I wonder about the Model 3 if it will have this problem, though 80,000mi into ownership I find I drive it too often to find out. Adding a trickle charge lead seems like a sensible thing to do for multi-vehicle owners.

We have battery tenders like that in the US but with more robust weatherproof connectors. I usually poke them through the grille or over the top of the cowl and just tuck them in when not in use, they work great.

Interesting, did the car provide any notification through the app that the 12v battery was low. Or even that due to prolonged non use, was at risk of being low? Seems like a major oversight on Tesla’s part, especially with the terminals being so hard to reach.

Hi James, Just a thought.... Might your additional trickle charge interfere with the charge cycle provided by the car? (Once you've got things up and running again.) I have a Model 3 and no problems at all through lockdown, but I know a number of Model S drivers have had issues with their 12v batteries.

Am I right in thinking that if the car has been sat for a while on the main charger, surely it must have been cycling some charge through periodically. My understanding was that the car stops charging as the first set of cells in the battery pack hits 4.2v and then uses bleed resistors to bring the rest to equilibrium and tops up and repeats to reach the set % of charge (when set to above ~80% charge and idle for long periods). The car should be checking for cells that reach 5mV of imbalance and start charging and equalising again. Over time as the cells drop to the 5mV limit surely this would trigger power to be cycled through and in doing so realise the state of the 12V battery and trickle charge it. I’m surprised there is no warning mechanism for this from Tesla as it doesn’t seem like a huge step to consider a car not being used for long periods of time. Especially when the car is hooked up to a mains charger and has the ability to trickle charge the 12V internally.

mansplaining

@@Chrisamic Tesla is under built

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hey, at least he could get to the battery when the battery was flat. That's something. The same interlock system could have locked the frunk as well :)

Oh, we reached that point a long time ago. (Years ago a guy was trapped in his Corvette for HOURS because doors wouldn’t open due to a dead battery)

@@300DBenz it happened to me in a Vette luckily I had my phone called the mechanic who instructed me that there is a lever on the floor on the left that will pop the door. It was hot the windows were only down about 2 inches won't lie felt a little panic starting

@@300DBenz A man and his dog died of heat exhaustion when the electronic windows and doors wouldn’t open in his Corvette.

@@jwenting It did

What is this heresy. We have no need for your magickal trinkets.

But then anybody with one of these bits of metal could unlock my car, doesn't sound very secure.

Eww what is a " key " ? Tesla need a wireless card that swipe off the hood from outside.

@@jcse16 yea, and all the car has it . Put everthing electric but let the manual system too to unlock/lock the car like every car on the earth.

Keys? So 200 yrs old idea.

Underrated comment 👍😄

Time for the smug face!

Tesla owners won't look so smug when being recovered by a rusty transit. What's the equivalent of a 5 litre petrol can for an E.V.? And will the fine for running out of fuel on the motorway be the same for electric vehicles as it is for petrol/diesel vehicles?

There is an easy access to the battery through tow hook cap. If he does not know how to do it doesn't mean the car has design issue.

@@sally6457 so don't let your vehicles sit for long periods?

Nice color on that s80

Look him up on amazon prime. He has a series where he cooks and one where he assembles things. Oddly satisfying.

@@warpfrenzy it is oddly satisfying. Im hopeless at diy and all that kind of stuff but find James immensely entertaining whilst he puts things together.

"Jamesplaining"

I’ll give ya once a week. Because Jeremy and I are “allergic” to May 😁

The battery wasn't dead if the car was still able to tell you to charge the battery. That's just VW lying again.

@@kentadams4589 the main 35 kWh battery was full, 12V battery was empty

The 12v battery was nearly empty then. If it was empty the E-Golf will not power up just like the Tesla. So you were just in time..

@@hermanvansanten4408 That may be true, just that why when the smaller battery can be charged while the car is running or big battery is being charged can it not charge the smaller battery using a little bit of energy from the bigger battery? With that much amount of computing and software in the car, the car can certainly detect when the 12 V battery is almost dead and charge it up a bit. Maybe VW did just that.

@PipiX: You bought a car. Not a smartphone on wheels. What would happen to a customer w/o tools and car mechanic experience? Would they ask the dealer to pick it up? Or upload it to a service cloud?

