One interesting perspective in all this is Samos. Yes he travelled with Jak and company to the future but we need to remember...Samos is actually from the future. This is why we meet young Samos. So with that in mind, we know that the idea of "Eco sages" still exists in the future. To what degree, we do not know, but most likely far more reduced in comparison to TPL, otherwise we would have seen other sages. Exploring the eco sages of the future I feel as though would be a fantastic story. Maybe they are hermits that existed outside of the Haven's walls by using eco to protect themselves from the metal heads? Maybe there was another city or tribe/village that existed outside of Haven that was protected by sages. The possibilities are limitless. The fact that Samos was born and raised in the future though makes all of this possible.

Jak has already proven itself to be a series that takes liberties when it gets to the rules of time travel (see the bootstrap paradox of Keira creating the rift rider based on the design of the exact same rift rider) so I guess anything is possible really.

Omg. I only just realised that the weapons are colour coded with the eco types.

If we use our history as an example of a possibility in the jak and daxter universe, my theory is that when the metal heads attacked, it brought all of the villages together (there was supposed to be more than 3 villages in the original jak and daxter game but they had to cut it out because of time constraint) later on in the years, the sages would teach people on how to use eco; however later on through generations less and less people would want to learn how to use eco. Would want to go on but would end up being an essay.

The other Eco Sages have never left my mind!! So excited to hear your thoughts on them, Vivi!

I believe the Eco Sages became engineers of eco tech with Mar's help and future knowledge

Most likelly eco sages became eco scholars or eco professors and work in new haven citys version of univerisity or in government research programs. Maybe it was needed a eco sage for the dark warrior program

Honestly if I or anyone else wrote a fan fiction about Jak 2 they should add in some new eco sages.

I've always wondered what happened to the sages from the first game!

Im sure there were other followers and practicers of eco in the jak 1 timeframe. I think keira just happened to be the only descendant in the main story, doesnt mean that there arent others. Plus, just stating that Mar had precursor buddies totally relates back to jak having his best friend as an ottsel. Im sure the jak-mar thing is convoluded in time. I wish that naughtydog had a chance to flesh out the time travel thing

Jak really is the Mar, named after The Mar of legend.

Honestly never gave these guys much thought until now. it does make you wonder what happened to them, and I feel something like a TV show, or even the eventual movie, could show a little bit of. Like show some of the destruction the metal heads caused after Jak & Daxter left, sorta like a timelapse leading up to their arrival in Haven City. While I feel that'd be cool, it might also eliminate some of the mystery surrounding Haven City, which wasn't revealed until half-way through the 2nd game. I don't know, I just feel expanding on certain things is always a good thing.

Amazing vid! It's so fascinating to think about such lore pieces, the mind wandering to what could have been... god I love pants

I always though Jak could become the very first Light eco sage. Seeing as he's channeled all 4 coloured eco's all at the same time in TPL. Sure he's given control over light eco much later, but the fact he does this with such ease always bugged me.

I think the sages servived and were the crucial part surviving the metal head invasion. They may have shared there knowledge with a few people to help further but not enough for new sages but enough for the people to start experimenting with new ways to use eco such as guns. Or the sages helped make guns for the people as the yellow sage has a gun. The guns may have acted as a way for people to harness eco in a sence without need for training.

That is a real head scratcher. The Sages & Power sources.

They should make a jlnew jak and daxter on what happened to the other sages and how they survived the invasion of the metal Heads

Jak and daxter content still live on on this channel!

wilcome back my man we missed you buddy 😃

Nice to see Another Jak and Daxter video

now the question remains….. if a Sage of darkness exists what about a sage of the pure light?

These theories are fun, but to really answer where Mar came from (logically) we have to remember that rift gates were time portals, not to be confused with the teleporters) the times at which these were set could have varied alot more than the 300 years we know the games span. Mar couldve been from 1000 years in the future, or 10000 in the past. A sage is a person that has capabilities of harnessing eco, and chooses to do so in the persuit of knowledge, so technically anyone can be a sage. I just like to imagine mar as the original white sage.

My personal theory is that with Eco sort of devolving into a power source for Haven & almost nothing more, the need for a sage at all is something that just wasn't relevant to modern life in the new dystopia. You can put it in barrels, power machines, and make ammo out of it, but no one's ever really needed to use eco any other way for Mar knows HOW many years. Kinda makes me wonder just how many Haven/Spargus citizens are actually capable of channeling eco, as it's a talent that probably never needed to be discovered after so many years.

I wonder why there weren't those who earned the title of Sage by Jak 2

You forgot that Samos was born in the future/present. Sage-fu was alive and well, if a little........... Underground.

It's been a while since I saw your most recent videos talking about Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, and Jak & Daxter Vivi. About Jak & Daxter, I thought it would be PlayStation's Legend of Zelda and I thought Jak & Daxter would continue forward after the original trilogy like Legend of Zelda. Oh and also, about the forgotten sages, they never even dive deep into the characters including their early years as sages. It would be interesting that we get a new Jak & Daxter game a lot like Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

For me, its pretty obvious they didnt really care about crafting a story and an overall lore for this series when making the first game. So everything is Jak 1 is just silly simple stuff, just to justify moving on throughout the world. But that changed from Jak 2 and on, and thats why they almost completely left out everything from Jak 1, never to be seen or even mentioned again, except some basic stuff like the main 4 characters and samos' hut. If they were to revisit the past in order to explore the creation of Haven, i have a feeling that some heavy retconning would come into play. So even though i personally spent years thinking how the whole change of the old world into the present dystopia of haven happened, and tried to connect the dots from jak 1 to the rest of the series, i now believe that we shouldnt take anything from jak 1 seriously.

