@@z3dz 2AR chads rise up

With a turbo...not ITB's. If they think that, they've retarded more than their timing.

they made stock fbo power with big mods... What is your point ?

vtec bros coping so hard rn

@@CL9k24a3I think he’s saying that a lot of the K20 guys were expecting 250+ but were completely surprised.

just to make the comment more visible

Nailed it

My guy 💯

This is actually big advice

Just to make the comment more visible #2

I know you guys will figure it out. Every build takes time. Thank you for the years of uploads and content. Gavin, uk.

What does a std k20 produce on that dyno? Comparing to other dynojet inflated numbers isnt the best.

To paraphrase the great Obi Wan: "You will soon be back, and with greater numbers".

My face actual lights up when I see a new Gears and Gasoline video

@@garagecedric fbo on that dyno is around 200 I believe

ex primary lengths and intake lengths are critical on japanese twincams when you are building performance engines like yours

And if Andy is going to build headers for it bigger isn't always better, keep your primary tubes down in diameter to keep the exhaust velocity up.... 1 3/4" stepped up to 1 7/8" and I would think about 24" long to the collector 4-1

Garage 4AGE channel does a myriad of testing.

I mean ITB was just for sake ITBs. Didn't even make sense to make a street daily s2k with itbs

i was about to say this

That’s it right there. I’m so much less interested in the next ultra fast KZfaq build. That’s cool too don’t get me wrong. But as a dude who drives a 350Z, I’m much less interested in annihilating the 1/4 mile or high speed highway runs as I am a well developed dynamic streetcar build. There’s just more character there lol.

I can’t believe they didn’t have Ear Pro on, my ears would be ringing all day

I think it sounded bad, honestly. VTEC crack with a proper intake manifold and short ram intake sounds way better, in my opinion. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@@I_know_what_im_talking_about And that's how someone should state their opinion, some people say everyone else is wrong and dumb whereas what they think is just the best/only answer. Mad respect to you 👍

@@battldogeurmum698 - 😎 much appreciated bro.

@@I_know_what_im_talking_about I think longer stacks sound better there is a different in sound depending on length and such plus its in a metal garage so yeah its gonna be some earrape

He is, he's good people.

NPC comment

His knowledge is insane and every video I've seen him in, you can tell he is honest and a hard worker. Not a lot of people are like that anymore.

❤ thank you guys!

That's actually what came with the car, but I think they'll keep it

Man, I can't believe people actually like that thing. Not a good shape for me at all.

Its worth adjusting the intake runner length for sure- But hed be chasing a single digit for HP here. He more than likely is just being limited by his cams. Theyre drag cartels "street" cams with only 254/250 duration. Theyre mild aimed at meaking peak power by 8k rpms.

Longer pipes are better for low end torque. The longer the pipe the longer the travel time. If anything they would need to be shorter, but most likely a cam duration issue.

​@chippyjohn1 Most ITB kits far cars are limited by packaging, and so are shorter than they should be. In order to not hit the shock tower or require a hole in the hood, ITBs for the K usually have super short runners like a sport bike. Most tests I've seen of trumpet length favor the longest ones you can possibly fit. The ITB kit for NC Miatas uses curved trumpets facing forward, something like 2 feet of length from.the valve to the trumpet end, and that kit makes 225bhp at 7,500 with pretty minimal non-VTEC cams. Ben's ITBs are less than half that length, which says to me that they want like 14,000rpm. Obviously the cams and the exhaust will have gone to sleep long before that ever happens. But the point is, all this stuff is dependent on resonance and timing. An engine like this has to be treated like a 2-stroke. Bulk flow is secondary to resonance timing. The exhaust and the intake must match the RPM target, and the cams must not get in their way. Most importantly, you have to at least know what you're working with in terms of length and resonance timing. Simplistic ideas like "good" or "big" have little value at 10k rpm.

No replacement for displacement

I’m very impressed & envious of that Camry lump

with these power levels, that mr2 has a serious shot.

@@RandyAugustus that mr2 will definitely win right now, 700lbs lighter is huuuge

Saturday and Wednesday uploads got us creaming huh

Fr they did not wait lol

Impatient nation 🤣

@@cheesepizza87 i blame my adhd 🤣

Not always the case, the higher rpm the less time air has to get into the engine, this is for N.A. engines. This reduces hp and causes it to fall.

I agree. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve only seen ITBs outperform across the power range with higher (13.5 and up) compression and some sort of race fuel like m1. They sound cool though…

Yeah that’s what I was thinking, take off the itb and do what they have been troubleshooting with and stick some of the OEM stock variables back on like they did with the exhaust header. Run it with the OEM spec then one by one swap bolt on mods and see what’s improving the numbers

Hmm, I think they need to do some basic engine maths (inlet velocity, exhaust velocity and the way that's matched to the cam profiles etc) before just trying random parts! The maths (or math in American English) will show guidelines of the cam profile required, inlet runner diameter and length, exhaust runner diameter and length etc required, before then dialling it more precisely with trial and error on the dyno. No race team would try to design an engine without doing the maths on it. 🙂

It's either the ITB's or I saw someone else make a pretty good case for cams.