Actually it does. My Tesla Model S warned me a couple weeks before failure. I’ve had my car sit for 5 months just leaving it plugged in. Worked fine. His 12v battery must have gone bad.

This is a James May problem only James May would have and is now fixed via software

And top gear

Such a shame they do that. We miss out on some gold material.

I assume they keep the cameras rolling and that footage just ends up on the cutting room floor. They should upload all that extra footage here, or make a new "James May Rants" youtube channel.

@@noahcalland8316 If i recall correclty, on one of the GT behinds the scesnse vids, they said they roughly have 250 hours worth of footage to compress into a hourish, that mightve been for one of the specials mind you but you get the idea .. ps spelling i know v high

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...*5 years later*...."What the eff did James say?"....

🙄😄

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Spot on

Incorrect, Tesla provides free roadside assistance for fault or 12v battery failures, they just never assume the car will be sat doing nothing for 5 months

you obviusly have no clue about tesla

@@mikeb1039 that's true because Tesla is changeing individual mobility forever. BTW the Tesla Service Center is listed as a cost center and not a provit center, therefore Tesla have no intresst in generating costs! There will be a day when you wake up and realize that the dinos have extinct

This is not unique to Tesla, almost all cars today, are over engineered.

@@Alice-D-23 oh behave. Electric cars have been used for over 100 years. New York had around 15,000 at one point in 1920.

And James would love every moment of them being gone and puttering around by himself at his own pace.

Sorry, there's simply nothing we can do to help.

They would most likely take something of importance before going off

Oi

I sort of feel like Jeremy would relish the opportunity to level aspersions on the impracticality of electric vehicles while James was an immobile captive audience. Hammond wouldn't be around because he would have crashed.

I thought that Tesla just disabled rapid charging...

@@TheRealWindlePoons I imagine they can do quite a bit more than that, especially if it were stolen.

@vinasu maaj oh settle down lol. No self respecting car theif wants to steal a tesla.

@@shornandkenny and I'm pretty sure a reputable one could manage to get in through at least one of the multiple panel gaps anyway!

Is someone can help to find which car is sitting next to this Tesla S .and is tis is the front or rear of that mysterious car ?

@@Mrwaffleandmilk I think they would care. It adds reliability. Look at Alfa Romeo when they were sold in the late 80s to early 90s. Dealerships refused to service these cars and people complained and they stopped selling them in the US untill recently. So, how is not a design flaw.

@Dan M Absolutely. I don't think @Mrwaffleandmilk understands what 'design flaw' means.

The art of manufacturing is to make it and get it out of the door quick

@Dan M a "design" flaw, not "designed" flaw... A design flaw is a flaw in the design, not a flaw that has been designed to be a flaw on purpose...

@Dan M No, it's two different things... Not the same thing said in different ways

urangatan

Yes agree .That's why my evolution 1340cc carburettor bike ( no fancy electrics or fuel inj ) is still going strong from 1998.

makes perfect sense

Normally the main battery charges the 12V battery once the system detects that it needs to be charged. Or at least that's what's happening on the Model 3 and Y. Though, the Model S is their second most oldest car, and the design is from 2012, or well. Actually older, the prototype was finished in 2009. I suspect the refresh Model S will be a lot different to the one James owns.

because it's designed by DUMB ENGINEERS!

@@germanmosca i used to be a valet and encountered this same problem. It was hilarious to have to boost the other batters that controls the door handles etc. It is charged via regen braking.

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I understand he's a wonderful love maker as well

Hello

“Hello”

@@aldozilli1293 ayo hold up 😳

Indeed

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Engineering prowess? He followed directions and charged a battery..

@@necoates77 ok. Now play out the same scenario with Clarkson.

Unfortunately he didn't need to name all the spanners. 8 out of 10

@@chrisbecke2793 smashing front bumper off of the car, yelling every 30 seconds, hammering the headlights out of frustration, sewing the roof just because why wouldn’t you and then just casually walk away for som’ drinks. Oh and blaming it on Elon via Twitter while drinking.

