 595 at a hefty price, then continued to con the consumer with parts bin 'specials' at huge premiums; the current Abarth is essentially the same car that was released in 2008, with minimal facelift. Alfa was the same, at one point only offering three models in its line up. The Giulia, as good as it is, came too late, when focus was already shifting to EV, a big performance saloon wasn't flavour of the month. Their Stelvio and Tonale might be the best chance of boosting sales, but arriving late into a market saturated with other SUV's it's going to be tough for them.

I really liked this video you made some really great points, but what I've noticed over perhaps 30 years is that when a new fiat, alfa or lancia are reviewed it is always with negative under tones, even tv programs can't mention the 3 without mentioning rust, the fact is every car manufacturer suffered from rust in the 70s and 80s, yet only Italian cars which are now among the best are not allowed forget it. Thanks for a great video.

Dear Jack, you did passionately depicted the painful Fiat slow decline story perfectly. Indeed Mr. Agnelli, Mr. Romiti and at last Mr.Marchionne were the absolute masters of disasters for the brand. They were indifferent to car production raise rather than well-done prestigious models issue and any industrial improvement but barely focussed onto own short-term cashflows matters and personal returns and incomes in reveues, thus consciently killed One by One all the group brands they managed to put their dirty hands on. Poor Lancia, poor Alfaromeo Who slowly died helplessly, cause of greath managing incompetence and thin private interests.

This video is both informative and interestingI - thank you for sharing your perspectives. I think a big miss for Fiat was its long absence from the American market. It is a big country with a competitive automotive market. However, it's all about the Americans, Japanese and Germanns. I think Fiat (and its various brands) would have a shot by positioning their uniqueness. Americans love most things Italian (food, Ferraris, wine, clothes) so it's not a hard sell. But unlike Europe, we love our SUVs, trucks, and big engines. You need to show up with unique messaging and products that differentiate Italian cars from everyone else e.g. styling, performance, relative rarity, etc. And promote the heck out of them while addressing the outdated misconceptions of Italian cars, e.g., reliability, no dealers near potential buyers, etc.

I completely agree with you. When a plane crashes the cause is never just one but a combination of events, even independent from each other. There are some other reasons that contribute to this disaster (my congratualation for the opening image very apt). Managing of the Alfa Romeo brand is an other big one: fiat destroyed everything in Italy that can be recognized as Alfa Romeo. The Portello site was cancelled, Arese too (big fighting for many years against the project to cancel the Museo di Arese too), Balocco track changed the name and the modern factory near Napoli changed too the title. There isn't anything, any building, any center, any office that can be called "Alfa Romeo". The same for Lancia, Autobianchi and Abarth. the arrogance and envy of the mediocre fiat managers meant that the fiat behaved like the Huns who invaded Italy in ancient times and sprinkled salt on the fields so that nothing could grow there. I cite this example to describe the attitude held by those who were economically (and politically) stronger but unfortunately not so good at making cars and being far-sighted. I'm sad too. Very sad. Not only about Italy but also about car world

Always wanted an Integrale! Iconic motor. Grazie per la storia, Giacomo.

Amazing ❤️ Big hug 🤗 from an Italian 🇮🇹

The Thema did have the prv 2.8 v6 and latterly a version of the busso 3.0...and the 8.32 of course.

The SAAB 600 was a re-badged Lancia Delta. It was badged as a SAAB-LANCIA 600. A weird combination, but it must have been because of the joint venture during the mid 80's and SAAB most likely needed a smallish car for revenue. It was only available in 1500cc form.

I'm so happy the algorithm brought me to your channel, subscribed, hit the bell icon all that. I really enjoyed this video, even if the subject is a bit depressing. I'm not a longtime follower of the brand, but after The Grand Tour's mini Audi Vs Lancia documentary, it sparked the interest in me in knowing more about the brand and it's all the more heartbreaking to see just how neglected that brand is. I've been to Italy only once for our honeymoon (2013) and the only Lancias I recall seeing where ugly looking, and just seemingly a copy of an existing FIAT model. I wonder how much the "don't cannibalize" sales bit also affected them from really going into SUVs, considering they have the Jeep brand, but unless I'm mistaken, the Jeep brand in Europe isn't really as ubiquitous as it is in the US, and I doubt most of their SUV models would fit on European roads and the only option that comes to mind that was marketed more as a world car, the Cherokee (and also the Dodge Journey) seems to have gotten the same issues of the rest of Chryslers/Dodge non pickup line up in that it sold for longer than it needed to without any real updates. A slightly beefed up FIAT Panda might have been successful with the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point it's probably a missed opportunity. Living in Mexico I recall seeing excitedly Alfa enter the market with some quite pretty small/medium hatchbacks to compete with VAG's VW and SEAT models, but while SEAT is now morphed into Cupra selling CUVs the Alfas here all but disappeared, and never did they make me regret buying a Mazdaspeed 3 (aka Mazda 3 MPS) over them. In any case, looking forward to more videos from you. Grazie.

I'm of Italian heritage but born elsewhere and every time I visit I am amazed how "ordinary" Italian cars look! The place that set the standard for amazing looking cars must be hiring designers with a weird idea of beauty. Thank God for the Giulia and Stelvio!

Ciao Giacomo! Thanks for a very interesting video. I always loved the way Italian cars drove but was a bit intimidated by their reputation. My father had a Fiorino, which was a fun little car but it felt really poorly made. Having also lived in Italy I am very sympathetic to the trouble they are having and hope that the recovery is close. The newer Alfas seem to be promising, let's see... However I need to point out that Fiat has had an SUV in its line-up, which is the 500x, don't know why it wasn't mentioned. I guess it didn't sell in numbers. Looking forward to seeing more from your channel. Im bocca al lupo 😉

I sure hope that the Italian car market is able to come back. Because in the past Italian cars of been amazing. I love my Giulia it's the best car I've ever owned

Very interesting subject explained very clearly and makes a lot of sense…

ottima analisi , saluti da Modena ..... ciaooooo 😀

One thing for certain, Italy has the greatest National Anthem in the world, always puts a smile on my face. Was that Enzo on his bike in the video clip? :)