I think when they were making the first game they intended to stay in that timeline and potentially use them further in a sequel and they just did not fit in the jak 2 we got

I want to believe the sages fought off the metal heads and they or their successors began to lay the foundation for haven city. Maybe the metal head base in Jak 2 is located in an area close to the dark eco mines of TPL? I also thought once that Jak is the time traveling mar and the events of supposed Jak 4 would have taken place in the moments between when Jak gets on the ship in 3 and miraculously appears beside daxter next scene. Jak and the precursors would work with the sages to build haven city.

I’m disappointed that they’re not making Sly Cooper 5

i always believed that the sages of old perished and Mar used his powers and technology to advance civilization just enough to be self sufficient before dipping back to his time, given how seem knew who Mar was and even called Jak “Hero” when they first formally met, on top of her er…him..? having an effect on Jak’s “Eco sense” power after the first arena match….lets not forget the oracles “watched and waited for the *True hero* to return” i mean….take that as you will

Amazing as ever

Also, a bit off topic, not sure if you heard about PlayStation adapting Gravity Rush into a film. It's Interesting considering that series is kinda considered to be a dormant IP at this point. So maybe there could be hope of the Sly Cooper movie/TV Show project still happening at some point. Especially since other dormant IP's like Twisted Metal, Jak & Daxter & Days Gone are also getting films.

Fantastic content as always!

Could be that they died off, but everything that they wrote down about Eco was found and passed down to the generations that came after. Therefore, changing the ways, Eco was originally supposed to be use, for the "new times" of the current day. Or the sage's finally became one with the Ecos they were experimenting with and became sentient beings, watching over Jak and Daxter, then later on revealing themselves to be ottsels. Secretly farting in low places.

I think I might have asked this in the comments of one of your videos before, but is there a full version of that Sly Cooper Kingdom Hearts intro theme? I'd love to get it download of that it sounds beautiful. Who composed it?

Thanks FOR MAKEING THIS VTNIVV YOUR CHANNEL OF JAK AND DAXTER AMAZING I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPEND TO THE BLUE RED AND YELLOW SAGE I WISH THEY HAD NAME THE OTHER SAGES OF ECO

What colour of eco would you add? What would it's features be?

Where did Korr come from since when the portal opened he didn't hop out.

Ooo I need to research Jak and Dax 22.3.23

I was waiting on this

Glad that you brough up Sages Would be nice to do same about Lurkers Where they come from, are there female Lurkers and how they reproduce

Dang, if only you and i vould have a conversation. I have so many theories

I feel that the simple explanation is this. Since eco is the life energies, it would seem natural to be used in capital ways. When that happened, I feel sages were no longer needed. Out with the old and in with the new? Since health pacs are innovative with just a minute cluster of green eco healing a fourth of you in jak 2, instead of a whole cluster, and the morph gun using all other eco AND dark eco for peace maker. Also containing them and FEEDING metal heads. But I like the idea as well sages being terminated. Possible when metal heads came in the picture. Which now I see, was Jak and Daxter and Co. did when in 100% PL ending. As they started to use the rift gate and open it, "Finally, the last rift gate has been opened." I feel that moment set in motion of the grand scheme of things to bring the MHs to existence to then get rid of them. Also to bring to existence Jak himself. And his history. Which can make the idea of sages being eliminated true. Neat stuff these discussion points. I feel it might be both ways. Eco being capitalized and use in every day life and understood more and more makes sages obsolete, and if the knowledge is purged, then keeping sages as a back up, but then eradicated by metal heads. It makes sense!

It's clear they did not survive, like no one in the time Jak and the rest had left had survived except those Cows or whatever and Lurkers.

At 1:09 it looks like the Ubisoft logo

No sign of Spyro 4 until next year when it comes out will the game be worth the long wait?

Nice

Vivi would you say the The Piller Men theme fits for the history of Jak when you show Mar Statue being a JOJO fan I can hear AEAEAE Piller men.

Spyro 4 if they make one will the video game be worth the long wait?

HELLO VTNVIVI have you seen that Sony has put the HD collection and Sly 4 back into the PlayStation Plus? do you think now the hopes of a possible REBOOT or Fifth understood are more concrete for the PlayStation showcase? in any case this is a strong signal to celebrate 20 years of the Sly Cooper Saga, isn't it?

I hope your. Doing ok and I wonder if sly happen to misty island

I hope the other sages will be in tje movie

lol i was just looking like 2 hours ago if you uploaded some new jack and daxter video in the latest months and nothing was there. And now.. suddenly xd

I can haz Lost Frontier remaek?

Have you played pac-man world re-pac yet at all? If so do you plan to do so?

my thoughts they need to make another game.. they can take their last of us crap and burn it for all i care..... i am very bitter at the demise of one of my favorite games.... i will never support them ever again...

First and this is a interesting topic Vivi

🎧praise our LORD 🔕 thank you Jesus Christ for being our savior 🛐