I think he'll fit a 'fly lead' for his Optimate

They should add a full terminal so you can jump other cars as well

@@gramathy999 The battery is only tiny as it's not designed for turning a starter motor. Probably doesn't have the cranking amps for jumping other cars.

@@DEADB33F Not on its own, but a slightly more powerful build with the battery and a DC-DC conversion circuit could certainly put out enough power. Even as is the live charging circuit should be able to bring a dead battery up enough to start an ICE by charging it for a few minutes, there are cigarette lighter jump devices intended for that purpose right now.

They should just add a little wireless charger.

@@gramathy999 I'm not great at electronics, but IMO I think this could be solved rather easily. The car knows when it's plugged in and already charges that battery during charging. Why couldn't the car continue to charge the smaller battery with the main unit as long as the car is on the charger? I can understand not wanting to have that battery draw power from the main battery while unplugged, but there is no need for that when when it has a power source. I would be willing to bet they could solve this issue with a software patch. Also, on the hardware side, they can easily add a port for a standard extension cord to be plugged into the car and have a trickle charger built in. Then locate it in an area that has a manual release in a spot that didn't require panel removal. Or maybe go retro and put it behind the license plate.

The only reason I gave a like.

Yes. Me too. Brilliant.

It was very funny.

@@DashCamSerbia same

Yeah, that was great like comment subscribe.

Storing energy in liquid form is still more efficient than batteries. Battery cars won't be as practical as internal combustion cars for another 50 years, even though the DNCCP is intentionally destroying the energy infrastructure to convince morons that batteries are currently superior to gasoline.

@@poweraccountabilityleague6877 It will never beat the internal combustion engine because of the dead weight it is forced to carry around. This car weighs 2 tonnes, half of that weight is imposed by the batteries, and people still rag on about the 100% efficiency of the electric motor. The concept itself is flawed, to "store" the charge of an electron you need to store two protons somewhere on this car, one on each side of the electric circuit.

@@Ryan_Winter And yet despite the concept being “flawed”, batteries clearly work just fine, including those required to run a a car. Where is the problem?

@@henrikoldcorn you clearly are a liberal

@@ivanvalentin3898 Can’t even watch a James May car video without some mouthbreather bringing up politics

There's not much of tesla supercharger in UK and EU anyway... Mostly owned by the government or other energy company

HA, ha !

Very under rated comment 😏 it's like a Space Quest puzzle

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Tesla is the worst OEM manufacturer in terms of “Engineering” simplicity and competence. This perfectly sums it up and you can tell this company does not have to 100+ years of experience and forethought that the other OEMs have(not saying their perfect either)

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You know your car has a flaw when a man that has driven a brick car points it out.

For example, Dacia

There’s always an element of that with cars, older the better generally though.

Same with laptops. Everything is piled on top of everything else. Which is why I prefer a nice big chunky full tower desktop computer I can get in to up to my elbows.

@@yamayama8472 but it takes 5min cuz u already know how, or are you factoring the time it takes to figure it out for the first time, or perhaps the call to tesla to ask how to get it open without the fob?

@@yamayama8472 it wouldn't have been a big deal at all if Tesla would simply install manual door and boot latches like any other normal car manufacturer

@@yamayama8472 if you work for Tesla maybe. When we first started getting Teslas at the auction we couldn't even find two Tesla reps to agree on how to turn a Model S off. One said go into the computer the other said it would turn itself off and not to worry. And it doesn't just say off on the computer you have to go into Security I think and follow prompts. Tesla seems to have a couple of ways to do 1 thing but hasn't told anybody how to do any of it.

my thoughts too, publicly broadcasting how to break into the 'froot' and grab the laptop or whatever from in there... In all honesty though, I don't think many people put stuff in there, usually 1 person in these cars and stuff just goes on the back seat lol

Lol not a security flaw per se. you have to physically bend the plastic wheel arch trim which takes considerable effort. And while all this is going on, the car is recording you in sentry mode. People break into cars everyday. If a thief wants something, they’ll find a way to get it.

Spoiler, every car has an emergency bonnet release system by pulling on cables underneath....

@@MyAirMyles but this is the BOOT - Froot - Frunk. Whatever you want to call it, likely to have valuable stuff in there.