@@ziglol "Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve only seen ITBs outperform across the power range with higher (13.5 and up) compression and some sort of race fuel like m1" Obviously this is a 4age- but kzfaq.info/get/bejne/otR3qayX3NC9mac.html This is a great video, and great channel to watch. guy has been "Testing" different things on the dyno for ages, some of them are funny things, but many are serious as he looks to improve his engine. This video is a good "milestone" video, showing how the engine responds to various popular changes, and then his extreme ones as hes pushed the limits. of note in this video: He goes from various stock manifolds, to an ITB set up, and shows the power change. Its not insignificant, and hes not running crazy compression- 10.3:1. The itbs arent the problem with this guys set up. Though the trumpet length may be worth checking into (Fun plug in again: that guy i linked has one with him testing numerous length runners for the ITBs to find the ideal length for his engine), the biggest restriction is more than likely, his cams. Hes running 003.2 "Street" cams from drag cartel. Like the name implies- theyre street cams, and rated to make peak power by 8k rpms. This is undoubtedly the biggest restriction for making more power. He needs more cam- plain and simple.

There is more rolling resistance since it’s an awd dyno. But yes still seems seriously low…

Man i was thinking the same thing... my b20vtec has 240hp on pumpgas

Yes finally someone else sees it

They can still do plenty to it, so it shouldn't be an issue for now.

@@fitometralla fbo ? idk man many fd2rs from where im from have 270-280whp without ITB.

That's part of the plan!

I can’t believe they didn’t AUTOMATICALLY opt for a 4-1 header with the initial plans to rev that high. That’s like basic high revving Honda engine 101. 🤦🏻‍♂️

My tri-y makes great linear power all across the board. Fantastic piece.

Right, plus they only gained like 3whp in E85.

i think that as the car doesnt have forced induction, e85 doesnt have as big of an impact?

@@chrisvera841 ya, e85 has an insane octane rating, so for FI builds ot makes it so you don't have to worry about knock as much, meaning you can run more aggressive settings

E85 doesn't do much on an NA motor. And ITB's aren't meant for huge gains in power. They are meant for better throttle response which is why he stated ITB's are heavily used for racing applications.

Aif flow exhaust isn't made yet so it's had

The K20A never raced in an ITB class of touring cars IIRC (i.e., super touring), but even with a single throttle body under Super 2000 rules, Neal Brown Engineering K20A engines make 280bhp (at the engine) on a 8500rpm rev limit. Tegiwa have a video on their ex-BTCC Integra Type R race car. 🙂 Sadly the lack of basic engine maths and engineering calculation before building this engine seems to have bit Ben!

Esslinger makes a bunch of the racing duratec motors now. 260whp/220tq would be easily accomplished in a 2.5 for less than 8k if you go 13:1 compression

My standard ap1 jap import has 247 as standard, the rest of the world got 237, I was lucky I got the best of the best.

My understanding is longer trumpets shifts the power down lower.

@@H3RSHD0G13 I think the trumpets are too large in diameter. Longer trumpets would probably help if they needed to keep the same diameter.

That's probably the issue. Not breaking it in. Might have fucked something up.

@@dingleberries360 no the rings seating after break in dos not increase hp substantially

@@need_more_lives2974 Yeah sorry guys he's right. There's something missing here.

I was wondering whether a stock port head would hold them back with cams and ITBs when they first put it on. I'm not an expert or anything, but the only advantage ITBs have is massive flow. If you're running them on a stock head, it doesn't seem worth it.

@@samnolte749 Unfortunately with all motor you have to do alot of work to the head and have non restrictive valves, and you need alot of compression. I wouldnt have even used Itbs, they just suck for street use. I would have went with minimum 13:5 compression. Most likely if I was going all in it would be 14.5:1 to 15:1. above that its very nock sensetive even on ethanol.

Honestly I wonder why he committed to ITB's. Like if he knew he was going to be throwing in a K20 and that the lack of torque would be less than ideal then why not supercharge it?

@@seagullsays5831 ITBS and High compression to hit HIGH RPM, All that's needed now should be some head tuning to flow better.

@@seagullsays5831 he's building a high rpm NA 4cyl with a usable amount of power on the street for the character and sound of it, listen to what he says in the videos

@@tonymccartney2829 Yeah I understand that, but a built K20 with ITB'S and running on E85 should not be making less power than a stock F20C.

@@seagullsays5831 Oh 100% it should. It appears they didn't pay much attention to the cams they chose (the description says peak at 8000) or the ITB runners they chose, which are too big to generate the velocity they need at those rpms. They also didn't do any head massaging. So from what I can tell, there wasn't enough homework done on the build choices, and this is the result

Don't worry, taking your time often results in more detail work being done. Also, I assume you do most of the work yourself which in and of itself it admirable to say the least. (Obviously, no offence to Ben and the boys!!) So take pride, and when the time comes to roll around like a 'baller', the enjoyment will be even greater!! ;) I recently started a new build and I recon it will take close to 4 or 5 years to finish. Most of the work will be done by me and my father. Whereas paint, cage and ECU tune will be outsourced when the time and money is there. (The build is complete with engine swap, bigger brakes and the such...) Close to Pro-Touring to say the least. Then I look around and see whole teams do a similar build in just a few months :O .....

Very little I think. No?

@@RollingRoadEFI rule of thumb is 1 hp per CFM. So a sub par valve job will absolutely hurt power and an excellent one will increase it. Especially at high rpm when the most amount of air is trying to move through the engine

@@codysmithmotorsports736 That's statistically significant. Thanks for the info.