@@waynedl99 if you can get into the bonnet of a car you can get into any boot. There are ways to unlock all cars without the key via the bonnet (without doing damage). Just buy any Haynes manual to find out how or Google it these days I guess. So frunk or not it's no less safe than any other car.

This is The Mountain King

Underrated comment. 🤣

The lawyers likely designed the car themselves.

@@robsimer9296 If they did, it would be a horse.

the sound of an ev driver have to pay £400 to have his car haled back because it ran out of juice.

Are you kidding I've had minor problems on conventional cars that have cost me a small fortune. This honestly is pain the a** but fixable in your garage.

Unfortunately I don’t Jezza is allowed within 100ft of a Tesla anymore

But watching James on his own is so interesting and fun.

He's easily the most interesting of the trio.

That is because the Hamster and the Orangutan are knobs.

They don't mean that of course. They only say it as part of the script. Each one of them has a part to play on the show. James plays the "boring" one.

In Top Gear/Grand Tour his long winded ramblings would destroy the flow and energy. When on his own the whole thing has different pacing and i do love that we get to see May in his own element.. but.. being in the company of two different kind of knobheads makes the trio. You can actually take Hammond or Clarkson away and it still works... ;) May is the irreplaceable one. Hammond and Clarkson has other qualities that makes them unique but the whole dynamic of an idiot vs Captain Slow.. requires one Captain slow and then some dude. And yes, i find it still funny when the two interrupt Mays ramblings, it just.. is the right thing to do for that show, it is comedic.

He's like a talking Harlequin novel to me.

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Hey bim, guess what Tesla has a problem 👀👀

Who’s bim?

Simple???😂😂

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Maybe you just heard me laughing

"What else is electric in here?!" "Well not the exhaust manifold!" xD

I believe he would have brought a hammer!

@@CarlosLusoooo more like a crane and wrecking ball

@@CarlosLusoooo that’s correct. A hammer

@Finnish bear not according to any survey.

@Finnish bear LoL...Mercedes is basically a knock-off of Chinese EV by BYD. Same battery, same motor, and even same LED Screens.

Porsche is the best.

@@trance9158 the range of 200 miles sounding like a washing machine and costing over 120 grand what sort of mug would pay for that s*** and that's the best they can do haha

O boy when people came in my shop with a broken ev it's PAIN to fix it but somehow I can fix it

Spot on mate!

"So, since we are not the marines, we decided to leave James behind"

@@IvoTrausch Why do they call them “marines” when they fight on land?

@@Platesmasher they are deployed into battle via amphibious landing craft and attack from the water moving onto land. Same as the parachute regiment fight on land but they are deployed via the air. It’s the method of deployment into the battlefield which gives them their names. For actual maritime warfare we have the Royal Navy and for actual airborne warfare we have the Royal Air Force.

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this is 1990 Chevy Lumina all over again

Just like Peugeot 308

Just another example of the brilliant tesla engineering.

I think he is looking like Benny Hill these days!

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*charge

Phone trends are coming into the car business

That would be a boring dystopia, to have cars made like modern phones

Yep, gotta go with NIO if you want a real EV

Kinda! you've never thing Elon makes things that go in space.

It works perfectly If you use it as directed and dont store the car on 100% SoC

@@ericpisch2732 storing at 100% soc seems like an extremely common use case (so Tesla should priorize it) and I don't see a technical limitation to the step down converter not running occasionally when the car is at full soc

@@Ryukachoo unless you hate money, you should only charge to 100% of you are about to go for a trip. Normal storage charge is under 80%. I suspect that this problem would happen anyway when the set limit is reached and the charger shuts down.

@@Ryukachoo the car and the app tell you to not charge to 100% unless your doing a long distance drive, the app gets more stroppy if you multiple 100% charge in a row. The manual tells you to store the car on 80%. I have yet to see an ev that doesn’t tell you to only use 90% soc for day to day use to increase battery life

I sort of doubt it is a video straight to his inbox though 🤣

Hopefully he doesn't get sued like Clarkson

@@MelloOwnsRyuuzaki yh but musk had fair reasons to sue him

@@ravjayakodi2746 nah. Watch the episode. It was a fair review with fair criticisms I think. The main issues he pointed out were, reliability and battery life. Tesla still has a reliability problem that's pointed out by US and Chinese regulators now. Also, as for battery, musk created a massive supercharger network since then, so I guess that one was valid after all. Racetracks eat up range in any car petrol or electric.

This is the type of constructive critique Elon loves and often quickly respond to. Faking failures in Top Gear videos isn't cool though.

Chrysler Sebring (wheel well, remove tire) Chevy HHR with electric only opening trunk hatch and battery buried under the cargo floor, requiring tunneling in, breaking off a plastic cap, reaching in with a hook or about to be injured finger to jack pull the latch cable, because the battery won't open the trunk.

Lol.. goodluck finding a ranger rover Battery

@@STho205 Don't forget the viper, lr wheel well ,smart car, passenger foot well. Olds aurora, rear passenger floor, we can get into the euro stuff.

Some jettas ha t the battery under the washer fluid tank

Chrysler Concorde is ridiculously bad. You have to remove a wheel and the wheel arch to get to it.

just constantly zooming in and out, very amateur imo

The zooming is 100% super distracting.

@@behruz1691 who cares?

That is what editing is for...

Seriously love this man

I'm under a firm belief the vehicle engineers intentionally like to make simple tasks difficult just so they can google people struggling with it and get a little enjoyment

Muti task do both

If he did hate on designers though he would be perfectly in the right, because it is the designers fault for creating such a faulty design.

It's not really that complex a problem. Motorcyclists who don't ride every day and owners of vintage cars deal with this problem all the time. They solve it with a simple battery tender that costs a few dollars. But this is unquestionably a flaw in a new, expensive, supposedly technologically advanced automobile - a flaw for which either designers or management deserve blame, depending on whether the cause was oversight or cost-cutting.

thats actually illegal lol

@@DJSerpent not in America it’s not… America has a screwy and convoluted legal system where even if it’s illegal the company can drag out any lawsuit for months till you run out of money to oppose it and you have to give up…

@@luggy9256 @Alastair Lugg regardless of what you believe it is federally illegal to put any kind of Void if Remove sticker on electronics, 1975 Magnusson Act. Read up on it. But I get what youre saying that the one with more resources win, but federally they might lose, the FTC has already given out 6 major warnings to manufacturers doing this practice.

@@DJSerpent but can they say void if you take something apart and it MIGHT have damaged something? Unfortunately even if they lose a federal case that’s a slap on the wrist for a large company, so if it goes to federal and you win, yay I guess, if it doesn’t go to federal you might go broke fighting a court case…

Presumably. It's quite possible that the engineers pointed it out, but management decided that scenario was unlikely to occur. Either way, it's absolutely inexcusable.

@@michaelnoble2432 New models all have what he recommended, an external 12V jumper cable. It's behind a little door on the front bumper. I think you are correct, most people don't own 10 cars where they might leave it sit for a month unused. The owners manual does say to power the car down if you are going on eg a trip for extended period.

@@steveseeger even having a separate 12V battery is a little odd. As an electrical engineer, it makes more sense to me to just convert the main storage battery voltage down to 12V to run auxiliary loads. Having an easy way to connect a charger to the 12V battery is just a band-aid fix, IMO.

@@michaelnoble2432 Or have it top off the little battery but you are right there is no reason why they couldn't drop the voltage down to run the other systems.

@@Meekerextreme I'm sure they drop the main battery voltage down to run 12V items when the car is actually running. Even if the step-down circuit is switched off when the car isn't running (to save power), they should switch it back on automatically when required to top-up the 12V battery.

Me too. I always dread the little jobs that i think "oh ill give it a go trying to do it myself". Nah.

I feel your pain

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

I feel the pain. And I think I gonna hold on to my Lexus for a couple of years.

I'm a techie and I'll generally at least investigate and usually also fix any fault or issue but I hate working on cars because it inevitably involves getting filthy, contortion and hand or head injury. Oh and yes, using every tool I possess because the one one I really need is some specialist proprietary one (eg, 7-pointed torx head driver - never seen one but I bet it exists)

it probably would have if clarkson had a say

bet you have never been in one and can't afford to buy one

@Dapper Canuck I was only commenting on the statement that Tesla 's were over priced and cheap ly made ...what does 'neo woke' mean?

@@brianevolved2849 must be something to do with the matrix.

@@brianevolved2849 they are cheaply made compared to other cars in that price range yes. The i-pace is a better car in every single way compared to a model X and it still manages to be cheaper

Other manufacturers didn’t bother to split developmental dollars with building an entire charging infrastructure. But Tesla did. When I think of it that way, I can forgive them for building slightly cheaper feeling cars.

He's been old for thirty years.

@@markrainford1219 yeah but now he's actually old... It's like me when I was a kid with big ears... But i grew into them... His body grew into his 60 year old mind

It’s the stubble that does. Kind of edgy oap. You’ll see him soon, talking to himself on street corners.

😆👍

He's like a pokemon reaching final evolution.

It is a pretty big oversight. If the big battery charge shuts off, it could then trickle charge the 12v with the big battery. And when the big battery gets a bit low from this, the main charge kicks back in to bring it to 100% again. Most chargers have features like this now

@@beeftec5862 the big battery cant really trickle to the smaller battery, the voltage difference is gigantic.

@@beeftec5862 This. The Prius has done this for over a decade if I recall correctly there is no reason why Tesla can't. From his explanation it should just be a software thing since the big battery is already set up to charge the 12v battery when charging.

@@odisy64 There is a DC/DC converter. James explained in the video that while the car is charging or running the big battery keeps the 12 v battery running. If there was no charging mechanism in place you'd need a new 12v battery every couple days...

@@beeftec5862 Yup, seems like a simple thing that could be done in software.

naaah clarkson would have spent the whole time telling james to shut up

Or maybe those two have tampered his car as usual.

with a hammer

There is NOTHING simple about Teslas...

@@edwardfletcher7790 simplest cars on the road

@@dommy114 In space perhaps... On the roads? Lol I'm guessing tesla is the first car you ever saw in your life.

@@MegaDobieDog I'm an engineer. I assure you, they are mechanically simple. Impressive software, sure. But simple.

Oh,it's a surprise seeing you here man. Love your vids

Because you didn't run away.

Pity you didn't.

Anyway.

@@nickturner2813 i will try to open the trunk on a Tesla now that James told me i can do so without a key.

Yup, I was looking for the white bunny... 🐇

a series?

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Series*

This is literally the first thing that madee want an electric car 'oh you could leave it for months and it will still have battery to start first time. Mental that they didn't think of this.

@@felix-bk7ne I think each Tesla has about a 50W constant drain, depending upon gadget setup. It adds up, 200,000 cars at 50W each = 10MW. Very 'green'...

Suicidal maniacs?

Its the same concept. If the electrics die, you have to go on the outside and pry open the booster arches and pull to levers to open the bonnet

The reason for no visible latches and door handles is aerodynamics. Running a lithium battery for computer doesn’t make sense because more frequent charge cycles

NASA

If going to space is a constant It's not like we have much of a choice except elons rockets

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"the mains are bypassed like a Christmas tree"

My first thought as well.

Synthehol. "Synthetic scotch, synthetic humans"

I would have preferred the Benny Hill theme (Yakkity Sax)

Very irritating

If this was four years ago the music would have triggered irrational bouts of anxiety. [The Witness (video game)]

Or use the car like you supposed to then you don’t need to

Looks better than the alpine F1 car tbh

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Exactly. Why have a system where you have to charge 2 batteries independently?

I am finding it difficult to believe that tesla put such a dump system on their car.

It already has an inverter too since it will charge the 12v when on. So you’re idea to just periodically cycle and top or a trickle type mode, seems fair. Having the main battery flat would be better than the 12v. But also, it’s plugged in, and the car has an inverter, so why can’t it just trickle charge the 12v and leave the main battery at end of cycle? It’s seems like a very small bit of electrical or programming work 🤷‍♂️. 💯 deserves a rant.

@@tendaitambanemoto8178 Lets hope his Big F#####g Rockets don't suffer the same fate.

@@xzox 😆 😆 🤣 😂 😹 it wont he is a genius

Madness reigns, in the hall of the mountain king.